Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time)

From	Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Subject	Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time)
Date	2014-11-22 16:18 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<87y4r348uf.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> (permalink)
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Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info>:

> You haven't given any good reason for objecting to calling Unicode
> strings by what they are. Maybe you think that it is an implementation
> detail, and that some version of Python might suddenly and without
> warning change to only supporting KOI8-R strings or GB2312 strings? If
> so, you are badly mistaken. The fact that Python strings are Unicode
> is not an implementation detail, it is part of the language semantics.

To me, repeating the word Unicode everywhere is giving the (in and of
itself impressive) standard too primary a status. While understanding
how Unicode, IEEE-754, 2's complement, mark-and-sweep etc work is very
useful and occasionally can be taken explicit advantage of, those really
are mundane techniques to implement abstractions.

Python's strings exist (primarily) so you can express utterances in a
human language, aka plain text. They don't exist to express Unicode code
points. That would be putting the cart before the horse.

> "Rectangular door" makes perfect sense, and in a world where there are
> dozens of legacy non-rectangular doors, it would be very sensible to
> specify the kind of door.

It makes sense, and yet, I've never heard anyone talk about rectangular
doors even though I use numerous doors every day. Why is it, then, that
people feel the constant need to add the "Unicode" epithet to Python's
strings, which -- according to its own specification -- are just
strings?


Marko

Thread

Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2014-11-20 09:51 -0700
  Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-20 20:56 +0200
    Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-21 10:49 +1100
      Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-21 08:36 +0200
        Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-21 18:02 +1100
          Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-21 09:14 +0200
            Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-21 18:29 +1100
              Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-21 10:16 +0200
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-21 19:24 +1100
        Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-11-21 08:03 -0800
          Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-21 18:36 +0200
            Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-22 03:52 +1100
            Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-22 15:38 +1100
              Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-22 08:40 +0200
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-23 00:50 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-23 01:17 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-22 16:18 +0200
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2014-11-22 09:44 -0500
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-22 16:56 +0200
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-22 07:44 -0800
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Rustom Mody <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2014-11-22 07:57 -0800
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-22 19:49 +0200
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-11-22 18:17 +0000
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-22 11:32 -0800
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-22 11:17 -0800
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-23 07:17 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-11-22 22:04 +0000
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-23 09:31 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-11-22 23:38 +0000
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-23 04:52 -0800
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) random832@fastmail.us - 2014-11-22 20:52 -0500
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-23 13:11 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) random832@fastmail.us - 2014-11-22 22:10 -0500
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-11-23 11:33 -0500
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-24 03:39 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) random832@fastmail.us - 2014-11-23 13:13 -0500
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2014-11-23 15:31 -0500
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-24 09:22 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-11-23 20:24 -0500
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) random832@fastmail.us - 2014-11-24 00:05 -0500
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2014-11-24 11:51 +1300
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-24 09:59 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-24 08:57 +0200
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-24 18:18 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-24 09:40 +0200
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-25 09:56 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-25 10:08 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2014-11-25 08:23 +0200
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-25 22:56 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-26 00:07 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-25 06:26 -0800
              Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) random832@fastmail.us - 2014-11-22 20:35 -0500
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-23 17:17 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-23 17:37 +1100
                Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) wxjmfauth@gmail.com - 2014-11-23 07:40 -0800
    Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-21 11:32 +1100
      Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-21 12:10 +1100
        Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2014-11-22 02:23 +1100
          Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-22 02:40 +1100
          Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2014-11-21 10:00 -0600
      Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) random832@fastmail.us - 2014-11-20 20:31 -0500
      Re: python 2.7 and unicode (one more time) Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2014-11-21 12:39 +1100

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