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Damned BIOS

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  Damned BIOS Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-02 15:05 +1000
    Re: Damned BIOS Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 08:06 +0000
      Re: Damned BIOS Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-02 19:38 +1000
        Re: Damned BIOS Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 12:06 +0000
          Re: Damned BIOS Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-03 12:15 +1000
        Re: Damned BIOS Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-09-02 15:39 +0100
          Re: Damned BIOS Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-03 12:22 +1000
            Re: Damned BIOS Scion <a.b@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-10 10:16 +0000
              Re: Damned BIOS Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2014-09-14 15:27 +1000
                Re: Damned BIOS Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-09-14 14:25 +0100
      Re: Damned BIOS RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-09-02 18:19 +0000
        Re: Damned BIOS polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> - 2014-09-02 19:52 +0100
          Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-02 19:41 +0000
            Re: Damned BIOS polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> - 2014-09-02 21:12 +0100
              Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-02 21:00 +0000
                Re: Damned BIOS polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> - 2014-09-02 22:08 +0100
                Re: Damned BIOS Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 21:14 +0000
                Re: Damned BIOS Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-09-02 23:10 -0600
                  Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-03 05:58 +0000
                Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-14 08:26 +0200
        Re: Damned BIOS Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-09-02 21:09 +0000
    Re: Damned BIOS Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-09-02 14:29 +0100
      Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-02 16:35 +0200
        Re: Damned BIOS Scion <a.b@nospam.invalid> - 2014-09-10 10:18 +0000
          Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-10 13:46 +0200
            Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-10 13:00 +0000
              Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-10 19:28 +0200
                Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-10 19:11 +0000
                  Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-14 08:44 +0200
                    Re: Damned BIOS Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-09-14 07:17 +0000
                Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-14 08:33 +0200
          Re: Damned BIOS Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-09-10 13:53 +0100
            Re: Damned BIOS Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-09-14 08:30 +0200

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#4632 — Damned BIOS

When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say so. 
I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then see if you 
can find some other OS lying around and boot that instead."

Sylvia.

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#4633

Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say
> so.  I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then
> see if you can find some other OS lying around and boot that
> instead."

Keep in mind, the code about which you complain is from the same
authors who created this error message from years ago:

  Keyboard not found - press F1 key to continue

http://www.jobless-jack.com/2013/07/da-fuck-o-keyboard-not-found.html

Such stupidity does not inspire confidence in their ability to
determine even a mildly good way to do things,

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#4634

On 2/09/2014 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:
> Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>> When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say
>> so.  I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then
>> see if you can find some other OS lying around and boot that
>> instead."
>
> Keep in mind, the code about which you complain is from the same
> authors who created this error message from years ago:
>
>    Keyboard not found - press F1 key to continue
>
> http://www.jobless-jack.com/2013/07/da-fuck-o-keyboard-not-found.html
>
> Such stupidity does not inspire confidence in their ability to
> determine even a mildly good way to do things,

It did rather encourage hot-plugging the keyboard, which you weren't 
strictly speaking meant to do (though I've done it many many times. 
Ditto monitors and non-USB mouses).

Hard to know for sure what the thinking was. The original BIOS approach 
of looking for something bootable probably made sense back when naive 
users were expected to install their own OS. It meant the floppy drive 
could be the first boot device, so as to allow installation if it 
happened to contain a bootable disk.

I'm invoking a boot-override option. I suspect it's just adding the 
chosen device in front of the existing list, with no one having given 
thought to the ramifications of that when the chosen device proves 
unbootable.

But it's annoying. I ended up unplugging the other devices. Let it try 
to boot from them now!

Sylvia.

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#4642

Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> On 2/09/2014 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:
> > Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
> >> When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work,
> >> say so.  I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work,
> >> then see if you can find some other OS lying around and boot that
> >> instead."
> >
> > Keep in mind, the code about which you complain is from the same
> > authors who created this error message from years ago:
> >
> >    Keyboard not found - press F1 key to continue
> >
> > http://www.jobless-jack.com/2013/07/da-fuck-o-keyboard-not-found.html
> >
> > Such stupidity does not inspire confidence in their ability to
> > determine even a mildly good way to do things,

> It did rather encourage hot-plugging the keyboard, which you weren't
> strictly speaking meant to do (though I've done it many many times. 
> Ditto monitors and non-USB mouses).

True, although hot plugging a vga cable was never as problematic as
hotplugging a ps2 keyboard or mouse could be.

> Hard to know for sure what the thinking was. The original BIOS
> approach of looking for something bootable probably made sense back
> when naive users were expected to install their own OS. It meant the
> floppy drive could be the first boot device, so as to allow
> installation if it happened to contain a bootable disk.

