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using scripting languages to automate a browser

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  using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-10 01:04 -0700
    Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-10 10:03 +0100
    Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-10 10:49 +0100
      getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-10 19:58 -0700
        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages   to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-11 12:39 +0100
          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages   to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-11 09:29 -0500
            Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages     to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-11 17:23 +0100
              Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages     to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-11 14:13 -0500
                Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-11 22:29 +0100
                  Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-11 16:40 -0500
                    Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-11 22:23 -0700
                      Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-12 07:02 +0000
                      Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages         to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-12 09:38 +0100
                        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages         to automate a browser "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2013-02-12 07:54 -0600
                      Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-12 09:09 -0500
                        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-19 00:56 -0800
                          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-19 12:12 +0000
                          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-19 08:27 -0500
                            Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-19 17:08 -0800
                  Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2013-02-12 07:50 -0600
                    Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-12 14:28 +0000
                    Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting   languages       to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-12 15:29 +0100
                      Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting   languages       to automate a browser Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-17 08:48 +0100
                        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting   languages       to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-19 01:19 -0800
                          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting   languages       to automate a browser Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-19 11:43 +0100
        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Warren Post <warren@copaninvest.com> - 2013-02-11 07:40 -0600
          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-11 13:20 -0700
            Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages   to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-11 22:32 +0100
            Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Captain Paralytic <paul_lautman@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-12 02:12 -0800
            Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Warren Post <warren@copaninvest.com> - 2013-02-12 07:42 -0600
              Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-12 14:27 +0000
                Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-12 21:09 -0700
                  Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-13 06:14 -0500
                  Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Allodoxaphobia <knock_yourself_out@example.net> - 2013-02-13 19:35 +0000
                  Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-13 23:40 +0000
                    Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-13 23:48 -0700
                      Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Kim André Akerø <kimandre@nospambetadome.com> - 2013-02-14 17:15 +0100
                        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-19 01:27 -0800
                          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-19 11:44 +0100

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#8332 — using scripting languages to automate a browser

Hello newsgroup,

I've been trying to use perl to automate processes that aren't much more 
than a few GUI events that a person would do if he had a browser.

#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use autodie;
use utf8;
use WWW::Mechanize;

my $url    = 'http://translate.google.com/';
my $mech   = WWW::Mechanize->new;
my $result = $mech->get($url);
die "GET failedn" unless $result->is_success;


my $filename = 'content1.txt';
$mech->save_content($filename);


my @links = $mech->links();
print "tags\n";
print $_->tag()."\n" foreach @links;
print "URI\n";
print $_->URI()."\n" foreach @links;
print "text\n";
print $_->text()."\n" foreach @links;
print "forms\n";
my @forms = $mech->forms();
# print $_->text()."\n" foreach @forms;
$mech->current_form()

With the amount of difficulty that this has presented itself to be, I've 
started to wonder whether I'm not using a wrench to pound a nail.  What 
I'm trying to do in this instance is to click a button to turn the 
language, enter the text that I would have in a file, click translate, 
and capture the output.

Is this something that php can do in a way that involves less grief?

Thanks for your comment, and cheers.
-- 
Cal Dershowitz

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#8333

Am 10.02.2013 09:04, schrieb Cal Dershowitz:
> Hello newsgroup,
> 
> I've been trying to use perl to automate processes that aren't much more than a few
> GUI events that a person would do if he had a browser.
> 
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> use strict;
> use autodie;
> use utf8;
> use WWW::Mechanize;
> 
> my $url    = 'http://translate.google.com/';
--cut--

> print "URI\n";
> print $_->URI()."\n" foreach @links;
> print "text\n";
> print $_->text()."\n" foreach @links;
> print "forms\n";
> my @forms = $mech->forms();
> # print $_->text()."\n" foreach @forms;
> $mech->current_form()
> 
> With the amount of difficulty that this has presented itself to be, I've started to
> wonder whether I'm not using a wrench to pound a nail.  What I'm trying to do in this
> instance is to click a button to turn the language, enter the text that I would have
> in a file, click translate, and capture the output.
> 
> Is this something that php can do in a way that involves less grief?
> 
> Thanks for your comment, and cheers.

In PHP you would have to issue more or less the same commands/use the same functions.

I think the approach is wrong. Most probably there is a way to encode the whole query
in the url, or there is a API/Service that does what you want.

If the API does not exist, or is too expensive, you could either just provide the
translation link, or you must go through all the "grief", and again when the layout
changes.

/Str.

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#8334

Cal Dershowitz, 2013-02-10 09:04:

> Hello newsgroup,
> 
> I've been trying to use perl to automate processes that aren't much more
> than a few GUI events that a person would do if he had a browser.
> 
> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
> use strict;
> use autodie;
> use utf8;
> use WWW::Mechanize;
> 
> my $url    = 'http://translate.google.com/';
> my $mech   = WWW::Mechanize->new;
> my $result = $mech->get($url);
> die "GET failedn" unless $result->is_success;
[...]

