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Groups > comp.lang.php > #8180 > unrolled thread
| Started by | crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-02-02 13:27 -0700 |
| Last post | 2013-02-09 20:58 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 115 — 22 participants |
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anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-02 13:27 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> - 2013-02-02 14:57 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 03:45 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> - 2013-02-03 06:00 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2013-02-02 16:27 -0500
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 03:49 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-03 11:00 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2013-02-03 10:17 -0500
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 11:40 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2013-02-03 14:00 -0500
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Richard Yates <richard@yatesguitar.com> - 2013-02-03 13:56 -0800
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Martin <no@spam.invalid> - 2013-02-04 01:53 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-04 02:40 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-04 09:14 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 02:32 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2013-02-04 11:06 -0500
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 09:15 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-04 16:24 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Jonathan N. Little" <lws4art@gmail.com> - 2013-02-04 11:35 -0500
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 02:22 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:16 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 11:49 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-05 21:22 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-04 16:38 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-04 17:41 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-04 16:58 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 02:21 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:15 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 11:52 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-05 21:23 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-05 06:00 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 13:49 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-02-05 08:22 -0500
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@wizardstower> - 2013-02-05 08:50 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-04 08:40 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 02:49 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-02-02 15:43 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 03:57 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Keith D. Lee" <keithdlee2012@gmail.com> - 2013-02-02 22:20 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 04:13 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-04 12:23 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 08:57 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 14:04 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 13:59 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-03 10:58 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 04:20 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2013-02-03 12:44 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-03 11:50 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2013-02-03 13:47 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-03 13:23 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-04 11:32 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-03 11:43 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-03 13:08 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-03 14:49 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-03 08:16 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-03 15:28 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-03 09:39 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-03 17:50 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-03 11:24 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-03 19:25 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-03 20:25 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-03 21:47 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-03 16:32 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-03 22:59 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-04 00:21 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-04 11:46 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-03 23:13 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-04 17:21 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-04 16:28 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2013-02-03 14:26 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-04 11:37 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-03 13:17 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-04 08:38 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-04 09:04 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-04 10:29 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-04 09:34 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 03:06 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 03:01 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 09:08 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-02-04 17:34 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-04 16:44 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 02:36 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-02-05 01:49 -0800
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-05 15:03 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:07 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-05 20:22 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-05 22:27 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-06 00:06 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-06 04:32 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-06 11:50 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-06 04:22 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-06 15:37 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-05 22:13 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-02-05 23:38 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 02:26 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-05 10:31 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 13:41 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-05 12:56 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 14:08 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:24 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2013-02-05 20:14 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Aragorn <stryder@telenet.be.invalid> - 2013-02-06 06:27 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> - 2013-02-06 19:48 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? "Cybe R. Wizard" <cybe_r_wizard@wizardstower> - 2013-02-06 22:44 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? GooseMan <TheGoose@gonnagiveittothegander.org> - 2013-02-06 21:38 -0800
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-07 15:13 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? DanS <t.h.i.s.n.t.h.a.t@r.o.a.d.r.u.n.n.e.r.c.o.m> - 2013-02-10 08:09 -0600
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:10 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2013-02-05 21:51 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-02-05 22:32 +0000
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Meeh <meeh@i2pmail.org> - 2013-02-05 17:51 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-04 02:55 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-05 13:42 +0100
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-02-05 12:28 -0700
Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-02-09 20:58 +0100
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| From | Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-04 12:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <keo98k$g2m$1@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx> |
| In reply to | #8190 |
On 2013-02-03, crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> wrote: > On 02/02/2013 03:20 PM, Keith D. Lee wrote: >> All: >> What about Perl? >> > > Enjoy. No reason not to go back to the predecessor of PHP. That's > where PHP came from, y'know. php.net says some feaures were inspired by perl. > Some fellow whose name I don't recall > built it to do the things Perl wasn't set up for. google "PHP history" > there's a bit in wikipedia about it. That's no more "coming from perl" that what I write here is "coming from Crankypuss" -- ⚂⚃ 100% natural --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
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| From | crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-04 08:57 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <keolpd0dh7@news3.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #8242 |
On 02/04/2013 05:23 AM, Jasen Betts wrote: > On 2013-02-03, crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> wrote: >> On 02/02/2013 03:20 PM, Keith D. Lee wrote: >>> All: >>> What about Perl? >>> >> >> Enjoy. No reason not to go back to the predecessor of PHP. That's >> where PHP came from, y'know. > > php.net says some feaures were inspired by perl. > >> Some fellow whose name I don't recall >> built it to do the things Perl wasn't set up for. google "PHP history" >> there's a bit in wikipedia about it. > > That's no more "coming from perl" that what I write here is "coming > from Crankypuss" > Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit.
