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Groups > comp.misc > #1911 > unrolled thread
| Started by | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-03-23 12:06 +0000 |
| Last post | 2014-03-23 19:23 -0400 |
| Articles | 5 on this page of 165 — 42 participants |
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Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-23 12:06 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-23 12:11 +0000
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-23 14:43 +0000
Re: ebooks Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-03-23 16:14 +0000
Re: ebooks root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2014-03-23 18:09 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-23 19:21 +0000
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-23 20:34 +0000
Re: ebooks Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2014-06-13 14:14 -0400
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-13 21:44 +0100
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-13 16:53 -0400
Re: ebooks Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2014-06-14 08:37 +0100
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-14 18:34 -0400
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-06-15 10:40 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-15 12:05 +0100
Re: ebooks Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-06-15 11:20 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-15 12:37 +0100
Re: ebooks root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2014-06-15 17:48 +0000
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-15 15:59 -0400
Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-16 06:30 +1000
Re: ebooks Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2014-06-16 04:04 -0500
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-16 11:44 +0000
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-16 10:32 -0400
Re: ebooks Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2014-06-16 10:43 -0500
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-16 13:13 -0400
Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-17 06:45 +1000
Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-17 06:36 +1000
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-06-15 22:43 +0000
Re: ebooks Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-06-15 23:26 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-16 22:01 +0100
Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-15 06:27 +1000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-23 19:09 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-24 01:55 +0000
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 10:35 +0000
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-24 13:01 -0400
Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-24 17:15 +0100
Re: ebooks Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2014-03-24 15:07 +0000
Re: ebooks Rich <rich@example.com> - 2014-03-24 17:13 +0000
Re: ebooks Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-03-24 13:07 -0500
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-24 13:28 -0500
Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-24 21:48 +0100
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 22:57 +0000
Re: ebooks "Lanto J." <lantoj78@gmail.com> - 2014-03-25 08:14 +1100
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 00:01 +0000
Re: ebooks "Lanto J." <lantoj78@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 07:17 +1100
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 23:44 +0000
Re: ebooks "Lanto J." <lantoj78@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 12:01 +1100
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-26 13:36 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-26 20:08 +0000
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-24 14:48 -0400
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-25 18:13 -0400
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 01:20 -0400
Re: ebooks Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2014-03-25 05:49 +0000
Re: ebooks Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-03-25 07:06 +0000
Re: ebooks Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-03-25 08:19 -0500
Re: ebooks Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-03-25 09:40 -0400
Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-26 11:14 +1100
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-25 15:42 -0400
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-25 11:47 -0500
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-25 19:25 -0400
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-26 12:19 -0400
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 08:25 -0500
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-26 16:01 -0400
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-26 20:38 +0000
Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-27 08:19 +1100
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 15:58 -0500
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-27 06:28 -0400
Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-26 22:03 +0100
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 00:46 -0400
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-26 15:01 -0500
Re: ebooks scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-03-26 20:57 +0000
Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-27 13:23 +0000
Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-27 17:48 +0100
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-27 08:26 -0500
Re: ebooks greymausg <maus@mail.com> - 2014-03-27 14:55 +0000
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-27 10:05 -0500
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-27 11:55 -0500
