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Slashcott enters second week (?!)

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  Slashcott enters second week (?!) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-16 20:59 +0000
    Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Koen Lefever <koen.lefever@gmail.com> - 2014-02-16 15:57 -0800
      Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-17 09:21 +0100
      Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-17 09:36 +0000
        Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-17 05:01 +0501
          Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-17 13:35 +0000
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-17 12:26 +1226
          Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-17 18:16 +0100
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? invis <invis@invis.net> - 2014-02-17 17:30 +0000
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? cykros@devio.us - 2014-02-17 22:50 +0000
        Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Lance Orner <lance@orner.invalid.net> - 2014-02-17 09:45 -0800
          Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) RS Wood <rswood@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-17 19:54 +0000
    Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Oregonian Haruspex <bob_davis_retired@yahoo.com> - 2014-02-17 00:00 -0800
    Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-17 10:06 -0500
      Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-17 16:22 +0000
        Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) wjwlsn <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-17 16:28 +0000
          Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) cykros@devio.us - 2014-02-17 23:02 +0000
          Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-18 00:34 +0100
            Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Johannes Grassler <jgr-usenet@btw23.de> - 2014-02-18 23:45 +0000
        Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-17 17:43 +0000
          Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-02-18 01:55 +0200
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-18 07:37 +0100
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? dialmove <dialmove@gmail.com> - 2014-02-18 13:07 +0000
                Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? dialmove <dialmove@gmail.com> - 2014-02-18 13:16 +0000
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-18 08:02 +0802
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "q.kontinuum" <achsis_of_elvis@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-02-18 22:51 +0100
                    Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-19 01:56 +0156
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Lance Orner <lance@orner.invalid.net> - 2014-02-18 19:47 -0800
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-02-19 08:58 +0200
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-19 01:36 +0136
          Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? 2phar <none@example.com> - 2014-02-18 00:08 +0000
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-18 07:12 +0000
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Koen Lefever <koen.lefever@gmail.com> - 2014-02-18 05:41 -0800
                Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-18 20:24 +0000
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-02-21 17:16 +0000
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-02-26 12:33 -0500
                Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-26 18:31 +0000
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-26 21:07 +0000
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "Andy K." <andy.k466@gmail.com> - 2014-03-02 17:52 +0100
                    Posting to other tech groups, flag to comp.misc RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-02 19:56 +0000
                      Re: Posting to other tech groups, flag to comp.misc Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2014-03-02 14:15 -0600
                        Re: Posting to other tech groups, flag to comp.misc Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-02 23:47 +0000
                      Re: Posting to other tech groups, flag to comp.misc Stephen Thomas Cole <usenet@stephenthomascole.com> - 2014-03-02 20:46 +0000
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-02 23:24 -0500
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-19 01:47 +0147
          Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-02-26 12:31 -0500
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-02-26 14:07 -0600
            Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "wjwlsn" <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-02-26 14:30 -0600
              Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-02 23:38 -0500
                Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "wjwlsn" <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-03-03 00:54 -0600
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2014-03-03 07:31 +0000
                    Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-03-03 09:46 +0200
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2014-03-03 08:02 +0000
                    Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "tdk" <forum.tdk@squte.com> - 2014-03-03 07:55 -0600
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2014-03-03 14:22 +0000
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be.invalid> - 2014-03-03 17:31 +0100
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-03 17:13 +0000
                        Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-03 19:55 +0000
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2014-03-03 22:05 +0000
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Bjoern Hoehrmann <bjoern@hoehrmann.de> - 2014-03-04 14:06 +0100
                    Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? "wjwlsn" <ibillwilson@gmail.com> - 2014-03-03 09:43 -0600
                      Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2014-03-03 21:11 +0000
                Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-03 13:19 +0000
                  Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-03 13:55 +0000
                    Re: Slashcott enters second week  ? RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-03 14:21 +0000
        Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) "Elizabeth T. Knuth" <eknuth@csbsju.edu> - 2014-02-22 13:57 -0600
        Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Peter Percival <peterxpercival@hotmail.com> - 2014-02-22 20:12 +0000
    Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-02-20 10:15 +0000
      Re: Slashcott enters second week (?!) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-02-20 12:25 +0200

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#1195 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

> wjwlsn wrote: 
>> you're probably going to complain whenever somebody does something you don't
>> like ... 
> Such as replying without any quoting so it's difficult to see the
> context of what they're replying to, for example?

My apologies for that. I usually do include limited quoting for context,
but forgot in this instance. As tdk mentions in another post, I am using
his website (http://squte.com) to do most of my reading and posting, and
it does not quote by default... although it is easy enough to do that
manually, so this is no slight on him or squte. It was simply an over-
sight.

Regards,
Bill
-- 
I drive a '74 AMC Hornet in my dreams, and I like cheese.
View this thread at http://squte.com/node/4459#comment-14685

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#1220 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

wjwlsn wrote:

> I am using his website (http://squte.com) to do most of my reading
> and posting, and it does not quote by default.

