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Groups > comp.lang.php > #1486 > unrolled thread

mouse movement detection?

Started byrichard <member@newsguy.com>
First post2011-05-10 09:57 -0700
Last post2011-05-11 11:33 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 55 — 12 participants

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  mouse movement detection? richard <member@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-10 09:57 -0700
    Re: mouse movement detection? Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2011-05-10 21:11 +0200
      Re: mouse movement detection? richard <member@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-10 12:23 -0700
        Re: mouse movement detection? "P E Schoen" <paul@pstech-inc.com> - 2011-05-10 15:42 -0400
          Re: mouse movement detection? richard <member@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-10 13:56 -0700
            Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-10 21:15 +0000
        Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-10 19:40 +0000
          Re: mouse movement detection? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2011-05-10 15:10 -0500
            Re: mouse movement detection? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-05-10 23:52 +0200
              Re: mouse movement detection? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-05-10 20:03 -0400
                Re: mouse movement detection? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-05-11 10:49 +0200
                  Re: mouse movement detection? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-05-11 06:39 -0400
                    Re: mouse movement detection? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-05-11 14:24 +0200
                      Re: mouse movement detection? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-05-11 11:25 -0400
                Re: mouse movement detection? Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com> - 2011-05-11 11:36 -0400
                  Re: mouse movement detection? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-05-11 12:30 -0400
              Re: mouse movement detection? Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2011-05-10 20:24 -0500
                Re: mouse movement detection? Erwin Moller <Since_humans_read_this_I_am_spammed_too_much@spamyourself.com> - 2011-05-11 08:16 +0200
                Re: mouse movement detection? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-05-11 11:02 +0200
    Re: mouse movement detection? Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2011-05-11 13:18 +1000
      Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-11 04:00 +0000
        Re: mouse movement detection? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-05-11 11:11 +0200
          Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-11 16:57 +0000
            Re: mouse movement detection? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-05-11 22:42 +0200
        Re: mouse movement detection? Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2011-05-11 23:34 +1000
          Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-11 16:53 +0000
            Re: mouse movement detection? Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2011-05-12 12:26 +1000
              Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-12 04:35 +0000
                Re: mouse movement detection? Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2011-05-12 16:09 +1000
                  Re: mouse movement detection? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-05-12 06:52 -0400
                    Re: mouse movement detection? Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2011-05-13 06:48 +1000
                  Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-12 16:12 +0000
                    Re: mouse movement detection? Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2011-05-13 07:36 +1000
                      Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-12 22:05 +0000
                        Re: mouse movement detection? Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2011-05-13 10:14 +1000
                          Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-13 00:56 +0000
                            Re: mouse movement detection? Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2011-05-13 20:34 +1000
                              Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-13 15:36 +0000
                                Re: mouse movement detection? Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2011-05-14 10:01 +1000
                                  Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-14 03:51 +0000
                                    Re: mouse movement detection? Jeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au> - 2011-05-14 15:00 +1000
                                      Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-14 06:00 +0000
                        Re: mouse movement detection? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-05-15 13:35 +0200
                          Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-15 16:41 +0000
                            Re: mouse movement detection? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-05-15 13:00 -0400
                              Re: mouse movement detection? "Twayne" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> - 2011-05-17 11:37 -0400
                                Re: mouse movement detection? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2011-05-17 12:34 -0400
                            Re: mouse movement detection? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-05-16 00:36 +0200
                              Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-16 02:07 +0000
                                Re: mouse movement detection? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2011-05-17 22:33 +0200
                                  Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-17 20:52 +0000
                                    Re: mouse movement detection? "P E Schoen" <paul@pstech-inc.com> - 2011-05-18 08:10 -0400
                                      Re: mouse movement detection? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2011-05-18 15:20 +0000
                          Re: mouse movement detection? dougatmilmacdotcom@example.com (Doug Miller) - 2011-05-16 12:00 +0000
    Re: mouse movement detection? Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com> - 2011-05-11 11:33 -0400

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#1486 — mouse movement detection?