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-27 14:25 -0500
Re: ebooks scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-03-27 20:44 +0000
Re: ebooks Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-28 01:38 +0000
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-27 22:37 -0500
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 23:52 -0400
Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-28 16:07 +1100
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-28 10:52 -0500
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-28 11:57 -0500
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-28 14:41 -0500
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-28 21:27 +0000
Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-28 17:02 -0500
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-28 23:46 -0400
Re: ebooks Philip Shaw <jnufcvyvuc@tznvy.pbz> - 2014-04-02 01:32 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-04-02 14:28 +0000
Re: ebooks Philip Shaw <jnufcvyvuc@tznvy.pbz> - 2014-04-07 05:32 +0000
Re: ebooks "John" <j@j.j> - 2014-04-17 16:36 -0700
Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-04-02 07:31 -0800
Re: ebooks scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-03-26 13:38 +0000
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 11:14 -0500
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 00:56 -0400
Re: ebooks Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2014-03-27 16:52 +0000
Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-27 14:03 -0500
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 23:07 -0400
Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-27 21:44 +0100
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-26 13:51 +0000
Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-26 09:22 -0800
Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-26 13:54 -0500
Re: ebooks davidmylastname@acm.org (David Griffith) - 2014-03-27 03:41 +0000
Re: ebooks Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-03-27 07:36 -0400
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-28 03:40 -0400
Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-27 17:59 +0100
Re: ebooks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-03-26 15:38 -0700
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-26 22:09 -0400
Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-27 13:55 -0500
Re: ebooks Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-28 02:27 +0000
Re: ebooks cb@bobby.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2014-03-28 10:42 +0000
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 23:12 -0400
Re: ebooks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-03-28 23:17 -0700
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-26 16:06 -0400
Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-26 09:19 -0800
Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-26 13:50 -0500
Re: ebooks Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-03-26 20:00 +0000
Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-26 13:30 -0800
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 15:51 -0500
Re: ebooks Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-03-26 13:09 -0600
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-26 19:23 -0400
Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-27 08:12 +1100
Re: ebooks despen@verizon.net (Dan.Espen) - 2014-03-26 19:24 -0400
Re: ebooks Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-26 23:40 +0000
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-27 06:36 -0400
Knuth/TeX (was Re: ebooks) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-27 14:33 +0000
Re: Knuth/TeX (was Re: ebooks) "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-27 14:01 -0500
Re: ebooks rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2014-03-27 03:10 +0000
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-25 08:19 -0500
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-25 15:16 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 13:32 +0000
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-25 15:20 +0000
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-25 15:49 -0400
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-25 15:58 +0000
Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 01:46 -0400
Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-25 08:48 -0800
Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-25 21:20 +0000
Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-26 07:31 +1100
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-25 08:42 -0400
Re: ebooks Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-03-24 12:52 -0600
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-24 20:12 -0400
Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-24 15:54 -0500
Re: ebooks Rob Myers <rob@robmyers.org> - 2014-03-24 22:19 +0000
Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-25 07:54 +1100
Re: ebooks scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2014-03-24 16:21 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-24 17:02 +0000
Re: ebooks Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-03-24 12:21 -0500
Re: ebooks Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-03-24 19:50 +0000
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 22:48 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-24 23:42 +0000
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-25 15:07 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 23:40 +0000
Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-26 21:57 +0100
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-28 13:58 +0000
Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-28 15:44 +0100
Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 11:35 +1100
Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-25 07:28 +1100
Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 22:31 +0000
Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 00:06 +0000
Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 07:06 +1100
Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-24 10:25 -0400
Re: ebooks Mike Sanders <mike@taco-shack.cow> - 2014-03-24 06:04 +0000
Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-26 13:17 +0100
Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-23 19:23 -0400
Page 9 of 9 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9]
| From | "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-26 07:06 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <bpe5vvF4m9hU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #1960 |
Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote > Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote >> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote >>> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote >>>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote >>>>> The biggest problem with ebooks is navigation; you can't slide a >>>>> finger-nail between pages at roughly the right distance between >>>>> front and back and then flick pages to find what you want, >>>> I can. Not PHYSICAL pages, but yes, I slide my finger along the >>>> bottom until I'm say, half way in, then tap right/left to flip pages >>>> to the right page. >>>>> If I'm going to pay for a book, I want a hard copy; a proper >>>>> paperback at least. I am repelled by the idea of paying money for >>>>> a licence to possess one digital copy which is not transferable to >>>>> anyone else, and possibly not even to another device owned by me, >>>>> and which can be withdrawn at any time the provider sees fit. >>>>> Books are for sharing and passing on and going back to; that's >>>>> perfectly possible with ebooks, but not while the publishers try to >>>>> impose 'digital rights management' and 'licenses' and other >>>>> nonsense making such activities 'shady' or 'illegal'. >>>> Fortunately, stripping the DRM from ebooks is trivial. >>> But doing so contravenes the 'licence' or 'end user licensing >>> agreement' to which you have to agree before you can access the >>> original file. >> I don’t care. I believe that I have the same rights with an ebook >> as I have with a physical book and that there is no licence at all >> involved legally or morally. And I have never agreed to anything >> whatever they claim. > What you believe and what you care about are your own opinions. > They carry no weight in law. I wasn’t talking about the law. > I'd be very surprised if you've ever bought an > ebook without at some point having to click on > something to say 'I accept the terms and conditions'; Try using amazon some time. I have never done that with any of the ebooks I have got from them. I just click on the purchase button and I've got it. And even if I did click on something that said something like that, that does not legally constitute any agreement with something which is not something the author of that text had any right to anyway. > it doesn't matter whether or not you've read them all, if you > say you accept them then you do accept them. That's a contract. Wrong in my jurisdiction. > Any recent (since WWII?) printed book is likely to have a notice > on the cover or flyleaf or somewhere at least easy to find, saying > that it is sold subject to the condition that it is not copied in any > way without the publisher's specific agreement. And if it said that your first born would be sold into slavery if you did that, that would be legally null and void and not binding. What makes copying the book illegal is the law, not what is printed in that particular book. And I can't even see that when I buy the book online anyway until after I have received it. And that restriction still applys to the book even if it’s a used book and that page has been ripped from the book by the previous owner of the book too. > If you accept the book, you accept that condition. Wrong. > That's a contract. There is no legally binding contract in that situation. There is certainly law that applys, but that is a different matter entirely to what someone chooses to print in a particular book. What is printed in a particular book is in fact just an attempt by the publisher to make it clear to whoever has the book in their hands what the law says. And does not prevent anyone from using the law that applys in their own jurisdiction from doing what the law allows them to do with regards to copying parts of the book for review or comment etc. > You have agreed not to copy the book, in each case. Wrong. I have agreed to nothing. > The paper one is a lot harder to copy than > the digital one, but that isn't the point. The point is that the law says what you can legally copy and it doesn’t matter a damn what is printed in that book in that regard. >>> The publishers will compare this with a thief getting into a >>> money-box by picking a simple lock; >> I don’t care what they compare it with. >>> what matters is that it was done, not how easy it might have been. >>> If the licence to read an ebook is found to be enforceable in law >> It won't be in my country. > You have a country all your own? Nope. >>> then the publishers will start going after people who they believe >>> have breached that licence >> But they will have no way of working out if I have done that. > Good luck with that. Its completely trivial to ensure that they never get to see anything of mine. >>> - just as the recorded music industry have been chasing people >>> who make unencrypted