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Groups > comp.lang.javascript > #18637 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "Tony" <tony.johansson@inport.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-02-26 11:54 +0100 |
| Last post | 2013-02-28 09:19 +0100 |
| Articles | 19 on this page of 79 — 17 participants |
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Why is this returning NaN "Tony" <tony.johansson@inport.com> - 2013-02-26 11:54 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-02-26 12:09 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2013-02-26 13:45 +0200
Re: Why is this returning NaN "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2013-03-01 00:45 -0300
Re: Why is this returning NaN "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2013-03-01 01:13 -0300
Re: Why is this returning NaN Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-01 12:48 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2013-03-01 10:06 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-01 12:46 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-01 14:19 +0000
Re: Why is this returning NaN "Joao Rodrigues (J.R.)" <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2013-03-01 12:01 -0300
Re: Why is this returning NaN Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-01 21:03 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN "Joao Rodrigues (J.R.)" <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2013-03-01 18:25 -0300
Re: Why is this returning NaN Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-01 22:35 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2013-03-01 20:31 -0800
Re: Why is this returning NaN Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-02 12:49 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2013-03-03 12:32 -0300
Re: Why is this returning NaN "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2013-03-03 18:03 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> - 2013-03-03 10:16 -0700
OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-03-03 20:35 +0100
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN "Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> - 2013-03-03 21:43 +0200
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-03-03 19:45 +0000
"javascript" (was: OT: "javascript") Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-03 21:09 +0100
Re: "javascript" "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2013-03-03 23:19 -0300
Re: "javascript" Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-04 11:27 +0100
Re: "javascript" Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-03-04 13:09 +0000
Re: "javascript" Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-03-10 20:50 +0100
Re: "javascript" Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-03-10 20:29 +0000
Re: "javascript" Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-10 23:23 +0100
Re: "javascript" Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-03-10 22:48 +0000
Re: "javascript" Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-10 23:53 +0100
Re: "javascript" Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-03-10 23:23 +0000
Re: "javascript" Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-11 02:57 +0100
Re: "javascript" Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-03-11 08:55 +0000
Re: "javascript" Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-11 17:38 +0100
Re: "javascript" Dr J R Stockton <reply1300@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-12 19:29 +0000
Re: "javascript" Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2013-03-13 14:36 +1100
Re: "javascript" John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-13 15:20 +0000
Re: "javascript" Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2013-03-14 11:18 +1100
Re: "javascript" John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-14 10:43 +0000
Re: "javascript" Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2013-03-15 07:02 +1100
Re: "javascript" John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-15 10:28 +0000
Re: "javascript" Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2013-03-16 07:17 +1100
Re: "javascript" John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-16 12:04 +0000
Re: "javascript" Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2013-03-17 08:17 +1100
Re: "javascript" John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-17 11:13 +0000
Re: "javascript" Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2013-03-17 23:15 +1100
Re: "javascript" John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-17 16:42 +0000
Re: "javascript" Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2013-03-18 07:47 +1100
Re: "javascript" John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-18 15:01 +0000
Re: "javascript" Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2013-03-19 07:34 +1100
Re: "javascript" John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-19 15:04 +0000
Re: "javascript" Andrew Poulos <ap_prog@hotmail.com> - 2013-03-20 07:40 +1100
Re: "javascript" Mike Duffy <Use.web.form@website_in_sig.com> - 2013-03-13 12:03 +0000
Re: "javascript" Dr J R Stockton <reply1300@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-14 21:22 +0000
Re: "javascript" Mike Duffy <Use.web.form@website_in_sig.com> - 2013-03-15 01:44 +0000
Re: "javascript" Dr J R Stockton <reply1300@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-16 19:42 +0000
Re: "javascript" Mike Duffy <Use.web.form@website_in_sig.com> - 2013-03-17 18:25 +0000
Re: "javascript" Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-03-17 19:01 +0000
Re: "javascript" Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-03-15 10:55 -0700
Re: "javascript" John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-13 15:21 +0000
Re: "javascript" (was: OT: "javascript") Dr J R Stockton <reply1300@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-04 13:07 +0000
Re: "javascript" Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> - 2013-03-10 20:34 +0100
Re: "javascript" Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-03-10 19:39 +0000
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> - 2013-03-03 22:41 -0300
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2013-03-04 09:57 +0100
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-03-04 11:25 +0100
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-04 14:52 +0000
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN Eric Bednarz <bednarz@fahr-zur-hoelle.org> - 2013-03-10 01:02 +0100
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-10 10:52 +0000
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN Eric Bednarz <bednarz@fahr-zur-hoelle.org> - 2013-03-10 12:44 +0100
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-10 17:49 +0000
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN Eric Bednarz <bednarz@fahr-zur-hoelle.org> - 2013-03-20 01:21 +0100
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2013-03-20 15:25 +0000
Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN Eric Bednarz <bednarz@fahr-zur-hoelle.org> - 2013-03-30 01:28 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-02-26 12:00 +0000
Re: Why is this returning NaN Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2013-02-26 18:07 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> - 2013-02-26 13:42 +0100
Re: Why is this returning NaN Dr J R Stockton <reply1300@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> - 2013-02-27 20:43 +0000
Re: Why is this returning NaN "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> - 2013-02-28 09:19 +0100
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| From | Dr J R Stockton <reply1300@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-04 13:07 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: "javascript" (was: OT: "javascript") |
| Message-ID | <+YRpdiBCyJNRFwAL@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> |
| In reply to | #18699 |
In comp.lang.javascript message <34066243.TsYlmbHaBB@PointedEars.de>,
Sun, 3 Mar 2013 21:09:50, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de>
posted:
>(speakers of German may refer to the “Netiquette für "de.*"”, item 7).
