Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.lang.lisp > #60742 > unrolled thread

Resources to learn common lisp?

Started byMario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es>
First post2026-02-20 22:53 +0100
Last post2026-08-14 01:36 +0800
Articles 20 on this page of 624 — 38 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.lisp


Contents

  Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-20 22:53 +0100
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Ben Bacarisse <ben@bsb.me.uk> - 2026-02-20 22:00 +0000
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-21 12:25 +0100
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-02-21 10:24 -0500
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-21 21:30 +0000
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-22 01:08 +0100
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-22 04:59 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-02-22 10:59 +0530
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-02-22 21:48 +0000
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 12:43 -0400
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 12:41 -0400
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-08 20:02 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 00:23 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:28 +0000
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:32 +0000
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:27 -0400
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-11 17:33 +0000
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:16 -0400
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:53 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Axel Reichert <mail@axel-reichert.de> - 2026-06-09 12:07 +0200
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:14 +0000
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-17 00:01 -0400
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 05:53 +0000
                        [OT] Disappearing documentation (was: Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 09:06 +0100
                          Re: [OT] Disappearing documentation steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 19:05 -0400
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 19:01 -0400
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 00:02 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-11 17:22 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:59 -0700
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 00:55 +0000
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:43 -0700
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:45 +0000
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:35 +0000
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anthk GM <anthk@disroot.org> - 2026-08-15 22:29 +0000
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-15 23:38 +0000
              Buy the official standard from A.N.S.I. (was: Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-16 11:25 +0800
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-08 12:37 -0400
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 00:33 +0000
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-09 00:22 -0400
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-09 01:22 -0400
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:17 +0000
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-09 06:50 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:40 -0400
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:26 +0000
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 22:10 -0400
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 21:37 -0700
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Joerg Mertens <joerg-mertens@t-online.de> - 2026-06-17 12:04 +0200
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-17 11:17 +0000
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 13:57 +0000
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:06 +0000
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 09:17 +0000
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-18 13:32 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-18 14:21 -0700
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-19 08:12 +0000
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-19 04:27 -0700
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 21:24 -0400
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-20 13:00 -0400
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-28 07:55 +0000
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-18 12:53 -0400
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-18 21:28 -0400
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-19 15:08 -0400
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-19 22:32 -0400
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-20 13:56 -0400
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-21 14:57 -0700
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-22 09:11 -0400
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-24 22:14 +0000
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-25 11:20 -0400
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 09:47 +0000
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-28 23:21 +0000
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-29 19:00 -0400
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-02 00:34 +0000
                                        Python blanks (was: Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-02 08:39 +0100
                                          Re: Python blanks ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-02 09:24 +0000
                                            Re: Python blanks Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-02 21:10 +0000
                                              Re: Python blanks Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-03 00:34 +0100
                                                Re: Python blanks George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-03 02:10 -0400
                                                  Re: Python blanks Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-03 07:21 +0100
                                                    Re: Python blanks Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-03 01:47 -0700
                                                      Re: Python blanks Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-03 17:42 -0400
                                                      Re: Python blanks Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 04:15 +0000
                                                  Re: Python blanks yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2026-07-03 12:51 +0042
                                                    Re: Python blanks Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-03 11:34 -0700
                                                      Re: Python blanks Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2026-07-04 04:03 +0000
                                                        Re: Python blanks Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 04:18 +0000
                                                      Re: Python blanks tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 11:34 +0000
                                                        Re: Python blanks ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-09 13:15 +0000
                                                          Re: Python blanks tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 13:24 +0000
                                                        Re: Python blanks antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-07-09 14:01 +0000
                                                          Re: Python blanks tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 14:39 +0000
                                                            Re: Python blanks antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-07-09 21:03 +0000
                                                              Re: Python blanks tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 21:23 +0000
                                                              Re: Python blanks Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-09 23:09 +0000
                                                              Re: Python blanks steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 23:05 -0400
                                                                Re: Python blanks George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-06 09:57 -0400
                                                          Re: Python blanks Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-09 23:08 +0000
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-02 13:41 -0400
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-03 05:45 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-03 10:12 -0400
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-03 18:43 -0700
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 23:28 +0000
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-04 17:22 -0700
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 01:47 +0000
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 23:24 +0000
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-04 21:48 -0400
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 23:56 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 09:47 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-20 13:43 -0400
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-20 22:28 -0400
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-22 09:16 -0400
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 23:38 +0000
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-26 00:43 +0000
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 02:52 +0000
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 19:06 -0400
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-11 05:27 -0400
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 22:12 -0400
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-10 12:24 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-11 05:57 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-11 21:07 -0400
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-12 13:06 +0000
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 00:13 +0000
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 07:25 +0000
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:25 +0000
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:46 +0000
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:52 +0000
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:57 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-15 10:10 +0100
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:56 +0000
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:46 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:03 +0000
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 07:52 +0000
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 23:35 +0000
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 20:56 -0400
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-13 00:55 -0400
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 07:43 +0000
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 21:37 -0400
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:09 -0700
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:02 +0000
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 10:12 +0000
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 22:54 -0400
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-06-17 00:07 -0400
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 08:33 +0000
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 18:48 -0400
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 18:28 -0400
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-12 12:42 +0000
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 23:32 -0400
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-09 09:36 -0400
              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-10 00:06 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-10 08:43 -0400
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-11 00:22 +0000
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-11 08:57 -0400
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-12 00:16 +0000
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 21:42 -0400
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 01:15 +0000
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-15 05:42 +0000
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 11:19 +0000
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 00:18 +0000
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-16 03:27 +0000
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 01:25 -0700
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-17 10:13 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-18 13:57 +0000
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:11 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-18 02:30 -0700
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-29 08:21 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-18 09:32 +0000
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-29 08:24 +0000
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 09:47 +0000
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-02 00:26 +0000
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-02 18:22 -0400
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-03 04:04 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-03 02:16 -0400
                                            [OT] Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-03 07:29 +0100
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-03 10:18 -0400
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 03:51 +0000
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-04 09:23 -0400
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 01:46 +0000
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-04 21:44 -0700
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 05:17 +0000
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-05 08:43 +0100
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-06 05:13 -0400
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-05 01:03 -0700
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 12:31 +0000
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-11 14:55 -0400
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-05 08:42 +0100
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-05 11:02 -0400
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-06 01:10 +0000
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-06 05:21 -0400
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-07 11:52 -0400
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-07-08 01:46 +0000
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-08 03:04 +0000
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-07 19:30 -0700
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-07 19:34 -0700
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-03 22:03 -0700
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 05:44 +0000
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-04 03:21 -0700
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 23:22 +0000
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 09:15 +0000
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-11 16:04 -0400
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-13 12:12 +0000
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-13 14:59 -0400
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-18 14:15 +0000
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-29 08:23 +0000
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 10:02 +0000
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 20:58 -0400
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 23:53 -0400
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-17 05:55 +0000
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-17 01:43 -0700
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 01:07 +0000
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 18:58 -0400
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 18:52 -0400
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 00:04 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-11 06:37 -0400
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:30 -0700
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 00:58 +0000
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:46 -0700
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-15 06:59 -0400
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-15 12:25 -0700
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-28 07:47 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-11 17:42 +0000
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-12 00:16 +0000
                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-12 12:34 +0000
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 00:11 +0000
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-13 04:06 -0400
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:37 -0700
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-13 21:25 +0000
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 15:26 -0700
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:37 +0000
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 01:34 +0000
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-15 05:43 +0000
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-15 11:23 +0000
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 00:23 +0000
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-16 03:29 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 04:59 +0000
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:10 -0700
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-28 22:42 -0400
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-29 06:01 +0000
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 20:12 -0400
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-02 00:35 +0000
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 15:53 -0400
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 13:34 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-28 22:41 -0400
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-28 20:31 -0700
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 20:04 -0400
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-29 17:44 -0700
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-13 08:36 +0000
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:43 +0000
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-14 10:36 -0400
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 23:55 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 18:04 -0700
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 12:33 +0000
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 02:56 +0000
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-27 20:25 +0000
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-28 23:37 +0000
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-28 16:55 -0700
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 08:41 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-03 00:44 +0000
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 07:33 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-03 00:30 +0000
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 16:08 -0400
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:53 +0000
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 22:22 -0400
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 22:00 +0000
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-05 22:34 +0000
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-08 22:05 +0800
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 18:42 -0400
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-10 01:48 +0000
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 21:18 -0400
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-11 11:19 +0100
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-11 10:00 -0300
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-11 18:31 +0100
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-11 19:35 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-11 20:56 +0100
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-11 20:21 +0000
                                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-11 22:44 +0100
                                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-11 22:50 +0000
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-12 01:35 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-12 16:28 +0000
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 05:03 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-14 07:14 +0100
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 06:47 +0000
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-14 01:33 -0700
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-13 11:42 -0300
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-13 15:39 +0000
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-13 16:52 -0300
                                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-14 05:04 +0800
                                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-14 08:16 -0300
                                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-14 00:11 +0000
                                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-13 17:16 -0700
                                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-14 10:27 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-13 20:35 +0000
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-14 08:04 -0300
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 23:58 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-14 09:27 +0100
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 23:35 -0400
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-11 18:35 +0000
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-11 21:14 +0100
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-11 21:01 +0000
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-12 01:20 +0000
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-12 09:12 +0000
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-12 01:19 +0000
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-12 16:25 +0000
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-11 23:30 -0400
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-12 16:52 +0000
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-11 20:39 -0700
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-12 23:23 +0100
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-10 15:05 +0000
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-08 22:00 +0800
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-08 14:14 +0000
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-09 20:34 +0000
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-08 14:45 +0000
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-09 02:18 +0800
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 18:47 -0400
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-11 11:38 -0400
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 18:59 -0400
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-15 21:12 -0400
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-14 08:20 -0300
                                                              Names for GenAI (was: Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-14 13:30 +0100
                                                                Re: Names for GenAI ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-08-14 12:49 +0000
                                                                Re: Names for GenAI Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-16 13:56 -0300
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-29 16:16 -0400
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-29 13:46 -0700
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-06-30 17:15 -0400
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-03 04:07 +0000
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 12:26 +0000
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-11 16:06 -0400
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-11 15:03 -0700
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-13 12:12 +0000
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-13 15:55 -0400
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-13 20:37 +0000
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 16:18 -0400
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-29 22:06 +0000
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 16:15 -0400
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-30 21:05 -0400
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-31 08:01 +0000
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-04 22:08 -0400
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-05 11:29 +0000
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-08-05 23:46 +0530
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 19:41 -0400
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-08-10 14:44 +0200
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 12:31 +0000
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 16:21 -0400
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-07-31 07:17 +0800
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-07-31 12:21 -0300
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-01 01:48 +0800
