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Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents?

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  Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-03 23:40 -0700
    Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 00:14 -0700
      Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 00:22 -0700
        Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 00:25 -0700
          Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 00:35 -0700
            Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 00:49 -0700
              Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 00:57 -0700
                Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 00:57 -0700
                  Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 01:38 -0700
                    Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> - 2019-06-04 15:14 -0600
                      Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 22:14 -0700
                        Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Martin Leese <please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID> - 2019-06-05 13:32 -0600
                          Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-05 13:07 -0700
          Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2019-06-04 19:09 +0100
            Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 12:10 -0700
              Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 12:44 -0700
                Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-06-05 14:19 +0200
                  Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-05 13:03 -0700
                    Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-06-06 10:26 +0200
            Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 12:24 -0700
            Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-06-05 01:21 -0700
              Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-05 02:52 -0700
            Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-06-06 07:38 -0700
      Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-06-05 14:15 +0200
    Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2019-06-04 12:50 +0200
      Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 09:14 -0700
        Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 09:27 -0700
        Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? "R.Wieser" <address@not.available> - 2019-06-04 18:52 +0200
          Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 12:35 -0700
    Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 12:51 -0700
    Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? JJ <jj4public@vfemail.net> - 2019-06-05 10:33 +0700
      Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 22:28 -0700
        Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-04 23:22 -0700
          Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-06-05 15:58 +0200
            Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-05 13:00 -0700
            Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-05 13:04 -0700
              Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-06-06 10:29 +0200
      Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2019-06-05 21:07 +0200
        Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-05 13:02 -0700
          Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-06-06 10:30 +0200
            Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-06 01:46 -0700
            Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-06 01:57 -0700
              Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-06-06 11:21 +0200
                Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-06 02:33 -0700
                  Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-06-06 13:04 +0200
                    Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-06 09:28 -0700
                      Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-06-09 14:39 +0200
                  Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? John G Harris <niam@jghnorth.org.uk.invalid> - 2019-06-06 18:45 +0100
                    Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-06 12:32 -0700
                    Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? dr.j.r.stockton@gmail.com - 2019-06-06 13:02 -0700
              Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Jonas Thörnvall <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-06 02:24 -0700
                Re: Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents? Arno Welzel <usenet@arnowelzel.de> - 2019-06-06 13:07 +0200

Page 1 of 3  [1] 2 3  Next page →

#36754 — Will there ever be a HTML tag to divide HTML documents?

Dealing with real big HTML blocks is frustrating in HTML, the only option you got is to split the document with iframe and innerHTML. And then you suddenly must hang on the origin "parent" to reach the functions you call, it add complexity when all you want to do is have neat textblocks included "frames".

I find it somehow unreasonable to add unnecessary complexity to reach local functions.

Is the HTML standard fix now, iframe was not the solution i was hoping for.It may be good for other purposes but for dividing a text into logical textblocks it is practically useless if you do not want to add overhead.

I can see many people ask for a way to just divide a text into subblocks, will it ever happen?

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#36755

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 08:40:42 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> Dealing with real big HTML blocks is frustrating in HTML, the only option you got is to split the document with iframe and innerHTML. And then you suddenly must hang on the origin "parent" to reach the functions you call, it add complexity when all you want to do is have neat textblocks included "frames".
> 
> I find it somehow unreasonable to add unnecessary complexity to reach local functions.
> 
> Is the HTML standard fix now, iframe was not the solution i was hoping for.It may be good for other purposes but for dividing a text into logical textblocks it is practically useless if you do not want to add overhead.
> 
> I can see many people ask for a way to just divide a text into subblocks, will it ever happen?
I mean for what i am thinking only local files in same folder necesary. It is a way to structure a textmass that becomes unreasonable large, and i simply refuse the use of <iframe> it is nonesense. 

