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Groups > comp.misc > #1954

Re: ebooks

From "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers, comp.misc
Subject Re: ebooks
Date 2014-03-25 07:28 +1100
Message-ID <bpbit8Fi9odU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (1 earlier) <lgmiot$btr$1@solani.org> <op.xc6b4msso4et73@dell3100> <slrnlitso1.23e.catwheezel@ID-107770.user.individual.net> <slrnliv440.4s1.g.kreme@amelia.local> <slrnlj02jc.1j0.catwheezel@ID-107770.user.individual.net>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote
> Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote
>> Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> wrote

>>> The biggest problem with ebooks is navigation; you can't slide a
>>> finger-nail between pages at roughly the right distance between
>>> front and back and then flick pages to find what you want,

>> I can. Not PHYSICAL pages, but yes, I slide my finger along the bottom
>> until I'm say, half way in, then tap right/left to flip pages to the
>> right page.

>>> If I'm going to pay for a book, I want a hard copy; a proper
>>> paperback at least.  I am repelled by the idea of paying money for a
>>> licence to possess one digital copy which is not transferable to
>>> anyone else, and possibly not even to another device owned by me, and
>>> which can be withdrawn at any time the provider sees fit.  Books are
>>> for sharing and passing on and going back to; that's perfectly
>>> possible with ebooks, but not while the publishers try to impose
>>> 'digital rights management' and 'licenses' and other nonsense making
>>> such activities 'shady' or 'illegal'.

>> Fortunately, stripping the DRM from ebooks is trivial.

> But doing so contravenes the 'licence' or 'end user licensing agreement'
> to which you have to agree before you can access the original file.

I don’t care. I believe that I have the same rights with an ebook
as I have with a physical book and that there is no licence at all
involved legally or morally. And I have never agreed to anything
whatever they claim.

> The publishers will compare this with a thief getting
> into a money-box by picking a simple lock;

I don’t care what they compare it with.

> what matters is that it was done, not how easy it might have been.
> If the licence to read an ebook is found to be enforceable in law

It won't be in my country.

> then the publishers will start going after people
> who they believe have breached that licence

But they will have no way of working out if I have done that.

> - just as the recorded music industry have been chasing people
> who make unencrypted copies of CDs and MPEGs available.

So I won't make the ebooks available, I will just remove the
DRM so I can do what I believe I have the legal and moral
right to do, put it on anything I choose to put it on, give it to
anyone I choose to give it to when I have no further use for it
myself etc, sell it at a garage/yard sale if I choose to do that too.

> With printed books and pressed gramophone records, it's
> easy for the industry to enforce the idea that if you want
> another copy, you have to get it from them and pay for it.

It isnt actually, its trivially easy to copy a book or gramophone records.

> They can't control what you do with that copy,
> but they can be reasonably certain that any copies
> in circulation have been made by them and paid for.

> Digital media have fundamentally changed those facts.

That's their problem, not mine.

> If I want to share a book that I'm reading on my tablet, without
> sharing the device and all its other content, I can transmit it to my
> friend's device by cable or wifi or bluetooth or infrared or some
> other means - but that creates a duplicate of the original.  Even
> if publishers try to include a program that will erase the original
> if it detects a copy being made, any code that can be invented
> can be countered by other code so such attempts at 'protection'
> are ultimately futile.

Again, that's their problem, not mine.

> This is fine for end users, at least in the short term,
> but is very bad news for the content providers whose
> income depends on getting paid per copy created.

Again, that's their problem, not mine.

> It's bad enough for it to make some businesses unsustainable;
> as already noted in this thread, actual bricks and mortar
> book shops (and record shops too) are becoming rarer.

And ebook distribution much better. We have even seen some
choose to hand out free legal copys to anyone who wants them
for a while. That isnt as practical with dead tree books.

> Publishers too face a real threat to their long term survival,

I doubt it with ebooks. The detail with change, just like
it did when we started to be able to record music if we
wanted to, but that did not see the demise of music.

> and that in turn means that writers will
> lose that avenue of support and payment.

But we will still see some who are prepared
to pay for what they decide they want to have.