There is no requirement to obey de.* in non-de.* newsgroups.
And Usenet, with I suppose de.*, is an excellent means of communication
for the deaf and/or dumb. Hierarchy de.* should not be concerning
itself about whether its participants possess the power of speech in a
reasonable approximation to German.
--
(c) John Stockton, nr London UK. ???@merlyn.demon.co.uk Turnpike v6.05 MIME.
Web <URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Check boilerplate spelling -- error is a public sign of incompetence.
Never fully trust an article from a poster who gives no full real name.
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| From | Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-10 20:34 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: "javascript" |
| Message-ID | <khin6c$o9v$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #18699 |
Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: > Christoph Becker wrote: > >> Evertjan. wrote: >>>> Brendan Eich, the creator of JavaScript, >>> According to sources on this NG, >>> he cannot have created that >>> that as it did and does not exist. >> >> You're probably referring to Thomas Lahn as these sources, but he'd >> never said, that JavaScript doesn't exist, but that there is neither >> javascript nor Javascript. Note the capitalization. > > ACK. However, it is *not* *just* a matter of letter case, as I have > emphasized in the “Foreword and Rationale” section of the ECMAScript Support > Matrix [1] (updated 2013-02-16). That will become more apparent later. > >> As ECMAScript is a case-sensitive language, and `JavaScript' and >> `javascript' designate different identifiers, one can easily agree with >> Thomas. > > It is not a good strategy to attempt to refute fallacies with another > fallacy. That ECMAScript as a programming language is case-sensitive has > nothing to do with “javascript” and “Javascript” being misleading terms. ACK. But at least everybody who is able to do some programming, is probably able to distinguish between the same word in different letter case. >> OTOH it's contradictory to read in this NG's FAQ: > > I am aware of that. > >> | The term "javascript" is used as a common name for all dialects of >> | ECMAScript.[1][2] >> >> [1] <http://jibbering.com/faq/#ecma> > > That resource is no longer maintained since more than two years, and it is > frequently offline. > >> [2] <http://pointedears.de/scripts/faq/cljs/#ecma> > > I am working on that. Thanks. > I fail to see how so basic an issue as the terminology for these languages, > and the FAQ of/for this newsgroup, can be off-topic here. See the new > Subject also for an example how a proper change of Subject is done on Usenet > (speakers of German may refer to the “Netiquette für "de.*"”, item 7). TIA. I didn't intend to mark the new topic OT for this NG, but rather to mark it OT for the current thread. Sorry for not observing common netiquette. Thanks for the pointer. > ________ > [1] <http://PointedEars.de/es-matrix/> > -- Christoph M. Becker
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| From | Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-10 19:39 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: "javascript" |
| Message-ID | <timstreater-A3BBAC.19394410032013@news.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #18821 |
In article <khin6c$o9v$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Christoph Becker <cmbecker69@gmx.de> wrote: > Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote: > > It is not a good strategy to attempt to refute fallacies with another > > fallacy. That ECMAScript as a programming language is case-sensitive has > > nothing to do with “javascript” and “Javascript” being misleading terms. > > ACK. But at least everybody who is able to do some programming, is > probably able to distinguish between the same word in different letter case. A baby could do it. Thomas is just being an arse. However his rude and condescending posting constitutes a more egregious fault, as many here will testify (indeed, have done so). -- Tim "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
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| From | "J.R." <groups_jr-1@yahoo.com.br> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-03 22:41 -0300 |
| Subject | Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN |
| Message-ID | <kh0u3f$9h8$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #18695 |
