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Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic

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  Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2014-10-22 10:59 +0000
    Re: Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-10-22 14:49 +0300
      Re: Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-10-22 12:57 +0100
        Re: Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2014-10-22 13:36 +0100
      Re: Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-10-22 20:50 +0200
        Re: Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic "Dirk T. Verbeek" <dverbeek@xs4all.nl> - 2014-10-23 23:14 +0100
        Re: Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2014-10-24 21:42 +0100
          Re: Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-10-25 00:00 +0300
          Re: Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic polygonum <rmoudndgers@vrod.co.uk> - 2014-10-24 22:08 +0100
    Re: Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2014-11-01 01:07 +0000

#5404 — Hungary plans to impose new tax on Internet traffic

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/22/uk-hungary-internet-tax-idUKKCN0IB0RI20141022

   Hungary's government plans to levy a new tax on Internet data transfers,
   according to the draft 2015 tax bill submitted to parliament late on
   Tuesday, which could hit Internet providers and the country's
   telecommunications companies.

   The draft tax code contains a provision for Internet providers to pay
   150 forints (60 US cents) in tax per gigabyte of data traffic, but would
   also allow companies to offset corporate income tax against the Internet
   tax.

   ...

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#5406

Rich <rich@example.invalid>:

> http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/22/uk-hungary-internet-tax-idUKKCN0IB0RI20141022
>
>    Hungary's government plans to levy a new tax on Internet data
>    transfers, according to the draft 2015 tax bill submitted to
>    parliament late on Tuesday, which could hit Internet providers and
>    the country's telecommunications companies.
>
>    The draft tax code contains a provision for Internet providers to
>    pay 150 forints (60 US cents) in tax per gigabyte of data traffic,
>    but would also allow companies to offset corporate income tax
>    against the Internet tax.

The first rule of taxation: tax those who can't evade it. The rule has
been in force ever since the bandits stopped killing the merchants along
caravan routes.

The pricing is pretty steep, though. Shipping physical hard disks (and
allowing the recipient to keep the disk) might be more cost effective
than using the Internet. Also, Netflix might want to dust up their old
business model in Hungary.


Marko

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#5407

In article <87oat4wci6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net>, Marko Rauhamaa
<marko@pacujo.net> wrote:

> Rich <rich@example.invalid>:
> 
> >
> > http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/22/uk-hungary-internet-tax-idUKKCN0IB0
> > RI20141022
> >
> >    Hungary's government plans to levy a new tax on Internet data
> >    transfers, according to the draft 2015 tax bill submitted to
> >    parliament late on Tuesday, which could hit Internet providers and
> >    the country's telecommunications companies.
> >
> >    The draft tax code contains a provision for Internet providers to
> >    pay 150 forints (60 US cents) in tax per gigabyte of data traffic,
> >    but would also allow companies to offset corporate income tax
> >    against the Internet tax.
> 
> The first rule of taxation: tax those who can't evade it. The rule has
> been in force ever since the bandits stopped killing the merchants along
> caravan routes.
> 
> The pricing is pretty steep, though. Shipping physical hard disks (and
> allowing the recipient to keep the disk) might be more cost effective
> than using the Internet.

How's that going to work for web access and email?

> Also, Netflix might want to dust up their old business model in Hungary.

Hows this going to work for outfits that route traffic *through*
Hungary? Suppose your network includes a circuit from Bratislava to
Bucharest via Budapest, eh? In Budapest you have a router that serves
your Hungarian customers. You gonna have the transit traffic taxed? I
would have thought that would be illegal under EU rules.

-- 
"Once you adopt the unix paradigm, the variants cease to be a problem - you
bitch, of course, but that's because bitching is fun, unlike M$ OS's, where 
bitching is required to keep your head from exploding." - S Stremler in afc

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#5408

Tim Streater wrote:

> Rich <rich@example.invalid>:
>
>> http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/22/uk-hungary-internet-tax-idUKKCN0IB0
>> RI20141022
>>
>>     The draft tax code contains a provision for Internet providers to
>>     pay 150 forints (60 US cents) in tax per gigabyte of data traffic,
>
> Hows this going to work for outfits that route traffic *through*
> Hungary?

Make it a value added internet tax, so you subtract your input bytes 
from your output bytes, other companies can then sell compression as a 
service, Amazon's glacier service can pay *you* to store your archives, 
etc ...

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#5413

On 2014-10-22, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
> Rich <rich@example.invalid>:
>
>> http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/22/uk-hungary-internet-tax-idUKKCN0IB0RI20141022
>>
>>    Hungary's government plans to levy a new tax on Internet data
>>    transfers, according to the draft 2015 tax bill submitted to
>>    parliament late on Tuesday, which could hit Internet providers and
>>    the country's telecommunications companies.
>>
>>    The draft tax code contains a provision for Internet providers to
>>    pay 150 forints (60 US cents) in tax per gigabyte of data traffic,
>>    but would also allow companies to offset corporate income tax
>>    against the Internet tax.
>
> The first rule of taxation: tax those who can't evade it. The rule has
> been in force ever since the bandits stopped killing the merchants along
> caravan routes.
>
> The pricing is pretty steep, though. Shipping physical hard disks (and
> allowing the recipient to keep the disk) might be more cost effective
> than using the Internet. Also, Netflix might want to dust up their old
> business model in Hungary.