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| From | Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-05 14:04 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <51110360.2000400@arnowelzel.de> |
| In reply to | #8243 |
crankypuss, 2013-02-04 16:57: > On 02/04/2013 05:23 AM, Jasen Betts wrote: >> On 2013-02-03, crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> wrote: >>> On 02/02/2013 03:20 PM, Keith D. Lee wrote: >>>> All: >>>> What about Perl? >>>> >>> >>> Enjoy. No reason not to go back to the predecessor of PHP. That's >>> where PHP came from, y'know. >> >> php.net says some feaures were inspired by perl. >> >>> Some fellow whose name I don't recall >>> built it to do the things Perl wasn't set up for. google "PHP history" >>> there's a bit in wikipedia about it. >> >> That's no more "coming from perl" that what I write here is "coming >> from Crankypuss" >> > > Wikipedia, the encyclopedia anyone can edit. I just corrected this part in Wikipedia, since none of the cited sources refer to Perl at all - PHP was a set of binary tools written in C. They had nothing to do with Perl at all except some ideas for the syntax for the interpreter. -- Arno Welzel http://arnowelzel.de http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
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| From | Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-05 13:59 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <51110220.1090307@arnowelzel.de> |
| In reply to | #8190 |
crankypuss, 2013-02-03 12:13: > On 02/02/2013 03:20 PM, Keith D. Lee wrote: >> All: >> What about Perl? >> > > Enjoy. No reason not to go back to the predecessor of PHP. That's > where PHP came from, y'know. Some fellow whose name I don't recall > built it to do the things Perl wasn't set up for. google "PHP history" > there's a bit in wikipedia about it. Ahem - no, PHP did not come from Perl. Read the original source, not Google or Wikipedia: <http://www.php.net/manual/en/history.php.php> PHP took some ideas from Perl but originally PHP was just a set of CGI tools which had nothing to do with Perl at all. -- Arno Welzel http://arnowelzel.de http://de-rec-fahrrad.de
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| From | "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 10:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <an6qlcFq3gtU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> |
| In reply to | #8180 |
Am 02.02.2013 21:27, schrieb crankypuss: > (Apologies for the cross-post.) > > I don't like bash, haven't seen anything that crude since back in the days when I was > writing FORTRAN and BASIC, so I've been writing all of my local applications in PHP. > > The folks who frequent comp.lang.php seem to be pretty web-centric which makes sense > as far as that goes. The folks who frequent the various Linux fora seem pretty > bash-centric which also makes sense as far as that goes. > > As an aside, I've been using Linux for long enough now to realize how shell-centric > it is as an operating system; I'm somewhat blown away by that but it too makes its > own kind of sense. > > Is there a forum where the other folks (presuming there are any) who have been > writing applications in PHP hang out? Don't say "yeah dummy, go to comp.lang.python" > please, my homor quotient is maxed out for today. <g> The way it is now is the result of usage patterns and hype. Just from memory, and I'm talking about usage, not existence: First was the original (Bourne) shell, then came the Korn shell with some improvements you see now in the "Bourne again" shell. Then there was the perl hype. Then there was a short hype about Tcl, when after installation you had to build your kernel, and could do "make xconfig" (Tcl/Tk script). Only then came PHP as "private home page generator" or so. No wonder PHP is not used much on the command line. Python was last to come. Yes I think PHP Cli has got all it takes for programming, even signal handling. But in system administration the bash is the shell that starts Linux up. And for applications don't forget C, C++, Java, Pascal, and many many many ... /Str.