> Creative types are adaptable and will eventually
> find new ways of earning from their work,

And some have in fact found that offering free copys
of at least some of their work for a limited time does
see some decide that they like the work and are
prepared to pay for more of their work. Something
that is much more practical with ebooks than with
dead tree books.

> but the intermediaries who depend on both the creators
> and the consumers co-operating with them, will have to
> work out some new way to survive, otherwise they will vanish.

Yes, quite a few newspapers have vanished.

> We can expect them to fight very hard, and
> possibly 'dirty', to preserve themselves.

And we are able to strip the DRM when we choose to do that.

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Thread

Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-23 12:06 +0000
  Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-23 12:11 +0000
    Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-23 14:43 +0000
      Re: ebooks Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-03-23 16:14 +0000
      Re: ebooks root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2014-03-23 18:09 +0000
        Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-23 19:21 +0000
        Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-23 20:34 +0000
          Re: ebooks Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2014-06-13 14:14 -0400
            Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-13 21:44 +0100
            Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-13 16:53 -0400
              Re: ebooks Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2014-06-14 08:37 +0100
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-14 18:34 -0400
                Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-06-15 10:40 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-15 12:05 +0100
                Re: ebooks Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-06-15 11:20 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-15 12:37 +0100
                Re: ebooks root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2014-06-15 17:48 +0000
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-15 15:59 -0400
                Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-16 06:30 +1000
                Re: ebooks Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2014-06-16 04:04 -0500
                Re: ebooks Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-16 11:44 +0000
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-16 10:32 -0400
                Re: ebooks Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2014-06-16 10:43 -0500
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-16 13:13 -0400
                Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-17 06:45 +1000
                Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-17 06:36 +1000
                Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-06-15 22:43 +0000
                Re: ebooks Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-06-15 23:26 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-06-16 22:01 +0100
              Re: ebooks "Oeter Johns" <oj19854@nospam.com> - 2014-06-15 06:27 +1000
      Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-23 19:09 +0000
      Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-24 01:55 +0000
        Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 10:35 +0000
          Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-24 13:01 -0400
            Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-24 17:15 +0100
          Re: ebooks Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2014-03-24 15:07 +0000
            Re: ebooks Rich <rich@example.com> - 2014-03-24 17:13 +0000
              Re: ebooks Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-03-24 13:07 -0500
                Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-24 13:28 -0500
                Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-24 21:48 +0100
                Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 22:57 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Lanto J." <lantoj78@gmail.com> - 2014-03-25 08:14 +1100
                Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 00:01 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Lanto J." <lantoj78@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 07:17 +1100
                Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 23:44 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Lanto J." <lantoj78@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 12:01 +1100
                Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-26 13:36 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-26 20:08 +0000
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-24 14:48 -0400
                Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-25 18:13 -0400
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 01:20 -0400
                Re: ebooks Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2014-03-25 05:49 +0000
                Re: ebooks Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-03-25 07:06 +0000
                Re: ebooks Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-03-25 08:19 -0500
                Re: ebooks Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-03-25 09:40 -0400
                Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-26 11:14 +1100
                Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-25 15:42 -0400
                Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-25 11:47 -0500
                Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-25 19:25 -0400
                Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-26 12:19 -0400
                Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 08:25 -0500
                Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-26 16:01 -0400
                Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-26 20:38 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-27 08:19 +1100
                Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 15:58 -0500
                Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-27 06:28 -0400
                Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-26 22:03 +0100
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 00:46 -0400
                Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-26 15:01 -0500
                Re: ebooks scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-03-26 20:57 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2014-03-27 13:23 +0000
                Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-27 17:48 +0100
                Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-27 08:26 -0500
                Re: ebooks greymausg <maus@mail.com> - 2014-03-27 14:55 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-27 10:05 -0500
                Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-27 11:55 -0500
                Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-27 14:25 -0500
                Re: ebooks scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-03-27 20:44 +0000
                Re: ebooks Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-28 01:38 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-27 22:37 -0500