<sub text="pianoframe.html">Your document goes here</sub text>

Right now my main.html is 41 KB it is insane. And i will not go back add origin on every function call back and forth, it is ludicrous, that i have to state in which document i want to reach the function.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#36757

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:15:00 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 08:40:42 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > Dealing with real big HTML blocks is frustrating in HTML, the only option you got is to split the document with iframe and innerHTML. And then you suddenly must hang on the origin "parent" to reach the functions you call, it add complexity when all you want to do is have neat textblocks included "frames".
> > 
> > I find it somehow unreasonable to add unnecessary complexity to reach local functions.
> > 
> > Is the HTML standard fix now, iframe was not the solution i was hoping for.It may be good for other purposes but for dividing a text into logical textblocks it is practically useless if you do not want to add overhead.
> > 
> > I can see many people ask for a way to just divide a text into subblocks, will it ever happen?
> I mean for what i am thinking only local files in same folder necesary. It is a way to structure a textmass that becomes unreasonable large, and i simply refuse the use of <iframe> it is nonesense. 
> 
> <sub text="pianoframe.html">Your document goes here</sub text>
> 
> Right now my main.html is 41 KB it is insane. And i will not go back add origin on every function call back and forth, it is ludicrous, that i have to state in which document i want to reach the function.


It is hard to beleive people looking for something that must been obvious/apparent in the first HTML draft ever released?

https://www.google.com/search?ei=NBv2XLSuL4GurgTokJ7gCA&q=divide+html+file+into+multiple+pages&oq=divide+html+file+into+multip&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.33i22i29i30l6.7165.16578..18826...0.0..0.204.1581.14j4j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j0i7i30j0i8i30j0i8i7i30j33i10j0i22i30.6Xi9QwOC0fs



https://www.google.com/search?ei=-hv2XLmGFoTurgTJ6I-QAw&q=divide+html+file+many+files&oq=divide+html+file+many+files&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.7522.19177..19365...0.0..0.144.868.9j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j33i22i29i30j33i160.8AqX_urQzVg

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#36758

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:23:02 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:15:00 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 08:40:42 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > Dealing with real big HTML blocks is frustrating in HTML, the only option you got is to split the document with iframe and innerHTML. And then you suddenly must hang on the origin "parent" to reach the functions you call, it add complexity when all you want to do is have neat textblocks included "frames".
> > > 
> > > I find it somehow unreasonable to add unnecessary complexity to reach local functions.
> > > 
> > > Is the HTML standard fix now, iframe was not the solution i was hoping for.It may be good for other purposes but for dividing a text into logical textblocks it is practically useless if you do not want to add overhead.
> > > 
> > > I can see many people ask for a way to just divide a text into subblocks, will it ever happen?
> > I mean for what i am thinking only local files in same folder necesary. It is a way to structure a textmass that becomes unreasonable large, and i simply refuse the use of <iframe> it is nonesense. 
> > 
> > <sub text="pianoframe.html">Your document goes here</sub text>
> > 
> > Right now my main.html is 41 KB it is insane. And i will not go back add origin on every function call back and forth, it is ludicrous, that i have to state in which document i want to reach the function.
> 
> 
> It is hard to beleive people looking for something that must been obvious/apparent in the first HTML draft ever released?
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?ei=NBv2XLSuL4GurgTokJ7gCA&q=divide+html+file+into+multiple+pages&oq=divide+html+file+into+multip&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.33i22i29i30l6.7165.16578..18826...0.0..0.204.1581.14j4j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j0i7i30j0i8i30j0i8i7i30j33i10j0i22i30.6Xi9QwOC0fs
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?ei=-hv2XLmGFoTurgTJ6I-QAw&q=divide+html+file+many+files&oq=divide+html+file+many+files&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.7522.19177..19365...0.0..0.144.868.9j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j33i22i29i30j33i160.8AqX_urQzVg

But i think this is what you get when you put datadriven people on the board to make a hypertext markup language, could you not at least **one single** context driven person used to deal with layouts?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#36759