copies of CDs and MPEGs available. >> So I won't make the ebooks available, I will just remove the DRM >> so I can do what I believe I have the legal and moral right to do, >> put it on anything I choose to put it on, give it to anyone I choose >> to give it to when I have no further use for it myself etc, sell it at a >> garage/yard sale if I choose to do that too. >>> With printed books and pressed gramophone records, it's >>> easy for the industry to enforce the idea that if you want >>> another copy, you have to get it from them and pay for it. >> It isnt actually, its trivially easy to copy >> a book or gramophone records. > Not preserving the identical user experience in isn't. It is with a book and other physical music formats. And its legal to move the music to a different physical format in some jurisdictions too, regardless of what the copyright owner wants to allow in that regard. >>> They can't control what you do with that copy, but >>> they can be reasonably certain that any copies in >>> circulation have been made by them and paid for. >>> Digital media have fundamentally changed those facts. >> That's their problem, not mine. >>> If I want to share a book that I'm reading on my tablet, without >>> sharing the device and all its other content, I can transmit it to my >>> friend's device by cable or wifi or bluetooth or infrared or some >>> other means - but that creates a duplicate of the original. Even if >>> publishers try to include a program that will erase the original if >>> it detects a copy being made, any code that can be invented can be >>> countered by other code so such attempts at 'protection' are >>> ultimately futile. >> Again, that's their problem, not mine. >>> This is fine for end users, at least in the short term, >>> but is very bad news for the content providers whose >>> income depends on getting paid per copy created. >> Again, that's their problem, not mine. > Unless you want content after the content > producers have been forced to stop making it That will never happen with books or music or video either. > because they need to put their effort into earning a living somehow. Plenty of authors and musicians have always accepted that they may not be able to live just on the sales of what they produce. Plenty are happy to make what they produce available for free now that its so easy to do that with youtube etc. If some others find that that that cripples their own sales, that's their problem, not mine. You have always had that with most professions, there will always be some prepared to do some stuff for free and that does affect the income of those who are not prepared to do that. I do that myself, and if those who depend on that work to make living don’t like that, that's their problem, not mine. >>> It's bad enough for it to make some businesses unsustainable; >>> as already noted in this thread, actual bricks and mortar book >>> shops (and record shops too) are becoming rarer. >> And ebook distribution much better. We have even seen some >> choose to hand out free legal copys to anyone who wants them >> for a while. That isnt as practical with dead tree books. >>> Publishers too face a real threat to their long term survival, >> I doubt it with ebooks. The detail will change, just like it did >> when we started to be able to record music if we wanted to, >> but that did not see the demise of music. > Certainly not. It has made the record companies suffer > though, forcing them to retrench, merge, or close completely. Again, that's their problem. Things change, those involved in producing buggy whips get to wear the downsides of most of us no longer needing buggy whips anymore. > Musicians can still create and perform, there are still live concerts etc, And now have trivially easy ways to make what they record available to anyone who want it, either for free or at a price. > but without an HMV or a Sony or some such 'music house' > to provide publicity and recording facilities and advice and > advances and so on, how many musicians find fame or fortune? We'll see. We've already seen plenty use operations like amazon to self publish. And we have also seen some offer an editing service quite separate from a publishing operation that self publishers can use, and they end up with a much higher percentage of the retail price of what they write when they go that route. I expect that if someone like JK Rowling chooses to go that route, that they are likely to be even more successful than she was with someone who is as good at writing as she is. And we will see a hell of a lot more personal historys and memoirs that would never find any publisher interested in publishing, because the market for that particular book couldn’t possible pay for the much higher overheads any commercial publisher is stuck with. Yes, that may well see quite different books available to anyone who wants them, but that's life, things change. >>> and that in turn means that writers will >>> lose that avenue of support and payment. >> But we will still see some who are prepared >> to pay for what they decide they want to have. > If they happen to find out that it's there. Its now MUCH easier to find out what is available in your area of interest. >>> Creative types are adaptable and will eventually >>> find new ways of earning from their work, >> And some have in fact found that offering free copys of at least some >> of their work for a limited time does see some decide that they like >> the work and are prepared to pay for more of their work. Something >> that is much more practical with ebooks than with dead tree books. > It's a way of generating 'word of mouth' publicity; the only sort there > is without a Penguin or a Hamlyn or some such pushing your wares. That