Fromrichard <member@newsguy.com>
Date2011-05-10 09:57 -0700
Subjectmouse movement detection?
Message-ID<5jmrvpnl392w$.dlg@evanplatt.sux>
Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
detecting mouse movement.
I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
minutes.
I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
page for a couple of hours.

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#1487

FromGregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com>
Date2011-05-10 21:11 +0200
Message-ID<iqc2lc$t0c$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1486
Am 2011-05-10 18:57, richard meinte:
> Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
> detecting mouse movement.

No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse attached to a
client computer.

> I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
> been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
> minutes.
> I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
> page for a couple of hours.

You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...

All you did was not creating a request which could be detected by the
server (though this request could be invoked by JS without explicit
interaction, too).

Gregor


-- 
http://vxweb.net

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#1488

Fromrichard <member@newsguy.com>
Date2011-05-10 12:23 -0700
Message-ID<1l6ipxzio1vee$.dlg@evanplatt.sux>
In reply to#1487
On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:

> Am 2011-05-10 18:57, richard meinte:
>> Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>> detecting mouse movement.
> 
> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse attached to a
> client computer.
> 
>> I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
>> been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
>> minutes.
>> I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
>> page for a couple of hours.
> 
> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
> 
> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected by the
> server (though this request could be invoked by JS without explicit
> interaction, too).
> 
> Gregor

that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.

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#1489

From"P E Schoen" <paul@pstech-inc.com>
Date2011-05-10 15:42 -0400
Message-ID<iqc4ga$d4c$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#1488
"richard"  wrote in message news:1l6ipxzio1vee$.dlg@evanplatt.sux...

> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:

>> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse
> attached to a client computer.
>
>> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
>
>> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected
>> by the server (though this request could be invoked by JS without
>> explicit interaction, too).

> that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.

It would be interesting to check the source of the HTML of the original web 
page. The server-side PHP script could generate JavaScript that invokes a 
timer and also an event handler for mouse movement.

    http://www.toknowmore.net/e/1/javascript/javascript-onmousemove.php

The mousemove event would reset the timer, so if no movement was detected, 
the timeout would occur and the client-side webpage could post to the 
server, which would then send the new web page to the client.

Paul 

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#1492

Fromrichard <member@newsguy.com>
Date2011-05-10 13:56 -0700
Message-ID<9csm8a0ckbkp$.dlg@evanplatt.sux>
In reply to#1489
On Tue, 10 May 2011 15:42:54 -0400, P E Schoen wrote:

> "richard"  wrote in message news:1l6ipxzio1vee$.dlg@evanplatt.sux...
> 
>> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:
> 
>>> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse
>> attached to a client computer.
>>
>>> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
>>
>>> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected
>>> by the server (though this request could be invoked by JS without
>>> explicit interaction, too).
> 
>> that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.
> 
> It would be interesting to check the source of the HTML of the original web 
> page. The server-side PHP script could generate JavaScript that invokes a 
> timer and also an event handler for mouse movement.
> 
>     http://www.toknowmore.net/e/1/javascript/javascript-onmousemove.php
> 
> The mousemove event would reset the timer, so if no movement was detected, 
> the timeout would occur and the client-side webpage could post to the 
> server, which would then send the new web page to the client.
> 
> Paul

www.bidrack.com

Just leave the page open for an hour or so and see what happens.

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#1493

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2011-05-10 21:15 +0000
Message-ID<lgmo98-dqi.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#1492
richard <member@newsguy.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2011 15:42:54 -0400, P E Schoen wrote:
> 
>> "richard"  wrote in message news:1l6ipxzio1vee$.dlg@evanplatt.sux...
>> 
>>> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:
>> 
>>>> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse
>>> attached to a client computer.
>>>
>>>> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
>>>
>>>> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected
>>>> by the server (though this request could be invoked by JS without
>>>> explicit interaction, too).
>> 
>>> that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.
>> 
>> It would be interesting to check the source of the HTML of the original web 
>> page. The server-side PHP script could generate JavaScript that invokes a 
>> timer and also an event handler for mouse movement.
>> 
>>     http://www.toknowmore.net/e/1/javascript/javascript-onmousemove.php
>> 
>> The mousemove event would reset the timer, so if no movement was detected, 
>> the timeout would occur and the client-side webpage could post to the 
>> server, which would then send the new web page to the client.
>> 
>> Paul
> 
> www.bidrack.com
> 
> Just leave the page open for an hour or so and see what happens.