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:25:47 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:23:02 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:15:00 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 08:40:42 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > Dealing with real big HTML blocks is frustrating in HTML, the only option you got is to split the document with iframe and innerHTML. And then you suddenly must hang on the origin "parent" to reach the functions you call, it add complexity when all you want to do is have neat textblocks included "frames".
> > > > 
> > > > I find it somehow unreasonable to add unnecessary complexity to reach local functions.
> > > > 
> > > > Is the HTML standard fix now, iframe was not the solution i was hoping for.It may be good for other purposes but for dividing a text into logical textblocks it is practically useless if you do not want to add overhead.
> > > > 
> > > > I can see many people ask for a way to just divide a text into subblocks, will it ever happen?
> > > I mean for what i am thinking only local files in same folder necesary. It is a way to structure a textmass that becomes unreasonable large, and i simply refuse the use of <iframe> it is nonesense. 
> > > 
> > > <sub text="pianoframe.html">Your document goes here</sub text>
> > > 
> > > Right now my main.html is 41 KB it is insane. And i will not go back add origin on every function call back and forth, it is ludicrous, that i have to state in which document i want to reach the function.
> > 
> > 
> > It is hard to beleive people looking for something that must been obvious/apparent in the first HTML draft ever released?
> > 
> > https://www.google.com/search?ei=NBv2XLSuL4GurgTokJ7gCA&q=divide+html+file+into+multiple+pages&oq=divide+html+file+into+multip&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.33i22i29i30l6.7165.16578..18826...0.0..0.204.1581.14j4j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j0i7i30j0i8i30j0i8i7i30j33i10j0i22i30.6Xi9QwOC0fs
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > https://www.google.com/search?ei=-hv2XLmGFoTurgTJ6I-QAw&q=divide+html+file+many+files&oq=divide+html+file+many+files&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.7522.19177..19365...0.0..0.144.868.9j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j33i22i29i30j33i160.8AqX_urQzVg
> 
> But i think this is what you get when you put datadriven people on the board to make a hypertext markup language, could you not at least **one single** context driven person used to deal with layouts?

The idiot who put frame as an outside structure of the html document, was there not a single person that reacted and said, that frames are probably subs organised and divided by structural elements like tables?

Now you have two ways of create tables you are fucking funny.

Then when people complain there is some nutjob, that comes up with a solution iframe but it is used for reach documents on cross domain servers. Well maybe it is good, but could you not solved the problem with divide a text into subblocks without assuming they rest on other servers and need a scope to reach functions having a different HTML document origin.

For fuck sake solve the problem with divide a text into simple sub text blocks first. Yeah it could be an iterative process subs in subs and all would have to access to the functions in the main HTML.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#36760

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:35:18 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:25:47 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:23:02 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:15:00 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 08:40:42 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > > Dealing with real big HTML blocks is frustrating in HTML, the only option you got is to split the document with iframe and innerHTML. And then you suddenly must hang on the origin "parent" to reach the functions you call, it add complexity when all you want to do is have neat textblocks included "frames".
> > > > > 
> > > > > I find it somehow unreasonable to add unnecessary complexity to reach local functions.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Is the HTML standard fix now, iframe was not the solution i was hoping for.It may be good for other purposes but for dividing a text into logical textblocks it is practically useless if you do not want to add overhead.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I can see many people ask for a way to just divide a text into subblocks, will it ever happen?
> > > > I mean for what i am thinking only local files in same folder necesary. It is a way to structure a textmass that becomes unreasonable large, and i simply refuse the use of <iframe> it is nonesense. 
> > > > 
> > > > <sub text="pianoframe.html">Your document goes here</sub text>
> > > > 
> > > > Right now my main.html is 41 KB it is insane. And i will not go back add origin on every function call back and forth, it is ludicrous, that i have to state in which document i want to reach the function.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > It is hard to beleive people looking for something that must been obvious/apparent in the first HTML draft ever released?
> > > 
> > > https://www.google.com/search?ei=NBv2XLSuL4GurgTokJ7gCA&q=divide+html+file+into+multiple+pages&oq=divide+html+file+into+multip&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.33i22i29i30l6.7165.16578..18826...0.0..0.204.1581.14j4j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j0i7i30j0i8i30j0i8i7i30j33i10j0i22i30.6Xi9QwOC0fs
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > https://www.google.com/search?ei=-hv2XLmGFoTurgTJ6I-QAw&q=divide+html+file+many+files&oq=divide+html+file+many+files&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.7522.19177..19365...0.0..0.144.868.9j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j33i22i29i30j33i160.8AqX_urQzVg
> > 
> > But i think this is what you get when you put datadriven people on the board to make a hypertext markup language, could you not at least **one single** context driven person used to deal with layouts?
> 
> The idiot who put frame as an outside structure of the html document, was there not a single person that reacted and said, that frames are probably subs organised and divided by structural elements like tables?
> 
> Now you have two ways of create tables you are fucking funny.
> 
> Then when people complain there is some nutjob, that comes up with a solution iframe but it is used for reach documents on cross domain servers. Well maybe it is good, but could you not solved the problem with divide a text into subblocks without assuming they rest on other servers and need a scope to reach functions having a different HTML document origin.
> 
> For fuck sake solve the problem with divide a text into simple sub text blocks first. Yeah it could be an iterative process subs in subs and all would have to access to the functions in the main HTML.