Ah, I saw the @gmail and assumed it was because not quoting at all was 
easier than fighting with google groups' buggered-up quoting.

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#1186 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 23:38:01 -0500
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
> Why should I suddenly see a message in some newsgroup I've read for twenty 
> years that's actually coming from here, via crossposting?  I don't care 
> about "community" here, I care about that other newsgroup being viable 
> by having participants.  Crossposting may cause traffic, but it 
> doesn't generally cause people to move to the other newsgroup. It's tit 
> for tat, if you are hyping "community" here, then don't violate 
> 'community" there.   What value can you bring that actually requires 
> crossposting?  I can see it workig in favor of this newsgroup, bring in 
> traffic, bring in more participants via the crossposting, but why can't it 
> be the other way, you come and participate where the discussion actually 
> is?

To my surprise, I'm with Michael on this one.  The comp.emacs group for
example - there is a sort of regular crew over there, and the
discussions take a certain format.  Suddenly, some bozo like me posts a
"ten reasons I love emacs" post to comp.misc and crossposts it to
comp.emacs.  That's not probably going to be appreciated over there,
since they're usually discussing more technical things on that list and
aren't going to get excited about ten reasons I love emacs.

On the other hand, some interesting, tech article pops up about some
subject that would be interesting to the folks at comp.emacs.  OK, I
crosspost it to comp.misc and comp.emacs and the comp.misc folks
benefit from the info provided by the users of comp.emacs, and the
comp.emacs people hopefully benefit too.

The point is crossposting has to be done carefully, and I think that's
reasonable, and certainly the way I'd approach it.  It's not about
poaching other Usenetters to come chat over here; it's about getting
the right people involved so the discussion remains high quality.

On the other hand, Michael, for what it's worth, I think you're
over-estimating the sense of this "community" considering itself some
insular and inviolable club.  I think we're mostly just glad to have
found a bunch of other people who all prefer Usenet as a forum and a
justification to return to it after a hiatus elsewhere.  Stick around
and you'll see these same names starting to participate on other
groups too, as seems to be your preference.  

In the short term, this makes a convenient landing pad for
people returning for the first time - a group with a good signal/noise
ratio.  Imagine some oldie who hasn't touched Usenet in a while decides
to come back and lands at alt.24hourhelpdesk or equivalent?  It's a
cesspool of name calling and circle jerking.  Oldie shuts down SLRN and
decides Usenet is lost.  There's benefit in the folks now enjoying
comp.misc after all, and Usenetters everywhere stand to benefit from
this burst of interest and participation.

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#1188 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

In article <20140303131959.6e51af55.rsw@therandymon.com>, RS Wood
<rsw@therandymon.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Mar 2014 23:38:01 -0500
> Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote:
> > Why should I suddenly see a message in some newsgroup I've read for twenty 
> > years that's actually coming from here, via crossposting?  I don't care 
> > about "community" here, I care about that other newsgroup being viable 
> > by having participants.  Crossposting may cause traffic, but it 
> > doesn't generally cause people to move to the other newsgroup. It's tit 
> > for tat, if you are hyping "community" here, then don't violate 
> > 'community" there.   What value can you bring that actually requires 
> > crossposting?  I can see it workig in favor of this newsgroup, bring in 
> > traffic, bring in more participants via the crossposting, but why can't it 
> > be the other way, you come and participate where the discussion actually 
> > is?
> 
> To my surprise, I'm with Michael on this one.  The comp.emacs group for
> example - there is a sort of regular crew over there, and the
> discussions take a certain format.  Suddenly, some bozo like me posts a
> "ten reasons I love emacs" post to comp.misc and crossposts it to
> comp.emacs.  That's not probably going to be appreciated over there,
> since they're usually discussing more technical things on that list and
> aren't going to get excited about ten reasons I love emacs.
> 
> On the other hand, some interesting, tech article pops up about some
> subject that would be interesting to the folks at comp.emacs.  OK, I
> crosspost it to comp.misc and comp.emacs and the comp.misc folks
> benefit from the info provided by the users of comp.emacs, and the
> comp.emacs people hopefully benefit too.

Why bother posting it at comp.misc? If I were interested in emacs I'd
be subscribed to comp.emacs. All you've done so far, IMO, is spam
comp.misc with a large number of uninteresting articles.

I'd have said that a more interesting comp.misc topic is a discussion
going on at the moment on the SQLite users mailing list: there is a
function called sync() that programmers are supposed to call which
guarantees that any pending I/O they have has completed. But disks lie,
and OSes lie, so often enough sync() is a no-op. It's worse if you're
running a VM that's hosted by someone. Could be that all your disk
writes get batched up and only written to disk every five minutes.

