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Groups > comp.lang.php > #9440
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.php |
| Subject | Re: bug in is_numeric |
| Date | 2013-05-19 07:49 +0100 |
| Organization | albasani.net |
| Message-ID | <kn9sle$sl6$1@news.albasani.net> (permalink) |
| References | (16 earlier) <EoOlt.8829$JB5.7442@newsfe26.iad> <kn8h95$khj$1@dont-email.me> <kn8tif$1h4$1@dont-email.me> <kn9272$bcv$1@dont-email.me> <kn9d08$1h4$3@dont-email.me> |
On 19/05/13 03:22, Denis McMahon wrote: > On Sat, 18 May 2013 19:21:54 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote: > >> On 5/18/2013 5:58 PM, Denis McMahon wrote: >>> On Sat, 18 May 2013 14:32:53 -0400, Jerry Stuckle wrote: >>> >>>> But no matter what the original name was - TODAY'S use is what counts. >>>> It is a threaded discussion group, and threads exist for a reason. >>> Technically threading is a client feature by virtue of how client >>> software uses and displays the references and in-reply-to headers on >>> the individual messages. >>> >>> As neither of those headers is mandatory in newsgroup messages, the >>> newsgroup as such, technically, is not in and of itself threaded, >>> rather it is a group in which threaded discussions may be posted. >> Nope. RFC1036 defines the "References" header used to refer to a >> previous message. It is a part of the Use net protocol. > As I said, the header is not mandatory - I'm not discussing whether it's > part of the protocol, it clearly is, but it is not mandatory for every > post to have a references header[1]. > > Nor is it mandatory for any client to pay any attention to such a header > if present[2]. > > [1] A "new post" (as opposed to a "follow-up" or "reply") does not > usually have a references header, as it does not usually reference a > prior message. > > [2] Although IMO it would be a pretty crap news client that didn't. > Drifting slightly off topic, but there is a reason, the whole concept underlying the Internet is that it never was a set of enforced standards: That was the way X400 /X-25 worked. But the standards were so massive that it was extremely onerous to comply with all of them and that made the software expensive and clunky. Internet has always been the mininmal solution to a real world problem, with standards being reached by mutal agreement (the RFC process) and tested against reality at 'Interops' . The NNTP/SMTP header files are one of those areas. You don't actually have to set any of them. I.e. the SMTP conversation for a message transfer is simply one where a server says 'I have a message from X to Y' followed by the message content which may or may not include headers at all Anything in the headers is not the business of the transfer protocol as such: Its the business of the user agents and the MTAS. So the guiding philosophy of the internet has never been (much to the chagrin of those who like the smart uniforms, the jackboots and the polished leather) to have rules enforced by a central agency: No it is quite simply that if you want to actually use the internet, you had better comply with mutually agreed standards or you will simply be ignored. Return-receipt-to: is, for example, an RFC defined part of mail headers, but there is no requirement to send it, or to respond to it. The RFC merely notes that if UA's want to use this, this is an agreed format for it. This progress by mutual agreement has resulted in the massive and rapid development of the Internet. For one good reason. You don't have to implement EVERYTHING in order to implement ANYTHING. Usenet grew out of UUCP back in the 80's, UUCP itself wasn't part of ARPAnet IIRC but simply a tool cobbled together by smart people who wanted to send data between computers equipped with modems, One part of this was to actually transfer files. Another part was to send mail messages. Using the abominable source routing. And Usenet grew out of that, as a way to propagate idle chitchat. The paucity of the newsreader software and the bandwith avaialable led to some early netiquette convention. Don't quote everything, phone calls cast money, so snip. But dont snip all the content, because the original message may long be gone, or indeed may never have arrived at all, so make your answer succinct, and give enough context so that its clear what you are responding to. Ditto top posting. Its not easy to read a response before reading what is being responded to. Especially on a Vt100 with no scrollback. Groups already existed in order to give some base level of filtering: Threading became a USEFUL way to organise data within a group. Remember at this time Usenet was the nearest thing in functionality that existed to what we call the Interweb. I.e. one post but many readers of it. Threading was a useful way to sort through the data and select what you wanted to read. And in a sense that takes me back to the original thread. Which exactly mimics the RFC process. Someone says 'hey. is this a bug?' and various people analyse the problem, decide that its not covered adequately by either code or documentation, and those in charge of - in this case PHP development - make an (arbitrary?) decision that its either the way they think it should behave, that isn't clearly explained, or maybe it ought to behave diferrently in which case they will fix the code so that it does. There is no enforceable standardas to what PHP is SUPPOSED to be. It is what it is, and its there by grace and favour of the people who created it and maintain it. They define what it is supposed to be themselves. And finally, noting that there is a potential grey area, in the limit they can simply say 'behvaiour is undefined' which means 'here be Tygers, dont use this and expect it to work in this or any later release in a defined fashion'. Which is actually a perfectly useful response: coders simply wont use that particular contsruction, and plenty of alternatives exist. Some people don't like this way of proceeding: their instinct is towards mandated perfection. They used to write X 400/X 25 type specifications too. With the result that an X stack was too big to fit in anything but a mainframe, and was too expensive to be used other than by very large companies, and was too slow to develop and got overtaken by TCP/IP and SMTP within a few years. You can see those people., on Usenet, still disgruntled that their way of doing things never really worked. You can see them in politics, where despite the manifest failure of a top down regulated communist society, they still hanker after the order and stability, and want to have a central authority that decides everything, no matter how much it costs. For them there is a right way, and all other ways are wrong. Rarther than a selection of ways, some of which work better than others, and are faster to implement. You can see them here, too. -- Ineptocracy (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
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bug in is_numeric fred <email@address.com> - 2013-05-12 15:22 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric Salvatore <sal@yojimbo.hack.invalid> - 2013-05-12 15:31 +0000
Re: bug in is_numeric Luuk <luuk@invalid.lan> - 2013-05-12 17:55 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Luuk <luuk@invalid.lan> - 2013-05-12 17:58 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2013-05-12 18:06 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-05-12 16:24 +0000
Re: bug in is_numeric fred <email@address.com> - 2013-05-12 18:41 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2013-05-13 13:50 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric fred <email@address.com> - 2013-05-13 14:58 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-13 10:11 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric fred <email@address.com> - 2013-05-13 15:15 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2013-05-13 17:29 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2013-05-13 19:55 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Richard Yates <richard@yatesguitar.com> - 2013-05-14 06:41 -0700
