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using scripting languages to automate a browser

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  using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-10 01:04 -0700
    Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-10 10:03 +0100
    Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-10 10:49 +0100
      getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-10 19:58 -0700
        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages   to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-11 12:39 +0100
          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages   to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-11 09:29 -0500
            Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages     to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-11 17:23 +0100
              Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages     to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-11 14:13 -0500
                Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-11 22:29 +0100
                  Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-11 16:40 -0500
                    Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-11 22:23 -0700
                      Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-12 07:02 +0000
                      Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages         to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-12 09:38 +0100
                        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages         to automate a browser "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2013-02-12 07:54 -0600
                      Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-12 09:09 -0500
                        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-19 00:56 -0800
                          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-19 12:12 +0000
                          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-19 08:27 -0500
                            Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-19 17:08 -0800
                  Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2013-02-12 07:50 -0600
                    Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages       to automate a browser The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-12 14:28 +0000
                    Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting   languages       to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-12 15:29 +0100
                      Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting   languages       to automate a browser Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-17 08:48 +0100
                        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting   languages       to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-19 01:19 -0800
                          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting   languages       to automate a browser Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-19 11:43 +0100
        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Warren Post <warren@copaninvest.com> - 2013-02-11 07:40 -0600
          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-11 13:20 -0700
            Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages   to automate a browser "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-11 22:32 +0100
            Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Captain Paralytic <paul_lautman@yahoo.com> - 2013-02-12 02:12 -0800
            Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Warren Post <warren@copaninvest.com> - 2013-02-12 07:42 -0600
              Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-12 14:27 +0000
                Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-12 21:09 -0700
                  Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-13 06:14 -0500
                  Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Allodoxaphobia <knock_yourself_out@example.net> - 2013-02-13 19:35 +0000
                  Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-13 23:40 +0000
                    Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-13 23:48 -0700
                      Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Kim André Akerø <kimandre@nospambetadome.com> - 2013-02-14 17:15 +0100
                        Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Cal Dershowitz <cal@example.invalid> - 2013-02-19 01:27 -0800
                          Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-19 11:44 +0100

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#8359 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 12/02/13 13:50, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 22:29:42 +0100, M. Strobel wrote:
>
>> Am 11.02.2013 20:13, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>
>>> On 2/11/2013 11:23 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 11.02.2013 15:29, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>>
>>>>> Incorrect. Linux is not the "native platform for PHP development".
>>>>> It is ONE platform for PHP development. PHP runs fine on Windows,
>>>>> also. And there are good IDE's on Windows, also.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unix/Linux is the native platform for web development, because the
>>>> first web server was on *nix, and it is still the primary platform
>>>> (http://news.netcraft.com/).
>>>>
>>>> /Str.
>>>
>>>
>>> It doesn't matter if the first web server was on *nix, nor that it is
>>> still the primary platform for web development. Linux is *not* the
>>> "native platform for PHP development".
>>>
>>> In fact, I would almost bet there is more PHP *development* done on
>>> Windows, even though *deployment* is done on *nix. Windows is, after
>>> all, the predominant system on the desktop (where most development is
>>> done).
>>
>> yes, for the desktop, but not where most development is done.
>>
>> Maybe I confound it with the question which desktop is best for *nix
>> development, but it just does not make sense develop for *nix on a MS
>> Win desktop. You do not even have a decent shell. MinGW and Cygwin are
>> not THE REAL THING.
>
> I am not sure how this matters, since 99.9% of development doesn't
> even touch a shell, and wouldn't need the facilities of even those
> (MinGW/Cygwin) anyway. An IDE works with files, it may compile things,
> it probably does some socket stuff connecting to a versioning system
> or source repository, but all the capacities of the programs being
> developed depend on the capacities of the languages that they're built
> in, and all stuff outside that can easily be provided by the IDE itself.
> (EG: Who cares if you've got a posix grep utility around if your IDE
> would be built with a regexp library bound in anyway?)
>
agreed. I used to do it with just a decent editor.

Till Linux got good enough to ditch windows 98...