> Is this something that php can do in a way that involves less grief?

I don't think so.

But if you need to use Google Translate as a service, see here:

<https://developers.google.com/translate/>

Well - the service is not for free. Therefore i doubt that using
<http://translate.google.com/> as a "service" through scripts is legal.


-- 
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

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#8336 — getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 02/10/2013 02:49 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> Cal Dershowitz, 2013-02-10 09:04:

[x-posted to alt.os.linux.ubuntu]


>> I've been trying to use perl to automate processes that aren't much more
>> than a few GUI events that a person would do if he had a browser.
>>
>> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
>> use strict;
>> use autodie;
>> use utf8;
>> use WWW::Mechanize;
>>
>> my $url    = 'http://translate.google.com/';
>> my $mech   = WWW::Mechanize->new;
>> my $result = $mech->get($url);
>> die "GET failedn" unless $result->is_success;
> [...]
>
>> Is this something that php can do in a way that involves less grief?
>
> I don't think so.
>
> But if you need to use Google Translate as a service, see here:
>
> <https://developers.google.com/translate/>
>
> Well - the service is not for free. Therefore i doubt that using
> <http://translate.google.com/> as a "service" through scripts is legal.
>
>

Thanks for your comments, Arno, I'm just trying to get used to websites 
from the point-of-view of machines.  I don't want this as a "service" 
that I would put on my guinea pig 1and1 website.  With all the reading I 
did, I do want to use php on my website now.

I think we're all in agreement that php is the wrong tool for what I 
wanted to do, but I've always wanted to have more-sophisticated content 
on my own site, in particular the ability to host video.

The tutorial I looked at wants me to install XAMPP.  Is that the best 
idea for getting a php development environment squared away given that this

$ uname -a
Linux fred-desktop 3.2.0-33-generic-pae #52-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 18 
16:39:21 UTC 2012 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux

is my platform?  As I look through synaptic for packages that match php, 
there might be 2 hundred.

Before I went ahead and fiddled with it, I thought I'd ask to see if 
someone has been around the block on this once, which is one more than 
me right now.
-- 
Cal

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#8338 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

Am 11.02.2013 03:58, schrieb Cal Dershowitz:
> On 02/10/2013 02:49 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Cal Dershowitz, 2013-02-10 09:04:
> 
> [x-posted to alt.os.linux.ubuntu]
> 
> 
>>> I've been trying to use perl to automate processes that aren't much more
>>> than a few GUI events that a person would do if he had a browser.
>>>
>>> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
>>> use strict;
>>> use autodie;
>>> use utf8;
>>> use WWW::Mechanize;
>>>
>>> my $url    = 'http://translate.google.com/';
>>> my $mech   = WWW::Mechanize->new;
>>> my $result = $mech->get($url);
>>> die "GET failedn" unless $result->is_success;
>> [...]
>>
>>> Is this something that php can do in a way that involves less grief?
>>
>> I don't think so.
>>
>> But if you need to use Google Translate as a service, see here:
>>
>> <https://developers.google.com/translate/>
>>
>> Well - the service is not for free. Therefore i doubt that using
>> <http://translate.google.com/> as a "service" through scripts is legal.
>>
>>
> 
> Thanks for your comments, Arno, I'm just trying to get used to websites from the
> point-of-view of machines.  I don't want this as a "service" that I would put on my
> guinea pig 1and1 website.  With all the reading I did, I do want to use php on my
> website now.
> 
> I think we're all in agreement that php is the wrong tool for what I wanted to do,
> but I've always wanted to have more-sophisticated content on my own site, in
> particular the ability to host video.
> 
> The tutorial I looked at wants me to install XAMPP.  Is that the best idea for
> getting a php development environment squared away given that this
> 
> $ uname -a
> Linux fred-desktop 3.2.0-33-generic-pae #52-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 18 16:39:21 UTC 2012
> i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
> 
> is my platform?  As I look through synaptic for packages that match php, there might
> be 2 hundred.
> 
> Before I went ahead and fiddled with it, I thought I'd ask to see if someone has been
> around the block on this once, which is one more than me right now.

Linux/Unix is the native platform for PHP development. Get a decent IDE with syntax
checking, set all encodings to utf-8, start your local web server and there you go.

/Str.

