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Historical Source: ZIL files for all of Infocom's games.

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  Historical Source: ZIL files for all of Infocom's games. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-04-17 00:14 +0000
    Re: Historical Source: ZIL files for all of Infocom's games. Pabst Blue Ribbon <pabst@blue.ribbon> - 2019-04-17 07:36 +0000
      Re: Historical Source: ZIL files for all of Infocom's games. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-04-17 18:44 +0000
        Re: Historical Source: ZIL files for all of Infocom's games. Pabst Blue Ribbon <pabst@blue.ribbon> - 2019-04-18 10:12 +0000
          Re: Historical Source: ZIL files for all of Infocom's games. Doug McIntyre <merlyn@dork.geeks.org> - 2019-04-18 07:34 -0500
            Re: Historical Source: ZIL files for all of Infocom's games. Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-04-18 13:26 +0000
              Re: Historical Source: ZIL files for all of Infocom's games. ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2019-04-18 17:14 -0500
            Re: Historical Source: ZIL files for all of Infocom's games. Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2019-04-18 23:12 +0000
          Re: Historical Source: ZIL files for all of Infocom's games. adam@fsf.net (Adam Thornton) - 2019-04-19 18:48 +0000

#17831 — Historical Source: ZIL files for all of Infocom's games.

ZIL is the Zork Implementation Language that Infocom created to write
their games. It compiles down to Z-code for a virtual machine (that
pre-dates Java by decades). Then interpreters were written for various
platforms which all run the same Z-code. People are still writing Z-code
interpreters and writing new text adventures that are compiled into
Z-code, but mostly they are using Inform, a new and different language.

Infocom's original source has apparently been circulating quietly for a
while, but now it has been released to the world by the guy behind
textfiles.org.

https://github.com/historicalsource

https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/1118005126457888768

   So, Infocom source code is now uploaded to Github. Most people don't
   speak or want to speak the language it's written in, ZIL (Zork
   Implementation Language). You can browse through it and kind of suss
   out what's being done when and the choices made over the course of
   time.

   In cases where the source code had multiple revisions, and I don't
   know the story of what revisions came when and came why, I did a
   reasonable job of layering them out (this came before that, that came
   after that) and doing multiple "check-ins" of the code so you can see
   diffs.

   Often, there are cases that some games were built up from a previous
   game, allowing modification of the macros and structures and then
   making them work in the new game. For example, an NPC partygoer in
   one game was a thief in a previous one. Dungeons become stores, etc.

   There are infinite things to learn here and I hope people learn from
   it. I think if a reasonably informed person comes through and gives
   it a real documentary treatment we will really understand just how
   brilliant those Infocom implementors were. And how space-age
   Z-Machine is.

   The compiler, as far as absolutely anybody can tell, is lost. It is
   not possible to turn this source code into a functioning game
   anymore, and certainly not by using any tools that exist in any
   chain, anywhere. This is therefore less "code" and more "text
   artifact".

[A note on this point: the original compiler is lost, but a clone has
been created. More below.]

   If this is taken away or lost, then really, are you to trust that any
   company, ANY of them, will take care of their history, and not just
   slam down any attempt to look at the historical work done and
   understand, educate, and promote research? Can you really trust that?

   What got me thinking about this was losing Stu Galley last year,
   creator of so many great games and who thought Infocom was the dream
   job of a lifetime. We got along so well during GET LAMP; I loved that
   guy. He was a gem.

   Whatever happens next, it makes me happy to know people got to see
   his craft, and the craft and thinking of so many other of these
   artists in interactive fiction, and understand on a new level what
   they were doing and how they went about it. I dedicate this to them.

   Happy reading.

As for compiling:

https://twitter.com/HappyMacXL/status/1118189168029503490
   [...]  In the ZIL group we have actually managed to compile using
   ZILF...

   https://bitbucket.org/jmcgrew/zilf/wiki/Home

Play the compiled program with an interpreter like "frotz".

Elijah
------
the "feelies" that came with the games remain rare collector's items

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#17835

Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> ZIL is the Zork Implementation Language that Infocom created to write
> their games. It compiles down to Z-code for a virtual machine (that
> pre-dates Java by decades). Then interpreters were written for various
> platforms which all run the same Z-code. People are still writing Z-code
> interpreters and writing new text adventures that are compiled into
> Z-code, but mostly they are using Inform, a new and different language.
> 
> Infocom's original source has apparently been circulating quietly for a
> while, but now it has been released to the world by the guy behind
> textfiles.org.
> 
> https://github.com/historicalsource
> 
> https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/1118005126457888768
> 
>    So, Infocom source code is now uploaded to Github. Most people don't
>    speak or want to speak the language it's written in, ZIL (Zork
>    Implementation Language). You can browse through it and kind of suss
>    out what's being done when and the choices made over the course of
>    time.
> 
>    In cases where the source code had multiple revisions, and I don't
>    know the story of what revisions came when and came why, I did a
>    reasonable job of layering them out (this came before that, that came
>    after that) and doing multiple "check-ins" of the code so you can see
>    diffs.
> 
>    Often, there are cases that some games were built up from a previous
>    game, allowing modification of the macros and structures and then
>    making them work in the new game. For example, an NPC partygoer in
>    one game was a thief in a previous one. Dungeons become stores, etc.
> 
>    There are infinite things to learn here and I hope people learn from
>    it. I think if a reasonably informed person comes through and gives
>    it a real documentary treatment we will really understand just how
>    brilliant those Infocom implementors were. And how space-age
>    Z-Machine is.
> 
>    The compiler, as far as absolutely anybody can tell, is lost. It is
>    not possible to turn this source code into a functioning game
>    anymore, and certainly not by using any tools that exist in any
>    chain, anywhere. This is therefore less "code" and more "text
>    artifact".
> 
> [A note on this point: the original compiler is lost, but a clone has
> been created. More below.]
> 
>    If this is taken away or lost, then really, are you to trust that any
>    company, ANY of them, will take care of their history, and not just
>    slam down any attempt to look at the historical work done and
>    understand, educate, and promote research? Can you really trust that?
> 
>    What got me thinking about this was losing Stu Galley last year,
>    creator of so many great games and who thought Infocom was the dream
>    job of a lifetime. We got along so well during GET LAMP; I loved that
>    guy. He was a gem.
> 
>    Whatever happens next, it makes me happy to know people got to see
>    his craft, and the craft and thinking of so many other of these
>    artists in interactive fiction, and understand on a new level what
>    they were doing and how they went about it. I dedicate this to them.
> 
>    Happy reading.
> 
> As for compiling:
> 
> https://twitter.com/HappyMacXL/status/1118189168029503490
>    [...]  In the ZIL group we have actually managed to compile using
>    ZILF...
> 
>    https://bitbucket.org/jmcgrew/zilf/wiki/Home
> 
> Play the compiled program with an interpreter like "frotz".
> 
> Elijah
> ------
> the "feelies" that came with the games remain rare collector's items
> 