Re: bug in is_numeric SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-05-14 21:43 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-14 23:01 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-05-15 05:48 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-15 06:11 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-05-16 18:36 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-15 15:19 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-05-15 20:23 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-15 20:49 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-05-15 21:58 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-15 22:20 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-05-15 22:42 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2013-05-15 23:53 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-05-16 00:29 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-05-16 00:40 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-16 05:00 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-05-16 18:16 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-17 00:45 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-05-16 22:52 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-17 18:33 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-05-17 20:39 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-17 23:45 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-05-18 14:47 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-05-15 20:57 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-16 00:09 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-05-17 01:17 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-16 20:30 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-05-18 14:51 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-18 10:07 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-18 11:56 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-18 14:32 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-18 22:24 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-18 17:01 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-05-18 21:58 +0000
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-18 19:21 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-05-19 02:22 +0000
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-18 22:41 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-19 05:28 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-19 09:42 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-19 11:42 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-19 14:39 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-21 01:01 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-21 05:59 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-19 07:49 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-19 05:31 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-19 12:39 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-19 09:43 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-19 11:52 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-19 14:42 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-21 01:03 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-21 06:00 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-19 11:45 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-19 05:27 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-19 09:45 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-19 11:37 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-19 14:43 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-21 00:59 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-21 06:02 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-18 17:08 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-18 23:58 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-18 19:22 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-18 17:11 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-18 19:23 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-19 05:35 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-19 09:46 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-19 11:23 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-19 14:44 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-21 00:54 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-21 06:03 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric fred <email@address.com> - 2013-05-23 15:38 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-06-01 17:36 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-06-01 14:54 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-06-05 15:25 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-06-05 10:34 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-06-05 17:02 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-06-05 12:30 -0400
OT: What you say is not always what you mean (was: Re: bug in is_numeric) Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-06-05 20:20 +0200
Re: OT: What you say is not always what you mean Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-06-05 14:40 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-18 21:51 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-18 17:13 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-19 00:49 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-19 05:24 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-19 12:40 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-19 12:43 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-19 11:29 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Norman Peelman <npeelman@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-05-18 14:53 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-05-16 18:41 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-05-13 08:35 -0700
Re: bug in is_numeric Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-05-13 20:26 +0000
Re: bug in is_numeric Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-05-13 20:15 +0000
Re: bug in is_numeric Robert Heller <heller@deepsoft.com> - 2013-05-12 13:03 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-12 18:03 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric fred <email@address.com> - 2013-05-12 18:34 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-12 19:40 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Luuk <luuk@invalid.lan> - 2013-05-12 21:51 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric "Sanders Kaufman" <bucky@kaufman.net> - 2013-05-12 11:47 -0500
Re: bug in is_numeric Luuk <luuk@invalid.lan> - 2013-05-12 18:56 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2013-05-12 19:05 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-12 19:38 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-12 19:46 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-12 14:11 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-12 20:39 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-12 16:51 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-13 01:27 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-12 20:35 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-13 11:07 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-13 09:02 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-13 16:57 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-13 17:10 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-13 13:52 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-13 20:28 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-05-16 18:28 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-17 00:33 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric SwissCheese <swisscheese@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-05-16 22:34 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-18 10:28 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Norman Peelman <npeelman@cfl.rr.com> - 2013-05-18 08:00 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Luuk <luuk@invalid.lan> - 2013-05-18 14:18 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-05-18 13:20 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-18 08:47 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-05-18 14:05 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-18 10:16 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-05-18 16:14 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2013-05-14 10:34 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric fred <email@address.com> - 2013-05-14 14:47 +0100
Re: bug in is_numeric Denis McMahon <denismfmcmahon@gmail.com> - 2013-05-14 14:54 +0000
Re: bug in is_numeric Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2013-05-15 08:05 +0200
Re: bug in is_numeric Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-05-15 06:27 -0400
Re: bug in is_numeric Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2013-05-15 13:11 +0200
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