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| From | crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 04:20 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <kelh6g01gp8@news3.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #8185 |
On 02/03/2013 02:58 AM, M. Strobel wrote: > Am 02.02.2013 21:27, schrieb crankypuss: >> (Apologies for the cross-post.) >> >> I don't like bash, haven't seen anything that crude since back in the days when I was >> writing FORTRAN and BASIC, so I've been writing all of my local applications in PHP. >> >> The folks who frequent comp.lang.php seem to be pretty web-centric which makes sense >> as far as that goes. The folks who frequent the various Linux fora seem pretty >> bash-centric which also makes sense as far as that goes. >> >> As an aside, I've been using Linux for long enough now to realize how shell-centric >> it is as an operating system; I'm somewhat blown away by that but it too makes its >> own kind of sense. >> >> Is there a forum where the other folks (presuming there are any) who have been >> writing applications in PHP hang out? Don't say "yeah dummy, go to comp.lang.python" >> please, my homor quotient is maxed out for today. <g> > > The way it is now is the result of usage patterns and hype. > > Just from memory, and I'm talking about usage, not existence: > > First was the original (Bourne) shell, then came the Korn shell with some > improvements you see now in the "Bourne again" shell. Then there was the perl hype. > Then there was a short hype about Tcl, when after installation you had to build your > kernel, and could do "make xconfig" (Tcl/Tk script). Only then came PHP as "private > home page generator" or so. No wonder PHP is not used much on the command line. > Python was last to come. > > Yes I think PHP Cli has got all it takes for programming, even signal handling. But > in system administration the bash is the shell that starts Linux up. And for > applications don't forget C, C++, Java, Pascal, and many many many ... > > /Str. > The big question in my sick mind is whether to build a distro that uses PHP as its primary scripting language or build a new language that's what PHP could have been if it hadn't been mucked-about by all and sundry who gave it functions like is_array() and isset() and when a language doesn't even have consistent naming conventions well there ya go. <g> Then they stuck on some OOP functionality and OOP is what everybody thinks is the hot item but it's clumsier than hell to have to pass around a this-pointer and you can't slip another layer into an existing class derivation without rewriting half the world. Of course at the same time there's the struggle over screen i/o, everybody and his brother wants GUI which is fine except that character mode has its uses as well. The obvious compromise is an embedded app that uses PHP to write pages to an internal browser rendering engine but html has its limitations and damned if I'm wanting to get involved in javascript. Meanwhile back at the ranch I'm building applications based on a character-mode abstraction that runs on top of ncurses and just basically working my way out in both directions from there. Everybody needs a hobby, right? <g>
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| From | "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 12:44 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <an70sbFrgojU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #8191 |
On 03/02/13 12:20, crankypuss wrote: > The big question in my sick mind is whether to build a distro that uses > PHP as its primary scripting language or build a new language that's > what PHP could have been if it hadn't been mucked-about by all and > sundry who gave it functions like is_array() and isset() and when a > language doesn't even have consistent naming conventions well there ya > go. <g> There are loads of scripting languages, but you will always know that a Linux (including Unix too) will have a shell installed, which makes the shell scripting a lot more popular for you don't have to install another dependency to be able to run. If REXX been built in by default in the Linux/Unix world, then it would have been as popular for scripting as Arexx in the Amiga community and replacing shell scripting with something else will be something just for your own distro. One thing talking against PHP is the memory leaking that happens over time, writing a daemon you will have it to eat up memory and need to be restarted and it don't help to use unset() every time you are finished with a variable. > Then they stuck on some OOP functionality and OOP is what everybody > thinks is the hot item but it's clumsier than hell to have to pass > around a this-pointer and you can't slip another layer into an existing > class derivation without rewriting half the world. Nothing forces you to use OOP, OOP has it's beauties, but not always the optimal way to write the code. > Of course at the same time there's the struggle over screen i/o, > everybody and his brother wants GUI which is fine except that character > mode has its uses as well. Sure you can write desktop applications in PHP, but not all OS:es has gtk/qt/ncurses bindings and not all Linux distributions has those available from the official repository, which makes PHP a poor option to write desktop applications. > The obvious compromise is an embedded app > that uses PHP to write pages to an internal browser rendering engine but > html has its limitations and damned if I'm wanting to get involved in > javascript. PHP was made for the web and it's where it has it's strengths and to make things faster and smother javascript will be a part of your life. If you want something cross-platform, then look at mono, sure it's larger to install than PHP, but the benefit is that you can make applications that will run on multiple platforms. -- //Aho