-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#8360 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

Am 12.02.2013 14:50, schrieb Peter H. Coffin:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 22:29:42 +0100, M. Strobel wrote:
> 
>> Am 11.02.2013 20:13, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>
>>> On 2/11/2013 11:23 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 11.02.2013 15:29, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>>>>
>>>>> Incorrect. Linux is not the "native platform for PHP development".
>>>>> It is ONE platform for PHP development. PHP runs fine on Windows,
>>>>> also. And there are good IDE's on Windows, also.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Unix/Linux is the native platform for web development, because the
>>>> first web server was on *nix, and it is still the primary platform
>>>> (http://news.netcraft.com/).
>>>>
>>>> /Str.
>>>
>>>
>>> It doesn't matter if the first web server was on *nix, nor that it is
>>> still the primary platform for web development. Linux is *not* the
>>> "native platform for PHP development".
>>>
>>> In fact, I would almost bet there is more PHP *development* done on
>>> Windows, even though *deployment* is done on *nix. Windows is, after
>>> all, the predominant system on the desktop (where most development is
>>> done).
>>
>> yes, for the desktop, but not where most development is done.
>>
>> Maybe I confound it with the question which desktop is best for *nix
>> development, but it just does not make sense develop for *nix on a MS
>> Win desktop. You do not even have a decent shell. MinGW and Cygwin are
>> not THE REAL THING.
> 
> I am not sure how this matters, since 99.9% of development doesn't
> even touch a shell, and wouldn't need the facilities of even those
> (MinGW/Cygwin) anyway. An IDE works with files, it may compile things,
> it probably does some socket stuff connecting to a versioning system
> or source repository, but all the capacities of the programs being
> developed depend on the capacities of the languages that they're built
> in, and all stuff outside that can easily be provided by the IDE itself.
> (EG: Who cares if you've got a posix grep utility around if your IDE
> would be built with a regexp library bound in anyway?)
> 

Then it looks like I am doing something completely wrong.

I have to: write helper scripts, distribute them on my servers into the search path,
version them, pump data out one database piping via ssh to remote servers, automate
remote server setup and management, set up remote versioning repos, testing PHP
snippets because of version differences and fine tuning, test HTML5 features and
javascript in browser versions, write DB consistency checks, ... and yes, brute force
grep through everything for refactoring.

It really helps to work within the same OS family.
/Str.

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#8382 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

M. Strobel, 2013-02-12 15:29:

> Am 12.02.2013 14:50, schrieb Peter H. Coffin:
>> On Mon, 11 Feb 2013 22:29:42 +0100, M. Strobel wrote:
[...]
>>> Maybe I confound it with the question which desktop is best for *nix
>>> development, but it just does not make sense develop for *nix on a MS
>>> Win desktop. You do not even have a decent shell. MinGW and Cygwin are
>>> not THE REAL THING.
>>
>> I am not sure how this matters, since 99.9% of development doesn't
>> even touch a shell, and wouldn't need the facilities of even those
>> (MinGW/Cygwin) anyway. An IDE works with files, it may compile things,
>> it probably does some socket stuff connecting to a versioning system
>> or source repository, but all the capacities of the programs being
>> developed depend on the capacities of the languages that they're built
>> in, and all stuff outside that can easily be provided by the IDE itself.
>> (EG: Who cares if you've got a posix grep utility around if your IDE
>> would be built with a regexp library bound in anyway?)
>>
> 
> Then it looks like I am doing something completely wrong.
> 
> I have to: write helper scripts, distribute them on my servers into the search path,
> version them, pump data out one database piping via ssh to remote servers, automate
> remote server setup and management, set up remote versioning repos, testing PHP
> snippets because of version differences and fine tuning, test HTML5 features and
> javascript in browser versions, write DB consistency checks, ... and yes, brute force
> grep through everything for refactoring.
> 
> It really helps to work within the same OS family.

In *this* case - yes, for you.

But "PHP development" does not necessarily involve "helper scripts",
"piping via ssh to remote servers", "automate remote server setup and
management" etc. This is just a use case - and even a rare one compared
to the number of existing PHP installations and what they are used for.

There are a lot of PHP based applications which only need PHP itself and
probably a database like MySQL - and run fine on a Windows based system
as well.

Therefore i would not say that Linux is the "native" platform for PHP.
Apache is also not the "native" platform for web servers - other systems
like nginx or IIS exist and are used as well.

Of course - depending on what you want to do, it is important to have
the same environment for development as for production (same web server,
same libraries etc.). But this may also just be "Apache", "MySQL", "PHP"
- and nothing more.