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-05 13:13 -0300
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 21:48 +0000
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2026-08-06 09:05 +0200
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 11:33 -0700
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-06 15:49 -0300
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-06 20:23 -0400
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-08-07 09:36 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-07 11:58 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-08-08 19:02 +0000
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 18:59 -0400
                                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-12 15:23 +0000
                                                                      Reader macros (was: Resources to learn common lisp?) Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-08-09 11:51 -0400
                                                                        Re: Reader macros Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-10 00:48 -0700
                                                              Manipulating C code at the AST level, in C (was: Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-09 05:33 +0800
                                                                Re: Manipulating C code at the AST level, in C Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-10 01:11 -0700
                                                                  Re: Manipulating C code at the AST level, in C cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-08-10 14:57 +0000
                                                                  Re: Manipulating C code at the AST level, in C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 13:10 -0700
                                                                Re: Manipulating C code at the AST level, in C Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-10 17:41 -0300
                                                                  Re: Manipulating C code at the AST level, in C Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-10 23:53 +0000
                                                                    Re: Manipulating C code at the AST level, in C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-08-11 14:29 +0000
                                                                    kqueues and port_create() (was: Re: Manipulating C code at the AST level, in C) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-12 07:51 +0800
                                                                      Re: kqueues and port_create() Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-11 20:59 -0700
                                                                        Re: kqueues and port_create() Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-12 13:07 +0800
                                                                          Re: kqueues and port_create() Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-08-12 03:23 -0400
                                                                            Re: kqueues and port_create() Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-12 07:50 +0000
                                                                              Re: kqueues and port_create() Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-13 11:33 +0800
                                                                            Re: kqueues and port_create() Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-12 02:22 -0700
                                                                              Re: kqueues and port_create() Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-08-12 20:55 -0400
                                                                            Re: kqueues and port_create() Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-13 11:37 +0800
                                                                        Re: kqueues and port_create() "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-12 12:59 -0700
                                                                    Re: Manipulating C code at the AST level, in C Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-14 12:26 +0100
                                                                  D.N.S. in Common Lisp (was: Re: Manipulating C code at the AST level, in C) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-12 07:59 +0800
                                                                    Re: D.N.S. in Common Lisp Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-12 09:01 -0300
                                                                      Making production games in Common Lisp (was: Re: D.N.S. in Common Lisp) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-13 11:20 +0800
                                                                        Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-12 20:46 -0700
                                                                          Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-13 14:28 +0800
                                                                          Re: Making production games in Common Lisp bixbox <noreply@example.invalid> - 2026-08-13 11:46 +0200
                                                                        Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-13 12:19 -0300
                                                                          Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-14 01:24 +0800
                                                                            Re: Making production games in Common Lisp ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-08-13 17:39 +0000
                                                                            Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-13 20:58 -0300
                                                                              Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-14 13:42 +0800
                                                                                Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-14 12:46 +0100
                                                                            Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-13 17:31 -0700
                                                                              Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-14 14:04 +0800
                                                                                Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-14 01:52 -0700
                                                                            Re: Making production games in Common Lisp tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-14 10:27 +0000
                                                                              Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-15 01:19 +0800
                                                                        Re: Making production games in Common Lisp (was: Re: D.N.S. in Common Lisp) tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-13 16:14 +0000
                                                                          Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-14 01:31 +0800
                                                                            Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-14 12:52 +0100
                                                                              Re: Making production games in Common Lisp tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-14 12:30 +0000
                                                                              Re: Making production games in Common Lisp Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-15 01:33 +0800
                                                                        Re: Making production games in Common Lisp (was: Re: D.N.S. in Common Lisp) George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-15 19:44 -0400
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-06 18:05 -0700
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-09 05:26 +0800
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-08 18:37 -0400
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-09 08:52 +0000
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-09 11:50 +0100
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-09 23:01 +0800
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 19:09 -0400
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-12 15:23 +0000
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-12 15:23 +0000
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-09 20:36 +0000
                                                                    What do you need from S.B.C.L? (was: Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-10 05:32 +0800
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 19:02 -0400
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-10 00:56 +0100
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-12 15:30 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-08-12 16:31 +0000
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-12 17:07 +0000
                                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-08-12 17:20 +0000
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-14 14:28 +0800
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-10 00:54 -0700
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-08-11 20:20 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-11 20:51 -0700
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-12 15:52 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-14 03:27 -0700
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-14 12:16 +0000
                                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-14 12:03 -0700
                                                                      Macros (was Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-14 12:51 +0000
                                                                        Re: Macros (was Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-14 12:08 -0700
                                                                          Re: Macros Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-08-15 10:01 +0100
                                                                          Re: Macros (was Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2026-08-15 12:58 +0000
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-12 13:18 +0800
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? bixbox <noreply@example.invalid> - 2026-08-12 10:16 +0200
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-08-10 14:21 +0200
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-08-11 22:14 +0000
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-14 14:37 +0800
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-08 19:08 -0400
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 19:12 -0400
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-11 11:45 -0400
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-13 19:25 -0400
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-10 10:48 -0300
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-10 23:55 +0000
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 21:25 -0400
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-11 12:20 -0400
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-08-12 13:06 -0400
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-12 17:16 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> - 2026-08-13 12:46 -0300
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-31 22:46 +0000
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-01 07:38 +0800
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 22:26 -0400
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-01 09:08 +0000
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-08-01 07:49 -0400
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-01 23:37 +0000
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-01 16:54 -0700
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-02 07:39 +0000
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 22:39 -0400
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 23:59 -0400
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-01 16:12 +0800
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 22:50 -0400
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 19:02 +0800
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 19:36 -0400
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-09 02:11 +0800
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-09 18:49 -0400
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 13:08 -0700
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-28 22:48 -0400
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-28 20:34 -0700
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-29 06:00 +0000
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-29 00:52 -0700
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-29 07:55 +0000
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-29 13:35 -0700
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-29 22:25 +0000
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-29 17:37 -0700
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 03:53 +0000
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 16:26 -0400
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:50 +0000
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 23:52 -0400
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-01 05:24 +0000
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 22:47 -0400
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 02:54 +0000
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-04 23:11 -0400
                                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-05 07:31 +0000
                                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-06 19:25 -0400
                                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-10 01:46 +0000
                                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-08-10 21:10 -0400
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 18:26 +0800
                                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-05 13:05 -0700
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 23:34 +0000
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 00:07 +0000
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 01:49 +0000
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-06 05:23 -0400
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 09:26 +0000
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-09 12:04 +0000
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-07-09 14:42 +0000
                                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 19:33 +0000
                                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-07-09 21:29 +0000
                                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-10 07:37 +0000
                                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-10 10:17 +0000
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-10 03:35 -0700
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 17:32 -0400
                                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:48 +0000
                                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-07-30 21:37 -0400
                                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-04 00:49 +0000
                                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-04 09:56 +0800
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 08:31 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 08:31 +0000
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 08:08 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-29 08:57 +0000
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 09:47 +0000
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-29 10:03 +0000
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 10:44 +0000
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-29 11:05 +0000
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-02 00:42 +0000
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-29 11:09 +0000
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-02 00:45 +0000
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 20:50 -0400
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-02 00:43 +0000
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-02 00:41 +0000
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 15:55 -0400
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:46 +0000
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 20:47 -0400
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-02 00:39 +0000
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-30 13:47 -0700
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-01 10:26 -0400
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-02 00:38 +0000
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-01 18:47 -0700
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-01 18:52 -0700
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-07-02 20:33 -0400
                                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-03 00:50 +0000
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-03 00:42 +0000
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 08:06 +0000
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 11:41 +0000
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-07-03 19:37 -0400
                                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-03 18:29 -0700
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-04 09:40 -0400
                                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Alan Bawden <alan@csail.mit.edu> - 2026-07-08 19:07 -0400
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-27 13:48 -0700
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-28 23:34 +0000
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 02:58 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-15 09:51 -0400
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-16 00:23 +0000
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 03:14 -0700
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 03:02 +0000
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-26 21:47 -0700
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 23:18 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-28 16:36 -0700
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-03 04:06 +0000
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-02 22:20 -0700
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 03:58 +0000
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-03 07:36 +0100
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 15:29 -0700
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-27 23:29 +0000
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-28 16:41 -0700
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 09:17 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-29 18:41 +0000
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-04 04:06 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-04 07:46 +0100
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-07-29 16:31 -0400
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-29 23:52 +0000
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-16 10:23 -0400
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-16 21:34 -0700
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-17 15:02 -0400
                                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 04:14 +0000
                                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-18 12:44 -0400
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 10:09 +0000
                                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-06-29 10:55 +0000
                                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 08:06 +0000
                                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-07-09 13:26 +0000
                                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-09 23:04 +0000
                                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 02:45 +0000
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-14 13:14 -0700
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-18 02:30 +0000
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-16 11:46 +0000
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-18 15:34 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-19 07:01 +0000
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-06-19 11:41 +0000
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-28 23:38 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-28 23:42 +0000
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-29 13:58 -0700
                                    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-29 22:19 +0000
                      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-28 22:37 -0400
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-28 20:42 -0700
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 20:08 -0400
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-29 08:27 +0100
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-29 00:42 -0700
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-06-29 14:35 +0100
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-06-29 23:27 -0400
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2026-07-01 16:21 -0400
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 20:21 -0400
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-01 08:57 +0100
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Madhu <enometh@meer.net> - 2026-07-01 14:29 +0530
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-07-01 12:56 -0700
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 20:17 -0400
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-30 21:32 +0000
                        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-06-29 07:55 +0000
                          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-05 22:14 +0100
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-05 23:55 +0000
                              Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-07-06 08:04 +0100
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-06 08:00 +0000
                                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Niocláisín Cóilín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-08-04 18:35 +0000
                                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-05 05:46 +0800
                            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-07-09 09:57 +0000
                Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:22 -0700
                  Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 01:55 +0000
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tpeplt <tpeplt@gmail.com> - 2026-02-20 17:44 -0500
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-21 12:30 +0100
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-20 23:50 +0000
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-02-21 00:24 +0000
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-02-21 11:36 +0100
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Mario Rosell <mario@mariorosell.es> - 2026-02-21 12:44 +0100
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-03-31 17:47 -0400
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:41 +0000
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tpeplt <tpeplt@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 13:23 -0400
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-16 21:59 -0400
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Peri Didaskalou <pfd@torfree.net> - 2026-05-01 10:52 -0400
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Peri Didaskalou <pfd@torfree.net> - 2026-05-01 10:57 -0400
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Peri Didaskalou <pfd@torfree.net> - 2026-05-01 11:06 -0400
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-01 14:56 -0400
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? "Robert B. Carleton" <rbc@rbcarleton.net> - 2026-06-01 23:02 +0000
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? steve g <sgonedes1977@gmail.com> - 2026-06-02 21:32 -0400
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-03 03:16 +0000
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? kotorifan <mindyourownbiz@noemail.fuck> - 2026-08-02 16:42 +0000
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-02 22:53 +0000
        Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Anthk GM <anthk@disroot.org> - 2026-08-13 13:40 +0000
          Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-13 23:46 +0000
            Re: Resources to learn common lisp? tfb <tfb@work.it.out> - 2026-08-14 10:25 +0000
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2026-08-02 16:56 -0700
      Common Lisp Books (was: Re: Resources to learn common lisp?) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-03 17:56 +0800
    Re: Resources to learn common lisp? bixbox <noreply@example.invalid> - 2026-08-13 12:35 +0200
      Re: Resources to learn common lisp? Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-08-14 01:36 +0800