You don't have to leave the page open for an hour.

Access the page with a javascript debugger like Firebug installed and
watch as all the javascript and timers are downloaded.


-- 
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

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#1490

Fromjimp@specsol.spam.sux.com
Date2011-05-10 19:40 +0000
Message-ID<ptgo98-g2i.ln1@mail.specsol.com>
In reply to#1488
richard <member@newsguy.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:
> 
>> Am 2011-05-10 18:57, richard meinte:
>>> Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>>> detecting mouse movement.
>> 
>> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse attached to a
>> client computer.
>> 
>>> I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
>>> been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
>>> minutes.
>>> I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
>>> page for a couple of hours.
>> 
>> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
>> 
>> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected by the
>> server (though this request could be invoked by JS without explicit
>> interaction, too).
>> 
>> Gregor
> 
> that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.

Nope, a cookie can't tell if the mouse has moved, all it can determine is
that nothing had been clicked since the last reload.

To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
timeout occured or a load another page.



-- 
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

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#1491

FromRobert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com>
Date2011-05-10 15:10 -0500
Message-ID<huidnaBLyuIwBlTQnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@posted.localnet>
In reply to#1490
At Tue, 10 May 2011 19:40:09 -0000 jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:

> 
> richard <member@newsguy.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:11:39 +0200, Gregor Kofler wrote:
> > 
> >> Am 2011-05-10 18:57, richard meinte:
> >>> Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
> >>> detecting mouse movement.
> >> 
> >> No server side script can detect the movement of a mouse attached to a
> >> client computer.
> >> 
> >>> I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
> >>> been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
> >>> minutes.
> >>> I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
> >>> page for a couple of hours.
> >> 
> >> You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet...
> >> 
> >> All you did was not creating a request which could be detected by the
> >> server (though this request could be invoked by JS without explicit
> >> interaction, too).
> >> 
> >> Gregor
> > 
> > that's what I figured. Probably done through a cookie check.
> 
> Nope, a cookie can't tell if the mouse has moved, all it can determine is
> that nothing had been clicked since the last reload.
> 
> To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
> like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
> ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
> timeout occured or a load another page.

Right.  JavaScript is your *enemy*...  Many webpages have more
JavaScript than HTML...  In some cases, the site practically downloads
the whole site and then does everything with JavaScript and the
occasional use of AJAX.  Which is probably great if you have an
insanely fast computer on an insanely fast Internet connection.  Such
sites totally suck on slower computers and esp. on slow (read: dialup)
Internet connections.  Of course these JS timeout hacks fail when they
timeout and there is nolonger a network connection (sorry guys, I hung
up the phone...).

> 
> 
> 

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                                                      

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#1494

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2011-05-10 23:52 +0200
Message-ID<2043424.lGaqSPkdTl@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#1491
Robert Heller wrote:

> At Tue, 10 May 2011 19:40:09 -0000 jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>> To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
>> like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
>> ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
>> timeout occured or a load another page.
> 
> Right.  JavaScript is your *enemy*...

Nonsense.  Script-kiddies, wannabes, stupid people, are.

> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...

That goes without saying.  One is a markup language, the other a programming 
language.  There are things you can do in a programming language that you 
cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.

> In some cases, the site practically downloads the whole site and then does
> everything with JavaScript and the occasional use of AJAX.

That is *abuse*, which can be attributed to stupid people, but not the 
language or the technology per se.  After all, you can do some pretty stupid 
things with HTML, CSS, or PHP, too.

You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know 
what you are talking about.