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#8340 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 2/11/2013 6:39 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
> Am 11.02.2013 03:58, schrieb Cal Dershowitz:
>> On 02/10/2013 02:49 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>>> Cal Dershowitz, 2013-02-10 09:04:
>>
>> [x-posted to alt.os.linux.ubuntu]
>>
>>
>>>> I've been trying to use perl to automate processes that aren't much more
>>>> than a few GUI events that a person would do if he had a browser.
>>>>
>>>> #!/usr/bin/perl -w
>>>> use strict;
>>>> use autodie;
>>>> use utf8;
>>>> use WWW::Mechanize;
>>>>
>>>> my $url    = 'http://translate.google.com/';
>>>> my $mech   = WWW::Mechanize->new;
>>>> my $result = $mech->get($url);
>>>> die "GET failedn" unless $result->is_success;
>>> [...]
>>>
>>>> Is this something that php can do in a way that involves less grief?
>>>
>>> I don't think so.
>>>
>>> But if you need to use Google Translate as a service, see here:
>>>
>>> <https://developers.google.com/translate/>
>>>
>>> Well - the service is not for free. Therefore i doubt that using
>>> <http://translate.google.com/> as a "service" through scripts is legal.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for your comments, Arno, I'm just trying to get used to websites from the
>> point-of-view of machines.  I don't want this as a "service" that I would put on my
>> guinea pig 1and1 website.  With all the reading I did, I do want to use php on my
>> website now.
>>
>> I think we're all in agreement that php is the wrong tool for what I wanted to do,
>> but I've always wanted to have more-sophisticated content on my own site, in
>> particular the ability to host video.
>>
>> The tutorial I looked at wants me to install XAMPP.  Is that the best idea for
>> getting a php development environment squared away given that this
>>
>> $ uname -a
>> Linux fred-desktop 3.2.0-33-generic-pae #52-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 18 16:39:21 UTC 2012
>> i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
>>
>> is my platform?  As I look through synaptic for packages that match php, there might
>> be 2 hundred.
>>
>> Before I went ahead and fiddled with it, I thought I'd ask to see if someone has been
>> around the block on this once, which is one more than me right now.
>
> Linux/Unix is the native platform for PHP development. Get a decent IDE with syntax
> checking, set all encodings to utf-8, start your local web server and there you go.
>
> /Str.
>

Incorrect.  Linux is not the "native platform for PHP development".  It 
is ONE platform for PHP development.  PHP runs fine on Windows, also. 
And there are good IDE's on Windows, also.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#8341 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

Am 11.02.2013 15:29, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
> On 2/11/2013 6:39 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>> Am 11.02.2013 03:58, schrieb Cal Dershowitz:
>>> On 02/10/2013 02:49 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
--
>>> The tutorial I looked at wants me to install XAMPP.  Is that the best idea for
>>> getting a php development environment squared away given that this
>>>
>>> $ uname -a
>>> Linux fred-desktop 3.2.0-33-generic-pae #52-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 18 16:39:21 UTC 2012
>>> i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
>>>
>>> is my platform?  As I look through synaptic for packages that match php, there might
>>> be 2 hundred.
>>>
>>> Before I went ahead and fiddled with it, I thought I'd ask to see if someone has been
>>> around the block on this once, which is one more than me right now.
>>
>> Linux/Unix is the native platform for PHP development. Get a decent IDE with syntax
>> checking, set all encodings to utf-8, start your local web server and there you go.
>>
>> /Str.
>>
> 
> Incorrect.  Linux is not the "native platform for PHP development".  It is ONE
> platform for PHP development.  PHP runs fine on Windows, also. And there are good
> IDE's on Windows, also.
> 

Unix/Linux is the native platform for web development, because the first web server
was on *nix, and it is still the primary platform (http://news.netcraft.com/).

/Str.

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#8342 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 2/11/2013 11:23 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
> Am 11.02.2013 15:29, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>> On 2/11/2013 6:39 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>> Am 11.02.2013 03:58, schrieb Cal Dershowitz:
>>>> On 02/10/2013 02:49 AM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> --
>>>> The tutorial I looked at wants me to install XAMPP.  Is that the best idea for
>>>> getting a php development environment squared away given that this
>>>>
>>>> $ uname -a
>>>> Linux fred-desktop 3.2.0-33-generic-pae #52-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 18 16:39:21 UTC 2012
>>>> i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
>>>>
>>>> is my platform?  As I look through synaptic for packages that match php, there might
>>>> be 2 hundred.
>>>>
>>>> Before I went ahead and fiddled with it, I thought I'd ask to see if someone has been
>>>> around the block on this once, which is one more than me right now.
>>>
>>> Linux/Unix is the native platform for PHP development. Get a decent IDE with syntax
>>> checking, set all encodings to utf-8, start your local web server and there you go.
>>>
>>> /Str.
>>>
>>
>> Incorrect.  Linux is not the "native platform for PHP development".  It is ONE
>> platform for PHP development.  PHP runs fine on Windows, also. And there are good
>> IDE's on Windows, also.
>>
>
> Unix/Linux is the native platform for web development, because the first web server
> was on *nix, and it is still the primary platform (http://news.netcraft.com/).
>
> /Str.
>

It doesn't matter if the first web server was on *nix, nor that it is 
still the primary platform for web development.  Linux is *not* the 
"native platform for PHP development".