-- 
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

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#8395 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 02/16/2013 11:48 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
> M. Strobel, 2013-02-12 15:29:

>> It really helps to work within the same OS family.
>
> In *this* case - yes, for you.
>
> But "PHP development" does not necessarily involve "helper scripts",
> "piping via ssh to remote servers", "automate remote server setup and
> management" etc. This is just a use case - and even a rare one compared
> to the number of existing PHP installations and what they are used for.
>
> There are a lot of PHP based applications which only need PHP itself and
> probably a database like MySQL - and run fine on a Windows based system
> as well.

Arno,

I'd like to stop you right here and ask you a question.  It goes to 
overall architecture.

I notice that the facebook I spend way too much time on is written in 
php.  Am I correct to think that the images and vids we see on fb are 
accessed through being in that database?

I ask, because with my current toolchain for uploading images to the 
net, I have to create a new, unique directory every time or risk that 
the content simply be there for the hacking.

What I want to do is use my web domain to show photos and vids just like 
any other site can.  Heck even the nra can do it.  This is how I promote 
the projects I'm working on.
>
> Therefore i would not say that Linux is the "native" platform for PHP.
> Apache is also not the "native" platform for web servers - other systems
> like nginx or IIS exist and are used as well.
>
> Of course - depending on what you want to do, it is important to have
> the same environment for development as for production (same web server,
> same libraries etc.). But this may also just be "Apache", "MySQL", "PHP"
> - and nothing more.
>
>

Gruss aus den Staaten,
-- 
Cal

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#8399 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

Cal Dershowitz, 2013-02-19 10:19:

> On 02/16/2013 11:48 PM, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> M. Strobel, 2013-02-12 15:29:
> 
>>> It really helps to work within the same OS family.
>>
>> In *this* case - yes, for you.
>>
>> But "PHP development" does not necessarily involve "helper scripts",
>> "piping via ssh to remote servers", "automate remote server setup and
>> management" etc. This is just a use case - and even a rare one compared
>> to the number of existing PHP installations and what they are used for.
>>
>> There are a lot of PHP based applications which only need PHP itself and
>> probably a database like MySQL - and run fine on a Windows based system
>> as well.
> 
> Arno,
> 
> I'd like to stop you right here and ask you a question.  It goes to
> overall architecture.
> 
> I notice that the facebook I spend way too much time on is written in
> php.  Am I correct to think that the images and vids we see on fb are
> accessed through being in that database?

Maybe - but this is pure speculation, since i don't know how Facebook
implemented the image storage. It may also be, that images are stored as
files in a directory which is not accessible to the public and
develivered using scripts which fetch the files.

> I ask, because with my current toolchain for uploading images to the
> net, I have to create a new, unique directory every time or risk that
> the content simply be there for the hacking.
> 
> What I want to do is use my web domain to show photos and vids just like
> any other site can.  Heck even the nra can do it.  This is how I promote
> the projects I'm working on.

And what exactly is your problem? What do you mean by "risk that the
content simply be there for the hacking"?


-- 
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

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#8339 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 02/10/2013 08:58 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
> The tutorial I looked at wants me to install XAMPP.  Is that the best
> idea for getting a php development environment squared away given that this
>
> $ uname -a
> Linux fred-desktop 3.2.0-33-generic-pae #52-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 18
> 16:39:21 UTC 2012 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
>
> is my platform?

I have a strong preference for using my distro's packages when available 
rather than 3rd party products. In your case, that would be Ubuntu's 
Apache, either MySQL or MariaDB, and PHP, installed and tested in that 
order. This combination is called LAMP.

I haven't had opportunity to set up a LAMP server on Ubuntu, but perhaps 
the notes I took when doing it on Mandriva will help you get going:

http://my.opera.com/wpost/blog/index.dml/tag/LAMP

-- 
Warren Post

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#8344 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 02/11/2013 06:40 AM, Warren Post wrote:
> On 02/10/2013 08:58 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
>> The tutorial I looked at wants me to install XAMPP.  Is that the best
>> idea for getting a php development environment squared away given that
>> this
>>
>> $ uname -a
>> Linux fred-desktop 3.2.0-33-generic-pae #52-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 18
>> 16:39:21 UTC 2012 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
>>
>> is my platform?
>
> I have a strong preference for using my distro's packages when available
> rather than 3rd party products. In your case, that would be Ubuntu's
> Apache, either MySQL or MariaDB, and PHP, installed and tested in that
> order. This combination is called LAMP.
>
> I haven't had opportunity to set up a LAMP server on Ubuntu, but perhaps
> the notes I took when doing it on Mandriva will help you get going:
>
> http://my.opera.com/wpost/blog/index.dml/tag/LAMP
>

Thx all for responses.  The tutorial I looked at talked of XAAMP, where 
I was basically-ignorant of what the acronym might mean.

http://my.opera.com/wpost/blog/install-php

So I think I need the AMP part.  I guess I'm assuming that the L was for 
Linux.  As I look at Apache in the synaptic package manager, I see 200 
choices again.