On 03/03/2013 16:35, Christoph Becker wrote: > Evertjan. wrote: > >>> Brendan Eich, the creator of JavaScript, >> According to sources on this NG, >> he cannot have created that >> that as it did and does not exist. > > You're probably referring to Thomas Lahn as these sources, but he'd > never said, that JavaScript doesn't exist, but that there is neither > javascript nor Javascript. Note the capitalization. > > As ECMAScript is a case-sensitive language, and `JavaScript' and > `javascript' designate different identifiers, one can easily agree with > Thomas. OTOH it's contradictory to read in this NG's FAQ: > > | The term "javascript" is used as a common name for all dialects of > | ECMAScript.[1][2] > > [1] <http://jibbering.com/faq/#ecma> > [2] <http://pointedears.de/scripts/faq/cljs/#ecma> > The JavaScript history is briefly described in the ECMA-262 3rd (1999) and 5.1 (June 2011) editions of the ECMAScript Language Specification. The JavaScript language was *invented by Brendan Eich* in a hurry (only ten days of May 1995) at Netscape and first appeared in that company‘s Navigator 2.0 browser. It has appeared in all subsequent browsers from Netscape and in all browsers from Microsoft starting with Internet Explorer 3.0. The development of the "ECMAScript language standard" started in November 1996, based on JavaScript (Netscape) and JScript (Microsoft). Interestingly, "ECMA" was an acronym for the "European Computer Manufacturers Association", but they have changed their name to "Ecma International" since 1994 without capitalization, in order to reflect the global activities of the Europe-based "Ecma" organization, now called "European association for standardizing information and communication systems". Other ECMA standards are: ECMA-334 – C# Language Specification ECMA-335 – Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) ECMA-367 – Eiffel programming language ECMA-372 – C++/CLI Language Specification ECMA-376 – Office Open XML (later known as ISO/IEC 29500) ECMA-388 – Open XML Paper Specification[13] Considering the facts above and that the name of this ng is precisely comp.lang.javascript, I wonder why some regulars in here try to impose their thinking that there is neither "JavaScript" nor "javascript". Sigh. -- Joao Rodrigues (J.R.)
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| From | "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-04 09:57 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN |
| Message-ID | <XnsA17965429B6ABeejj99@194.109.133.133> |
| In reply to | #18701 |
Joao Rodrigues wrote on 04 mrt 2013 in comp.lang.javascript: > Considering the facts above and that the name of this ng is precisely > comp.lang.javascript, I wonder why some regulars in here try to impose > their thinking that there is neither "JavaScript" nor "javascript". Sigh. While I am not one of "them", I quite enjoy such meta-discussions. I would urge you not trying to impose a restriction on thinking. -- Evertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-04 11:25 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN |
| Message-ID | <1743720.8B19WFVcsi@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #18701 |
J.R. wrote: > On 03/03/2013 16:35, Christoph Becker wrote: >> Evertjan. wrote: >>>> Brendan Eich, the creator of JavaScript, >>> According to sources on this NG, >>> he cannot have created that >>> that as it did and does not exist. >> >> You're probably referring to Thomas Lahn as these sources, but he'd >> never said, that JavaScript doesn't exist, but that there is neither >> javascript nor Javascript. Note the capitalization. >> >> As ECMAScript is a case-sensitive language, and `JavaScript' and >> `javascript' designate different identifiers, one can easily agree with >> Thomas. OTOH it's contradictory to read in this NG's FAQ: >> >> | The term "javascript" is used as a common name for all dialects of >> | ECMAScript.[1][2] >> >> [1] <http://jibbering.com/faq/#ecma> >> [2] <http://pointedears.de/scripts/faq/cljs/#ecma> > > The JavaScript history is briefly described in the ECMA-262 3rd (1999) > and 5.1 (June 2011) editions of the ECMAScript Language Specification. And if you read more carefully, you will also observe the word “JScript” there. > The JavaScript language was *invented by Brendan Eich* in a hurry […] Tell news. > Considering the facts above and that the name of this ng is precisely > comp.lang.javascript, I wonder why some regulars in here try to impose > their thinking that there is neither "JavaScript" nor "javascript". Sigh. Nobody thinks or tries to impose on others to think that there is no JavaScript. You are still missing the point. -- PointedEars Twitter: @PointedEars2 Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-04 14:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN |
| Message-ID | <H1bV7fFGVLNRFwFQ@J.A830F0FF37FB96852AD08924D9443D28E23ED5CD> |
| In reply to | #18701 |
In message <kh0u3f$9h8$1@speranza.aioe.org>, J.R. wrote: <snip> >Considering the facts above and that the name of this ng is precisely >comp.lang.javascript, I wonder why some regulars in here try to impose >their thinking that there is neither "JavaScript" nor "javascript". >Sigh. Thomas's problem is that he refuses to suggest a simple name for the collection, set, or class of all those languages derived from Netscape's LiveScript. That's 'class' in the philosophy and maths sense; and LiveScript was subsequently renamed JavaScript. He thinks that 'javascript' is not a suitable class name because it might confuse beginners. He has never produced any evidence of this. He has often criticised others for guessing without evidence. John -- John Harris