In fact, I would almost bet there is more PHP *development* done on 
Windows, even though *deployment* is done on *nix.  Windows is, after 
all, the predominant system on the desktop (where most development is done).

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#8345 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

Am 11.02.2013 20:13, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
> On 2/11/2013 11:23 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>> Am 11.02.2013 15:29, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>
>>> Incorrect.  Linux is not the "native platform for PHP development".  It is ONE
>>> platform for PHP development.  PHP runs fine on Windows, also. And there are good
>>> IDE's on Windows, also.
>>>
>>
>> Unix/Linux is the native platform for web development, because the first web server
>> was on *nix, and it is still the primary platform (http://news.netcraft.com/).
>>
>> /Str.
>>
> 
> It doesn't matter if the first web server was on *nix, nor that it is still the
> primary platform for web development.  Linux is *not* the "native platform for PHP
> development".
> 
> In fact, I would almost bet there is more PHP *development* done on Windows, even
> though *deployment* is done on *nix.  Windows is, after all, the predominant system
> on the desktop (where most development is done).

yes, for the desktop, but not where most development is done.

Maybe I confound it with the question which desktop is best for *nix development, but
it just does not make sense develop for *nix on a MS Win desktop. You do not even
have a decent shell. MinGW and Cygwin are not THE REAL THING.

BTW I am not a MS hater, I had a Technet subscription with all MS operating systems
when I gave courses in MS Networking / Active Directory.
/Str.

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#8347 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 2/11/2013 4:29 PM, M. Strobel wrote:
> Am 11.02.2013 20:13, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>> On 2/11/2013 11:23 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>> Am 11.02.2013 15:29, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>>
>>>> Incorrect.  Linux is not the "native platform for PHP development".  It is ONE
>>>> platform for PHP development.  PHP runs fine on Windows, also. And there are good
>>>> IDE's on Windows, also.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Unix/Linux is the native platform for web development, because the first web server
>>> was on *nix, and it is still the primary platform (http://news.netcraft.com/).
>>>
>>> /Str.
>>>
>>
>> It doesn't matter if the first web server was on *nix, nor that it is still the
>> primary platform for web development.  Linux is *not* the "native platform for PHP
>> development".
>>
>> In fact, I would almost bet there is more PHP *development* done on Windows, even
>> though *deployment* is done on *nix.  Windows is, after all, the predominant system
>> on the desktop (where most development is done).
>
> yes, for the desktop, but not where most development is done.
>
> Maybe I confound it with the question which desktop is best for *nix development, but
> it just does not make sense develop for *nix on a MS Win desktop. You do not even
> have a decent shell. MinGW and Cygwin are not THE REAL THING.
>
> BTW I am not a MS hater, I had a Technet subscription with all MS operating systems
> when I gave courses in MS Networking / Active Directory.
> /Str.
>
>
>

Most development isn't done on a desktop?  Horse Hockey!  People don't 
develop on servers.  They may (and should) have development 
environments, but like most I've seen, those are done on the same 
desktop they write the code on.  Some may have a separate "server", but 
it generally isn't really a "server" - it's another desktop which 
happens to be running Apache or something similar.

It makes perfect sense to develop PHP scripts on a Windows desktop. 
There are some great IDEs available for Windows, and unless you need 
some rather esoteric *nix functions, the code is 100% portable.

I do my do my development here on Windows (because I need Windows for 
other things anyway) with Apache running on this system. Eclipse IDE 
runs great and I can edit the files right in the local web directory. 
When they are working like I want them to, I upload them to a test Linux 
server for final checks.  Then over to the live system.

I would suggest many people use a similar process (perhaps without the 
test Linux system - it's really not necessary but I like to be careful).