last is wrong. There are much better ways of keeping track of what has shown up in your area of interest than there used to be when the only real alternative was to see what had shown up in the bookshops you could visit, or in a review in a newspaper etc. >>> but the intermediaries who depend on both the creators >>> and the consumers co-operating with them, will have to work >>> out some new way to survive, otherwise they will vanish. >> Yes, quite a few newspapers have vanished. >>> We can expect them to fight very hard, and >>> possibly 'dirty', to preserve themselves. >> And we are able to strip the DRM when we choose to do that. > Imposing DRM merely indicates their intention that > the contract with you that you will not make any > copies, will be enforced by them in any way they can. And those of use with even half a clue know that there is very little they can actually do to enforce anything even when they have got some jurisdictions to make removing the DRM illegal. > Breaking the DRM is your indication that > you intend to breach your contract with them No, it is actually me showing that there is no contract with them at all, and that I choose to treat that ebook in the same way that I am legally entitled to do with the book. > - and evidence that you have done so. Nope. There is no contract at all. > Imposing DRM on a file isn't the 'dirty' part of the fight, it's > just the notice that the fight will be on if you choose to start it. And is just pure bluff because there is no way that they will ever know whether I have stripped the DRM or who stripped the DRM. > This is not something readers will tolerate for long, Plenty of us don’t tolerate it now, we strip the DRM and make an obscene gesture in the general direction of the publisher. > but it is what the publishers are doing for now. Until they find a > better less combative way of making a living - or stop living at all Or just get to wear people like me stripping the DRM and accept the fact that there is nothing they can do about that and that the DRM only affects those who are not prepared to strip it or don’t know how to do that and who are too stupid to ask how to do that. > - this is the situation we all have to be aware of for now. And plenty of us just strip the DRM and carry on regardless. > There were "luddites" in the early stages of the industrial revolution > when producers found themselves being replaced by machines. We are > now in the early stages of a digital revolution, and again some people > are finding their livelihoods threatened or vanishing so they try to > resist; And will be just as unsuccessful as those who made buggy whips. There are still some who do, but it’s a tiny subset of those who used to. > this time, the most threatened are corporations and their employees > and investors rather than individual craftsmen and they can't just smash > the new machines - but they are finding other ways to be neo-luddites. And won't ever be able to make their material uncopyable. > Sometimes it feels as though the neo-luddites are fighting their > own customers, when they should really be trying to adapt to > the new realities. There will be casualties; try not to be one. I know that I will never be one because not only is there no contract, they won't even know when I have stripped their DRM.
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| From | Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-24 10:25 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <53304042$6$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net> |
| In reply to | #1933 |
In <slrnlj02jc.1j0.catwheezel@ID-107770.user.individual.net>, on 03/24/2014 at 10:35 AM, Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> said: >Creative types are adaptable and will eventually find new ways of >earning from their work, but the intermediaries who depend on both >the creators and the consumers co-operating with them, will have >to work out some new way to survive, otherwise they will vanish. That would be bad because? The intermediaries are often parasites, cheating authors, etc., out of their royalties with creative bookkeeping. If, e.g., an author, a band, can make a living without siphoning revenue off to a publisher or studio, I see that as a good thing. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel> Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not reply to spamtrap@library.lspace.org
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| From | Mike Sanders <mike@taco-shack.cow> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-24 06:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <lgohsg$33s$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #1913 |
In comp.misc Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote: > If I'm going to pay for a book, I want a hard copy; a proper paperback > at least. I am repelled by the idea of paying money for a licence to > possess one digital copy which is not transferable to anyone else, and > possibly not even to another device owned by me, and which can be > withdrawn at any time the provider sees fit. Books are for sharing and > passing on and going back to; that's perfectly possible with ebooks, but > not while the publishers try to impose 'digital rights management' and > 'licenses' and other nonsense making such activities 'shady' or > 'illegal'. Aye. Sole advantage of ebooks imo, is scanning for a given term in (say) a technical manual. Much faster than flipping through pages, which ironically enough gives one more time to read papyrus... Still, nothing beats a book. -- Mike Sanders www: http://freebsd.hypermart.net gpg: 0xD94D4C13
