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Damned BIOS

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  Damned BIOS Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-02 15:05 +1000
    Re: Damned BIOS Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 08:06 +0000
      Re: Damned BIOS Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-02 19:38 +1000
        Re: Damned BIOS Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 12:06 +0000
          Re: Damned BIOS Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-03 12:15 +1000
        Re: Damned BIOS Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-09-02 15:39 +0100
          Re: Damned BIOS Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-03 12:22 +1000
            Re: Damned BIOS Scion <a.b@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-10 10:16 +0000
              Re: Damned BIOS Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-14 15:27 +1000
                Re: Damned BIOS Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-09-14 14:25 +0100
      Re: Damned BIOS RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-09-02 18:19 +0000
        Re: Damned BIOS polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> - 2014-09-02 19:52 +0100
          Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-02 19:41 +0000
            Re: Damned BIOS polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> - 2014-09-02 21:12 +0100
              Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-02 21:00 +0000
                Re: Damned BIOS polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> - 2014-09-02 22:08 +0100
                Re: Damned BIOS Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 21:14 +0000
                Re: Damned BIOS Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-09-02 23:10 -0600
                  Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-03 05:58 +0000
                Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-14 08:26 +0200
        Re: Damned BIOS Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 21:09 +0000
    Re: Damned BIOS Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-09-02 14:29 +0100
      Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-02 16:35 +0200
        Re: Damned BIOS Scion <a.b@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-10 10:18 +0000
          Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-10 13:46 +0200
            Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-10 13:00 +0000
              Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-10 19:28 +0200
                Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-10 19:11 +0000
                  Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-14 08:44 +0200
                    Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-14 07:17 +0000
                Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-14 08:33 +0200
          Re: Damned BIOS Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-09-10 13:53 +0100
            Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-14 08:30 +0200

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#4673

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:
> On 2014-09-02, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> > Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> >> When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say
> >> so.  I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then
> >> see if you can find some other OS lying around and boot that
> >> instead."
> >
> > Keep in mind, the code about which you complain is from the same
> > authors who created this error message from years ago:
> >
> >   Keyboard not found - press F1 key to continue
> >
> > http://www.jobless-jack.com/2013/07/da-fuck-o-keyboard-not-found.html
> >
> > Such stupidity does not inspire confidence in their ability to
> > determine even a mildly good way to do things,

> I can understand why people hate this error message, but to me it always
> made sense: "There is apparently no keyboard present, which is bad.  So
> plug one in, jackass, and prove it by pressing F1 when you're done."

Except that for the early BIOS'es that exhibited this error, hot
plugging in a keyboard after the fact did not work, because the BIOS
was stuck in the "wait for key" loop, and never went back and
initialized the keyboard hardware if a keyboard got plugged in later.

> That is a reasonable sequence for a desktop computer that ought to
> have a keyboard attached (and stupid if you're running a headless
> server, in which case you're probably smart enough to disable that
> check in the BIOS anyway).

The same MB's that had this message usually had no "disable keyboard
check" option in their setup routines.  So a "headless" server needed a
keyboard attached or else it wouldn't boot at all.

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#4644

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 15:05:16 +1000, Sylvia Else
<sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

>When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say so. 
>I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then see if you 
>can find some other OS lying around and boot that instead."
>

 Are we to assume you're having a rant at the confusing and
unpredictable ways the various MoBo manufacturers' choose to handle
the boot options in regard to usb connected devices? :-)

 If so, welcome to the club! :-(
-- 
J B Good

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#4647

On 2014-09-02, Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 15:05:16 +1000, Sylvia Else
><sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>
>>When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say so. 
>>I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then see if you 
>>can find some other OS lying around and boot that instead."
>>
>
>  Are we to assume you're having a rant at the confusing and
> unpredictable ways the various MoBo manufacturers' choose to handle
> the boot options in regard to usb connected devices? :-)
>
>  If so, welcome to the club! :-(

My HP MicroServer was driving me nuts with this at one point.  I finally
worked out that every single time I plugged in a new USB disk it would
assume that I wanted to boot from that rather than the internal disk which
is its normal boot device.   On the next boot I would have to go into the
BIOS and tell it otherwise.

I think I've managed to persuade it to stop doing that now.

