Re: out of sheer curiosity...

From	Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.php
Subject	Re: out of sheer curiosity...
Date	2012-04-10 07:58 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<jm178k$l6m$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(18 earlier) <jlv8cg$2j7$1@news.albasani.net> <jlva9f$22r$1@dont-email.me> <jlvi3a$mpa$1@news.albasani.net> <jlvu7q$peh$1@dont-email.me> <9ui7u7FkvdU1@mid.uni-berlin.de>

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On 4/10/2012 4:05 AM, M. Strobel wrote:
> Am 10.04.2012 02:17, schrieb Jerry Stuckle:
>> On 4/9/2012 4:50 PM, Thomas Mlynarczyk wrote:
>>
>>> And this initialization is not needed (or might even prove harmful) when
>>> the object is copied rather than created from scratch, because in that
>>> case the initialization was already done on the original object and the
>>> copy was thus created from an already initialized object and it will
>>> "inherit" the initialized state. Instead, there are __clone() and
>>> __wakeup() which replace __construct() and can do different
>>> initialization tasks depending on how the object was created.
>>>
>>
>> Initialization is NEVER harmful if it is done properly.  That's the whole purpose of
>> initialization!.  wakeup() is NOT a constructor - any more than sleep() is a destructor.
>
> 'if done properly' fits everywhere and is just too true to be useful.
>
> In PHP the constructor is called on an object without state (data). So you would
> normally in the constructor just write out our data, like setting a counter to zero
> or a date to the current time. This would be harmful to do on a 'not new' object.
>

But you are creating an object without state.  When the object state is 
serialized, by definition it is no longer an object because it has no 
behavior.

You need to understand what an object is according to Object Oriented 
principles.  An object has both state and behavior - it has properties 
and methods which act on those properties.  The latter is not possible 
in a serialized object.

And yes, you call the constructor when creating ANY object, even if the 
object is being created from existing data.

Your understanding of object oriented principles shows you have never 
read much about it nor have you use a true OO language.

> Now PDO comes in. When getting a query result as object your constructor is called
> *after* the properties are set.
>

And exactly how is that?

> I found it quite annoying to have an exception from the rule. But thinking more about
> it I found out they had a choice of either calling __construct() after setting the
> data, or to define another magic method like __pdoconstruct() to give the programmer
> a chance to adapt the init process to the data.
>

Another problem - you should NEVER call the constructor.  True OO 
languages do that for you as part of creating a new object.  And you 
never have to call the parent constructor, either.

PHP is sadly lacking as an OO language, that's for sure.

> Bottom line is: you just have to know your programming language very well, and test
> everything thoroughly. Knowledge of OO principles help a lot, but are often too
> general to be operational (like for example the "Open Close Principle").
>
> /Str.

Bottom line is - PHP's OO is sadly lacking, as it is in so many areas.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

Thread

out of sheer curiosity... "Leonardo Azpurua" <leonardo@exmvps.org> - 2012-03-27 12:31 -0430
  Re: out of sheer curiosity... "Álvaro G. Vicario" <alvaro.NOSPAMTHANX@demogracia.com.invalid> - 2012-03-27 19:06 +0200
    Re: out of sheer curiosity... "Leonardo Azpurua" <leonardo@exmvps.org> - 2012-03-27 13:04 -0430
  Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2012-03-28 21:12 +0200
    Re: out of sheer curiosity... "Leonardo Azpurua" <leonardo@exmvps.org> - 2012-03-28 20:23 -0430
      Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-03-29 10:00 +0200
        Re: out of sheer curiosity... "Leonardo Azpurua" <leonardo@exmvps.org> - 2012-03-29 05:23 -0430
          Re: out of sheer curiosity... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-29 11:46 +0100
            Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-03-29 14:02 +0200
            Re: out of sheer curiosity... Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2012-03-29 14:33 +0200
              Re: out of sheer curiosity... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-29 14:37 +0100
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2012-03-29 15:59 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-29 17:58 +0100
              Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-03-29 09:39 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Erwin Moller <erwinmollerusenet@xs4all.nl> - 2012-03-29 16:21 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-29 18:09 +0100
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-03-29 22:07 +0100
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-03-29 23:43 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-03-30 04:52 +0100
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-03-29 16:11 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-03-29 22:01 +0100
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-03-29 19:29 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-08 22:50 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-08 17:15 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-09 00:39 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-09 00:59 +0100
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-08 20:28 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-08 20:24 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-09 11:29 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-09 08:27 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-09 15:20 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-09 12:03 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-09 20:04 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-09 14:37 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-09 22:50 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-09 20:17 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-10 10:05 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 13:28 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-10 18:54 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 20:10 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-10 20:23 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 23:17 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 17:11 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 23:30 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 19:43 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 17:08 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-11 10:40 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 07:58 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-04-10 16:04 +0100
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 12:10 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 18:18 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2012-04-10 18:20 +0100
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-10 19:31 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 17:20 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 23:57 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 19:50 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2012-04-10 17:41 +0100
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 17:25 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 12:16 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 13:44 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 08:04 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 17:37 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 12:19 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 18:44 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 17:23 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Scott Johnson <noonehome@chalupasworld.com> - 2012-04-09 11:50 -0700
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-09 23:03 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Scott Johnson <noonehome@chalupasworld.com> - 2012-04-09 15:27 -0700
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-09 20:25 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 12:48 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 08:06 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "Leonardo Azpurua" <leonardo@exmvps.org> - 2012-04-10 07:52 -0430
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 12:20 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "Leonardo Azpurua" <leonardo@exmvps.org> - 2012-04-10 12:03 -0430
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 17:28 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-11 00:13 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 19:53 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-11 22:17 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-11 16:30 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-09 20:22 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 12:43 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 08:11 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 18:15 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-10 19:09 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 20:17 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-10 20:25 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-10 23:21 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 17:34 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-11 01:00 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-10 19:54 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-11 22:10 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-11 16:31 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Thomas Mlynarczyk <thomas@mlynarczyk-webdesign.de> - 2012-04-11 22:40 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-12 00:02 -0400
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... "M. Strobel" <sorry_no_mail_here@nowhere.dee> - 2012-04-12 12:00 +0200
                Re: out of sheer curiosity... Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2012-04-12 07:45 -0400

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