And by the way iframe seem clueless about the dimensions of its origin....

Yeah that is fucking hilarious, it seem like it is a new document altogether, not a part of a document what you want to do is to put it in a <td> </td> and have it inherit it's dimension. 

It is not even about inherit some property of the <td>, it is about reading in the parts/subs to recreate a full document from parts "and then interpretate it".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#36761

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:49:35 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:35:18 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:25:47 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:23:02 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:15:00 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 08:40:42 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > > > Dealing with real big HTML blocks is frustrating in HTML, the only option you got is to split the document with iframe and innerHTML. And then you suddenly must hang on the origin "parent" to reach the functions you call, it add complexity when all you want to do is have neat textblocks included "frames".
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I find it somehow unreasonable to add unnecessary complexity to reach local functions.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Is the HTML standard fix now, iframe was not the solution i was hoping for.It may be good for other purposes but for dividing a text into logical textblocks it is practically useless if you do not want to add overhead.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I can see many people ask for a way to just divide a text into subblocks, will it ever happen?
> > > > > I mean for what i am thinking only local files in same folder necesary. It is a way to structure a textmass that becomes unreasonable large, and i simply refuse the use of <iframe> it is nonesense. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > <sub text="pianoframe.html">Your document goes here</sub text>
> > > > > 
> > > > > Right now my main.html is 41 KB it is insane. And i will not go back add origin on every function call back and forth, it is ludicrous, that i have to state in which document i want to reach the function.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > It is hard to beleive people looking for something that must been obvious/apparent in the first HTML draft ever released?
> > > > 
> > > > https://www.google.com/search?ei=NBv2XLSuL4GurgTokJ7gCA&q=divide+html+file+into+multiple+pages&oq=divide+html+file+into+multip&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.33i22i29i30l6.7165.16578..18826...0.0..0.204.1581.14j4j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j0i7i30j0i8i30j0i8i7i30j33i10j0i22i30.6Xi9QwOC0fs
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > https://www.google.com/search?ei=-hv2XLmGFoTurgTJ6I-QAw&q=divide+html+file+many+files&oq=divide+html+file+many+files&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.7522.19177..19365...0.0..0.144.868.9j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j33i22i29i30j33i160.8AqX_urQzVg
> > > 
> > > But i think this is what you get when you put datadriven people on the board to make a hypertext markup language, could you not at least **one single** context driven person used to deal with layouts?
> > 
> > The idiot who put frame as an outside structure of the html document, was there not a single person that reacted and said, that frames are probably subs organised and divided by structural elements like tables?
> > 
> > Now you have two ways of create tables you are fucking funny.
> > 
> > Then when people complain there is some nutjob, that comes up with a solution iframe but it is used for reach documents on cross domain servers. Well maybe it is good, but could you not solved the problem with divide a text into subblocks without assuming they rest on other servers and need a scope to reach functions having a different HTML document origin.
> > 
> > For fuck sake solve the problem with divide a text into simple sub text blocks first. Yeah it could be an iterative process subs in subs and all would have to access to the functions in the main HTML.
> 
> And by the way iframe seem clueless about the dimensions of its origin....
> 
> Yeah that is fucking hilarious, it seem like it is a new document altogether, not a part of a document what you want to do is to put it in a <td> </td> and have it inherit it's dimension. 
> 
> It is not even about inherit some property of the <td>, it is about reading in the parts/subs to recreate a full document from parts "and then interpretate it".

When i think of it one realise how simple and ridiculous the problem actually is the code making up <img src=""> would done the job perectly, but instead reading in a textblock.