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#8349 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 02/11/2013 02:40 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 2/11/2013 4:29 PM, M. Strobel wrote:
>> Am 11.02.2013 20:13, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>> On 2/11/2013 11:23 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>>> Am 11.02.2013 15:29, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>>>
>>>>> Incorrect.  Linux is not the "native platform for PHP
>>>>> development".  It is ONE
>>>>> platform for PHP development.  PHP runs fine on Windows, also. And
>>>>> there are good
>>>>> IDE's on Windows, also.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unix/Linux is the native platform for web development, because the
>>>> first web server
>>>> was on *nix, and it is still the primary platform
>>>> (http://news.netcraft.com/).
>>>>
>>>> /Str.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It doesn't matter if the first web server was on *nix, nor that it is
>>> still the
>>> primary platform for web development.  Linux is *not* the "native
>>> platform for PHP
>>> development".
>>>
>>> In fact, I would almost bet there is more PHP *development* done on
>>> Windows, even
>>> though *deployment* is done on *nix.  Windows is, after all, the
>>> predominant system
>>> on the desktop (where most development is done).
>>
>> yes, for the desktop, but not where most development is done.
>>
>> Maybe I confound it with the question which desktop is best for *nix
>> development, but
>> it just does not make sense develop for *nix on a MS Win desktop. You
>> do not even
>> have a decent shell. MinGW and Cygwin are not THE REAL THING.
>>
>> BTW I am not a MS hater, I had a Technet subscription with all MS
>> operating systems
>> when I gave courses in MS Networking / Active Directory.
>> /Str.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Most development isn't done on a desktop?  Horse Hockey!  People don't
> develop on servers.  They may (and should) have development
> environments, but like most I've seen, those are done on the same
> desktop they write the code on.  Some may have a separate "server", but
> it generally isn't really a "server" - it's another desktop which
> happens to be running Apache or something similar.
>
> It makes perfect sense to develop PHP scripts on a Windows desktop.
> There are some great IDEs available for Windows, and unless you need
> some rather esoteric *nix functions, the code is 100% portable.
>
> I do my do my development here on Windows (because I need Windows for
> other things anyway) with Apache running on this system. Eclipse IDE
> runs great and I can edit the files right in the local web directory.
> When they are working like I want them to, I upload them to a test Linux
> server for final checks.  Then over to the live system.
>
> I would suggest many people use a similar process (perhaps without the
> test Linux system - it's really not necessary but I like to be careful).
>
>

I'm super happy that you guys are commenting on this thread, but I won't 
have that flame potential not focused on getting my bologna configured.

For the purpose of this thread, OP is developing on ubuntu and is a 
native american.  I'm very invested in the tool-chain of linux now, My 
grandma had to pass herself off as a mexican to marry a chicago cop. Her 
son, my dad, would never use linux, but made extraordinary calculation 
in then-available syntaxes computing a better house, with, for example, 
solar gains, referenced.

I'm gonna try to get php as a two stepper, and if I fail, I'm coming 
right back here.
-- 
Cal

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#8350 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 12/02/13 05:23, Cal Dershowitz wrote:

> I'm gonna try to get php as a two stepper, and if I fail, I'm coming
> right back here.

Its very simple, with a few provisos

Install apache. Get a web server running by editing te config files a 
bit. Not much really.

Install PHP

you may need to adjust apache to use it, but mostly not

Install any php libraries you need to communicate with other stuff like 
mysql etc.

Sometimes you need to tell PHP to use them.

then get coding.


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#8351 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

Am 12.02.2013 06:23, schrieb Cal Dershowitz:
> On 02/11/2013 02:40 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 2/11/2013 4:29 PM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>> Am 11.02.2013 20:13, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>> On 2/11/2013 11:23 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>>>> Am 11.02.2013 15:29, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Incorrect.  Linux is not the "native platform for PHP
>>>>>> development".  It is ONE
>>>>>> platform for PHP development.  PHP runs fine on Windows, also. And
>>>>>> there are good
>>>>>> IDE's on Windows, also.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unix/Linux is the native platform for web development, because the
>>>>> first web server
>>>>> was on *nix, and it is still the primary platform
>>>>> (http://news.netcraft.com/).
>>>>>
>>>>> /Str.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't matter if the first web server was on *nix, nor that it is
>>>> still the
>>>> primary platform for web development.  Linux is *not* the "native
>>>> platform for PHP
>>>> development".
>>>>
>>>> In fact, I would almost bet there is more PHP *development* done on
>>>> Windows, even
>>>> though *deployment* is done on *nix.  Windows is, after all, the
>>>> predominant system
>>>> on the desktop (where most development is done).
>>>
>>> yes, for the desktop, but not where most development is done.
>>>
>>> Maybe I confound it with the question which desktop is best for *nix
>>> development, but
>>> it just does not make sense develop for *nix on a MS Win desktop. You
>>> do not even
>>> have a decent shell. MinGW and Cygwin are not THE REAL THING.
>>>
>>> BTW I am not a MS hater, I had a Technet subscription with all MS
>>> operating systems
>>> when I gave courses in MS Networking / Active Directory.
>>> /Str.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Most development isn't done on a desktop?  Horse Hockey!  People don't
>> develop on servers.  They may (and should) have development
>> environments, but like most I've seen, those are done on the same
>> desktop they write the code on.  Some may have a separate "server", but
>> it generally isn't really a "server" - it's another desktop which
>> happens to be running Apache or something similar.
>>
>> It makes perfect sense to develop PHP scripts on a Windows desktop.
>> There are some great IDEs available for Windows, and unless you need
>> some rather esoteric *nix functions, the code is 100% portable.
>>
>> I do my do my development here on Windows (because I need Windows for
>> other things anyway) with Apache running on this system. Eclipse IDE
>> runs great and I can edit the files right in the local web directory.
>> When they are working like I want them to, I upload them to a test Linux
>> server for final checks.  Then over to the live system.
>>
>> I would suggest many people use a similar process (perhaps without the
>> test Linux system - it's really not necessary but I like to be careful).
>>
>>
> 
> I'm super happy that you guys are commenting on this thread, but I won't have that
> flame potential not focused on getting my bologna configured.