Now most of the above I didn't know, but I can see that's it's useful
and possibly important to know about. But which comp.xxx group should I
be following to pick stuff like this up? SQLite? Databases? OSes?
Hardware and disks? SSDs? Hosting? VMs?

I hope I'm making the point.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#1190 — Re: Slashcott enters second week ?

> Now most of the above I didn't know, but I can see that's it's useful
> and possibly important to know about. But which comp.xxx group should I
> be following to pick stuff like this up? SQLite? Databases? OSes?
> Hardware and disks? SSDs? Hosting? VMs?
> 
> I hope I'm making the point.

Oh, you're making the point, believe me.  Several, in fact.

1. Your contributions to this group to date have been on a thread about
extraditing a British hacker.  I happen to find that subject
uninteresting.  But rather than bitch to you about it, I chose simply
not to participate.  You've done the same thing, not following-up to
posts that don't interest you.  So the first point is "You can't
please everyone in a forum."  Nothing new there, either on Usenet, in
web forums, or anywhere else.  In fact, I'd say the system is working.

2. You have posted no articles whatsoever, but you feel at ease to
complain about mine.  So the second point is "As usual, it's easier to
bitch and moan about something than to make a positive contribution."
Nothing new there either.  I wonder how many Slashdotters wailing "this
article sux" actually also submitted articles to the Firehose.

3. Your comment about "if I were interested in comp.emacs I'd be
subscribed to comp.emacs" brings up a third point: that Usenet's
fragmented newsgroup structure is at once a benefit and a weakness.  I
like mutt, vim, LaTeX, and discussing bad governance, so I'm subscribed
to comp.editors, comp.mail.mutt, comp.text.tex, and the dictator.*
hierarchy.  But I'm also interested in being exposed to new things.
That's what made /. interesting to me back in the day, and reading it
led me to discover lots of new things.  Specific, pigeon-holed groups
are valuable.  But generalist groups are valuable in a different way.
This happens to be both a generalist group and a place to put things
that don't fit anywhere else.  It's a lot harder knowing how to find
interesting new subjects on usenet when there are 20,000+ groups and
most of them are filled with rubbish.  I'd never once used comp.misc or
m.n.id. before this month, though I've been on Usenet since the 90s at
least.

For what it's worth, the sync() discussion is probably interesting to
some, but I suppose had it been posted to a site like Slashdot, it
would not have been interesting to everyone.

4. Finally, you and several others have inadvertently reminded me of
something that made Usenet  annoying in the '90s, annoying in the '00s,
and annoying today: spending more time discussing how to properly use
Usenet, than actually using it.  In early February I said something
like "I look forward to bitching about proper hardwrapping, top
posting, and cross-posting!"  I was joking of course, but that's about
the way it's turned out two weeks later.  How terribly boring.

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#726

On Mon, 17 Feb 2014 16:22:03 -04-59 (UTC), wjwlsn wrote,

> Another week of Slashcott may well drive the last nail into the coffin.

I think you are too optimistic. Or is that pessimistic? The boycott wasn't 
as big as it might have been, because some readers were convinced that 
timothy's "We're listening" message was sincere and therefore Dice deserved 
a reprieve. Then, too, the "second week" of the Slashcott was not 
well-publicized.

> SoylentNews is actually starting to look promising, 

I agree with you on that. Unfortunately, it is a black box, with no 
information on what the site is about, why it exists, or how to help.

> and we already have this place.


-- 
Elizabeth T. Knuth
http://www.users.csbsju.edu/~eknuth/
Slashdot Beta delenda est!

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#727

wjwlsn wrote:

> starting to look promising, and we already have this place.

That sounds a bit proprietorial.


-- 
Madam Life's a piece in bloom,
Death goes dogging everywhere:
She's the tenant of the room,
He's the ruffian on the stair.

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#606

RS Wood wrote:
> I just had a look at the altslashdot.org website, where I learned
>
> 1. There is now a note requesting we maintain the boycott of Slashdot
> through another week.  That's almost certainly because they don't have
> the soylentnews website up and running, and it seems some showstopper
> bugs remain.
>
> 2. There are some significant changes being made to the moderation
> system, but I didn't take enough time to figure out in detail what they
> entail.
>
> 3. The key actors seem to have relented to a more community-led model
> for things like moderation.
>
> Not sure what it all means.  Meanwhile, I'm not sure I care, since I'm
> happy here and get to compose my posts in Vim  :)

For what it's worth, I went back to /. to post on a couple articles, and 
was surprised to see a surprising number of continued posts promoting 
Soylent and complaining about the Beta.  Thought it would have quieted 
down by now.

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#607

RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com>:

> For what it's worth, I went back to /. to post on a couple articles,
> and was surprised to see a surprising number of continued posts
> promoting Soylent and complaining about the Beta. Thought it would
> have quieted down by now.

Should we ask the US, EU and Russia to mediate before things turn ugly?


Marko

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