Page 15 of 32 — ← Prev page 1 … 13 14 [15] 16 17 … 32  Next page →


#61437

FromAnton Antimo <anton@safunu.org>
Date2026-08-13 11:42 -0300
Message-ID<878q6am68z.fsf@0x1c1.com>
In reply to#61383
Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> writes:

>  Ar an t-aonú lá déag de mí Lúnasa, scríobh Anton Antimo: 
>
>  > Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> writes:
>  > 
>  > >  Ar an deichiú lá de mí Lúnasa, scríobh Lawrence D’Oliveiro: 
>  > >
>  > >  > On Sun, 09 Aug 2026 18:42:29 -0400, steve g wrote:
>  > >  > 
>  > >  > > [...] GC is for user space, not kernel space. Kernel developers are
>  > >  > > usually very good programmers.
>  > >  > 
>  > >  > Do different laws of physics apply in kernel space or something? And/or
>  > >  > is that an admission that garbage collection is not for “very good
>  > >  > programmers”?
>  > >
>  > > Let me digress for a moment:
>  > >
>  > > Within medicine, my day job, [...]
>  > 
>  > Very cool that we have people from areas such as medicine here. (In reality,
>  > there's no academic discipline called programming---people in Computer
>  > Science are more often than not not programmers at all.) Medicine, in
>  > particular, is an unexpected one. Can you share a bit more about your
>  > history as in how did you get interested in medicine and computers (and Lisp
>  > specially)? That'd be cool to hear. (Assuming a little social chat is
>  > acceptable here given the current low volume.)
>
> My first degree was 1998-2002 and the professor (clearly taking
> shelter from the first AI winter) assigned the GNU Emacs manual as
> required reading for the first class. (This is, I understand, not
> typical.)

Very atypical these days.  Your first degree must have been Computer
Science?  So you got two degrees.  Having a degree or not in such areas,
I think that understanding the fundamentals of computers and programming
is a pretty good skill these days.  There might be other areas I miss
for sheer lack of wisdom here.