PointedEars
-- 
    realism:    HTML 4.01 Strict
    evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
    madness:    XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
                                                    -- Bjoern Hoehrmann

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#1495

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2011-05-10 20:03 -0400
Message-ID<iqcjpe$qv9$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1494
On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Robert Heller wrote:
>
>> At Tue, 10 May 2011 19:40:09 -0000 jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>> To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
>>> like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
>>> ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
>>> timeout occured or a load another page.
>>
>> Right.  JavaScript is your *enemy*...
>
> Nonsense.  Script-kiddies, wannabes, stupid people, are.
>
>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>
> That goes without saying.  One is a markup language, the other a programming
> language.  There are things you can do in a programming language that you
> cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.
>

Javascript IS a programming language.

>> In some cases, the site practically downloads the whole site and then does
>> everything with JavaScript and the occasional use of AJAX.
>
> That is *abuse*, which can be attributed to stupid people, but not the
> language or the technology per se.  After all, you can do some pretty stupid
> things with HTML, CSS, or PHP, too.
>
> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
> what you are talking about.
>

You should follow your own advice.

>
> PointedEars


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#1506

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2011-05-11 10:49 +0200
Message-ID<4241497.rdbgypaU67@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#1495
Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>
>> That goes without saying.  One is a markup language, the other a
>> programming language.  There are things you can do in a programming
>> language that you cannot do in a markup language, but that usually
>> requires more characters.
> 
> Javascript IS a programming language.

There is no "Javascript".  However, if you had paid attention, you would 
have noticed that I did not say that JavaScript was not a programming 
language.

>> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
>> what you are talking about.
>>
>
> You should follow your own advice.
 
Pot, kettle, black.


PointedEars
-- 
Prototype.js was written by people who don't know javascript for people
who don't know javascript. People who don't know javascript are not
the best source of advice on designing systems that use javascript.
  -- Richard Cornford, cljs, <f806at$ail$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>

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#1511

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2011-05-11 06:39 -0400
Message-ID<iqdp1b$tjv$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1506
On 5/11/2011 4:49 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>>
>>> That goes without saying.  One is a markup language, the other a
>>> programming language.  There are things you can do in a programming
>>> language that you cannot do in a markup language, but that usually
>>> requires more characters.
>>
>> Javascript IS a programming language.
>
> There is no "Javascript".  However, if you had paid attention, you would
> have noticed that I did not say that JavaScript was not a programming
> language.
>

Can't even understand your own rantings now, I see.

>>> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
>>> what you are talking about.
>>>
>>
>> You should follow your own advice.
>
> Pot, kettle, black.
>
>
> PointedEars

And still blaming the rest of the world for your screwups.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#1516

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2011-05-11 14:24 +0200
Message-ID<16524603.4csPzL39Zc@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#1511
Jerry Stuckle wrote:

> On 5/11/2011 4:49 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>>>
>>>> That goes without saying.  One is a markup language, the other a
>>>> programming language.  There are things you can do in a programming
>>>> language that you cannot do in a markup language, but that usually
>>>> requires more characters.
>>>
>>> Javascript IS a programming language.
>>
>> There is no "Javascript".  However, if you had paid attention, you would
>> have noticed that I did not say that JavaScript was not a programming
>> language.
> 
> Can't even understand your own rantings now, I see.

I know what I have written, and how it was meant.  But I can see how you 
might already be challenged by commutativity, so here it is in slightly 
simpler terms: If there are two balls in a box, a red one and a blue one, 
then one of them is blue.