You'd think that someone would have rolled the process togther a bit, as 
many times as it has to have been done.
-- 
Cal

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#8346 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

Am 11.02.2013 21:20, schrieb Cal Dershowitz:
> On 02/11/2013 06:40 AM, Warren Post wrote:
>> On 02/10/2013 08:58 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
>>> The tutorial I looked at wants me to install XAMPP.  Is that the best
>>> idea for getting a php development environment squared away given that
>>> this
>>>
>>> $ uname -a
>>> Linux fred-desktop 3.2.0-33-generic-pae #52-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 18
>>> 16:39:21 UTC 2012 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
>>>
>>> is my platform?
>>
>> I have a strong preference for using my distro's packages when available
>> rather than 3rd party products. In your case, that would be Ubuntu's
>> Apache, either MySQL or MariaDB, and PHP, installed and tested in that
>> order. This combination is called LAMP.
>>
>> I haven't had opportunity to set up a LAMP server on Ubuntu, but perhaps
>> the notes I took when doing it on Mandriva will help you get going:
>>
>> http://my.opera.com/wpost/blog/index.dml/tag/LAMP
>>
> 
> Thx all for responses.  The tutorial I looked at talked of XAAMP, where I was
> basically-ignorant of what the acronym might mean.
> 
> http://my.opera.com/wpost/blog/install-php
> 
> So I think I need the AMP part.  I guess I'm assuming that the L was for Linux.  As I
> look at Apache in the synaptic package manager, I see 200 choices again.
> 
> You'd think that someone would have rolled the process togther a bit, as many times
> as it has to have been done.

There are generic packages with a good preselection for apache2, php, and mysql, no
need to go into package details for a starter.

/Str.

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#8353 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On Feb 11, 8:20 pm, Cal Dershowitz <c...@example.invalid> wrote:
> On 02/11/2013 06:40 AM, Warren Post wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 02/10/2013 08:58 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
> >> The tutorial I looked at wants me to install XAMPP.  Is that the best
> >> idea for getting a php development environment squared away given that
> >> this
>
> >> $ uname -a
> >> Linux fred-desktop 3.2.0-33-generic-pae #52-Ubuntu SMP Thu Oct 18
> >> 16:39:21 UTC 2012 i686 athlon i386 GNU/Linux
>
> >> is my platform?
>
> > I have a strong preference for using my distro's packages when available
> > rather than 3rd party products. In your case, that would be Ubuntu's
> > Apache, either MySQL or MariaDB, and PHP, installed and tested in that
> > order. This combination is called LAMP.
>
> > I haven't had opportunity to set up a LAMP server on Ubuntu, but perhaps
> > the notes I took when doing it on Mandriva will help you get going:
>
> >http://my.opera.com/wpost/blog/index.dml/tag/LAMP
>
> Thx all for responses.  The tutorial I looked at talked of XAAMP, where
> I was basically-ignorant of what the acronym might mean.

Ahh well I have a tip to help you here. There's this thing called
Google. If you search for XAAMP, it will helpfully tell you that it
searched instead for XAMPP and on the first page of results, it will
say:
"XAMPP is an integrated server package of Apache, mySQL, PHP and Perl
(the AMPP in XAMPP) that all run from a removable drive."

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#8354 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 02/11/2013 02:20 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
> The tutorial I looked at talked of XAAMP, where I was basically-ignorant
> of what the acronym might mean.
>
> http://my.opera.com/wpost/blog/install-php
>
> So I think I need the AMP part.  I guess I'm assuming that the L was for
> Linux.

Correct: Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP = LAMP. Sorry for not making that 
explicit.

> As I look at Apache in the synaptic package manager, I see 200
> choices again.
>
> You'd think that someone would have rolled the process togther a bit, as
> many times as it has to have been done.

Most Linux distros that try to be newbie friendly do, called a 
metapackage. I'm not on an Ubuntu box to check what it's called there, 
but FWIW on Mageia its called task-lamp.