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 23:52 -0400
                Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-28 16:07 +1100
                Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-28 10:52 -0500
                Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-28 11:57 -0500
                Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-28 14:41 -0500
                Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-28 21:27 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2014-03-28 17:02 -0500
                Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-28 23:46 -0400
                Re: ebooks Philip Shaw <jnufcvyvuc@tznvy.pbz> - 2014-04-02 01:32 +0000
                Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-04-02 14:28 +0000
                Re: ebooks Philip Shaw <jnufcvyvuc@tznvy.pbz> - 2014-04-07 05:32 +0000
                Re: ebooks "John" <j@j.j> - 2014-04-17 16:36 -0700
                Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-04-02 07:31 -0800
                Re: ebooks scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2014-03-26 13:38 +0000
                Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 11:14 -0500
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 00:56 -0400
                Re: ebooks Clark G <clarkm.geimsler@ieeemmm.org> - 2014-03-27 16:52 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-27 14:03 -0500
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 23:07 -0400
                Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-27 21:44 +0100
                Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-26 13:51 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-26 09:22 -0800
                Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-26 13:54 -0500
                Re: ebooks davidmylastname@acm.org (David Griffith) - 2014-03-27 03:41 +0000
                Re: ebooks Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-03-27 07:36 -0400
                Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-28 03:40 -0400
                Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-27 17:59 +0100
                Re: ebooks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-03-26 15:38 -0700
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-26 22:09 -0400
                Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-27 13:55 -0500
                Re: ebooks Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-28 02:27 +0000
                Re: ebooks cb@bobby.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2014-03-28 10:42 +0000
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 23:12 -0400
                Re: ebooks Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-03-28 23:17 -0700
                Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-26 16:06 -0400
                Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-26 09:19 -0800
                Re: ebooks "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-26 13:50 -0500
                Re: ebooks Hils <hils@saynotospam.net> - 2014-03-26 20:00 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-26 13:30 -0800
                Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-26 15:51 -0500
                Re: ebooks Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-03-26 13:09 -0600
                Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-26 19:23 -0400
                Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-27 08:12 +1100
                Re: ebooks despen@verizon.net (Dan.Espen) - 2014-03-26 19:24 -0400
                Re: ebooks Johny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2014-03-26 23:40 +0000
                Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-27 06:36 -0400
                Knuth/TeX (was Re: ebooks) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-27 14:33 +0000
                Re: Knuth/TeX (was Re: ebooks) "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2014-03-27 14:01 -0500
                Re: ebooks rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2014-03-27 03:10 +0000
                Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-25 08:19 -0500
                Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-25 15:16 +0000
                Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 13:32 +0000
                Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-25 15:20 +0000
                Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-25 15:49 -0400
                Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-25 15:58 +0000
                Re: ebooks Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-03-27 01:46 -0400
                Re: ebooks "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2014-03-25 08:48 -0800
                Re: ebooks RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2014-03-25 21:20 +0000
                Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-26 07:31 +1100
                Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-25 08:42 -0400
              Re: ebooks Will Honea <whonea@whonea.net> - 2014-03-24 12:52 -0600
            Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-24 20:12 -0400
              Re: ebooks Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2014-03-24 15:54 -0500
              Re: ebooks Rob Myers <rob@robmyers.org> - 2014-03-24 22:19 +0000
            Re: ebooks "Slp" <slp0987@nospam.com> - 2014-03-25 07:54 +1100
          Re: ebooks scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2014-03-24 16:21 +0000
          Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-24 17:02 +0000
            Re: ebooks Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2014-03-24 12:21 -0500
            Re: ebooks Bob Eager <news0002@eager.cx> - 2014-03-24 19:50 +0000
              Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 22:48 +0000
                Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-24 23:42 +0000
                Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-25 15:07 +0000
                Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 23:40 +0000
                Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-26 21:57 +0100
                Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-28 13:58 +0000
                Re: ebooks Dag-Erling Smørgrav <des@des.no> - 2014-03-28 15:44 +0100
                Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 11:35 +1100
          Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-25 07:28 +1100
            Re: ebooks Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2014-03-24 22:31 +0000
              Re: ebooks Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-25 00:06 +0000
              Re: ebooks "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-03-26 07:06 +1100
          Re: ebooks Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> - 2014-03-24 10:25 -0400
      Re: ebooks Mike Sanders <mike@taco-shack.cow> - 2014-03-24 06:04 +0000
      Re: ebooks Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-26 13:17 +0100
  Re: ebooks Peter Flass <Peter_Flass@Yahoo.com> - 2014-03-23 19:23 -0400

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