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German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails

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  German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-12 12:21 +0000
    Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-09-12 12:59 +0000
      Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-12 16:58 +0200
        Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Max Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy> - 2014-09-14 20:44 +0000
          Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2014-09-15 11:49 +0000
            Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-09-15 13:57 +0100
              Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2014-09-16 01:45 +0000
                Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-09-16 08:53 +0100
              Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Max Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy> - 2014-10-24 16:03 +0000
                Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-10-24 18:19 +0100
                  Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Max Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy> - 2014-10-24 18:49 +0000
          Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-15 14:25 +0200
            Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-09-15 16:12 +0100
              Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-15 22:05 +0200
                Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-09-15 22:26 +0100
                  Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-16 01:38 +0200
                Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-09-16 21:28 +0000
                  Re: German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-17 12:57 +0200

#4844 — German court requires Google to stop ignoring customer emails

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2605999/legal/german-court-requires-google-to-stop-ignoring-customer-emails.html

   A German court has required Google to stop ignoring customer emails and
   start offering a way to communicate with the company.

   The order was given by the Berlin Regional Court in a case brought by
   the Federation of German Consumer Organizations (VZBV), which published
   the ruling on its website on Thursday.

   Google users who email the address "support-de@google.com" receive an
   automatic reply notifying the emailer that Google will neither read nor
   reply due to the large number of requests sent to the address. After
   that sentence, the automatic reply directs Google users to various
   online self-help guides and contact forms.

   This form of communication is incompatible with the German Telemedia
   Act, which says that companies must provide a way to ensure fast
   electronic communications with them, the VZBV had argued. The
   organization described Google's support address as a black box in which
   messages disappear into a void. A German court has required Google to
   stop ignoring customer emails and start offering a way to communicate
   with the company.

   The order was given by the Berlin Regional Court in a case brought by
   the Federation of German Consumer Organizations (VZBV), which published
   the ruling on its website on Thursday.

   Google users who email the address "support-de@google.com" receive an
   automatic reply notifying the emailer that Google will neither read nor
   reply due to the large number of requests sent to the address. After
   that sentence, the automatic reply directs Google users to various
   online self-help guides and contact forms.

   This form of communication is incompatible with the German Telemedia
   Act, which says that companies must provide a way to ensure fast
   electronic communications with them, the VZBV had argued. The
   organization described Google's support address as a black box in which
   messages disappear into a void.

   ...

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#4846

On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:21:04 +0000 (UTC)
Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:

>    A German court has required Google to stop ignoring customer emails and
>    start offering a way to communicate with the company.
> 
>    Google users who email the address "support-de@google.com" receive an
>    automatic reply notifying the emailer that Google will neither read nor
>    reply due to the large number of requests sent to the address. After
>    that sentence, the automatic reply directs Google users to various
>    online self-help guides and contact forms.
> 
>    This form of communication is incompatible with the German Telemedia
>    Act, which says that companies must provide a way to ensure fast
>    electronic communications with them, the VZBV had argued. The
>    organization described Google's support address as a black box in which
>    messages disappear into a void. A German court has required Google to
>    stop ignoring customer emails and start offering a way to communicate
>    with the company.

Wow, that's spectacular.  As always, I'm so impressed by the German
government's accept-no-bullshit attitude to things.  I tried reaching
Google about an issue concerning Google Groups (I wanted to know where
they're feeding their newsgroups from so I could get the dictator.*
hierarchy indexed too).  The English version works the same - the
"contact us" thing takes you to a bunch of FAQs and basically doesn't
give you an easy way to contact them.  So I gave up.  Google Groups
sucks anyway.

I wish the American government had the same approach to regulation.
Isn't that what government regulation is supposed to do?

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#4850

On 2014-09-12, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:21:04 +0000 (UTC)
> Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>>    A German court has required Google to stop ignoring customer emails and
>>    start offering a way to communicate with the company.

<snip>

> Wow, that's spectacular.  As always, I'm so impressed by the German
> government's accept-no-bullshit attitude to things.

I find this very refreshing too.