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 11:50 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <kelit7$1lg$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #8192 |
On 03/02/13 11:44, J.O. Aho wrote: > On 03/02/13 12:20, crankypuss wrote: > >> The big question in my sick mind is whether to build a distro that uses >> PHP as its primary scripting language or build a new language that's >> what PHP could have been if it hadn't been mucked-about by all and >> sundry who gave it functions like is_array() and isset() and when a >> language doesn't even have consistent naming conventions well there ya >> go. <g> > > There are loads of scripting languages, but you will always know that a > Linux (including Unix too) will have a shell installed, which makes the > shell scripting a lot more popular for you don't have to install another > dependency to be able to run. If REXX been built in by default in the > Linux/Unix world, then it would have been as popular for scripting as > Arexx in the Amiga community and replacing shell scripting with > something else will be something just for your own distro. > > One thing talking against PHP is the memory leaking that happens over > time, writing a daemon you will have it to eat up memory and need to be > restarted and it don't help to use unset() every time you are finished > with a variable. > > >> Then they stuck on some OOP functionality and OOP is what everybody >> thinks is the hot item but it's clumsier than hell to have to pass >> around a this-pointer and you can't slip another layer into an existing >> class derivation without rewriting half the world. > > Nothing forces you to use OOP, OOP has it's beauties, but not always the > optimal way to write the code. > > >> Of course at the same time there's the struggle over screen i/o, >> everybody and his brother wants GUI which is fine except that character >> mode has its uses as well. > > Sure you can write desktop applications in PHP, but not all OS:es has > gtk/qt/ncurses bindings and not all Linux distributions has those > available from the official repository, which makes PHP a poor option to > write desktop applications. > > >> The obvious compromise is an embedded app >> that uses PHP to write pages to an internal browser rendering engine but >> html has its limitations and damned if I'm wanting to get involved in >> javascript. > > PHP was made for the web and it's where it has it's strengths and to > make things faster and smother javascript will be a part of your life. > > > If you want something cross-platform, then look at mono, sure it's > larger to install than PHP, but the benefit is that you can make > applications that will run on multiple platforms. > java is probably the most popular cross platform interpreted language. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
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| From | "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 13:47 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <an74juFsajmU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #8193 |
On 03/02/13 12:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> If you want something cross-platform, then look at mono, sure it's >> larger to install than PHP, but the benefit is that you can make >> applications that will run on multiple platforms. >> > java is probably the most popular cross platform interpreted language. > > Sure it is, but also the one which has been struggling with security issues and do not feel to be something to recommend nowadays, but lets see if Oracle has the will to fix the issues. I have to say I feel C# applications on Linux to be smother than Java, but then I don't use much of either. -- //Aho
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 13:23 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <keloc5$dq7$4@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #8195 |
On 03/02/13 12:47, J.O. Aho wrote: > On 03/02/13 12:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >>> If you want something cross-platform, then look at mono, sure it's >>> larger to install than PHP, but the benefit is that you can make >>> applications that will run on multiple platforms. >>> >> java is probably the most popular cross platform interpreted language. >> >> > Sure it is, but also the one which has been struggling with security > issues and do not feel to be something to recommend nowadays, but lets > see if Oracle has the will to fix the issues. > No argument with that: I merely said it was popular. > I have to say I feel C# applications on Linux to be smother than Java, > but then I don't use much of either. > frankly if I were coding anything for a Linux desktop I'd use C/C++. Mostly because the support is guaranteed, the libraries will all be there, and that's what most of the rest is written in. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