Hmm, let's assume that they pass that cost onto customers at 1 USD a
gigabyte (ISP margin, VAT). That would mean that this last weekend when I
downloaded Mavericks once and Yosemite twice it would have cost me at
least 15 bucks.

And that's before I started downloading apps, several of which were 1
gigabyte or more.  Add some streaming radio, security updates for my
Linux etc and at least 20 bucks over the weekend.  It mounts up.

-- 
Anyone who thinks editors are not needed for writting has never written.

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#5423

Op 22/10/14 om 19:50 schreef Paul Sture:
> On 2014-10-22, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:
>> Rich <rich@example.invalid>:
>>
>>> http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/22/uk-hungary-internet-tax-idUKKCN0IB0RI20141022
>>>
>>>     Hungary's government plans to levy a new tax on Internet data
>>>     transfers, according to the draft 2015 tax bill submitted to
>>>     parliament late on Tuesday, which could hit Internet providers and
>>>     the country's telecommunications companies.
>>>
>>>     The draft tax code contains a provision for Internet providers to
>>>     pay 150 forints (60 US cents) in tax per gigabyte of data traffic,
>>>     but would also allow companies to offset corporate income tax
>>>     against the Internet tax.
>>
>> The first rule of taxation: tax those who can't evade it. The rule has
>> been in force ever since the bandits stopped killing the merchants along
>> caravan routes.
>>
>> The pricing is pretty steep, though. Shipping physical hard disks (and
>> allowing the recipient to keep the disk) might be more cost effective
>> than using the Internet. Also, Netflix might want to dust up their old
>> business model in Hungary.
>
> Hmm, let's assume that they pass that cost onto customers at 1 USD a
> gigabyte (ISP margin, VAT). That would mean that this last weekend when I
> downloaded Mavericks once and Yosemite twice it would have cost me at
> least 15 bucks.
>
> And that's before I started downloading apps, several of which were 1
> gigabyte or more.  Add some streaming radio, security updates for my
> Linux etc and at least 20 bucks over the weekend.  It mounts up.
>
The law also forbids recharging to the customers, it has to be 
subtracted form normal corporate tax...
This way they want to force the main ISP T-Mobile to pay more tax or 
preferably shut shop.

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#5430

"Paul Sture" <nospam@sture.ch> wrote in message 
news:hsalhb-7fe1.ln1@news.chingola.ch...
> On 2014-10-22, Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> wrote:

>> The pricing is pretty steep, though. Shipping physical hard disks (and
>> allowing the recipient to keep the disk) might be more cost effective
>> than using the Internet. Also, Netflix might want to dust up their old
>> business model in Hungary.
>
> Hmm, let's assume that they pass that cost onto customers at 1 USD a
> gigabyte (ISP margin, VAT). That would mean that this last weekend when I
> downloaded Mavericks once and Yosemite twice it would have cost me at
> least 15 bucks.

> And that's before I started downloading apps, several of which were 1
> gigabyte or more.

>  Add some streaming radio, security updates for my
> Linux etc and at least 20 bucks over the weekend.  It mounts up.

How can an app be 1GB in size? For actual code and ordinary data, 1GB is a 
huge, and $1 a gigabyte would be cheap (how much would it have cost to ship 
700 1.44MB floppies?)

But when you start looking at video (something like 1GB per hour or more for 
higher quality) then $1 is expensive!

The tax doesn't differentiate between different kinds of data, or take 
account of the actual /value/ of a particular 1GB block of data.

It's also unfair in that people usually have no say in how bloated an 
application is going to be. But if such a tax forces people to do something 
about bloat, rather than treat storage and bandwidth as some unlimited, free 
resource, then it might be a good thing.

-- 
Bartc 

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#5432

"BartC" <bc@freeuk.com>:

> The tax doesn't differentiate between different kinds of data, or take
> account of the actual /value/ of a particular 1GB block of data.

Well, you're right, it does have that going for it. I wish bit
discrimination came to an end and, in fact, were made illegal.


Marko

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#5433

On 24/10/2014 21:42, BartC wrote:
> How can an app be 1GB in size?

Have you not had the pleasure of updating Windows 8 to 8.1? Can't 
remember of that is 3.6 or 3.9 GB but somewhere round that.

(Sure we can argue or discuss what constitutes an app, but it's not as 
if that update is a film, hours of music, or other media.)

-- 
Rod

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#5485

Rich wrote:

> http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/22/uk-hungary-internet-tax-idUKKCN0IB0RI20141022
>
>     Hungary's government plans to levy a new tax on Internet data transfers,

And buried ...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/31/hungary-prime-minister-viktor-orban-scraps-draft-internet-tax-law

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