I took a ``programming 102'' engineering class a few years ago in which
the professor offered us a ZIP package containing the GNU EMACS set up
with Python.  Students on the first day of class protested against their
``programming 101'' (a Python primer) saying it was essentially useless
with no real-world anything (which I fully agree: that course's real
objective was to teach us the syntax of Python [with no OOP, which is
the job of ``programming 102'']).

The professor replied saying he would present us with some illustrations
of real-world stuff.  To my surprise, one of these things was the GNU
EMACS.  His EMACS came with all of its default configuration but some
additional ones for people to run Python and ESHELL.  (To run it, we'd
double click on a icon on the desktop.) Students were welcome to ignore
it all and use Python's IDLE or whatever, which I think 99% of them did.
What students couldn't ignore, which was cool (lol), was that the way to
turn in homework was through fossil.  The professor introduced us to
fossil in another lecture, saying he chose fossil over git due to
slightly greater simplicity (compared to git, which I couldn't quite
see).  I was likely the one exception that didn't struggle with
fossil----I had never heard of it until then, but I've been using git
for years.  Anyway, after these lectures, he went on with the course,
which didn't work very well at all because I think after the GNU EMACS
and fossil most students had already given up on him---there were many
other professors teaching the same course in a way that it had a lot
less new things to learn.

> At that point XEmacs was a better editor so after using GNU Emacs for
> a few weeks I switched to XEmacs. It still meets my needs and I have
> no plan to switch away from it.

I never ran XEmacs, but I watched a documentary once that said that
XEmacs was born out of something to do with font locking---my intuition
says XEmacs started out with coloring?  IIRC, Stallman or someone would
have said that the idea was not properly designed.  I can't recall, but
I might research the question and report back here.

> 2002 was the Dot Com bust, and after six months unemployment following
> a 2.1 degree from the best university in my country, I ended up in
> technical support.  To my surprise, I really enjoyed solving people’s
> problems then and there.  Continued working in IT here in Europe (got
> out of technical support given it was clear that was moving to India,
> was in software development roles) realised I was not going to be able
> to comfortably raise a family in the roles I was doing.

Understandable.  (I began in technical support as well, but ``I ended
up'' a mathematician.)

> 2007 my parents pointed me towards a new “Graduate Entry Medicine”
> course in Dublin, on the US model of requiring another degree but
> being only four years in length; I realised from the technical support
> experience that I would likely enjoy the day-to-day of this, and you
> can comfortably raise a family in medicine in Ireland.

That makes sense.

> Studied medicine 2008-2012, worked like a demon 2013-2021, and am no
> longer at the point where I have to work and study relentlessly to
> make forward progress.  Very happy with the job and with my
> day-to-day, and I finally have a bit of breathing space to be back on
> Usenet.

Cool!

> If you use any emacs it’s hard to avoid Lisp. Emacs Lisp is not a paragon of
> good design nor of good implementation-- (aset (symbol-name nil) 0 ?\u0192) ,
> (fillarray obarray 0) , anyone?--so the natural thing is to look around for
> something better. The consensus within XEmacs was that Common Lisp was better.
> On investigating, yes, it is. But, XEmacs needs work, no-one else is doing it,
> so my software work these days is C with a very Common-Lisp-oriented Emacs
> Lisp.

I tried the code above on the GNU EMACS.  The first crashes it
immediately.  The second doesn't seem to do its job anymore, throwing a
type error.  They must have created a new type called obarray.  Saying
(type-of obarray) produces obarray, while fillarray expects a vector.

--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---
fillarray is a primitive-function in ‘C source code’.

(fillarray ARRAY ITEM)

Store each element of ARRAY with ITEM.
ARRAY is a vector, string, char-table, or bool-vector.

[back]
--8<-------------------------------------------------------->8---

>  > > This would require essentially assembler written with the quality of
>  > > the Apollo code, without an operating system. (I’m sure everyone
>  > > reading this accepts that good assembler, if it has no bugs, is going
>  > > to make better use of the hardware than their language of choice.)
>  > 
>  > Perfectly reasonable.
>  > 
>  > > The trade-off is that the resulting software is slower than the above
>  > > ideal, and, e.g. that my Windows install decides that it is going to
>  > > update whether I like it or not and the Cygwin terminal that I had
>  > > open, in the middle of debugging something, with a command history
>  > > that I would ideally like to have kept, evaporates.
>  > 
>  > Isn't that irritating?  Windows is a system that's really not very
>  > respectful at all with what the user is doing---lots of interruptions
>  > such as alerts by Windows Defender and whatnot.  Many other programmers
>  > on Windows follow suit, so it's not Microsoft's fault completely.  And
>  > that might be the same thing in the usual GNU system these days.  For
>  > window management, I run CWM, which is one that really only lets
>  > anything happen that the user has actively made it happen.
>
> The comment wasn’t intended to be specifically about Windows, that
> just happened to be the most recent example that sprung to mind. All
> the common operating systems take time to boot, time which would
> ideally be spent doing what you, as the user, actually wish to
> do. Even resume-from-hibernation is not instant.

It'll be very cool when that is so.  (A quick tangent.)

Incidentally, two things I don't like in computers---(1) I don't like to
keep them on if they're not being used; (2) I don't like a slow start-up
nor messy output on the screen.  Don't get me wrong: my favorite
start-up output is by OpenBSD because they've kept the old-style boot
process and it seems the system is never blankly waiting for anything.
What I really dislike about the Linux kernel is how it quickly puts the
video in some high-resolution mode, which flashes the screen.  I wish it
had stuck with the old-style of only changing video mode when starting X
up---or at least when it had a readable text output like OpenBSD does.
(And no I wouldn't like to see a graphical something instead of kernel
messages: I like kernel messages because they're very informative.  I
put the Linux kernel in loglevel=7, one less than the greatest.)

I've tried various things with it---for example, here's a kernel
argument I use: video=eDP-2:800x600.  But it still switches resolution
during boot.

> All of the common operating systems update, often requiring a reboot,
> taking time which would ideally be spent doing what you, as the user,
> actually wish to do.
>
> Even if the update process is manual, e.g. when I’m using Debian and
> migrating a server to a new VM, I do not actually want to spend my
> time working out with trial and error what invocation of certbot will
> allow me to put Letsencrypt certificates on a new server that already
> has Apache installed. (Spoiler; spin down Apache, use certbot
> --certonly, which spins up its own HTTP server.)

Speaking of which, I think the renewal should be easier.  Having to shut
down your web server to renew certificates is pretty odd to me.  I know
one can renew it via zone authentication and it can be automated using
APIs, but that's also frustrating---most DNS hosts have their own
specific API, forcing one to have to program the solution out.  Oh, and
wildcarded certificates /must/ be renewed via DNS (IIRC), that is, you
can't spin a web server to authenticate and renew.

> (I certainly don’t want to have to migrate well-written PHP of twenty
> years ago that carefully wrapped access to a database using
> then-best-practice APIs because those APIs are unmaintained and
> removed, but that is entirely on me, we all know PHP is terrible, and
> I knew it then. But Debian shouldn’t be terrible, and in the grand
> scheme of things it isn’t terrible.)

What did you write 20 years ago?  That's indeed PHP's prime time.  I
know the language.  I used it seriously back then as well.  I never went
into PHP 4, remaining in PHP 3 for as long as I could until I gave up on
PHP completely---I've always appreciated language stability.

> There are reasons and many of them are good for these things. I don’t
> plan to switch my day-to-day to TempleOS. But that we have them is a
> trade off.

Lol.  TempleOS.  I watched some documentaries on it (on YouTube).  I was
happy to see such systems out there and I think they're likely pretty
good learning opportunities, obviously for the genius who made it, but
certainly as well for anyone who looks into it, specially now with the
help of these smart-systems (may we enjoy them while they last?).

>  > And speaking of Medicine, how is it disrespectful these days as
>  > well, but I won't digress on this (and it's perhaps just something
>  > that plagues the entirety of society).
>
> What do you mean? Respect towards and from medicine varies by
> country. Doctors are regularly assaulted in India by family members of
> patients unhappy with the patients’ care. I get Christmas presents.