-- 
If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail
If you own a jackhammer, every problem looks like hours of fun

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#4788

Paul Sture put finger to keyboard:

> On 2014-09-02, Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 15:05:16 +1000, Sylvia Else
>><sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>
>>>When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say
>>>so.
>>>I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then see if
>>>you can find some other OS lying around and boot that instead."
>>>
>>>
>>  Are we to assume you're having a rant at the confusing and
>> unpredictable ways the various MoBo manufacturers' choose to handle the
>> boot options in regard to usb connected devices? :-)
>>
>>  If so, welcome to the club! :-(
> 
> My HP MicroServer was driving me nuts with this at one point.  I finally
> worked out that every single time I plugged in a new USB disk it would
> assume that I wanted to boot from that rather than the internal disk
> which is its normal boot device.   On the next boot I would have to go
> into the BIOS and tell it otherwise.
> 
> I think I've managed to persuade it to stop doing that now.

Reading your sig, I can guess how ;-)

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#4790

On 2014-09-10, Scion <a.b@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Paul Sture put finger to keyboard:
>
>> On 2014-09-02, Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 15:05:16 +1000, Sylvia Else
>>><sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>>
>>>>When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say
>>>>so.
>>>>I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then see if
>>>>you can find some other OS lying around and boot that instead."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>  Are we to assume you're having a rant at the confusing and
>>> unpredictable ways the various MoBo manufacturers' choose to handle the
>>> boot options in regard to usb connected devices? :-)
>>>
>>>  If so, welcome to the club! :-(
>> 
>> My HP MicroServer was driving me nuts with this at one point.  I finally
>> worked out that every single time I plugged in a new USB disk it would
>> assume that I wanted to boot from that rather than the internal disk
>> which is its normal boot device.   On the next boot I would have to go
>> into the BIOS and tell it otherwise.
>> 
>> I think I've managed to persuade it to stop doing that now.
>
> Reading your sig, I can guess how ;-)

Oh, this sig:
If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail
If you own a jackhammer, every problem looks like hours of fun

Not quite as bad as that :-)

The real problem as I recall is that the MicroServer decides to boot
from the newly inserted USB disk when there isn't a boot sector on it.
Startup then hangs.  It makes this system hard to use as headless.

HP's way of persuading me to buy the remote console widget I suppose.
FWIW I've come to the conclusion that the HP MicroServers are marketed
with the printer marketing model of initial price cheap, we'll get
you on the accessories.

-- 
So excited for the Apple Watch. For centuries, we’ve checked the time
by looking at our phones. Having it on your wrist? Genius.
                                                   -- Ellen DeGeneres

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#4792

On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:46:32 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:

> The real problem as I recall is that the MicroServer decides to boot
> from the newly inserted USB disk when there isn't a boot sector on it.
> Startup then hangs.  It makes this system hard to use as headless.

I have several microservers, and had that problem once. I set the "USB 
Device Boot Priority" to "Low" in the BIOS, and the problem went away.
-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#4799

On 2014-09-10, Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:46:32 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:
>
>> The real problem as I recall is that the MicroServer decides to boot
>> from the newly inserted USB disk when there isn't a boot sector on it.
>> Startup then hangs.  It makes this system hard to use as headless.
>
> I have several microservers, and had that problem once. I set the "USB 
> Device Boot Priority" to "Low" in the BIOS, and the problem went away.

That's probably the one I found.  I'll check next time I boot it.

Oh, in answer to the "Microsoft tax" thread, the HP Microservers come
without an O/S (mine came without any disks).

-- 
So excited for the Apple Watch. For centuries, we’ve checked the time
by looking at our phones. Having it on your wrist? Genius.
                                                   -- Ellen DeGeneres

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#4805

On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:28:45 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:

> On 2014-09-10, Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:46:32 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:
>>
>>> The real problem as I recall is that the MicroServer decides to boot
>>> from the newly inserted USB disk when there isn't a boot sector on it.
>>> Startup then hangs.  It makes this system hard to use as headless.
>>
>> I have several microservers, and had that problem once. I set the "USB
>> Device Boot Priority" to "Low" in the BIOS, and the problem went away.
> 
> That's probably the one I found.  I'll check next time I boot it.
> 
> Oh, in answer to the "Microsoft tax" thread, the HP Microservers come
> without an O/S (mine came without any disks).

Servers tend to...well, mine came with a documentation CD!

Mine are all running FreeBSD - although I'm playing with VMWare on one.