Flaming looks different, on Usenet. This is just an exchange of point of views.

> 
> For the purpose of this thread, OP is developing on ubuntu and is a native american. 
> I'm very invested in the tool-chain of linux now, My grandma had to pass herself off

That's it, the tool chain. Some say *nix is a development system by itself.

> as a mexican to marry a chicago cop. Her son, my dad, would never use linux, but made
> extraordinary calculation in then-available syntaxes computing a better house, with,
> for example, solar gains, referenced.
> 
> I'm gonna try to get php as a two stepper, and if I fail, I'm coming right back here.

Just install the packages with the most generic names, and you are ready to start.
The thing is, there is more to it than just finding the right PHP functions,
everything works together: network, web server, database, file system,...

Good luck.

/Str.

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#8356 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 09:38:45 +0100, M. Strobel wrote:

> Am 12.02.2013 06:23, schrieb Cal Dershowitz:
>
>> I'm super happy that you guys are commenting on this thread, but I
>> won't have that flame potential not focused on getting my bologna
>> configured.
>
> Flaming looks different, on Usenet. This is just an exchange of point
> of views.

Flaming on USENET can frequently be noted to involve sexual tastes
and diagnosises of genetic disorders due to too-close parents. We'll
probably get there in time. (:

-- 
Mares eat oats, and does eat oats, and little lambs eat ivy,
A kid will eat ivy too, wouldn't you?

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#8357 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 2/12/2013 12:23 AM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
> On 02/11/2013 02:40 PM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 2/11/2013 4:29 PM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>> Am 11.02.2013 20:13, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>> On 2/11/2013 11:23 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>>>> Am 11.02.2013 15:29, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Incorrect.  Linux is not the "native platform for PHP
>>>>>> development".  It is ONE
>>>>>> platform for PHP development.  PHP runs fine on Windows, also. And
>>>>>> there are good
>>>>>> IDE's on Windows, also.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unix/Linux is the native platform for web development, because the
>>>>> first web server
>>>>> was on *nix, and it is still the primary platform
>>>>> (http://news.netcraft.com/).
>>>>>
>>>>> /Str.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't matter if the first web server was on *nix, nor that it is
>>>> still the
>>>> primary platform for web development.  Linux is *not* the "native
>>>> platform for PHP
>>>> development".
>>>>
>>>> In fact, I would almost bet there is more PHP *development* done on
>>>> Windows, even
>>>> though *deployment* is done on *nix.  Windows is, after all, the
>>>> predominant system
>>>> on the desktop (where most development is done).
>>>
>>> yes, for the desktop, but not where most development is done.
>>>
>>> Maybe I confound it with the question which desktop is best for *nix
>>> development, but
>>> it just does not make sense develop for *nix on a MS Win desktop. You
>>> do not even
>>> have a decent shell. MinGW and Cygwin are not THE REAL THING.
>>>
>>> BTW I am not a MS hater, I had a Technet subscription with all MS
>>> operating systems
>>> when I gave courses in MS Networking / Active Directory.
>>> /Str.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Most development isn't done on a desktop?  Horse Hockey!  People don't
>> develop on servers.  They may (and should) have development
>> environments, but like most I've seen, those are done on the same
>> desktop they write the code on.  Some may have a separate "server", but
>> it generally isn't really a "server" - it's another desktop which
>> happens to be running Apache or something similar.
>>
>> It makes perfect sense to develop PHP scripts on a Windows desktop.
>> There are some great IDEs available for Windows, and unless you need
>> some rather esoteric *nix functions, the code is 100% portable.
>>
>> I do my do my development here on Windows (because I need Windows for
>> other things anyway) with Apache running on this system. Eclipse IDE
>> runs great and I can edit the files right in the local web directory.
>> When they are working like I want them to, I upload them to a test Linux
>> server for final checks.  Then over to the live system.
>>
>> I would suggest many people use a similar process (perhaps without the
>> test Linux system - it's really not necessary but I like to be careful).
>>
>>
>
> I'm super happy that you guys are commenting on this thread, but I won't
> have that flame potential not focused on getting my bologna configured.
>
> For the purpose of this thread, OP is developing on ubuntu and is a
> native american.  I'm very invested in the tool-chain of linux now, My
> grandma had to pass herself off as a mexican to marry a chicago cop. Her
> son, my dad, would never use linux, but made extraordinary calculation
> in then-available syntaxes computing a better house, with, for example,
> solar gains, referenced.
>
> I'm gonna try to get php as a two stepper, and if I fail, I'm coming
> right back here.