-- 
Warren Post
http://my.opera.com/wpost/

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#8358 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 12/02/13 13:42, Warren Post wrote:
> On 02/11/2013 02:20 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
>> The tutorial I looked at talked of XAAMP, where I was basically-ignorant
>> of what the acronym might mean.
>>
>> http://my.opera.com/wpost/blog/install-php
>>
>> So I think I need the AMP part.  I guess I'm assuming that the L was for
>> Linux.
>
> Correct: Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP = LAMP. Sorry for not making that
> explicit.
>
>> As I look at Apache in the synaptic package manager, I see 200
>> choices again.
>>
>> You'd think that someone would have rolled the process togther a bit, as
>> many times as it has to have been done.
>
> Most Linux distros that try to be newbie friendly do, called a
> metapackage. I'm not on an Ubuntu box to check what it's called there,
> but FWIW on Mageia its called task-lamp.
>
All here by the looks of it

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP



-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#8361 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 02/12/2013 07:27 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> All here by the looks of it
>
> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP
>
>
>

Thanks all for comments.  I got as far in the process as to have a 
localhost that shows up in a browser and try to write test.php, and I 
don't want to get too far ahead of myself with enabling permissions.

$ cat > test.php
bash: test.php: Permission denied
$ pwd
/var/www
$ cd ..
$ ls -l
total 48
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Feb  1 17:18 backups
drwxr-xr-x 18 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:06 cache
drwxrwsrwt  2 root whoopsie 4096 Dec 13 07:35 crash
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 games
drwxr-xr-x 66 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:07 lib
drwxrwsr-x  2 root staff    4096 Apr 19  2012 local
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root        9 Jan 23 02:33 lock -> /run/lock
drwxr-xr-x 19 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:07 log
drwxrwsr-x  2 root mail     4096 Apr 23  2012 mail
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 opt
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root        4 Jan 23 02:33 run -> /run
drwxr-xr-x  8 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 spool
drwxrwxrwt  2 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:02 tmp
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:08 www
$

Without any better notion, I would simply chmod a +w  here for www, but 
I'd first like to ask if that's a good idea, as sometimes I've found 
that when I lack permission to do something, that it's more like keeping 
me from shooting myself in the foot.

What would you do now?
-- 
Cal

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#8363 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 2/12/2013 11:09 PM, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
> On 02/12/2013 07:27 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> All here by the looks of it
>>
>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thanks all for comments.  I got as far in the process as to have a
> localhost that shows up in a browser and try to write test.php, and I
> don't want to get too far ahead of myself with enabling permissions.
>
> $ cat > test.php
> bash: test.php: Permission denied
> $ pwd
> /var/www
> $ cd ..
> $ ls -l
> total 48
> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Feb  1 17:18 backups
> drwxr-xr-x 18 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:06 cache
> drwxrwsrwt  2 root whoopsie 4096 Dec 13 07:35 crash
> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 games
> drwxr-xr-x 66 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:07 lib
> drwxrwsr-x  2 root staff    4096 Apr 19  2012 local
> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root        9 Jan 23 02:33 lock -> /run/lock
> drwxr-xr-x 19 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:07 log
> drwxrwsr-x  2 root mail     4096 Apr 23  2012 mail
> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 opt
> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root        4 Jan 23 02:33 run -> /run
> drwxr-xr-x  8 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 spool
> drwxrwxrwt  2 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:02 tmp
> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:08 www
> $
>
> Without any better notion, I would simply chmod a +w  here for www, but
> I'd first like to ask if that's a good idea, as sometimes I've found
> that when I lack permission to do something, that it's more like keeping
> me from shooting myself in the foot.
>
> What would you do now?

I wouldn't be running as root.  You should almost never use root as a 
user account.  Rather, run as a user account with the appropriate 
permissions.  And set your directories up similarly.

But Linux permissions are off topic here.  You should be asking in an 
ubuntu group - where you'll get good advice for your OS-related questions.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#8364 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 21:09:49 -0700, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
> On 02/12/2013 07:27 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> All here by the looks of it
>>
>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP
>
> Thanks all for comments.  I got as far in the process as to have a 
> localhost that shows up in a browser and try to write test.php, and I 
> don't want to get too far ahead of myself with enabling permissions.
>
> $ cat > test.php
> bash: test.php: Permission denied

errr... uhhhh..  chmod executable?