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| From | Eric Bednarz <bednarz@fahr-zur-hoelle.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-10 01:02 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN |
| Message-ID | <m2sj44ruji.fsf@nntp.bednarz.nl> |
| In reply to | #18713 |
John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> writes: > Thomas's problem is that he refuses to suggest a simple name for the > collection, set, or class of all those languages derived from Netscape's > LiveScript. That's 'class' in the philosophy and maths sense; and > LiveScript was subsequently renamed JavaScript. > > He thinks that 'javascript' is not a suitable class name because it > might confuse beginners. I don't think it might confuse beginners, and I never got the impression that Thomas thinks that, either. Personally I find it the term /javascript/i as vague and as ambiguous as it can get; one can usually resolve it in context, in my case 'javascript' often equals 'DHTML' when talking to product owners, but likely 'Rhino' or 'Spidermonkey' when talking to other developers (or something entirely different.)
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| From | John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-10 10:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN |
| Message-ID | <AAqPc7HHYGPRFwn4@J.A830F0FF37FB96852AD08924D9443D28E23ED5CD> |
| In reply to | #18795 |
In message <m2sj44ruji.fsf@nntp.bednarz.nl>, Eric Bednarz wrote: >John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> writes: > >> Thomas's problem is that he refuses to suggest a simple name for the >> collection, set, or class of all those languages derived from Netscape's >> LiveScript. That's 'class' in the philosophy and maths sense; and >> LiveScript was subsequently renamed JavaScript. >> >> He thinks that 'javascript' is not a suitable class name because it >> might confuse beginners. > >I don't think it might confuse beginners, Neither do I. Having said that, we have to recognise that some people are totally confused about everything, whatever we do to educate them. I'm thinking VK here. That's no good reason for not using a word. >and I never got the impression >that Thomas thinks that, either. Last December Thomas said : "The term is also inherently misleading, and it it is currently used misleadingly in the FAQ." so you're wrong there. >Personally I find it the term /javascript/i as vague and as ambiguous as >it can get; one can usually resolve it in context, in my case >'javascript' often equals 'DHTML' when talking to product owners, but >likely 'Rhino' or 'Spidermonkey' when talking to other developers (or >something entirely different.) So why don't you suggest an alternative term for the Topic of this news group. Hint : It must be shorter than an attribution essay, and not exclude things that are on topic, such as LiveScript. John -- John Harris
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| From | Eric Bednarz <bednarz@fahr-zur-hoelle.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-10 12:44 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN |
| Message-ID | <m2vc8zeayc.fsf@nntp.bednarz.nl> |
| In reply to | #18801 |
John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> writes: > In message <m2sj44ruji.fsf@nntp.bednarz.nl>, Eric Bednarz wrote: >>John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> writes: >>> He [Thomas] thinks that 'javascript' is not a suitable class name >>> because it might confuse beginners. >> >>I don't think it might confuse beginners, > > Neither do I. > > Having said that, we have to recognise that some people are totally > confused about everything, whatever we do to educate them. I'm thinking > VK here. OMG :-) >>and I never got the impression >>that Thomas thinks that, either. > > Last December Thomas said : > > "The term is also inherently misleading, and it it is currently used > misleadingly in the FAQ." > > so you're wrong there. I'm often wrong, but I don't see how that particularly applies to beginners. I *do* actually believe that the omnipresent umbrella term 'JavaScript' makes it harder for beginners to understand basic concepts, such as built-ins vs host objects, but I also think that it is *way* too late for linguistic semantics to the rescue. >>Personally I find it the term /javascript/i as vague and as ambiguous as >>it can get; one can usually resolve it in context, in my case >>'javascript' often equals 'DHTML' when talking to product owners, but >>likely 'Rhino' or 'Spidermonkey' when talking to other developers (or >>something entirely different.) > > So why don't you suggest an alternative term for the Topic of this news > group. See above. Although I share Thomas' concerns, I don't believe in the success of a crusade. The only context where I found quibbling about ECMAScript and DOM specifications and implementations to be constructive is a job interview. > Hint : It must be shorter than an attribution essay, I recommend reading ISO 8879:1986. After that, everything Thomas comes up with should appear zealously succinct.