>  I tried reaching Google about an issue concerning Google Groups (I
>  wanted to know where they're feeding their newsgroups from so I could
>  get the dictator.* hierarchy indexed too).  The English version works
>  the same - the "contact us" thing takes you to a bunch of FAQs and
>  basically doesn't give you an easy way to contact them.  So I gave up. 
>  Google Groups sucks anyway.

A couple or so weeks ago I stumbled into a search result I was interested
in which was a Usenet post from 2004.  It was somewhat surprisingly
presented in plain text.

Then a few days later I came across this:

"Google is attempting to shunt users away from old browsers by
intentionally serving up a stale version of the ad giant's search homepage
to those holdouts."

<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/08/31/google_search_browser_support/>

Yes, I had been searching with NoScript.  The wild thought occurred to me
that maybe, just maybe, if I attacked Google Groups with an out of date
browser I might get back the interface that was useable.

No such luck, unfortunately :-(

> I wish the American government had the same approach to regulation.
> Isn't that what government regulation is supposed to do?

I've come to the conclusion that unless our respective governments start
protecting us with laws, the ISPs, telcos et al have every intention of
screwing us.  It seems to be already at the point where you have to sue
the blighters, or at least get a solicitor to write a nastygram before
they will take notice of complaints.

-- 
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know
we don't                                           -- Bjarne Stroustrup

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#4897

On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 16:58:26 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:

>> Wow, that's spectacular.  As always, I'm so impressed by the German
>> government's accept-no-bullshit attitude to things.
> 
> I find this very refreshing too.

As a citizen of Germany I am surprised of of this perception. On the 
other hand there are probably even more dystopian governments around.

But consider this, while our government bugs Google about not having 
customer service--which admittedly is a big thing for Krauts--it is 
*completely*--and that's an understatement--ignoring the NSA indictments 
that are so glaringly obvious. Its a disgusting shot in back of the 
German citizens.

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#4906

On 2014-09-14, Max Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy> wrote:
> But consider this, while our government bugs Google about not having 
> customer service--which admittedly is a big thing for Krauts--it is 
> *completely*--and that's an understatement--ignoring the NSA indictments 
> that are so glaringly obvious. Its a disgusting shot in back of the 
> German citizens.

Not to mention the German government's propensity for attempting to
bring about world order every once in a while. Not to worry, though,
we taught them a lession in 1918 and they've hardly bothered us since
then.

All governments are little more than cadres of armed thugs. "Necessary evil"
is the best you'll ever get from that lot, and it goes downhill rapidly from
there.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

  NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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#4907

In article <20140915074556@news.eternal-september.org>, Roger Blake
<rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:

> On 2014-09-14, Max Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy> wrote:
> > But consider this, while our government bugs Google about not having 
> > customer service--which admittedly is a big thing for Krauts--it is 
> > *completely*--and that's an understatement--ignoring the NSA indictments 
> > that are so glaringly obvious. Its a disgusting shot in back of the 
> > German citizens.
> 
> Not to mention the German government's propensity for attempting to
> bring about world order every once in a while. Not to worry, though,
> we taught them a lession in 1918 and they've hardly bothered us since
> then.
> 
> All governments are little more than cadres of armed thugs. "Necessary evil"
> is the best you'll ever get from that lot, and it goes downhill rapidly from
> there.

Better than anarchy, though. My standard questions to anarchists are:
"where will you buy loo paper?" and "What will you do when the sewage
system stops working?"

-- 
Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on
a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web,
when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another
computer, another word processor, or another network. -- Tim Berners-Lee

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#4920

On 2014-09-15, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> Better than anarchy, though. My standard questions to anarchists are:
> "where will you buy loo paper?" and "What will you do when the sewage
> system stops working?"

I go back and forth on whether that is the case or not. The State tends
to leave a lot of battered and bloody corpses in its wake. Though it is
tough to imagine how some types of services might be delivered without it.
Government is definitely an extremely dangerous institution that has proven
notoriously difficult to contain and control.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

  NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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#4923

In article <20140915213917@news.eternal-september.org>, Roger Blake
<rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:

> On 2014-09-15, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> > Better than anarchy, though. My standard questions to anarchists are:
> > "where will you buy loo paper?" and "What will you do when the sewage
> > system stops working?"
> 
> I go back and forth on whether that is the case or not. The State tends
> to leave a lot of battered and bloody corpses in its wake. Though it is
> tough to imagine how some types of services might be delivered without it.