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#4892

On 2014-09-10, Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:28:45 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:
>
>> On 2014-09-10, Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:46:32 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:
>>>
>>>> The real problem as I recall is that the MicroServer decides to boot
>>>> from the newly inserted USB disk when there isn't a boot sector on it.
>>>> Startup then hangs.  It makes this system hard to use as headless.
>>>
>>> I have several microservers, and had that problem once. I set the "USB
>>> Device Boot Priority" to "Low" in the BIOS, and the problem went away.
>> 
>> That's probably the one I found.  I'll check next time I boot it.
>> 
>> Oh, in answer to the "Microsoft tax" thread, the HP Microservers come
>> without an O/S (mine came without any disks).
>
> Servers tend to...well, mine came with a documentation CD!
>
> Mine are all running FreeBSD - although I'm playing with VMWare on one.

I tried FreeBSD for a while on mine but ended up with Scientific Linux
because I was using that elsewhere.

I also have FreeBSD and OpenBSD in virtual machines on my Mac when I find
time to play with them (not often at the moment).

-- 
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know
we don't                                           -- Bjarne Stroustrup

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#4893

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:44:57 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:

>> Mine are all running FreeBSD - although I'm playing with VMWare on one.
> 
> I tried FreeBSD for a while on mine but ended up with Scientific Linux
> because I was using that elsewhere.

I use it mainly because I've used BSD since the 1970s! And see the sig...


-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#4891

On 2014-09-10, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
> On 2014-09-10, Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:46:32 +0200, Paul Sture wrote:
>>
>>> The real problem as I recall is that the MicroServer decides to boot
>>> from the newly inserted USB disk when there isn't a boot sector on it.
>>> Startup then hangs.  It makes this system hard to use as headless.
>>
>> I have several microservers, and had that problem once. I set the "USB 
>> Device Boot Priority" to "Low" in the BIOS, and the problem went away.
>
> That's probably the one I found.  I'll check next time I boot it.

And a reboot later, I can confirm that my cure was the same: setting the
"USB Device Boot Priority" to "Low"

-- 
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know
we don't                                           -- Bjarne Stroustrup

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#4791

On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 10:18:20 +0000 (UTC), Scion <a.b@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>Paul Sture put finger to keyboard:
>
>> On 2014-09-02, Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 15:05:16 +1000, Sylvia Else
>>><sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>>
>>>>When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say
>>>>so.
>>>>I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then see if
>>>>you can find some other OS lying around and boot that instead."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>  Are we to assume you're having a rant at the confusing and
>>> unpredictable ways the various MoBo manufacturers' choose to handle the
>>> boot options in regard to usb connected devices? :-)
>>>
>>>  If so, welcome to the club! :-(
>> 
>> My HP MicroServer was driving me nuts with this at one point.  I finally
>> worked out that every single time I plugged in a new USB disk it would
>> assume that I wanted to boot from that rather than the internal disk
>> which is its normal boot device.   On the next boot I would have to go
>> into the BIOS and tell it otherwise.
>> 
>> I think I've managed to persuade it to stop doing that now.
>
>Reading your sig, I can guess how ;-)

 Oh, I wouldn't read so much into his sig. I rather doubt he'd
_actually_ take a hammer to the job (would he?).

 I prefer the original saying, "Every screw looks like a nail when the
only tool you have is a hammer."
-- 
J B Good

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#4890

On 2014-09-10, Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 10:18:20 +0000 (UTC), Scion <a.b@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>Paul Sture put finger to keyboard:
>>
>>> On 2014-09-02, Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 15:05:16 +1000, Sylvia Else
>>>><sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say
>>>>>so.
>>>>>I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then see if
>>>>>you can find some other OS lying around and boot that instead."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>  Are we to assume you're having a rant at the confusing and
>>>> unpredictable ways the various MoBo manufacturers' choose to handle the
>>>> boot options in regard to usb connected devices? :-)
>>>>
>>>>  If so, welcome to the club! :-(
>>> 
>>> My HP MicroServer was driving me nuts with this at one point.  I finally
>>> worked out that every single time I plugged in a new USB disk it would
>>> assume that I wanted to boot from that rather than the internal disk
>>> which is its normal boot device.   On the next boot I would have to go
>>> into the BIOS and tell it otherwise.
>>> 
>>> I think I've managed to persuade it to stop doing that now.
>>
>>Reading your sig, I can guess how ;-)
>
>  Oh, I wouldn't read so much into his sig. I rather doubt he'd
> _actually_ take a hammer to the job (would he?).

You are right.  On the (very rare since I stopped using Windows) occasions
when I want to thump a PC or throw it out of the window I take a deep
breath instead of resorting to violence.

>  I prefer the original saying, "Every screw looks like a nail when the
> only tool you have is a hammer."

-- 
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know
we don't                                           -- Bjarne Stroustrup

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