Also, remeber that the "try to boot #1, try to boot #2" method also
dates from the early days of the IBM-PC where one could buy the machine
with just floppies for $X, or with floppies plus a hard disk for $X+Y. 
Given the two different, from the manufacturer, configurations, having
one single BIOS that attempted a floppy boot first, the went on to the
"next" (hard disk) meant the manufacturing costs could be kept down by
only needing one single mainboard/BIOS for both configurations.

Booting the floppy first, even with a hard disk, also allowed the trend
at the time of other software needing its own boot disk (i.e., early
games that simply booted themselves from floppies and ignored the hard
disk).

> I'm invoking a boot-override option. I suspect it's just adding the
> chosen device in front of the existing list, with no one having given
> thought to the ramifications of that when the chosen device proves
> unbootable.

True, if you've hit F1/F9/F8 and specifically said "boot device x" by
picking it from a menu, then the right thing to do is to try x, and if
it fails, don't move on to another device.

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#4675

On 2/09/2014 10:06 PM, Rich wrote:
> Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>> On 2/09/2014 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:
>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>>> When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work,
>>>> say so.  I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work,
>>>> then see if you can find some other OS lying around and boot that
>>>> instead."
>>>
>>> Keep in mind, the code about which you complain is from the same
>>> authors who created this error message from years ago:
>>>
>>>     Keyboard not found - press F1 key to continue
>>>
>>> http://www.jobless-jack.com/2013/07/da-fuck-o-keyboard-not-found.html
>>>
>>> Such stupidity does not inspire confidence in their ability to
>>> determine even a mildly good way to do things,
>
>> It did rather encourage hot-plugging the keyboard, which you weren't
>> strictly speaking meant to do (though I've done it many many times.
>> Ditto monitors and non-USB mouses).
>
> True, although hot plugging a vga cable was never as problematic as
> hotplugging a ps2 keyboard or mouse could be.

As I understood it, the real issue was that it was theoretically 
possible to break something because there was no guarantee that voltage 
levels would alter in an acceptable order. In practice, I don't remember 
anything breaking as a result.

Software was not always up to the task of having a keyboard or mouse 
appear on the fly, but that was manageable.

Sylvia.

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#4646

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 19:38:04 +1000, Sylvia Else
<sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

>On 2/09/2014 6:06 PM, Rich wrote:
>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>>> When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say
>>> so.  I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then
>>> see if you can find some other OS lying around and boot that
>>> instead."
>>
>> Keep in mind, the code about which you complain is from the same
>> authors who created this error message from years ago:
>>
>>    Keyboard not found - press F1 key to continue
>>
>> http://www.jobless-jack.com/2013/07/da-fuck-o-keyboard-not-found.html
>>
>> Such stupidity does not inspire confidence in their ability to
>> determine even a mildly good way to do things,
>
>It did rather encourage hot-plugging the keyboard, which you weren't 
>strictly speaking meant to do (though I've done it many many times. 
>Ditto monitors and non-USB mouses).
>

 In _all_ my experience of hot plugging PS/2 keyboards and mice, the
impied "Danger" of electrical damage is virtually non existent. The
advice is not so much as to reduce the risk of damage as to indicate
that the detection and configuration of those devices is a one shot
deal during the POST.

 If it's not present during the POST, it doesn't exist as far as the
BIOS is concerned, _ever_! With DOS based OSen which rely on the BIOS
for access to these devices, this situation remains immutable even
after the OS boots (MSDOS, win95, win98 and winME for example). I may
be wrong, but I think NT and *nix based OSen can reinitialise the PS/2
ports and detect such post POST hot plugged devices.

>Hard to know for sure what the thinking was. The original BIOS approach 
>of looking for something bootable probably made sense back when naive 
>users were expected to install their own OS. It meant the floppy drive 
>could be the first boot device, so as to allow installation if it 
>happened to contain a bootable disk.

 You're hearking back to simpler times before USB storage and a
plethora of workaround solutions to bootability appeared on the scene
to confound the process with a confusing array of hot pluggable USB
boot media choices. _THAT's_ the _REAL_ problem here. :-(

>
>I'm invoking a boot-override option. I suspect it's just adding the 
>chosen device in front of the existing list, with no one having given 
>thought to the ramifications of that when the chosen device proves 
>unbootable.