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| From | John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-10 17:49 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN |
| Message-ID | <$Vfm6+FeeMPRFwAw@J.A830F0FF37FB96852AD08924D9443D28E23ED5CD> |
| In reply to | #18803 |
In message <m2vc8zeayc.fsf@nntp.bednarz.nl>, Eric Bednarz wrote: >John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> writes: <snip> >See above. Although I share Thomas' concerns, I don't believe in the >success of a crusade. The only context where I found quibbling about >ECMAScript and DOM specifications and implementations to be constructive >is a job interview. <snip> So you think there shouldn't be a name for what we talk about in this news group. Do you always think of it as 'the language group with no name' ? John -- John Harris
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| From | Eric Bednarz <bednarz@fahr-zur-hoelle.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-20 01:21 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN |
| Message-ID | <m2k3p2yl8k.fsf@nntp.bednarz.nl> |
| In reply to | #18807 |
John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> writes: > In message <m2vc8zeayc.fsf@nntp.bednarz.nl>, Eric Bednarz wrote: >>John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> writes: > > <snip> >>See above. Although I share Thomas' concerns, I don't believe in the >>success of a crusade. The only context where I found quibbling about >>ECMAScript and DOM specifications and implementations to be constructive >>is a job interview. > <snip> > > So you think there shouldn't be a name for what we talk about in this > news group. No I don't, and I don't understand what made you think that, either. > Do you always think of it as 'the language group with no name' ? Frankly, I think of it as "the language group where the elderly go before they make their final move" (I believe the polite English abbreviation for that is "irrelevant", but there's no way to be sure without a proper doctorate from an approved academical body).
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| From | John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-20 15:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN |
| Message-ID | <tfq3OYCGUdSRFw7s@J.A830F0FF37FB96852AD08924D9443D28E23ED5CD> |
| In reply to | #18951 |
In message <m2k3p2yl8k.fsf@nntp.bednarz.nl>, Eric Bednarz wrote: >John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> writes: > >> In message <m2vc8zeayc.fsf@nntp.bednarz.nl>, Eric Bednarz wrote: >>>John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> writes: >> >> <snip> >>>See above. Although I share Thomas' concerns, I don't believe in the >>>success of a crusade. The only context where I found quibbling about >>>ECMAScript and DOM specifications and implementations to be constructive >>>is a job interview. >> <snip> >> >> So you think there shouldn't be a name for what we talk about in this >> news group. > >No I don't, and I don't understand what made you think that, either. Well, you don't seem to be brave enough to suggest or endorse a name, or even a *short* description. >> Do you always think of it as 'the language group with no name' ? > >Frankly, I think of it as "the language group where the elderly go >before they make their final move" (I believe the polite English >abbreviation for that is "irrelevant", but there's no way to be sure >without a proper doctorate from an approved academical body). As Wittgenstein said : "What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence." He was a professor so his opinion has some weight. (At Cambridge, UK, no less). John -- John Harris
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| From | Eric Bednarz <bednarz@fahr-zur-hoelle.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-03-30 01:28 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: OT: "javascript" was: Why is this returning NaN |
| Message-ID | <m2txnt7mtq.fsf@nntp.bednarz.nl> |
| In reply to | #18953 |
John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> writes:
[javascript]
> Well, you don't seem to be brave enough to suggest or endorse a name, or
> even a *short* description.
If you insist; I'm rather taken to 'JehovaScript'.
> As Wittgenstein said :
^^^^
Proof?
> "What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence."
Ok, let's stop nitpicking about there-is-no-javascript.
"As some dude who translated Wittgenstein's Logisch-philosophische
Abhandlung into English once wrote..."
> He was a professor so his opinion has some weight. (At Cambridge, UK, no
> less).