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| From | Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-26 13:17 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <v2ta0b-34s1.ln1@news.chingola.ch> |
| In reply to | #1913 |
On 2014-03-23, Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote: > > I have yet to buy an ebook; my use for ebook readers is for access to > out-of-print or out-of-copyright books from, for example, Project > Gutenberg. They're also handy for use with the instruction manuals > available only as PDF files. I have just bought a few ebooks from Amazon, and I wouldn't buy from them again given the choice. Well I had to start somewhere, but after my purchase I discovered I could have got the same technical book elsewhere and in more than one format too, rather than just Kindle; IIRC that would have been just 10% or less extra so well worth it for me. I read that via Kindle for Mac and the Kindle app on my iPad. > The biggest problem with ebooks is navigation; you can't slide a > finger-nail between pages at roughly the right distance between front > and back and then flick pages to find what you want, for example, and > having to go to a menu 'tree' to move about in a book is horribly slow - > or impossible, if the book hasn't been formatted to match the way your > ebook reader needs. There are ebook readers that can't even 'do' > bookmarks! Another thing I find awkward is when I alternate reading between the Mac and the iPad. When I swap from one to the other for the same book, the offer to skip forward to the furthest point read would be fine with a novel which you read from beginning to end, but I don't want to read a technical book that way. I want more than one bookmark for a technical manual. It's interesting as a novelty seeing what others have highlighted, if you switch that facility on, but it brings up the issue of feeling watched, potential privacy concerns etc. > There are bookshops that have coffee bars in them in London. I suspect > the idea arrived with US television programmes or films. There are also > a few restaurants with shelves of books for the patrons to use. I > approve of both arrangements. I also know, and like, a public library > that has a small coffee shop inside it. When I visited Yorkshire in the late 90s there were two "new style" bookshops facing each other, Blackwells and B&N IIRC (possibly dodgy memory there), where you could have coffee. A quick scan of the shelves in the one I chose to go in proved disappointing as they were mainly full of bestsellers. The proximity of these two shops belonging to large chains gave the impression that they were there as part of a corporate battle to see who won in the end, which I found sad. -- Paul Sture "In that case," said Napoleon, "let us wait twenty minutes; when the enemy is making a false movement we must take good care not to interrupt him."
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-03-23 19:23 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lgncc6$ovn$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #1911 |
On 03/23/2014 08:06 AM, RS Wood wrote: > On 2014-03-19, greymausg <maus@mail.com> wrote: >> I was reading "Mining the Social Web", obtained (!) from the Internet, >> and found it interesting, so I downloaded the second edition from >> ora.. I had a few instructional ebooks before, and found them hard to >> deal with, bad fonts, etc. The above book seems to be where things >> are going, nicely intigrated. Most of the address are bit.ly/* which >> entailed just clicking on (I find some of these shortened addresses >> had to deal with in printed form, bad eyesight) >> >> As I wrote, seems to be a pointer to the future. >> >> (The book itself?... well, its all about going through the official >> API. No great fun) >> >> Hello,anyone there? >> >> >> > > I'm here, and I'll ignore my plonkiful colleague here. "Mining the > Social Web" sounds like the worst book ever published - I'd hate to read > it. But I agree with you about ebooks in general. > > I was a reluctant convert - still very much like my bookshelf and my > collection and some things like a few poetry anthologies I like to just > flip through over coffee when I want a change from the glowing screen of > my RSS reader. But I almost never buy hardcovers anymore and > increasingly find myself going straight to the ebook version. The > exception is tech manuals, which I like in paper and at my side. But > fiction, magazines, literature, short stories, all that kind of stuff - > I like the hassle-free lifestyle of ebooks. > > My one caveat is that I buy from Barnes & Noble because they use EPUB > and though they DRM it, it is so trivially cracked using Calibre that > it's practically a non-issue. That means I get to 'keep' my ebooks in > an open, standard, published format. I refuse to deal with the more > popular Kindle and its AZW format (MOBI + other stuff) because it's less > open. > > That means as Amazon slowly wins over the market and B&N is slowly > sidelined, I am disappointed. Calibre handles MOBI and AZW just fine. > > There are still a couple of bricks-and-mortar bookstores I visit, but > they're struggling and all hanging on only because they've specialized > in something off-beat. But I'd love if you could come in, browse, drink > coffee, chat with the proprietor - who knows and loves books - and then > take your purchases via some digital mechanism. We're not there yet, > and maybe never will be, but it certainly seems like a way of avoiding > the currently inevitable monopoly provider model, which is anathema to > the economies of small towns. > We just had a new one open in town, but I guess they're now a chain since this is their second store ;-) That makes at least two bookstores here, plus a B&N at the mall. -- Pete
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