Quite so.

> Government is definitely an extremely dangerous institution that has proven
> notoriously difficult to contain and control.

Still better than the alternative, as no doubt the citizens of Northern
Nigeria, Somalia, Libya, and Northern Iraq would agree.

-- 
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without 
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens

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#5424

On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 13:57:52 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

> In article <20140915074556@news.eternal-september.org>, Roger Blake
> <rogblake@iname.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 2014-09-14, Max Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy> wrote:
>> > But consider this, while our government bugs Google about not having
>> > customer service--which admittedly is a big thing for Krauts--it is
>> > *completely*--and that's an understatement--ignoring the NSA
>> > indictments that are so glaringly obvious. Its a disgusting shot in
>> > back of the German citizens.
>> 
>> Not to mention the German government's propensity for attempting to
>> bring about world order every once in a while. Not to worry, though,
>> we taught them a lession in 1918 and they've hardly bothered us since
>> then.
>> 
>> All governments are little more than cadres of armed thugs. "Necessary
>> evil"
>> is the best you'll ever get from that lot, and it goes downhill rapidly
>> from there.
> 
> Better than anarchy, though. My standard questions to anarchists are:
> "where will you buy loo paper?" and "What will you do when the sewage
> system stops working?"

Not that I have any vestment in the state-debate but you have clearly no 
idea what "anarchism" is. Please read a book before spewing uninformed 
nonsense.

What you describe is a wild west scenario, anarchism is a reasonably well 
defined governance system based on decentralization and consensus. Your 
interpolation of "where will you buy loo paper?" is comically unrelated 
to anarchism. Its like saying capitalism is bad because of all the child 
molesters. While nobody like the latter they have nothing to do with 
capitalism.

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#5426

In article <544a783a$0$28953$c3e8da3$e5d14f71@news.astraweb.com>, Max
Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy> wrote:

> What you describe is a wild west scenario, anarchism is a reasonably well 
> defined governance system based on decentralization and consensus.

There never has been and never will be consensus. Not amongst humans,
anyway.

-- 
"Please stop telling us what you feel. Please stop telling us what your 
intuition is. Your intuitive feelings are of no interest whatsoever, 
and nor are mine. I don't give a bugger what you feel, or what I feel. 
I want to know what the evidence shows."             -- Richard Dawkins

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#5427

On Fri, 24 Oct 2014 18:19:42 +0100, Tim Streater wrote:

> In article <544a783a$0$28953$c3e8da3$e5d14f71@news.astraweb.com>, Max
> Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy> wrote:
> 
>> What you describe is a wild west scenario, anarchism is a reasonably
>> well defined governance system based on decentralization and consensus.
> 
> There never has been and never will be consensus. Not amongst humans,
> anyway.

That is, again, completely beside the point (ignoring the mandatory "how 
do you know?"). If you introduce an already defined concept to a 
discussion please look it up before hand. I can't be arsed to set shit 
straight for everyone. Let's keep some intellectual standards please.

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#4908

On 2014-09-14, Max Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 16:58:26 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:
>
>>> Wow, that's spectacular.  As always, I'm so impressed by the German
>>> government's accept-no-bullshit attitude to things.
>> 
>> I find this very refreshing too.
>
> As a citizen of Germany I am surprised of of this perception. On the 
> other hand there are probably even more dystopian governments around.
>
> But consider this, while our government bugs Google about not having 
> customer service--which admittedly is a big thing for Krauts--it is 
> *completely*--and that's an understatement--ignoring the NSA indictments 
> that are so glaringly obvious. Its a disgusting shot in back of the 
> German citizens.

What this demonstrates to me is our tendency to think "the grass is
greener" elsewhere.  In other words when we see a foreign government doing
something we wish our own government would do, we applaud it.