HTH

PointedEars
-- 
Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on
a Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web,
when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another
computer, another word processor, or another network. -- Tim Berners-Lee

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#1524

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2011-05-11 11:25 -0400
Message-ID<iqe9ov$cij$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1516
On 5/11/2011 8:24 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>
>> On 5/11/2011 4:49 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>>>> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>>>>
>>>>> That goes without saying.  One is a markup language, the other a
>>>>> programming language.  There are things you can do in a programming
>>>>> language that you cannot do in a markup language, but that usually
>>>>> requires more characters.
>>>>
>>>> Javascript IS a programming language.
>>>
>>> There is no "Javascript".  However, if you had paid attention, you would
>>> have noticed that I did not say that JavaScript was not a programming
>>> language.
>>
>> Can't even understand your own rantings now, I see.
>
> I know what I have written, and how it was meant.  But I can see how you
> might already be challenged by commutativity, so here it is in slightly
> simpler terms: If there are two balls in a box, a red one and a blue one,
> then one of them is blue.
>
>
> HTH
>
> PointedEars

ROFLMAO!  Still trying to twist your way out of once again showing you 
have no idea what you're talking about.  But that's OK - you're well 
known for not knowing anything in several newsgroups - not just this one.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#1527

FromSherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com>
Date2011-05-11 11:36 -0400
Message-ID<87vcxhtfk9.fsf@sherm.shermpendley.com>
In reply to#1495
Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> writes:

> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>
>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>
>> That goes without saying.  One is a markup language, the other a programming
>> language.  There are things you can do in a programming language that you
>> cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.
>
> Javascript IS a programming language.

Yes, and the other (HTML) is a markup language. What are you going on
about then?

sherm--

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#1529

FromJerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Date2011-05-11 12:30 -0400
Message-ID<iqedie$k46$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1527
On 5/11/2011 11:36 AM, Sherm Pendley wrote:
> Jerry Stuckle<jstucklex@attglobal.net>  writes:
>
>> On 5/10/2011 5:52 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>>
>>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>>
>>> That goes without saying.  One is a markup language, the other a programming
>>> language.  There are things you can do in a programming language that you
>>> cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.
>>
>> Javascript IS a programming language.
>
> Yes, and the other (HTML) is a markup language. What are you going on
> about then?
>
> sherm--

Because the discussion was about PHP and Javascript.  "Pointed Head" is 
the only one who brought up HTML.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#1497

FromRobert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com>
Date2011-05-10 20:24 -0500
Message-ID<dqSdncEG4bLQeFTQnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@posted.localnet>
In reply to#1494
At Tue, 10 May 2011 23:52:11 +0200 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> wrote:

> 
> Robert Heller wrote:
> 
> > At Tue, 10 May 2011 19:40:09 -0000 jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
> >> To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
> >> like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
> >> ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
> >> timeout occured or a load another page.
> > 
> > Right.  JavaScript is your *enemy*...
> 
> Nonsense.  Script-kiddies, wannabes, stupid people, are.
> 
> > Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
> 
> That goes without saying.  One is a markup language, the other a programming 
> language.  There are things you can do in a programming language that you 
> cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.
> 
> > In some cases, the site practically downloads the whole site and then does
> > everything with JavaScript and the occasional use of AJAX.
> 
> That is *abuse*, which can be attributed to stupid people, but not the 
> language or the technology per se.  After all, you can do some pretty stupid 
> things with HTML, CSS, or PHP, too.

There are many of these 'abusive' websites...

> 
> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know 
> what you are talking about.

Web sites that use JavaScript to redirect after a timeout period are
another form of abuse.

> 
> 
> PointedEars

-- 
Robert Heller             -- 978-544-6933 / heller@deepsoft.com
Deepwoods Software        -- http://www.deepsoft.com/
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments


                                                                                                                              