Jonesy

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#8365 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 13/02/13 04:09, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
> On 02/12/2013 07:27 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> All here by the looks of it
>>
>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thanks all for comments.  I got as far in the process as to have a
> localhost that shows up in a browser and try to write test.php, and I
> don't want to get too far ahead of myself with enabling permissions.
>
> $ cat > test.php
> bash: test.php: Permission denied
> $ pwd
> /var/www
> $ cd ..
> $ ls -l
> total 48
> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Feb  1 17:18 backups
> drwxr-xr-x 18 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:06 cache
> drwxrwsrwt  2 root whoopsie 4096 Dec 13 07:35 crash
> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 games
> drwxr-xr-x 66 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:07 lib
> drwxrwsr-x  2 root staff    4096 Apr 19  2012 local
> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root        9 Jan 23 02:33 lock -> /run/lock
> drwxr-xr-x 19 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:07 log
> drwxrwsr-x  2 root mail     4096 Apr 23  2012 mail
> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 opt
> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root        4 Jan 23 02:33 run -> /run
> drwxr-xr-x  8 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 spool
> drwxrwxrwt  2 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:02 tmp
> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:08 www
> $
>
> Without any better notion, I would simply chmod a +w  here for www, but
> I'd first like to ask if that's a good idea, as sometimes I've found
> that when I lack permission to do something, that it's more like keeping
> me from shooting myself in the foot.
>
> What would you do now?
I would make www owned by (IIRC) www-data or whatever apache runs under, 
and group staff and leave the permissions alone.

If that is felt to be a bit lax there are other arrangements involving 
sticky bits that can ensure that what goes in there gets allocated to 
the right group.

For a nasty hack for testing and getting stuff working chmod 777 the 
directory at least. But don't do that on a publicly
visible server.

It pays to understand the permissions system on *nix properly,and use it 
as another line of defence against hackers.


#

-- 
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to 
lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the 
members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are 
rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a 
diminishing number of producers.

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#8366 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 02/13/2013 04:40 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 13/02/13 04:09, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
>> On 02/12/2013 07:27 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> All here by the looks of it
>>>
>>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thanks all for comments.  I got as far in the process as to have a
>> localhost that shows up in a browser and try to write test.php, and I
>> don't want to get too far ahead of myself with enabling permissions.
>>
>> $ cat > test.php
>> bash: test.php: Permission denied
>> $ pwd
>> /var/www
>> $ cd ..
>> $ ls -l
>> total 48
>> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Feb  1 17:18 backups
>> drwxr-xr-x 18 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:06 cache
>> drwxrwsrwt  2 root whoopsie 4096 Dec 13 07:35 crash
>> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 games
>> drwxr-xr-x 66 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:07 lib
>> drwxrwsr-x  2 root staff    4096 Apr 19  2012 local
>> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root        9 Jan 23 02:33 lock -> /run/lock
>> drwxr-xr-x 19 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:07 log
>> drwxrwsr-x  2 root mail     4096 Apr 23  2012 mail
>> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 opt
>> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root        4 Jan 23 02:33 run -> /run
>> drwxr-xr-x  8 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 spool
>> drwxrwxrwt  2 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:02 tmp
>> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:08 www
>> $
>>
>> Without any better notion, I would simply chmod a +w  here for www, but
>> I'd first like to ask if that's a good idea, as sometimes I've found
>> that when I lack permission to do something, that it's more like keeping
>> me from shooting myself in the foot.
>>
>> What would you do now?
> I would make www owned by (IIRC) www-data or whatever apache runs under,
> and group staff and leave the permissions alone.

Can you elaborate?
>
> If that is felt to be a bit lax there are other arrangements involving
> sticky bits that can ensure that what goes in there gets allocated to
> the right group.
>
> For a nasty hack for testing and getting stuff working chmod 777 the
> directory at least. But don't do that on a publicly
> visible server.
>
> It pays to understand the permissions system on *nix properly,and use it
> as another line of defence against hackers.
>
>
> #
>


Thank you, NP.  "Dirty" is particularly-encouraging as a tactic, since 
it really is only me here, on an ancient machine, trying to make 
something happen.