(I'm a UK citizen, er subject, and that definitely colours my perception
of what the UK or other governments do.)

-- 
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know
we don't                                           -- Bjarne Stroustrup

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#4911

In article <ce2jeb-b15.ln1@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
<nospam@sture.ch> wrote:

> (I'm a UK citizen, er subject, and that definitely colours my perception
> of what the UK or other governments do.)

No, you're a citizen, like it says in your passport.

-- 
"Once you adopt the unix paradigm, the variants cease to be a problem - you
bitch, of course, but that's because bitching is fun, unlike M$ OS's, where 
bitching is required to keep your head from exploding." - S Stremler in afc

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#4913

On 2014-09-15, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <ce2jeb-b15.ln1@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
><nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>
>> (I'm a UK citizen, er subject, and that definitely colours my perception
>> of what the UK or other governments do.)
>
> No, you're a citizen, like it says in your passport.

Oh shite.  I'm now wondering where I got the misconception from...

-- 
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know
we don't                                           -- Bjarne Stroustrup

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#4916

In article <7etjeb-n5u.ln1@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
<nospam@sture.ch> wrote:

> On 2014-09-15, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> > In article <ce2jeb-b15.ln1@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
> ><nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
> >
> >> (I'm a UK citizen, er subject, and that definitely colours my perception
> >> of what the UK or other governments do.)
> >
> > No, you're a citizen, like it says in your passport.
> 
> Oh shite.  I'm now wondering where I got the misconception from...

It used to say subject. Looking at my second passport issued June 1976,
it says "British subject: Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies".
1986 and later: "British citizen".

I have a feeling that my first one, issued 1966, may just have said
"British subject" but I can't find that one now.

-- 
"Once you adopt the unix paradigm, the variants cease to be a problem - you
bitch, of course, but that's because bitching is fun, unlike M$ OS's, where 
bitching is required to keep your head from exploding." - S Stremler in afc

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#4919

On 2014-09-15, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <7etjeb-n5u.ln1@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
><nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>
>> On 2014-09-15, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> > In article <ce2jeb-b15.ln1@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
>> ><nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>> >
>> >> (I'm a UK citizen, er subject, and that definitely colours my perception
>> >> of what the UK or other governments do.)
>> >
>> > No, you're a citizen, like it says in your passport.
>> 
>> Oh shite.  I'm now wondering where I got the misconception from...
>
> It used to say subject. Looking at my second passport issued June 1976,
> it says "British subject: Citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies".
> 1986 and later: "British citizen".

Ah. I got my second passport in 1982, so after the British Nationality Act
1981 but before it came into force on 1st January 1983.
(source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_subject#After_1983 )

I'm pretty sure that passport had the "Right of abode in the UK" clause
which was introduced with that act, though.

> I have a feeling that my first one, issued 1966, may just have said
> "British subject" but I can't find that one now.


-- 
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know
we don't                                           -- Bjarne Stroustrup

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#4938

On 2014-09-15, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
> On 2014-09-15, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> In article <ce2jeb-b15.ln1@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
>><nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>>
>>> (I'm a UK citizen, er subject, and that definitely colours my perception
>>> of what the UK or other governments do.)
>>
>> No, you're a citizen, like it says in your passport.
>
> Oh shite.  I'm now wondering where I got the misconception from...

Some dumb-shit Yank on Usenet bleating on about how free he is, I expect.


-- 
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 40th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3180
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere,
diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies”. Groucho Marx.

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#4945

On 2014-09-16, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2014-09-15, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>> On 2014-09-15, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>>> In article <ce2jeb-b15.ln1@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
>>><nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>>>
>>>> (I'm a UK citizen, er subject, and that definitely colours my perception
>>>> of what the UK or other governments do.)
>>>
>>> No, you're a citizen, like it says in your passport.
>>
>> Oh shite.  I'm now wondering where I got the misconception from...
>
> Some dumb-shit Yank on Usenet bleating on about how free he is, I expect.

Methinks the truth is more a case of a whinging Pom on a UK forum I used to
read. :-)

-- 
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know
we don't                                           -- Bjarne Stroustrup

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