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| From | Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-04 11:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <keo682$dvk$4@gonzo.reversiblemaps.ath.cx> |
| In reply to | #8195 |
On 2013-02-03, J.O. Aho <user@example.net> wrote: > On 03/02/13 12:50, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >>> If you want something cross-platform, then look at mono, sure it's >>> larger to install than PHP, but the benefit is that you can make >>> applications that will run on multiple platforms. >>> >> java is probably the most popular cross platform interpreted language. >> >> > Sure it is, but also the one which has been struggling with security > issues and do not feel to be something to recommend nowadays, but lets > see if Oracle has the will to fix the issues. Simple. don't use Oracle Java. use one of the other two (or more?) flavours. > I have to say I feel C# applications on Linux to be smother than Java, > but then I don't use much of either. yeah, half the cross platform stuff I use runs under Mono, a third under Java and the rest is written in one of the oldest cross-platform languages of all: C. -- ⚂⚃ 100% natural --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
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| From | crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 11:43 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <kemb3n11u23@news1.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #8193 |
On 02/03/2013 04:50 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 03/02/13 11:44, J.O. Aho wrote: >> On 03/02/13 12:20, crankypuss wrote: >> >>> The big question in my sick mind is whether to build a distro that uses >>> PHP as its primary scripting language or build a new language that's >>> what PHP could have been if it hadn't been mucked-about by all and >>> sundry who gave it functions like is_array() and isset() and when a >>> language doesn't even have consistent naming conventions well there ya >>> go. <g> >> >> There are loads of scripting languages, but you will always know that a >> Linux (including Unix too) will have a shell installed, which makes the >> shell scripting a lot more popular for you don't have to install another >> dependency to be able to run. If REXX been built in by default in the >> Linux/Unix world, then it would have been as popular for scripting as >> Arexx in the Amiga community and replacing shell scripting with >> something else will be something just for your own distro. >> >> One thing talking against PHP is the memory leaking that happens over >> time, writing a daemon you will have it to eat up memory and need to be >> restarted and it don't help to use unset() every time you are finished >> with a variable. >> >> >>> Then they stuck on some OOP functionality and OOP is what everybody >>> thinks is the hot item but it's clumsier than hell to have to pass >>> around a this-pointer and you can't slip another layer into an existing >>> class derivation without rewriting half the world. >> >> Nothing forces you to use OOP, OOP has it's beauties, but not always the >> optimal way to write the code. >> >> >>> Of course at the same time there's the struggle over screen i/o, >>> everybody and his brother wants GUI which is fine except that character >>> mode has its uses as well. >> >> Sure you can write desktop applications in PHP, but not all OS:es has >> gtk/qt/ncurses bindings and not all Linux distributions has those >> available from the official repository, which makes PHP a poor option to >> write desktop applications. >> >> >>> The obvious compromise is an embedded app >>> that uses PHP to write pages to an internal browser rendering engine but >>> html has its limitations and damned if I'm wanting to get involved in >>> javascript. >> >> PHP was made for the web and it's where it has it's strengths and to >> make things faster and smother javascript will be a part of your life. >> >> >> If you want something cross-platform, then look at mono, sure it's >> larger to install than PHP, but the benefit is that you can make >> applications that will run on multiple platforms. >> > java is probably the most popular cross platform interpreted language. > > And McDonalds probably sells more bad hamburgers than anybody else.
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| From | J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 13:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <kelnh0$9u1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #8185 |
On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 10:58:04h +0100, M. Strobel wrote: > But in system administration the bash is the shell that starts Linux up. Most of the major distributions do not use bash as the startup shell, but dash to provide a Bourne shell (not Bourne Again shell).