It is indeed.  If my sources are correct, in the United States (for
example), we get deaths due to medical error top ranked---I don't mean
top 1st, but highly ranked (top 3 a while ago?).

But what I had meant was that I get the feeling from hearing from the
population that the attention and time doctors spend with patients now
has been greatly reduced; that doctors are often rude, get easily
irritated and so on.  That then makes me think they might be working too
much.  I in fact see a parallel with programmers: in the typical
company, the typical programmer can be slightly arrogant, easily
irritated, the explanation for which might be too much work, not very
competent and not living very joyful days.  So in the end I don't see
anything specific to Medicine, but something much larger.  I'm a student
at a large university---what can I say about professors?  They're very
easily offended with students' lack of interest; they inadvertently and
incorrectly take a lot of things personally; my overall conclusion is
that they're not doing very well health-wise, not living very joyful
days (they might miss days in which there was more glamour in the
profession, when they feel they would be better regarded).  Something
like that.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61438

Fromtfb <tfb@work.it.out>
Date2026-08-13 15:39 +0000
Message-ID<115kog6$1opep$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61437
Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> wrote:
 
> I never ran XEmacs, but I watched a documentary once that said that
> XEmacs was born out of something to do with font locking---my intuition
> says XEmacs started out with coloring?  IIRC, Stallman or someone would
> have said that the idea was not properly designed.  I can't recall, but
> I might research the question and report back here.
> 

The Emacs schism was not fundamentally technical: it happened because
cooperation with RMS is impossible.  Lucid needed some features in what
would have been Emacs 19 to support a programming environment (for C++, I
think, not Lisp, despite them being Lucid) and were willing to donate the
time to implement them & donate the results (remember Emacs 18 had an
entirely minimal interface to X: equivalent to running it in a terminal
emulator).  And ... cooperation with RMS turned out to be impossible.  So
LEmacs happened, which became XEmacs after Lucid died.

I wasn't there, but I was around a few months later and perhaps before the
split was really final.  I perhaps no longer have the trove of emails from
the split: they made depressing reading.

(If you're thinking of posting a followup explaining why cooperation with
RMS is, in fact, possible, just ... don't, please.)

-- 
tfeb.org/computer/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61446

FromAnton Antimo <anton@safunu.org>
Date2026-08-13 16:52 -0300
Message-ID<87qzk1g5mr.fsf@safunu.org>
In reply to#61438
tfb <tfb@work.it.out> writes:

> Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> wrote:
>  
>> I never ran XEmacs, but I watched a documentary once that said that
>> XEmacs was born out of something to do with font locking---my intuition
>> says XEmacs started out with coloring?  IIRC, Stallman or someone would
>> have said that the idea was not properly designed.  I can't recall, but
>> I might research the question and report back here.
>
> The Emacs schism was not fundamentally technical: it happened because
> cooperation with RMS is impossible.  Lucid needed some features in what
> would have been Emacs 19 to support a programming environment (for C++, I
> think, not Lisp, despite them being Lucid) and were willing to donate the
> time to implement them & donate the results (remember Emacs 18 had an
> entirely minimal interface to X: equivalent to running it in a terminal
> emulator).  And ... cooperation with RMS turned out to be impossible.  So
> LEmacs happened, which became XEmacs after Lucid died.
>
> I wasn't there, but I was around a few months later and perhaps before the
> split was really final.  I perhaps no longer have the trove of emails from
> the split: they made depressing reading.
>
> (If you're thinking of posting a followup explaining why cooperation with
> RMS is, in fact, possible, just ... don't, please.)

Thank you for describing the matter.  You must be the best one here to
elaborate on the schism?  Can you elaborate it more technically?  For
instance, there's font locking today on the GNU EMACS---was it done in a
dramatically different way relative to LEmacs?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61448

FromJohann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid>
Date2026-08-14 05:04 +0800
Message-ID<wjqfS.168595$4Ra7.13258@fx16.ams4>
In reply to#61446
On 14/08/2026 3:52 AM, Anton Antimo wrote:
> tfb <tfb@work.it.out> writes:
> 
>> Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> wrote:
>>   
>>> I never ran XEmacs, but I watched a documentary once that said that
>>> XEmacs was born out of something to do with font locking---my intuition
>>> says XEmacs started out with coloring?  IIRC, Stallman or someone would
>>> have said that the idea was not properly designed.  I can't recall, but
>>> I might research the question and report back here.
>>
>> The Emacs schism was not fundamentally technical: it happened because
>> cooperation with RMS is impossible.  Lucid needed some features in what
>> would have been Emacs 19 to support a programming environment (for C++, I
>> think, not Lisp, despite them being Lucid) and were willing to donate the
>> time to implement them & donate the results (remember Emacs 18 had an
>> entirely minimal interface to X: equivalent to running it in a terminal
>> emulator).  And ... cooperation with RMS turned out to be impossible.  So
>> LEmacs happened, which became XEmacs after Lucid died.
>>
>> I wasn't there, but I was around a few months later and perhaps before the
>> split was really final.  I perhaps no longer have the trove of emails from
>> the split: they made depressing reading.
>>
>> (If you're thinking of posting a followup explaining why cooperation with
>> RMS is, in fact, possible, just ... don't, please.)
> 
> Thank you for describing the matter.  You must be the best one here to
> elaborate on the schism?  Can you elaborate it more technically?  For
> instance, there's font locking today on the GNU EMACS---was it done in a
> dramatically different way relative to LEmacs?

Just to chime in for the newcomers who don't know about this publicly
available summary.

   https://www.xemacs.org/Documentation/21.5/html/internals_4.html

And.

   https://www.xemacs.org/About/XEmacsVsGNUemacs.html

That said, I do hope tfb is willing to write out a technical summary, or
even a social one like in the first link.

Note that since then, GNU Emacs did indeed add loadable modules in C.


Adding comp.emacs.xemacs to the discussion, because that group shouldn't
be empty all the time.


Happy text editing in XEmacs!
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61473

FromAnton Antimo <anton@safunu.org>
Date2026-08-14 08:16 -0300
Message-ID<87tsoxc5qb.fsf@safunu.org>
In reply to#61448
Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> writes:

> On 14/08/2026 3:52 AM, Anton Antimo wrote:
>> tfb <tfb@work.it.out> writes:
>> 
>>> Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> wrote:
>>>   
>>>> I never ran XEmacs, but I watched a documentary once that said that
>>>> XEmacs was born out of something to do with font locking---my intuition
>>>> says XEmacs started out with coloring?  IIRC, Stallman or someone would
>>>> have said that the idea was not properly designed.  I can't recall, but
>>>> I might research the question and report back here.
>>>
>>> The Emacs schism was not fundamentally technical: it happened because
>>> cooperation with RMS is impossible.  Lucid needed some features in what
>>> would have been Emacs 19 to support a programming environment (for C++, I
>>> think, not Lisp, despite them being Lucid) and were willing to donate the
>>> time to implement them & donate the results (remember Emacs 18 had an
>>> entirely minimal interface to X: equivalent to running it in a terminal
>>> emulator).  And ... cooperation with RMS turned out to be impossible.  So
>>> LEmacs happened, which became XEmacs after Lucid died.
>>>
>>> I wasn't there, but I was around a few months later and perhaps before the
>>> split was really final.  I perhaps no longer have the trove of emails from
>>> the split: they made depressing reading.
>>>
>>> (If you're thinking of posting a followup explaining why cooperation with
>>> RMS is, in fact, possible, just ... don't, please.)
>>
>> Thank you for describing the matter.  You must be the best one here
>> to elaborate on the schism?  Can you elaborate it more technically?
>> For instance, there's font locking today on the GNU EMACS---was it
>> done in a dramatically different way relative to LEmacs?
>
> Just to chime in for the newcomers who don't know about this publicly
> available summary.
>
>   https://www.xemacs.org/Documentation/21.5/html/internals_4.html
>
> And.
>
>   https://www.xemacs.org/About/XEmacsVsGNUemacs.html
>
> That said, I do hope tfb is willing to write out a technical summary, or
> even a social one like in the first link.

Thank you.  I'm still reading, but that's likely enough---let's free tfb
from the task (unless we have further questions).