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#1501

FromErwin Moller <Since_humans_read_this_I_am_spammed_too_much@spamyourself.com>
Date2011-05-11 08:16 +0200
Message-ID<4dca2997$0$81478$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#1497
On 5/11/2011 3:24 AM, Robert Heller wrote:
> At Tue, 10 May 2011 23:52:11 +0200 Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn<PointedEars@web.de>  wrote:
>
>>
>> Robert Heller wrote:
>>
>>> At Tue, 10 May 2011 19:40:09 -0000 jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
>>>> To detect if the mouse moved, you would have to use something client side
>>>> like javascript to run a timer which resets on mouse actions and if it
>>>> ever times out, cause either a reload with a send to the server that the
>>>> timeout occured or a load another page.
>>>
>>> Right.  JavaScript is your *enemy*...
>>
>> Nonsense.  Script-kiddies, wannabes, stupid people, are.
>>
>>> Many webpages have more JavaScript than HTML...
>>
>> That goes without saying.  One is a markup language, the other a programming
>> language.  There are things you can do in a programming language that you
>> cannot do in a markup language, but that usually requires more characters.
>>
>>> In some cases, the site practically downloads the whole site and then does
>>> everything with JavaScript and the occasional use of AJAX.
>>
>> That is *abuse*, which can be attributed to stupid people, but not the
>> language or the technology per se.  After all, you can do some pretty stupid
>> things with HTML, CSS, or PHP, too.
>
> There are many of these 'abusive' websites...
>
>>
>> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
>> what you are talking about.
>
> Web sites that use JavaScript to redirect after a timeout period are
> another form of abuse.

Agree.
JavaScript is abused most of the time in my humble opinion. But it can 
also be a very useful tool to bring life to a webpage.
I agree with Thomas that "Nonsense.  Script-kiddies, wannabes, stupid 
people, are [the enemy].".

Tip:
1) Use firefox
2) Install an add-on named NoScript.

Make your life easier if you dislike JavaScript-heavy websites.
You can adjust which domains you allow to load/use JavaScript into the 
webpage you are visiting.
It is an easy to use add-on and you don't need arcane knowledge to 
activate or use it.

Regards,
Erwin Moller

>
>>
>>
>> PointedEars
>


-- 
"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without 
evidence."
-- Christopher Hitchens

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#1507

FromThomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
Date2011-05-11 11:02 +0200
Message-ID<2635405.LZWGnKmheA@PointedEars.de>
In reply to#1497
Robert Heller wrote:

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Robert Heller wrote:
>> > In some cases, the site practically downloads the whole site and then
>> > does everything with JavaScript and the occasional use of AJAX.
>> 
>> That is *abuse*, which can be attributed to stupid people, but not the
>> language or the technology per se.  After all, you can do some pretty
>> stupid things with HTML, CSS, or PHP, too.
> 
> There are many of these 'abusive' websites...

Your argument is fallacious.  There are many badly written Web sites, 
regardless of the underlying technology.

>> You would be well-advised to keep your opinion to yourself until you know
>> what you are talking about.
> 
> Web sites that use JavaScript to redirect after a timeout period are
> another form of abuse.

That depends on the use-case.  For example, it is actually a Good Idea to 
have a client-side script log you out automatically after you have been idle 
for a defined time; it prevents others from abusing your login for cracking 
their way into the system.  If possible, that timeout should be user-
defined, though.  For example, I am frequently irritated by Outlook Web 
Access logging me out too soon, and there appears to be no built-in way for 
me to increase the timeout from the client side (I can think of a 
Greasemonkey script to work around it of course, but not all OWA users are 
programmers).

BTW, this is quite off-topic here.


PointedEars
-- 
Prototype.js was written by people who don't know javascript for people
who don't know javascript. People who don't know javascript are not
the best source of advice on designing systems that use javascript.
  -- Richard Cornford, cljs, <f806at$ail$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>

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#1499

FromJeff North <jnorthau@yahoo.com.au>
Date2011-05-11 13:18 +1000
Message-ID<ctvjs6tsn7pf4598bq3jhrp3ldkao071hu@4ax.com>
In reply to#1486
On Tue, 10 May 2011 09:57:16 -0700, in comp.lang.php richard
<member@newsguy.com>
<5jmrvpnl392w$.dlg@evanplatt.sux> wrote:

>| Just curious to know if PHP, or other script language, has a method of
>| detecting mouse movement.
>| I had left a website page open all night and in the morning found I had
>| been transferred to another page that said my mouse had been idle for 10
>| minutes.
>| I have a hunch that it was probably due more to nothing happening on the
>| page for a couple of hours.


It could be javascript and timers or the page header has a refresh
setting <meta http-equiv="refresh" content="600"> 

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