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| From | "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 14:49 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? |
| Message-ID | <an7883Ft30iU1@mid.uni-berlin.de> |
| In reply to | #8196 |
Am 03.02.2013 14:08, schrieb J G Miller: > On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 10:58:04h +0100, M. Strobel wrote: > >> But in system administration the bash is the shell that starts Linux up. > > Most of the major distributions do not use bash as the startup shell, > but dash to provide a Bourne shell (not Bourne Again shell). > And in which distributions /bin/sh is not a link to /bin/bash? /Str.
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| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 08:16 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? |
| Message-ID | <87d2wh5vq7.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org> |
| In reply to | #8199 |
M. Strobel writes: > And in which distributions /bin/sh is not a link to /bin/bash? Debian and derivatives. Debian has used Dash for some years. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 15:28 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? |
| Message-ID | <878v75s9gv.fsf@araminta.anjou.terraraq.org.uk> |
| In reply to | #8200 |
John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> writes: > M. Strobel writes: >> And in which distributions /bin/sh is not a link to /bin/bash? > Debian and derivatives. Debian has used Dash for some years. “is not a link to bash” is a little strong - /bin/sh could easily be either dash or bash on a Debian system. I have systems with both configurations, for instance. (And on any given system the operator may have done something else again.) -- http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
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| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 09:39 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? |
| Message-ID | <8762295rv9.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org> |
| In reply to | #8202 |
I wrote: > Debian and derivatives. Debian has used Dash for some years. Richard Kettlewell writes: > “is not a link to bash” is a little strong - /bin/sh could easily be > either dash or bash on a Debian system. I have systems with both > configurations, for instance. You can change it to whatever you want, of course, but it has been Dash by default for years. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 17:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? |
| Message-ID | <an7ir4F15a5U1@mid.uni-berlin.de> |
| In reply to | #8200 |
Am 03.02.2013 15:16, schrieb John Hasler: > M. Strobel writes: >> And in which distributions /bin/sh is not a link to /bin/bash? > > Debian and derivatives. Debian has used Dash for some years. > Oh, and I have an Ubuntu here and did not notice. Dash is presumably faster, but is only sh compatible. And the change forced people to adhere to the lower sh standards. I would have tried to optimize bash, but then the shell syntax is awkward anyway. Better use a full scripting language. Size comparison executable plus linked libraries in Ubuntu 12.04: dash 2021K bash 3016K tclsh 4191K perl 4637K python 8349K PHP 17167K /Str.
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| From | John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 11:24 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? |
| Message-ID | <87txpt48gb.fsf@thumper.dhh.gt.org> |
| In reply to | #8204 |
M. Strobel writes: > Oh, and I have an Ubuntu here and did not notice. As I said: Debian derivatives. > Dash is presumably faster, but is only sh compatible. And the change > forced people to adhere to the lower sh standards. Bash is still an essential package and so always present. Maintainers are free to use it in scripts. They just have to call it explicitly. Bash is also the default login shell. -- John Hasler jhasler@newsguy.com Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI USA
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| From | J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-03 19:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: anyone else writing Linux (or cross-system) applications in PHP? |
| Message-ID | <kemdjh$db2$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #8207 |
On Sunday, February 3rd, 2013, at 11:24:04h -0600, John Hasler wrote: > M. Strobel writes: >> Oh, and I have an Ubuntu here and did not notice. > > As I said: Debian derivatives. > >> Dash is presumably faster, but is only sh compatible. And the change >> forced people to adhere to the lower sh standards. > > Bash is still an essential package and so always present. Indeed so and nobody is or should be arguing otherwise. The point raised was solely with respect to "bash is the shell that starts Linux up." > Maintainers are free to use it in scripts. Certainly not boot time scripts and it appears that it is frowned upon for other scripts. <http://lintian.debian.org/tags/possible-bashism-in-maintainer-script.html> Ubuntu also adopted the policy of not using bashisms in startup scripts. <https://wiki.ubuntu.COM/DashAsBinSh> > Bash is also the default login shell. But can easily be changed to tcsh for the users. ;)
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