 Ah, the transient nature of bootable USB media! All the evidence so
far suggests the manufacturers are having a hard time on agreeing how
to handle the rather chaotic complexity introduced by bootable USB
storage devices. It seems they've not yet come to any amicable
agreement on this knotty problem (at least not to any extent that
would conviince the end users that there is any consistency to the
boot options logic).
>
>But it's annoying. I ended up unplugging the other devices. Let it try 
>to boot from them now!
>

 That's about the only way of standing any chance of getting it to
boot from the USB attached device of your choosing[1], provided the
boot options don't rely on the wanted USB device having to be present
at the time you configured it so it can be referenced by its unique
name (which, often times, it will promptly forget if the device in
question is ever replaced with another (or just unplugged during the
next boot) and then re-attached).

 There's also the additional problem regarding bootable USB storage
and that is how it presents itself, either as a large FDD or as a HDD
(or, indeed, something else entirely different again - I'm not fully
up to date with the various shenanigens of USB mass storage
standards).

 I do know that a usb pen drive can present itself as just a giant FDD
or else as a HDD. The last lot of USB pen drives I bought (3 x 8GB
Sandisk Cruzers on a card), in stark contrast to every other USB pen
drive I own, now shows its capacity and free space, just like a hard
drive, in the status line in explorer[2] whenever the drive icon is
clicked on.

 This is radically unlike the rest of my usb pen drive collection
where I need to right click and select properties before I can
ascertain this information. I suspect it's this change that prevents
me from using them as bootable pen drives for linux installers and so
on using the usual USB bootable image creation tools.

[1] If you find yourself having to go to that extreme, a better option
would be to familiarise yourself with the hotkey used to select the
boot device selection menu.

[2] For the benefit of our younger readers, this is a line of status
information shown at the bottom of the explorer window that is used to
provide _useful_ supplementary information that's totally lacking in
Vista and win7 versions.

 Don't bother arguing that there's no need because when you hover the
mouse over a drive icon, this info eventually pops up anyway. What I'm
really really pissed off about this useless status line is that it
simply won't show the total number of objects and file data in a
folder window as is the case for win2k and XP.

 The only way to get this sort of info in Vista and Win7 folder
windows is to _manually_ select everything (CTRL A or drag the mouse
pointer to create a selection box). Even then I'm not sure if this
works (I don't have any systems cursed with Vista or win7 at hand to
test this right now).
-- 
J B Good

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#4676

On 3/09/2014 12:39 AM, Johny B Good wrote:

>   Ah, the transient nature of bootable USB media! All the evidence so
> far suggests the manufacturers are having a hard time on agreeing how
> to handle the rather chaotic complexity introduced by bootable USB
> storage devices. It seems they've not yet come to any amicable
> agreement on this knotty problem (at least not to any extent that
> would conviince the end users that there is any consistency to the
> boot options logic).

Actually, in this particular instance, I was trying to boot from CD-ROM. 
All it takes is a flaky drive, a less-than-cared-for disc, or just 
impatience after inserting same, and you're (Aggh!) booting Windows again.

>   There's also the additional problem regarding bootable USB storage
> and that is how it presents itself, either as a large FDD or as a HDD
> (or, indeed, something else entirely different again - I'm not fully
> up to date with the various shenanigens of USB mass storage
> standards).

Certainly, if there's a single way of setting up a USB drive so that it 
will boot on any PC, or even just the PCs I own, I've yet to find it.

Sylvia.

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#4787

Sylvia Else put finger to keyboard:

> On 3/09/2014 12:39 AM, Johny B Good wrote:
> 
>>   Ah, the transient nature of bootable USB media! All the evidence so
>> far suggests the manufacturers are having a hard time on agreeing how
>> to handle the rather chaotic complexity introduced by bootable USB
>> storage devices. It seems they've not yet come to any amicable
>> agreement on this knotty problem (at least not to any extent that would
>> conviince the end users that there is any consistency to the boot
>> options logic).
> 
> Actually, in this particular instance, I was trying to boot from CD-ROM.
> All it takes is a flaky drive, a less-than-cared-for disc, or just
> impatience after inserting same, and you're (Aggh!) booting Windows
> again.

What brand of machine?

Dell are quite good like this - if you hit F12 during startup you'll get a 
boot device menu, if the selected device won't boot then it prompts, 
rather than defaulting to HDD.

In a corporate environment I turn off booting from anything but the HDD. 
Then password protect the BIOS. One can still go to the boot device menu 
and select a new boot device, but must provide the BIOS password.