I think the easiest way for you to install PHP would be to use the 
ubuntu package manager.  I understand ubuntu isn't much different than 
debian (which is what I use), and it will preconfigure a working system 
for you.  It's also easy to change the configuration.

And no, we aren't flaming.  Just having a difference of opinion :).

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#8394 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 02/12/2013 06:09 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

>
> I think the easiest way for you to install PHP would be to use the
> ubuntu package manager.  I understand ubuntu isn't much different than
> debian (which is what I use), and it will preconfigure a working system
> for you.  It's also easy to change the configuration.
>
> And no, we aren't flaming.  Just having a difference of opinion :).
>

Jerry, I'm glad you didn't, because I'm not quite there, and it would be 
hard to double back if everyone knew this subthread was engulfed in 
silliness.

It seems people have differing means of accomplishing what I have set 
forth to do here, each catering to their own apache architecture needs.

IMO, the hands-down winner for how to get a LAMP capability on ubuntu 
was supplied most the way with a one-liner by ben:

sudo apt-get install apache2 php5

Ultimately, I decided to go for a default installation, after having 
taken steps in another direction.  I've gone back and edited

/etc/apache2/sites-available/default

to have /var/www/
(tried /var/www as well)

restarted, yet I can't get output on this simplest of scripts
$ pwd
/var/www
$ ls -l
total 8
-rw-r--r-- 1 www-data automation 177 Feb 12 19:08 index.html
-rw-r--r-- 1 fred     automation  20 Feb 18 23:02 test.php
$ cat test.php
<?php phpinfo(); ?>
$

What I get is firefox telling me that it cannot connect to the server at 
localhost.

Fishing for tips.
-- 
Cal

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#8404 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 19/02/13 08:56, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
> On 02/12/2013 06:09 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>>
>> I think the easiest way for you to install PHP would be to use the
>> ubuntu package manager.  I understand ubuntu isn't much different than
>> debian (which is what I use), and it will preconfigure a working system
>> for you.  It's also easy to change the configuration.
>>
>> And no, we aren't flaming.  Just having a difference of opinion :).
>>
>
> Jerry, I'm glad you didn't, because I'm not quite there, and it would be
> hard to double back if everyone knew this subthread was engulfed in
> silliness.
>
> It seems people have differing means of accomplishing what I have set
> forth to do here, each catering to their own apache architecture needs.
>
> IMO, the hands-down winner for how to get a LAMP capability on ubuntu
> was supplied most the way with a one-liner by ben:
>
> sudo apt-get install apache2 php5
>
> Ultimately, I decided to go for a default installation, after having
> taken steps in another direction.  I've gone back and edited
>
> /etc/apache2/sites-available/default
>
> to have /var/www/
> (tried /var/www as well)
>
> restarted, yet I can't get output on this simplest of scripts
> $ pwd
> /var/www
> $ ls -l
> total 8
> -rw-r--r-- 1 www-data automation 177 Feb 12 19:08 index.html
> -rw-r--r-- 1 fred     automation  20 Feb 18 23:02 test.php
> $ cat test.php
> <?php phpinfo(); ?>
> $
>
> What I get is firefox telling me that it cannot connect to the server at
> localhost.
>
try connecting to 127.0.0.1 instead. If that fails its likely apache 
isn't running

Maybe an error in the config. scripts.

try (as root, or using sudo )

/etc/init.d/apache3 restart

and look to see what errors show up.,

also check /var/log/apache2/error.log



> Fishing for tips.