To me, it's irrelevant if his opinion has some weight at Cambridge, UK.
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| From | Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-26 12:00 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <timstreater-3655E3.12001626022013@news.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #18637 |
In article <kgi46g$ivc$1@dont-email.me>, "Tony" <tony.johansson@inport.com> wrote: > var diff = Math.abs(new Date() - "2013/02/26 10:24:00"); > This should be perfect legal I believe. Hmmmm. 'new Date()' returns a reference to a Date object. What leads you to believe that you can subtract a string from a reference? Perhaps you should look up the Date object and its methods. -- Tim "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689
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| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-26 18:07 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1542531.g9YUNRc4XZ@PointedEars.de> |
| In reply to | #18641 |
Tim Streater wrote:
> "Tony" <tony.johansson@inport.com> wrote:
>> var diff = Math.abs(new Date() - "2013/02/26 10:24:00");
>> This should be perfect legal I believe.
>
> […]
> 'new Date()' returns a reference to a Date object. What leads you to
> believe that you can subtract a string from a reference?
Theoretically it could be possible. Numerous other implicit type
conversions are being performed in ECMAScript, even some where primitive
types are being converted to object types (think about
String.prototype.replace(), or subtracting references to Date instances
which eventually subtracts the same values as the return values of the
getTime() methods of the referred objects, respectively).
However, whether type conversion is possible and whether it should be
possible are two different things. In this case, a future ECMAScript
implementation could specify that subtracting *from* a primitive string in
the ISO time format defined in the current Specification (ES 5.1) a
reference to a Date instance would convert the string value into a reference
to a corresponding Date by passing it to the Date constructor, and then
proceeding as if there had been two references to Date instances in the
first place. This would be unambiguous because of the “-” operation being
performed in the context of the Date instance reference instead of the
String value:
var diffMilliseconds = "2013-02-26T10:24:00" - new Date();
instead of
var diffMilliseconds = new Date("2013-02-26T10:24:00") - new Date();
Also, one could imagine a form of semantic coding found in e.g. POSIX
date(1) and MySQL where you would write
var d2 = d + "2 days";
instead of the not inelegant, but still too complicated
/* See ES 5.1, §§ 15.9.3.2, 9.1, and 8.12.8(!) */
var d2 = new Date(d);
d2.setDate(d2.getDate() + 2);
d2
One should probably have the ability of (perhaps restricted) operator
overloading in general, then, as in Python. This would be especially useful
with user-defined objects.
--
PointedEars
Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not Cc: me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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| From | Gregor Kofler <usenet@gregorkofler.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-26 13:42 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <kgiagm$kuq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #18637 |
Am 26.02.2013 11:54, Tony meinte: > > var diff = Math.abs(new Date() - "2013/02/26 10:24:00"); > This should be perfect legal I believe. I wouldn't count on that. People have been indicted for reckless coding. I believe that you should forget about this "programming thing". As an alternative you could read the documents on MDN. In both cases this should lead to less Tony-postings in this NG.
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| From | Dr J R Stockton <reply1300@merlyn.demon.co.uk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-27 20:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <9HnZ6nGBAnLRFwQ4@invalid.uk.co.demon.merlyn.invalid> |
| In reply to | #18637 |
In comp.lang.javascript message <kgi46g$ivc$1@dont-email.me>, Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:54:12, Tony <tony.johansson@inport.com> posted: >var diff = Math.abs(new Date() - "2013/02/26 10:24:00"); >This should be perfect legal I believe. It is legal, and the result should be NaN. But getting NaN is presumably not useful to you. Even if subtraction occurred, the expression would almost certainly be rather foolish. Using Math.abs implies a belief in the possibility that either sign may occur, and the distinction between before and after is usually important. -- (c) John Stockton, nr London, UK. E-mail, see Home Page. Turnpike v6.05. Website <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/> - w. FAQish topics, links, acronyms PAS EXE etc. : <http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/programs/> - see in 00index.htm Dates - miscdate.htm estrdate.htm js-dates.htm pas-time.htm critdate.htm etc.
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| From | "Evertjan." <exxjxw.hannivoort@inter.nl.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2013-02-28 09:19 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <XnsA1755EEA790A6eejj99@194.109.133.133> |
| In reply to | #18657 |
Dr J R Stockton wrote on 27 feb 2013 in comp.lang.javascript: > It is legal, and the result should be NaN. But getting NaN is > presumably not useful to you. Indeed. Usefulness and legality often do not match. -- Evertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress)
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