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#4888

On 10/09/2014 8:16 PM, Scion wrote:
> Sylvia Else put finger to keyboard:
>
>> On 3/09/2014 12:39 AM, Johny B Good wrote:
>>
>>>    Ah, the transient nature of bootable USB media! All the evidence so
>>> far suggests the manufacturers are having a hard time on agreeing how
>>> to handle the rather chaotic complexity introduced by bootable USB
>>> storage devices. It seems they've not yet come to any amicable
>>> agreement on this knotty problem (at least not to any extent that would
>>> conviince the end users that there is any consistency to the boot
>>> options logic).
>>
>> Actually, in this particular instance, I was trying to boot from CD-ROM.
>> All it takes is a flaky drive, a less-than-cared-for disc, or just
>> impatience after inserting same, and you're (Aggh!) booting Windows
>> again.
>
> What brand of machine?
>
> Dell are quite good like this - if you hit F12 during startup you'll get a
> boot device menu, if the selected device won't boot then it prompts,
> rather than defaulting to HDD.

It's a Gigabyte motherboard. I haven't bought a complete desktop system 
since the 486DX2-66 was a top of the range CPU.

Sylvia.

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#4894

On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:27:05 +1000, Sylvia Else
<sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:

>On 10/09/2014 8:16 PM, Scion wrote:
>> Sylvia Else put finger to keyboard:
>>
>>> On 3/09/2014 12:39 AM, Johny B Good wrote:
>>>
>>>>    Ah, the transient nature of bootable USB media! All the evidence so
>>>> far suggests the manufacturers are having a hard time on agreeing how
>>>> to handle the rather chaotic complexity introduced by bootable USB
>>>> storage devices. It seems they've not yet come to any amicable
>>>> agreement on this knotty problem (at least not to any extent that would
>>>> conviince the end users that there is any consistency to the boot
>>>> options logic).
>>>
>>> Actually, in this particular instance, I was trying to boot from CD-ROM.
>>> All it takes is a flaky drive, a less-than-cared-for disc, or just
>>> impatience after inserting same, and you're (Aggh!) booting Windows
>>> again.
>>
>> What brand of machine?
>>
>> Dell are quite good like this - if you hit F12 during startup you'll get a
>> boot device menu, if the selected device won't boot then it prompts,
>> rather than defaulting to HDD.
>
>It's a Gigabyte motherboard. I haven't bought a complete desktop system 
>since the 486DX2-66 was a top of the range CPU.
>

 I've never bought any ready made desktop PCs from when, 1983ish, I
got distracted from my Transam Tuscan S100 bus machine by discovering
old IBM PC MoBos and peripherals and everything else being sold at
Radioham rallies. I've always assembled my own desktop PCs ever since.

 Prior to that, I'd bought a Sinclair XZ80 in 1980 followed by that
S100 bus machine a year or so later. Although they were both bought as
brand new, they were both kit projects requiring far more skills to
assemble than simply knowing how to use a screwdriver and adjust
jumpers or dip switches on the MoBo or adapter cards.

 The only new "PC" I ever bought was an Acer Aspire 3600 laptop
machine nearly 8 years ago (still going strong, running 24/7). It came
with winXP MCE edition pre installed which I swiftly fixed by
upgrading it to win2k SP4 :-)
-- 
J B Good

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#4653

On 2014-09-02, Rich <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> wrote:
>> When I say boot from device X, I mean do that. If it won't work, say
>> so.  I don't mean "Have a fair go at X, and if it won't work, then
>> see if you can find some other OS lying around and boot that
>> instead."
>
> Keep in mind, the code about which you complain is from the same
> authors who created this error message from years ago:
>
>   Keyboard not found - press F1 key to continue
>
> http://www.jobless-jack.com/2013/07/da-fuck-o-keyboard-not-found.html
>
> Such stupidity does not inspire confidence in their ability to
> determine even a mildly good way to do things,

I can understand why people hate this error message, but to me it always
made sense: "There is apparently no keyboard present, which is bad.  So
plug one in, jackass, and prove it by pressing F1 when you're done."

That is a reasonable sequence for a desktop computer that ought to have
a keyboard attached (and stupid if you're running a headless server, in
which case you're probably smart enough to disable that check in the
BIOS anyway).

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#4658

On 02/09/2014 19:19, RS Wood wrote:
> I can understand why people hate this error message, but to me it always
> made sense: "There is apparently no keyboard present, which is bad.  So
> plug one in, jackass, and prove it by pressing F1 when you're done."

But you could get that message, or very similar, in the days when 
plugging a keyboard in to a powered machine would blow the motherboard 
(at least, the keyboard port would never work again).

-- 
Rod

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#4660

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 19:52:16 +0100, polygonum wrote:

> On 02/09/2014 19:19, RS Wood wrote:
>> I can understand why people hate this error message, but to me it
>> always made sense: "There is apparently no keyboard present, which is
>> bad.  So plug one in, jackass, and prove it by pressing F1 when you're
>> done."
> 
> But you could get that message, or very similar, in the days when
> plugging a keyboard in to a powered machine would blow the motherboard
> (at least, the keyboard port would never work again).