-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#8407 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 2/19/2013 3:56 AM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
> On 02/12/2013 06:09 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>>
>> I think the easiest way for you to install PHP would be to use the
>> ubuntu package manager.  I understand ubuntu isn't much different than
>> debian (which is what I use), and it will preconfigure a working system
>> for you.  It's also easy to change the configuration.
>>
>> And no, we aren't flaming.  Just having a difference of opinion :).
>>
>
> Jerry, I'm glad you didn't, because I'm not quite there, and it would be
> hard to double back if everyone knew this subthread was engulfed in
> silliness.
>
> It seems people have differing means of accomplishing what I have set
> forth to do here, each catering to their own apache architecture needs.
>
> IMO, the hands-down winner for how to get a LAMP capability on ubuntu
> was supplied most the way with a one-liner by ben:
>
> sudo apt-get install apache2 php5
>
> Ultimately, I decided to go for a default installation, after having
> taken steps in another direction.  I've gone back and edited
>
> /etc/apache2/sites-available/default
>
> to have /var/www/
> (tried /var/www as well)
>
> restarted, yet I can't get output on this simplest of scripts
> $ pwd
> /var/www
> $ ls -l
> total 8
> -rw-r--r-- 1 www-data automation 177 Feb 12 19:08 index.html
> -rw-r--r-- 1 fred     automation  20 Feb 18 23:02 test.php
> $ cat test.php
> <?php phpinfo(); ?>
> $
>
> What I get is firefox telling me that it cannot connect to the server at
> localhost.
>
> Fishing for tips.

Well, the first thing to check would be to see if Apache is actually 
running.  If so, then you need to check into your Apache configuration 
and/or system configuration (i.e. firewalls, network setup, etc.).

But neither is appropriate for a PHP newsgroup.  Maybe one of the Ubuntu 
guys can help.  If you ask in an appropriate newsgroup, you'll get good 
answers.  If you ask in the wrong one, you'll usually be chasing your 
tail due to incorrect responses.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#8408 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 02/19/2013 05:27 AM, Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> Well, the first thing to check would be to see if Apache is actually
> running.  If so, then you need to check into your Apache configuration
> and/or system configuration (i.e. firewalls, network setup, etc.).
>
> But neither is appropriate for a PHP newsgroup.  Maybe one of the Ubuntu
> guys can help.  If you ask in an appropriate newsgroup, you'll get good
> answers.  If you ask in the wrong one, you'll usually be chasing your
> tail due to incorrect responses.
>

Thx Jerry and everyone who helped me through this.  I found invaluable 
comment from both fora in getting this squared away.

http://i49.tinypic.com/207m339.png

Super-impressed by the sleekness of this output relative to how big a 
command had to create it.

$ sudo service apache2 status
[sudo] password for fred:
Apache2 is NOT running.
$

I had been a little-ambitious for what I was going to do on my first 
go-round and tried to create an architecture that is much more than a 
literal beginner was going to need, or more importantly, understand. 
So, apparently, if you forget to delete the link that ben told me to 
delete in /sites-available, then apache2 does not even start with the 
default one.

$ pwd
/etc/apache2/sites-enabled
$ ls -l
total 0
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 26 Feb 12 19:08 000-default -> 
../sites-available/default
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 29 Feb 18 01:39 100-mysite -> 
/home/fred/HTTP/mysite.config
$ sudo rm 100-mysite
[sudo] password for fred:
$ ls
000-default
$

Everything looks good.
-- 
Cal

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#8355 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 22:29:42 +0100, M. Strobel wrote:

> Am 11.02.2013 20:13, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>
>> On 2/11/2013 11:23 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>
>>> Am 11.02.2013 15:29, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>
>>>> Incorrect. Linux is not the "native platform for PHP development".
>>>> It is ONE platform for PHP development. PHP runs fine on Windows,
>>>> also. And there are good IDE's on Windows, also.
>>>
>>>
>>> Unix/Linux is the native platform for web development, because the
>>> first web server was on *nix, and it is still the primary platform
>>> (http://news.netcraft.com/).
>>>
>>> /Str.
>>
>>
>> It doesn't matter if the first web server was on *nix, nor that it is
>> still the primary platform for web development. Linux is *not* the
>> "native platform for PHP development".
>>
>> In fact, I would almost bet there is more PHP *development* done on
>> Windows, even though *deployment* is done on *nix. Windows is, after
>> all, the predominant system on the desktop (where most development is
>> done).
>
> yes, for the desktop, but not where most development is done.
>
> Maybe I confound it with the question which desktop is best for *nix
> development, but it just does not make sense develop for *nix on a MS
> Win desktop. You do not even have a decent shell. MinGW and Cygwin are
> not THE REAL THING.

I am not sure how this matters, since 99.9% of development doesn't
even touch a shell, and wouldn't need the facilities of even those
(MinGW/Cygwin) anyway. An IDE works with files, it may compile things,
it probably does some socket stuff connecting to a versioning system
or source repository, but all the capacities of the programs being
developed depend on the capacities of the languages that they're built
in, and all stuff outside that can easily be provided by the IDE itself.
(EG: Who cares if you've got a posix grep utility around if your IDE
would be built with a regexp library bound in anyway?)

-- 
40. I will be neither chivalrous nor sporting. If I have an unstoppable 
    superweapon, I will use it as early and as often as possible instead
    of keeping it in reserve.
	--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

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