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Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers?

From Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de>
Newsgroups comp.lang.php
Subject Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers?
Date 2013-01-15 15:48 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <kd3q7v$adh$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <kc6mr5$h3v$1@dont-email.me> <slrnkee22r.jfd.hellsop@nibelheim.ninehells.com> <kc764a$bh2$1@news.albasani.net> <kd3bep$kfd$1@dont-email.me> <kd3lh2$81o$1@news.albasani.net>

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Am 15.01.2013 14:28, schrieb The Natural Philosopher:

> On 15/01/13 10:36, Arno Welzel wrote:
>> Am 04.01.2013 19:13, schrieb The Natural Philosopher:
[...]
>>> I was writing code long before we HAD IDEs. And once you had blown the
>>> EAROM you had to guess at why it didn't work. Because we didn't have
>>> enough ICES to go round.
>> [...]
>>
>> The had the first IDEs including source level debuggers in the late
>> 1980s long before Windows or Linux became popular as they are today (and
>> when i started software development, Windows 3.1 didn't even exist) -
>> and yes, i really liked the opportunity to have "projects" and
>> debugging. Just because it is technically possible to do something
>> without a special tool it does not mean that using better tools is not
>> wise.
>>
>> BTW: The GNU Debugger was created in 1986.
>>
>>> BECAUSE we were professionals we learnt to write code in such a way that
>>> the chances of a bug were very very low.
>>>
>>> Its hackers who use IDES to throw code together, and then spend the next
>>> day bodging it until it works, simply because they have the tools that
>>> make debugging easier than writing proper code in the first place.
>>
>> I doubt that you ever did projects with thousands line of code from
>> scratch and more than one person working on the same project this way.
>>
>>
> I can assure you I did.
[...]
> I may these days hack with less comments, but if my code does NOT work I
> go back to that style of comment. At least it reminds me weeks later
> what the code is SUPPOSED to do, even if it doesn't.

Using comments is still wise - even today with the most fancy IDE.

> I've found aids good for syntax bugs, but not for logical bugs.
>
> A proper compiler and proper language that requires explicit
> declarations of variables takes care of most of the syntax.
>
> The logic? that you have to figure out the hard way.

Yep - and if you use a compiler you sometimes have to deal with 
"optimizations" too :-/

> But at least if the comment sasy 'check dumledore has been initialised
> by Hogwarts' and the code says otherwise, you have a hint...
>
> The trouble is PHP allows lazy coding. Type $dumbledore and its not
> clear whether the variable is being assigned, set, or both. Slack typing
> means that you need === as well as == and = ...
>
> It truly is a hackers language.

Well - this is not so surprising, since PHP was originally not created 
to be a programming language but nothing more as a toolkit to create 
HTML documents. If PHP would ever invent stricter rules, most existing 
code would not work any longer - then most people would start to think 
about alternatives to PHP anyway. So PHP has to keep this "lazy" nature 
as long it exists :-/


-- 
Arno Welzel
http://arnowelzel.de
http://de-rec-fahrrad.de

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Thread

Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? BobMCT <r.mariotti@fdcx.net> - 2013-01-02 21:50 -0500
  Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-01-02 23:15 -0500
  Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-01-03 10:25 +0100
    Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? bill <william@TechServSys.com> - 2013-01-03 06:52 -0500
      Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-01-03 14:18 +0100
        Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? bill <william@TechServSys.com> - 2013-01-04 07:06 -0500
          Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-01-04 08:52 -0500
            Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2013-01-04 10:50 -0600
              Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-04 18:13 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-01-04 14:40 -0500
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> - 2013-01-05 11:13 -0700
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-05 18:31 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? "Twayne" <nobody@devnull.spamcop.net> - 2013-01-04 15:19 -0500
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-04 20:21 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? "Peter H. Coffin" <hellsop@ninehells.com> - 2013-01-04 21:39 -0600
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-05 04:32 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-01-05 09:45 +0100
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2013-01-05 10:47 +0100
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-05 12:59 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-01-15 11:36 +0100
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-15 13:28 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2013-01-15 15:48 +0100
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-15 15:05 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-01-15 18:55 +0000
              Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-01-04 19:25 +0100
            Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-01-05 04:01 -0700
              Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-01-05 08:35 -0500
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-01-05 12:07 -0700
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-01-05 14:51 -0500
              Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Doug Miller <doug_at_milmac_dot_com@example.com> - 2013-01-05 15:47 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-01-05 15:59 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2013-01-05 18:51 +0100
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-05 18:30 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-01-05 18:44 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-01-05 18:42 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2013-01-05 19:47 +0100
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-01-05 14:52 -0500
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-06 12:11 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Anders Wegge Keller <wegge@wegge.dk> - 2013-01-06 13:41 +0100
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2013-01-06 08:23 -0500
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-06 13:53 +0000
                Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2013-01-05 18:25 +0000
          Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2013-01-04 15:22 +0100
            Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-01-04 15:40 +0100
            Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? crankypuss <noemail@noemail.invalid> - 2013-01-05 04:06 -0700
              Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2013-01-06 01:56 +0100
            Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-01-05 13:55 +0000
              Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2013-01-05 17:51 +0100
  Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? legalize+jeeves@mail.xmission.com (Richard) - 2013-01-04 22:30 +0000
  Re: Anyone have experience with any php debuggers? Scott Johnson <noonehome@chalupasworld.com> - 2013-01-05 09:51 -0800

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