I never understood that to be a problem withh keyboard ports; only with 
mouse ports.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#4665

On 02/09/2014 20:41, Bob Eager wrote:
> I never understood that to be a problem withh keyboard ports; only with
> mouse ports.

You could be right - I was always paranoid about the possibility and 
never destroyed a motherboard by not plugging in either when powered up. 
Hence dead PCs were always created by others who might have said 
anything about what they did.

-- 
Rod

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#4669

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:12:35 +0100, polygonum wrote:

> On 02/09/2014 20:41, Bob Eager wrote:
>> I never understood that to be a problem withh keyboard ports; only with
>> mouse ports.
> 
> You could be right - I was always paranoid about the possibility and
> never destroyed a motherboard by not plugging in either when powered up.
> Hence dead PCs were always created by others who might have said
> anything about what they did.

Given that the interface was often via the same chip, I've always 
wondered. The mouse bit might be (partial) folklore based on blowing up 
add-on mouse ports in the days before they were standard.



-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#4672

On 02/09/2014 22:00, Bob Eager wrote:
> Given that the interface was often via the same chip, I've always
> wondered. The mouse bit might be (partial) folklore based on blowing up
> add-on mouse ports in the days before they were standard.

There certainly was one (at least one) ICL PC which suffered this fate 
all too often. Can't now remember much about it but was well known.

-- 
Rod

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#4674

Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:12:35 +0100, polygonum wrote:

> > On 02/09/2014 20:41, Bob Eager wrote:
> >> I never understood that to be a problem withh keyboard ports; only with
> >> mouse ports.
> > 
> > You could be right - I was always paranoid about the possibility and
> > never destroyed a motherboard by not plugging in either when powered up.
> > Hence dead PCs were always created by others who might have said
> > anything about what they did.

> Given that the interface was often via the same chip, I've always 
> wondered. The mouse bit might be (partial) folklore based on blowing up 
> add-on mouse ports in the days before they were standard.

Since the ports were not designed for hot plugging (all pins were equal
length) it was in theory possible to connect at least one data pin and
the power pin before the ground pin made contact.  The result of this
could be an extremely large (compared to normal signal levels) leakage
current from the Vcc supply into the data pins.  This could possibly
burn something out if the something wasn't designed with this current
flow in mind (and it usually wasn't, because there wasn't supposed to
be a floating ground, a hot Vcc, and a current sink over the data pin).

I never tried hot plugging an old ps2 style keyboard, so I have no
first hand knowledge if the theory actually played out in practice

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#4681

Bob Eager wrote:

> Given that the interface was often via the same chip, I've always
> wondered. The mouse bit might be (partial) folklore based on blowing up
> add-on mouse ports in the days before they were standard.
> 

Virtually every mb I've seen with a blown mouse port required replacement of 
one resistor to repair - but try to replace ONE RESISTOR on a contemporary 
circuit board!

-- 
Will Honea

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#4682

On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 23:10:34 -0600, Will Honea wrote:

> Bob Eager wrote:
> 
>> Given that the interface was often via the same chip, I've always
>> wondered. The mouse bit might be (partial) folklore based on blowing up
>> add-on mouse ports in the days before they were standard.
>> 
>> 
> Virtually every mb I've seen with a blown mouse port required
> replacement of one resistor to repair - but try to replace ONE RESISTOR
> on a contemporary circuit board!

The only time I've ever had to repair one, it was the mouse port. That 
was on an IBM P70 portable, and it was actually a wired in fuse. 



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#4889

On 2014-09-02, Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:12:35 +0100, polygonum wrote:
>
>> On 02/09/2014 20:41, Bob Eager wrote:
>>> I never understood that to be a problem withh keyboard ports; only with
>>> mouse ports.
>> 
>> You could be right - I was always paranoid about the possibility and
>> never destroyed a motherboard by not plugging in either when powered up.
>> Hence dead PCs were always created by others who might have said
>> anything about what they did.
>
> Given that the interface was often via the same chip, I've always 
> wondered. The mouse bit might be (partial) folklore based on blowing up 
> add-on mouse ports in the days before they were standard.

I've plugged in mice and keyboards on the fly for years without incident.

Having said that, not before the mid-90s and my experience has been mainly
with business rather than consumer class kit.

I definitely missed out on that bit of folklore

-- 
People who think they know everything really annoy those of us who know
we don't                                           -- Bjarne Stroustrup

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