> Note that since then, GNU Emacs did indeed add loadable modules in C.
>
> Adding comp.emacs.xemacs to the discussion, because that group shouldn't
> be empty all the time.

Yes---the USENET is meant for users, so let's use it.

> Happy text editing in XEmacs!

Writing this from 

  GNU Emacs 30.2 (build 2, x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version
  3.24.50, cairo version 1.18.4) of 2026-01-19.

Have a good day.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61454

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-08-14 00:11 +0000
Message-ID<115lmg6$23hfr$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61446
On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 11:42:36 -0300, Anton Antimo wrote:

> I never ran XEmacs, but I watched a documentary once that said that
> XEmacs was born out of something to do with font locking---my
> intuition says XEmacs started out with coloring? IIRC, Stallman or
> someone would have said that the idea was not properly designed.

A bit more informative as to the details, from someone with first-hand
knowledge: <https://www.jwz.org/doc/lemacs.html>.

(He does describe the XEmacs account I linked to earlier as
“pusillanimous” ...)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61455

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2026-08-13 17:16 -0700
Message-ID<87lda9pneh.fsf@nightsong.com>
In reply to#61446
Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> writes:
> Thank you for describing the matter.  You must be the best one here to
> elaborate on the schism?  Can you elaborate it more technically?  For
> instance, there's font locking today on the GNU EMACS---was it done in a
> dramatically different way relative to LEmacs?

I spoke with RMS about this at some length back in the day.  I don't
remember the specifics but yes it involved disagreements about the X
interface.  I do remember that he said that it was philosophically ok to
fork a codebase if such a disagreement couldn't be solved.  He
considered that to be one of the virtues of free software.

That is, he didn't find the XEmacs split to be morally objectionable,
but he was somewhat disappointed that it had come to that.

I'm not big on putting blames on personalities in a thing like this, but
I would say RMS and JWZ can both be difficult.  So putting both in the
same "room" might not have worked out so well.

I don't know how different GNU Emacs and XEmacs are from each other
nowadays.  I do know that GNU Emacs's X support has gotten fancier since
those days.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61468

Fromtfb <tfb@work.it.out>
Date2026-08-14 10:27 +0000
Message-ID<115mqjb$2etbb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61446
Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> wrote:

Person A: 'The Emacs schism was not fundamentally technical'

Person B: 'Can you elaborate it more technically?'

Can you see the problem here?


-- 
tfeb.org/computer/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61447

FromCóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com>
Date2026-08-13 20:35 +0000
Message-ID<115l9qk$3dga2$2@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#61437
I suppose that a typical medic is of a different personality type than
a typical computer programmer. I do not think that being overworked is
the overriding cause of the behavior of medics and programmers.
(S. HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/ fuer Kontaktdaten!)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61475

FromAnton Antimo <anton@safunu.org>
Date2026-08-14 08:04 -0300
Message-ID<871pc1dktl.fsf@safunu.org>
In reply to#61447
Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com> writes:

> I suppose that a typical medic is of a different personality type than
> a typical computer programmer. I do not think that being overworked is
> the overriding cause of the behavior of medics and programmers.
> (S. HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/ fuer Kontaktdaten!)

I'd fully agree that it's not the root cause for sure.  A depressed
person could plunge into work, say, but could plunge into alcohol or
other as well.  Don't take all the vagueness I wrote too deeply.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61452

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-08-13 23:58 +0000
Message-ID<115llmu$22o43$7@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61437
On Thu, 13 Aug 2026 11:42:36 -0300, Anton Antimo wrote:

> I never ran XEmacs, but I watched a documentary once that said that
> XEmacs was born out of something to do with font locking---my
> intuition says XEmacs started out with coloring? IIRC, Stallman or
> someone would have said that the idea was not properly designed.

Why not start here
<https://www.xemacs.org/Documentation/21.5/html/xemacs-faq_1.html#Q1_002e6_002e1>.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61463

FromAidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net>
Date2026-08-14 09:27 +0100
Message-ID<27262.53635.232313.329919@parhasard.net>
In reply to#61437
 Ar an triú lá déag de mí Lúnasa, scríobh Anton Antimo: 

 > Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> writes:
 > 
 > > [...] My first degree was 1998-2002 and the professor (clearly taking
 > > shelter from the first AI winter) assigned the GNU Emacs manual as
 > > required reading for the first class. (This is, I understand, not
 > > typical.)
 > 
 > Very atypical these days.  Your first degree must have been Computer
 > Science?  So you got two degrees.  Having a degree or not in such areas,
 > I think that understanding the fundamentals of computers and programming
 > is a pretty good skill these days.  There might be other areas I miss
 > for sheer lack of wisdom here.

Certainly helpful when I’m making LAN changes or switching the practice
management software to a new server and can do it on the weekend, rather than
close down the place for a day.

To be honest the fundamentals are not the biggest help; it is the experience
debugging things and having a feel for what the underlying problem is likely to
be, that allows you to prioritise investigating one plausible cause over
another.

 > I took a ``programming 102'' engineering class a few years ago in which
 > the professor offered us a ZIP package containing the GNU EMACS set up
 > with Python.  Students on the first day of class protested against their
 > ``programming 101'' (a Python primer) saying it was essentially useless
 > with no real-world anything (which I fully agree: that course's real
 > objective was to teach us the syntax of Python [with no OOP, which is
 > the job of ``programming 102'']).
 > 
 > The professor replied saying he would present us with some illustrations
 > of real-world stuff.  To my surprise, one of these things was the GNU
 > EMACS.  His EMACS came with all of its default configuration but some
 > additional ones for people to run Python and ESHELL.  (To run it, we'd
 > double click on a icon on the desktop.) Students were welcome to ignore
 > it all and use Python's IDLE or whatever, which I think 99% of them did.
 > What students couldn't ignore, which was cool (lol), was that the way to
 > turn in homework was through fossil.  The professor introduced us to
 > fossil in another lecture, saying he chose fossil over git due to
 > slightly greater simplicity (compared to git, which I couldn't quite
 > see).  I was likely the one exception that didn't struggle with
 > fossil----I had never heard of it until then, but I've been using git
 > for years. 

I hadn’t come across it. Anything the SQLite people do or use tends to be
excellent, which is a good sign. 

 > Anyway, after these lectures, he went on with the course, which didn't work
 > very well at all because I think after the GNU EMACS and fossil most
 > students had already given up on him---there were many other professors
 > teaching the same course in a way that it had a lot less new things to
 > learn.
 > 
 > > At that point XEmacs was a better editor so after using GNU Emacs for
 > > a few weeks I switched to XEmacs. It still meets my needs and I have
 > > no plan to switch away from it.
 > 
 > I never ran XEmacs, but I watched a documentary once that said that
 > XEmacs was born out of something to do with font locking---my intuition
 > says XEmacs started out with coloring?  IIRC, Stallman or someone would
 > have said that the idea was not properly designed.  I can't recall, but
 > I might research the question and report back here.

I wasn’t around then. In 1998 the GNU Emacs GUI was remedial and there was a
lot more momentum to XEmacs development and engagement. These have both changed
in favour of GNU Emacs.

 > > [...] If you use any emacs it’s hard to avoid Lisp. Emacs Lisp is not a
 > > paragon of good design nor of good implementation-- (aset (symbol-name
 > > nil) 0 ?\u0192) , (fillarray obarray 0) , anyone?--so the natural thing is
 > > to look around for something better. The consensus within XEmacs was that
 > > Common Lisp was better. On investigating, yes, it is. But, XEmacs needs
 > > work, no-one else is doing it, so my software work these days is C with a
 > > very Common-Lisp-oriented Emacs Lisp.
 > 
 > I tried the code above on the GNU EMACS.  The first crashes it
 > immediately.  The second doesn't seem to do its job anymore, throwing a
 > type error.  They must have created a new type called obarray.  Saying
 > (type-of obarray) produces obarray, while fillarray expects a vector.

Ah, they’ve improved that, then. Unclear to my why they didn’t just use a hash
table. Gerd Möllman implemented the right thing, CL packages, here:
https://github.com/gerd-moellmann/emacs-with-cl-packages . Stallman hated that,
as is his way, so that’s probably why they’ve done what they did. It’s on my
todo list (and already started) to integrate Gerd’s code into XEmacs.