This probably should be reposted to rec.arts.int-fiction and
rec.games.int-fiction.

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#17839

In rec.arts.int-fiction, Pabst Blue Ribbon  <pabst@blue.ribbon> wrote:

.ribbon isn't a real TLD, but .blue is, if you wanted to register that.

> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>> ZIL is the Zork Implementation Language that Infocom created to write
...
> This probably should be reposted to rec.arts.int-fiction and
> rec.games.int-fiction.

I think all the users of those groups have wholesale moved their
discussion off of Usenet. https://intfiction.org/ and the like.

The crosspost omission was deliberate.
Followups directed back to comp.misc.

Elijah
------
doesn't have any .blue domains but has a .red one

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#17842

Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:

> I think all the users of those groups have wholesale moved their
> discussion off of Usenet. https://intfiction.org/ and the like.

Mostly. There are still some people showing up now and then.

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#17843

Pabst Blue Ribbon <pabst@blue.ribbon> writes:
>Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:

>> I think all the users of those groups have wholesale moved their
>> discussion off of Usenet. https://intfiction.org/ and the like.

>Mostly. There are still some people showing up now and then.


I for one hate web boards, and will forgo them for what little content
comes over usenet (and RSS and the like).


-- 
Doug McIntyre
doug@themcintyres.us

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#17844

On 2019-04-18, Doug McIntyre <merlyn@dork.geeks.org> wrote:
> Pabst Blue Ribbon <pabst@blue.ribbon> writes:
>>Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>
>>> I think all the users of those groups have wholesale moved their
>>> discussion off of Usenet. https://intfiction.org/ and the like.
>
>>Mostly. There are still some people showing up now and then.
>
>
> I for one hate web boards, and will forgo them for what little content
> comes over usenet (and RSS and the like).

*applause*


-- 
Today is Pungenday, the 35th day of Discord in the YOLD 3185
       Comes in bells, your servant, don't forsake him 

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#17847

Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2019-04-18, Doug McIntyre <merlyn@dork.geeks.org> wrote:
> > Pabst Blue Ribbon <pabst@blue.ribbon> writes:
> >>Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
> >
> >>> I think all the users of those groups have wholesale moved their
> >>> discussion off of Usenet. https://intfiction.org/ and the like.
> >
> >>Mostly. There are still some people showing up now and then.
> >
> >
> > I for one hate web boards, and will forgo them for what little content
> > comes over usenet (and RSS and the like).

> *applause*

/me applauds too.
-- 
Quote of the Week: "Is this stuff any good for ants?" "No, it kills them." --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org /
 / /\ /\ \ http://antfarm.ma.cx. Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /
    ( )

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#17849

In comp.misc, Doug McIntyre  <merlyn@dork.geeks.org> wrote:
> Pabst Blue Ribbon <pabst@blue.ribbon> writes:
>> Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>>> I think all the users of those groups have wholesale moved their
>>> discussion off of Usenet. https://intfiction.org/ and the like.
>> Mostly. There are still some people showing up now and then.

You, Pabst, still managed to find my post even though I didn't put it
the (IMHO) dead int-fiction groups.

> I for one hate web boards, and will forgo them for what little content
> comes over usenet (and RSS and the like).

I believe https://intfiction.org/ supports RSS, at least at the category
level it does advertise it:

<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="Latest posts"
  href="https://intfiction.org/posts.rss" />
<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="Latest topics"
  href="https://intfiction.org/latest.rss" />
<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" 
  title="RSS feed of topics in the &#39;General&#39; category"
  href="https://intfiction.org/c/general.rss" />

And since it is Discourse(.org) based, it should work as a mailing list,
too, after initial sign-up.

I don't know the specifics, but the move off Usenet was prompted by a
persistent troll or trolls.

Elijah
------
wouldn't be the first time a group died that way

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#17853

In article <q4YtE.104841$lO2.42222@fx30.iad>,
Pabst Blue Ribbon  <pabst@blue.ribbon> wrote:
>Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> wrote:
>
>> I think all the users of those groups have wholesale moved their
>> discussion off of Usenet. https://intfiction.org/ and the like.
>
>Mostly. There are still some people showing up now and then.

Agreed.  Not sure what harm you think the crosspost does.  I don't read
comp.misc, and do read raif and rgif.

Adam

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