I've been x-posting here for a bit and even cross-threading, not out of 
malice for the original topicalit of forums, but for the direction a 
thread takes.
$ cat /etc/passwd
root:x:0:0:root:/root:/bin/bash
daemon:x:1:1:daemon:/usr/sbin:/bin/sh
...
www-data:x:33:33:www-data:/var/www:/bin/sh
backup:x:34:34:backup:/var/backups:/bin/sh
list:x:38:38:Mailing List Manager:/var/list:/bin/sh
irc:x:39:39:ircd:/var/run/ircd:/bin/sh
gnats:x:41:41:Gnats Bug-Reporting System (admin):/var/lib/gnats:/bin/sh
nobody:x:65534:65534:nobody:/nonexistent:/bin/sh
libuuid:x:100:101::/var/lib/libuuid:/bin/sh
syslog:x:101:103::/home/syslog:/bin/false
messagebus:x:102:105::/var/run/dbus:/bin/false
colord:x:103:108:colord colour management 
daemon,,,:/var/lib/colord:/bin/false
lightdm:x:104:111:Light Display Manager:/var/lib/lightdm:/bin/false
whoopsie:x:105:114::/nonexistent:/bin/false
avahi-autoipd:x:106:117:Avahi autoip 
daemon,,,:/var/lib/avahi-autoipd:/bin/false
avahi:x:107:118:Avahi mDNS daemon,,,:/var/run/avahi-daemon:/bin/false
usbmux:x:108:46:usbmux daemon,,,:/home/usbmux:/bin/false
kernoops:x:109:65534:Kernel Oops Tracking Daemon,,,:/:/bin/false
pulse:x:110:119:PulseAudio daemon,,,:/var/run/pulse:/bin/false
rtkit:x:111:122:RealtimeKit,,,:/proc:/bin/false
speech-dispatcher:x:112:29:Speech 
Dispatcher,,,:/var/run/speech-dispatcher:/bin/sh
hplip:x:113:7:HPLIP system user,,,:/var/run/hplip:/bin/false
saned:x:114:123::/home/saned:/bin/false
fred:x:1000:1000:fred,,,:/home/fred:/bin/bash
landscape:x:115:125::/var/lib/landscape:/bin/false
sshd:x:116:65534::/var/run/sshd:/usr/sbin/nologin
mysql:x:117:126:MySQL Server,,,:/nonexistent:/bin/false
$


Q,7)  Are these the users of my ubuntu system?

After the ellipses, I think all of that got added as I did a LAMP 
install.  Now I have a quiver full of questions.

Q1)  Now that I have shown /etc/passwd on-line, have I laid out my cards 
to hackers who just have a lot of time their hands, be bored and want to 
do something interesting.  Be aware that my machine and website might 
total one hundred bucks in assets.

Q2)  Do I want to create a group that comprehends all these differing 
agents in apache?

You know what, now that I think about it, all these questions are right 
in the strike zone for c.l.php and a.o.l.ubuntu.

Thanks for your comment and cheers,
-- 
Cal

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#8373 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

På Thu, 14 Feb 2013 07:48:44 +0100, skrev Cal Dershowitz  
<cal@example.invalid>:

> On 02/13/2013 04:40 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 13/02/13 04:09, Cal Dershowitz wrote:
>>> On 02/12/2013 07:27 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>
>>>> All here by the looks of it
>>>>
>>>> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ApacheMySQLPHP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks all for comments.  I got as far in the process as to have a
>>> localhost that shows up in a browser and try to write test.php, and I
>>> don't want to get too far ahead of myself with enabling permissions.
>>>
>>> $ cat > test.php
>>> bash: test.php: Permission denied
>>> $ pwd
>>> /var/www
>>> $ cd ..
>>> $ ls -l
>>> total 48
>>> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Feb  1 17:18 backups
>>> drwxr-xr-x 18 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:06 cache
>>> drwxrwsrwt  2 root whoopsie 4096 Dec 13 07:35 crash
>>> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 games
>>> drwxr-xr-x 66 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:07 lib
>>> drwxrwsr-x  2 root staff    4096 Apr 19  2012 local
>>> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root        9 Jan 23 02:33 lock -> /run/lock
>>> drwxr-xr-x 19 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:07 log
>>> drwxrwsr-x  2 root mail     4096 Apr 23  2012 mail
>>> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 opt
>>> lrwxrwxrwx  1 root root        4 Jan 23 02:33 run -> /run
>>> drwxr-xr-x  8 root root     4096 Apr 23  2012 spool
>>> drwxrwxrwt  2 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:02 tmp
>>> drwxr-xr-x  2 root root     4096 Feb 12 20:08 www
>>> $
>>>
>>> Without any better notion, I would simply chmod a +w  here for www, but
>>> I'd first like to ask if that's a good idea, as sometimes I've found
>>> that when I lack permission to do something, that it's more like  
>>> keeping
>>> me from shooting myself in the foot.
>>>
>>> What would you do now?
>> I would make www owned by (IIRC) www-data or whatever apache runs under,
>> and group staff and leave the permissions alone.
>
> Can you elaborate?