We currently just use a hash table for obarray, but this has the disadvantage
that you can #'clrhash on it, which has the same problem as #'fillarray.

 > > (I certainly don’t want to have to migrate well-written PHP of twenty
 > > years ago that carefully wrapped access to a database using
 > > then-best-practice APIs because those APIs are unmaintained and
 > > removed, but that is entirely on me, we all know PHP is terrible, and
 > > I knew it then. But Debian shouldn’t be terrible, and in the grand
 > > scheme of things it isn’t terrible.)
 > 
 > What did you write 20 years ago? 

Just a blog, some utility code to backup my pinboard.in account, and allow 403
redirects to the underlying URL when I supply a combination of tags from there
to a script on my server (I find this means I don’t need to port my local
bookmarks from machine to machine), and code to access a copyrighted German
dictionary whose entries I had extracted from a CDROM. (I was living in Germany
at the time and my German was not where it is now.)

 > That's indeed PHP's prime time. I know the language. I used it seriously
 > back then as well. I never went into PHP 4, remaining in PHP 3 for as long
 > as I could until I gave up on PHP completely---I've always appreciated
 > language stability.

Yep, it’s very valuable. Though *very* tempting as a language developer to
deprecate then remove things.

 > >  > [...] And speaking of Medicine, how is it disrespectful these days as
 > >  > well, but I won't digress on this (and it's perhaps just something that
 > >  > plagues the entirety of society).
 > >
 > > What do you mean? Respect towards and from medicine varies by
 > > country. Doctors are regularly assaulted in India by family members of
 > > patients unhappy with the patients’ care. I get Christmas presents.
 > 
 > It is indeed.  If my sources are correct, in the United States (for
 > example), we get deaths due to medical error top ranked---I don't mean
 > top 1st, but highly ranked (top 3 a while ago?).

Preventable deaths are mostly diet, exercise, smoking, public health related,
together with easy access to a GP.

I have plenty of US tourists who attend me, and I am impressed by the technical
interventions done for previous acute issues they have had. Diet, exercise and
easy access to a GP are often not great.

 > But what I had meant was that I get the feeling from hearing from the
 > population that the attention and time doctors spend with patients now
 > has been greatly reduced; that doctors are often rude, get easily
 > irritated and so on.  That then makes me think they might be working too
 > much. 

My understanding (though I haven’t worked in the US) is that the insurance
companies over the last couple of decades introduced pre-authorisations and
other overhead that effectively decreases the amount reimbursed for the time
spent dealing with the patients. This meant that it was no longer (usually)
practical to set up on your own, since the administration work and staff to
deal with the insurance companies needed to be amortised over multiple
clinicians. So most doctors over there are now employed, and if you’re expected
to work at the intensity of a business owner with little to no financial upside
for working harder, it’s easy to get irritated. And, in my experience, it is
easier to be happy when you’re making most of the decisions that influence your
work environment yourself.

 > I in fact see a parallel with programmers: in the typical company, the
 > typical programmer can be slightly arrogant, easily irritated, the
 > explanation for which might be too much work, not very competent and not
 > living very joyful days. So in the end I don't see anything specific to
 > Medicine, but something much larger. I'm a student at a large
 > university---what can I say about professors? They're very easily offended
 > with students' lack of interest; they inadvertently and incorrectly take a
 > lot of things personally; my overall conclusion is that they're not doing
 > very well health-wise, not living very joyful days (they might miss days in
 > which there was more glamour in the profession, when they feel they would be
 > better regarded). Something like that.

IMO a lot of the Computer Science professors were under-socialised and had no
fundamental interest in dealing with people. The lecturers in medicine (who
were normally working doctors) were much more socially skilled and teaching
came easier to them.

-- 
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61400

Fromsteve g <Sgonedes1977@gmail.com>
Date2026-08-11 23:35 -0400
Message-ID<87zeysroxg.fsf@gmail.com>
In reply to#61376
Anton Antimo <anton@safunu.org> writes:

> Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> writes:
>
>>  Ar an deichiú lá de mí Lúnasa, scríobh Lawrence D’Oliveiro: 
>>
>>  > On Sun, 09 Aug 2026 18:42:29 -0400, steve g wrote:
>>  > 
>>  > > [...] GC is for user space, not kernel space. Kernel developers are
>>  > > usually very good programmers.
>>  > 
>>  > Do different laws of physics apply in kernel space or something?
>>  > And/or is that an admission that garbage collection is not for “very
>>  > good programmers”?
>>
>> Let me digress for a moment:
>>
>> Within medicine, my day job, [...]
>
> Very cool that we have people from areas such as medicine here. (In
> reality, there's no academic discipline called programming---people in
> Computer Science are more often than not not programmers at all.)
> Medicine, in particular, is an unexpected one.  Can you share a bit more
> about your history as in how did you get interested in medicine and
> computers (and Lisp specially)?  That'd be cool to hear.  (Assuming a
> little social chat is acceptable here given the current low volume.)

Yes, yes; I want to hear more from the doc!


>> This would require essentially assembler written with the quality of
>> the Apollo code, without an operating system. (I’m sure everyone
>> reading this accepts that good assembler, if it has no bugs, is going
>> to make better use of the hardware than their language of choice.)
>
> Perfectly reasonable.
>
>> The trade-off is that the resulting software is slower than the above
>> ideal, and, e.g. that my Windows install decides that it is going to
>> update whether I like it or not and the Cygwin terminal that I had
>> open, in the middle of debugging something, with a command history
>> that I would ideally like to have kept, evaporates.
>
> Isn't that irritating?  Windows is a system that's really not very
> respectful at all with what the user is doing---lots of interruptions
> such as alerts by Windows Defender and whatnot.  Many other programmers
> on Windows follow suit, so it's not Microsoft's fault completely.  And
> that might be the same thing in the usual GNU system these days.  For
> window management, I run CWM, which is one that really only lets
> anything happen that the user has actively made it happen.

> And speaking of Medicine, how is it disrespectful these days as well,
> but I won't digress on this (and it's perhaps just something that
> plagues the entirety of society).

The same way programming is, some people are more talented and more
motivated to be the best person they can. Some people just don't give a
shit - they have what we call an external locust of controll. They care
about perception that science.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61384

FromCóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com>
Date2026-08-11 18:35 +0000
Message-ID<115fq2c$2oijj$1@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#61375
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"If there were no resource constraints, a fully informed user aware of what is|
|possible would like bug-free software that does exactly what is desired as    |
|quickly as the hardware can do it.                                            |
|                                                                              |
|[. . .]                                                                       |
|Operating systems, [. . .] are all examples                                   |
|of tools that make programming [. . .] less likely to have bugs."             |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
arsa Aodhán ó Ceothánaigh ar an 11ú lá de mhí Lúnasa 2026.

Windows is buggy.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"This means that the cost ([. . .] often in money) of developing software to  |
|do a given thing goes down. [. . .]                                           |
|[. . .]                                                                       |
|                                                                              |
|[. . .]                                                                       |
|[. . .] my Windows install decides that it is going to update whether I       |
|like it or not"                                                               |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
arsa Aodhán ó Ciothaigh ar an 11ú lá de mhí Lúnasa 2026.

A license for Windows costs money.

|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"and the Cygwin terminal that I had open, in the middle of                    |
|debugging something, with a command history that I would ideally like to have |
|kept, evaporates."                                                            |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
arsa Aodhán mac Eochadha ar an 11ú lá de mhí Lúnasa 2026.

Is BASh on Windoze without its features on gratis operating systems?


cat .bash_profile
[. . .]

unset HISTSIZE
unset HISTFILESIZE
mkdir -p ~/backed_up_shell_histories
cp $HISTFILE ~/"backed_up_shell_histories/bash_history_""`date --reference=$HISTFILE '+timestamped_%Y-%m-%d_%H:%M'`""_backed_up_by_Process"$$"_on_""`date '+%Y-%m-%d_%H:%M'`"
HISTTIMEFORMAT="%s"

[. . .]

shopt -s histappend
PROMPT_COMMAND='history -a'

[. . .]



info bash
[. . .]

[. . .]

'PROMPT_COMMAND'
     If this variable is set, and is an array, the value of each set
     element is interpreted as a command to execute before printing the
     primary prompt ('$PS1').  If this is set but not an array variable,
     its value is used as a command to execute instead.

[. . .]

'history'
          history [N]
          history -c
          history -d OFFSET
          history -d START-END
          history [-anrw] [FILENAME]
          history -ps ARG

     With no options, display the history list with line numbers.  Lines
     prefixed with a '*' have been modified.  An argument of N lists
     only the last N lines.  If the shell variable 'HISTTIMEFORMAT' is
     set and not null, it is used as a format string for STRFTIME to
     display the time stamp associated with each displayed history
     entry.  No intervening blank is printed between the formatted time
     stamp and the history line.

     Options, if supplied, have the following meanings:

[. . .]

     '-a'
          Append the new history lines to the history file.  These are
          history lines entered since the beginning of the current Bash
          session, but not already appended to the history file.


ls backed_up_shell_histories/bash_history_timestamped_2023* | wc --lines
1897

ls backed_up_shell_histories/bash_history_timestamped_2024* | wc --lines
2658

ls backed_up_shell_histories/bash_history_timestamped_2025* | wc --lines
2963

wc --bytes backed_up_shell_histories/bash_history_timestamped_2023*
[. . .]
48862565 total

wc --bytes backed_up_shell_histories/bash_history_timestamped_2024*
[. . .]
74706247 total

wc --bytes backed_up_shell_histories/bash_history_timestamped_2025*
[. . .]
87638922 total


Is mise le meas,
Niocláisín Cóilín Glostéir
(S. HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/ fuer Kontaktdaten!)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61387

FromAidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net>
Date2026-08-11 21:14 +0100
Message-ID<27259.33462.178918.737234@parhasard.net>
In reply to#61384
 Ar an t-aonú lá déag de mí Lúnasa, scríobh Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir: 

 > |------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 > |"If there were no resource constraints, a fully informed user aware of what is|
 > |possible would like bug-free software that does exactly what is desired as    |
 > |quickly as the hardware can do it.                                            |
 > |                                                                              |
 > |[. . .]                                                                       |
 > |Operating systems, [. . .] are all examples                                   |
 > |of tools that make programming [. . .] less likely to have bugs."             |
 > |------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 > arsa Aodhán ó Ceothánaigh ar an 11ú lá de mhí Lúnasa 2026.
 > 
 > Windows is buggy.

Tá a fhios agam.

 > |------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 > |"This means that the cost ([. . .] often in money) of developing software to  |
 > |do a given thing goes down. [. . .]                                           |
 > |[. . .]                                                                       |
 > |                                                                              |
 > |[. . .]                                                                       |
 > |[. . .] my Windows install decides that it is going to update whether I       |
 > |like it or not"                                                               |
 > |------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 > arsa Aodhán ó Ciothaigh ar an 11ú lá de mhí Lúnasa 2026.
 > 
 > A license for Windows costs money.

Tá a fhios agam. Bhíos ag scríobh go ginearálta. Tá fadhbanna ag Linux, ag
OpenBSD; níl aon ghá le airgead chun OpenBSD a usáid.

 > |------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 > |"and the Cygwin terminal that I had open, in the middle of                    |
 > |debugging something, with a command history that I would ideally like to have |
 > |kept, evaporates."                                                            |
 > |------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 > arsa Aodhán mac Eochadha ar an 11ú lá de mhí Lúnasa 2026.
 > 
 > Is BASh on Windoze without its features on gratis operating systems?

If I am going to configure my Cygwin environment I will install zsh and turn on
its history. That’s more work, beyond what I actually currently want to do
with the computer; thank you for supporting my point.

I notice you got the leagan Gaeilge of my surname completely wrong on first and
second attempts and then the thirdq attempt was much closer to the actuality. 
Are you by any chance writing your posts using a large language model?

 > Is mise le meas,
 > Niocláisín Cóilín Glostéir
 > (S. HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/ fuer Kontaktdaten!)

-- 
‘As I sat looking up at the Guinness ad, I could never figure out /
How your man stayed up on the surfboard after fourteen pints of stout’
(C. Moore)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61390

FromCóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com>
Date2026-08-11 21:01 +0000
Message-ID<115g2j1$2p1ju$1@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#61387
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|" Ar an t-aonú lá déag"                                                        |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
arsa tusa ar an aonú ló dhéag den mhí so. (So is not a misspelling of seo.)

|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|" de mí Lúnasa, scríobh Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir:"                            |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
arsa tusa i rith lae de mhí.

Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@Parhasard.net> wrote:
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"[. . .] Tá fadhbanna ag Linux, ag                                             |
|OpenBSD; [. . .]"                                                              |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Bíonn ceart agat.

|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"I notice you got the leagan Gaeilge of my surname completely wrong on first and|
|second attempts [. . .]"                                                        |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Wieso?

|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"Are you by any chance writing your posts using a large language model?"       |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

Nein. However, the most recent (almost finished but still unfinished)
refereeing by me is for a typescript whose name includes "LLMs".

Is mise le meas,
Nioclás Pól Caileán de Gloucester
(S. HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/ fuer Kontaktdaten!)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61397

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-08-12 01:20 +0000
Message-ID<115ghp3$eo02$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61384
On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 18:35:58 -0000 (UTC), Cóilín Nioclásín Glostéir wrote:

> Is BASh on Windoze without its features on gratis operating systems?

It’s not about gratis, it’s about libre.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61409

FromCóilín Nioclásín Glostéir <thanks-to@Taf.com>
Date2026-08-12 09:12 +0000
Message-ID<115hdel$30qb7$1@paganini.bofh.team>
In reply to#61397
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"> Is BASh on Windoze without its features on gratis operating systems?|
|                                                                       |
|It’s not about gratis, it’s about libre."                              |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------|

I use a probably gratis copy of a libre operating system. One can buy
a libre non-gratis copy.
(S. HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/ fuer Kontaktdaten!)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61396

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-08-12 01:19 +0000
Message-ID<115ghn0$eo02$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61375
On Tue, 11 Aug 2026 11:19:08 +0100, Aidan Kehoe wrote:

> This would require essentially assembler written with the quality of
> the Apollo code, without an operating system.

The Apollo code *did* have an operating system. And remember, it
crashed twice during the Apollo 11 landing. And got very confused by
that lightning strike during the Apollo 12 launch.

> For me, garbage collection as it is actually implemented (I would
> phrase this »real existierende Garbage-Collection« in German, by
> analogy with »real existierender Sozialismus) has a non-negligible
> runtime cost. This is usually acceptable but sometimes not.

My point exactly. And that cost is greater than that for
reference-counting, for reasons I have already mentioned. Which is why
Python and Perl prefer to use reference-counting as a first resort,
only falling back to garbage collection when there is actual garbage
to be collected.

Some stubborn people keep refusing to accept this point.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#61417

Fromtfb <tfb@work.it.out>
Date2026-08-12 16:25 +0000
Message-ID<115i6ov$v57f$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#61396
Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
> The Apollo code *did* have an operating system. And remember, it
> crashed twice during the Apollo 11 landing. And got very confused by
> that lightning strike during the Apollo 12 launch.
> 

It had an OS in roughly the same sense that the 1802 code I used to write
had an OS.

It did not crash during the Apollo 11 powered descent.  It detected that it
couldn't handle all the data, said this, then threw away the data it
couldn't handle and carried on.  It did that by resetting itself, but
that's not a crash: that was how it was designed to deal with this
eventuality.

I think that during the Apollo 12 event the AGC (which was not in use at
the time: the DSKY was covered up by a checklist until it was removed
during the event) did say true things: they did in fact lose the platform
and it didn't know the attitude of the spacecraft as a result.  Fortunately
it didn't need to as the IU was running the ascent

-- 
tfeb.org/computer/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 15 of 32 — ← Prev page 1 … 13 14 [15] 16 17 … 32  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.lisp


csiph-web