Your /var/www folder is owned by the root user, and the permissions are  
set to only allow the root user to create and write to files in that  
folder.

 From your list of users, I'd say the www-data user is the right one for  
this scenario. Just run the following command:

sudo chown -R www-data:www-data /var/www

This will change the owner (chown) of the /var/www folder to the  
"www-data" user (and the "www-data" group), and all files and folders  
within it (-R = recursively). The sudo command is used to run the chown  
command with elevated administrator privileges (ie. as the root user). You  
may have to provide a password to run that command, though. If you're  
already running the command as the root user, you don't need to run it  
through "sudo".

The other privileges on the files inside /var/www (read/write/execute) can  
stay as they are (no need to use the "chmod" command).

> [snip]
>
> Q,7)  Are these the users of my ubuntu system?
>
> After the ellipses, I think all of that got added as I did a LAMP  
> install.  Now I have a quiver full of questions.

Yes, these are all users of your Ubuntu system, most of these are created  
and used for various background services, especially those with a  
userid/uid lower than 1000 - each line is in the following format (each  
field is separated by ":" - a colon):
username:x:userid:groupid:real name (or description):homedir:shell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passwd_(file)

The www-data user and group is the most common user/group created when  
installing Apache2 on Ubuntu and Debian systems.

> Q1)  Now that I have shown /etc/passwd on-line, have I laid out my cards  
> to hackers who just have a lot of time their hands, be bored and want to  
> do something interesting.  Be aware that my machine and website might  
> total one hundred bucks in assets.

The only "useful" information contained in the /etc/passwd file is mainly  
the usernames - all the rest is mostly useless to outside attackers (the  
password is not revealed in this file, and the homedir and shell paths are  
only somewhat useful once the user has already gotten inside). It may  
provide a starting point for brute-force hacking, though, but then they'd  
also have to know the IP address of your server as well.

> Q2)  Do I want to create a group that comprehends all these differing  
> agents in apache?

All websites served by Apache run under the user that has been defined for  
Apache (usually the user "www-data" and the group "www-data" - this can be  
changed in the config files for Apache, though).

-- 
Kim André Akerø
- kimandre@NOSPAMbetadome.com
(remove NOSPAM to contact me directly)

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#8396 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

On 02/14/2013 08:15 AM, Kim André Akerø wrote:

> sudo chown -R www-data:www-data /var/www

Thx, Kim, this really helped me out of the mire, but I'm not quite 
squared-away yet.
>
> This will change the owner (chown) of the /var/www folder to the
> "www-data" user (and the "www-data" group), and all files and folders
> within it (-R = recursively). The sudo command is used to run the chown
> command with elevated administrator privileges (ie. as the root user).
> You may have to provide a password to run that command, though. If
> you're already running the command as the root user, you don't need to
> run it through "sudo".
>
> The other privileges on the files inside /var/www (read/write/execute)
> can stay as they are (no need to use the "chmod" command).
>

ok.  to run as a php script, a file only need to have read permission, 
though, right?

snip
-- 
Cal

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#8400 — Re: getting a php capability on ubuntu was Re: using scripting languages to automate a browser

Cal Dershowitz, 2013-02-19 10:27:

> On 02/14/2013 08:15 AM, Kim André Akerø wrote:
> 
>> sudo chown -R www-data:www-data /var/www
> 
> Thx, Kim, this really helped me out of the mire, but I'm not quite
> squared-away yet.
>>
>> This will change the owner (chown) of the /var/www folder to the
>> "www-data" user (and the "www-data" group), and all files and folders
>> within it (-R = recursively). The sudo command is used to run the chown
>> command with elevated administrator privileges (ie. as the root user).
>> You may have to provide a password to run that command, though. If
>> you're already running the command as the root user, you don't need to
>> run it through "sudo".
>>
>> The other privileges on the files inside /var/www (read/write/execute)
>> can stay as they are (no need to use the "chmod" command).
>>
> 
> ok.  to run as a php script, a file only need to have read permission,
> though, right?

Yes - since you do not run a PHP script directly but use the PHP
interpeter to do this for you, either with a PHP module in your
Webserver or an external handler.


-- 
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

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