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#36762

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:57:11 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:49:35 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:35:18 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:25:47 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:23:02 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:15:00 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 08:40:42 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > > > > Dealing with real big HTML blocks is frustrating in HTML, the only option you got is to split the document with iframe and innerHTML. And then you suddenly must hang on the origin "parent" to reach the functions you call, it add complexity when all you want to do is have neat textblocks included "frames".
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I find it somehow unreasonable to add unnecessary complexity to reach local functions.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Is the HTML standard fix now, iframe was not the solution i was hoping for.It may be good for other purposes but for dividing a text into logical textblocks it is practically useless if you do not want to add overhead.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I can see many people ask for a way to just divide a text into subblocks, will it ever happen?
> > > > > > I mean for what i am thinking only local files in same folder necesary. It is a way to structure a textmass that becomes unreasonable large, and i simply refuse the use of <iframe> it is nonesense. 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > <sub text="pianoframe.html">Your document goes here</sub text>
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Right now my main.html is 41 KB it is insane. And i will not go back add origin on every function call back and forth, it is ludicrous, that i have to state in which document i want to reach the function.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > It is hard to beleive people looking for something that must been obvious/apparent in the first HTML draft ever released?
> > > > > 
> > > > > https://www.google.com/search?ei=NBv2XLSuL4GurgTokJ7gCA&q=divide+html+file+into+multiple+pages&oq=divide+html+file+into+multip&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.33i22i29i30l6.7165.16578..18826...0.0..0.204.1581.14j4j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j0i7i30j0i8i30j0i8i7i30j33i10j0i22i30.6Xi9QwOC0fs
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > https://www.google.com/search?ei=-hv2XLmGFoTurgTJ6I-QAw&q=divide+html+file+many+files&oq=divide+html+file+many+files&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.7522.19177..19365...0.0..0.144.868.9j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j33i22i29i30j33i160.8AqX_urQzVg
> > > > 
> > > > But i think this is what you get when you put datadriven people on the board to make a hypertext markup language, could you not at least **one single** context driven person used to deal with layouts?
> > > 
> > > The idiot who put frame as an outside structure of the html document, was there not a single person that reacted and said, that frames are probably subs organised and divided by structural elements like tables?
> > > 
> > > Now you have two ways of create tables you are fucking funny.
> > > 
> > > Then when people complain there is some nutjob, that comes up with a solution iframe but it is used for reach documents on cross domain servers. Well maybe it is good, but could you not solved the problem with divide a text into subblocks without assuming they rest on other servers and need a scope to reach functions having a different HTML document origin.
> > > 
> > > For fuck sake solve the problem with divide a text into simple sub text blocks first. Yeah it could be an iterative process subs in subs and all would have to access to the functions in the main HTML.
> > 
> > And by the way iframe seem clueless about the dimensions of its origin....
> > 
> > Yeah that is fucking hilarious, it seem like it is a new document altogether, not a part of a document what you want to do is to put it in a <td> </td> and have it inherit it's dimension. 
> > 
> > It is not even about inherit some property of the <td>, it is about reading in the parts/subs to recreate a full document from parts "and then interpretate it".
> 
> When i think of it one realise how simple and ridiculous the problem actually is the code making up <img src=""> would done the job perectly, but instead reading in a textblock.

Give me the code to read in <img src=""> and i will fix it for you.

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#36763

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:57:54 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:57:11 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:49:35 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:35:18 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:25:47 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:23:02 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:15:00 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > > > > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 08:40:42 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> > > > > > > > Dealing with real big HTML blocks is frustrating in HTML, the only option you got is to split the document with iframe and innerHTML. And then you suddenly must hang on the origin "parent" to reach the functions you call, it add complexity when all you want to do is have neat textblocks included "frames".
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I find it somehow unreasonable to add unnecessary complexity to reach local functions.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Is the HTML standard fix now, iframe was not the solution i was hoping for.It may be good for other purposes but for dividing a text into logical textblocks it is practically useless if you do not want to add overhead.
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > I can see many people ask for a way to just divide a text into subblocks, will it ever happen?
> > > > > > > I mean for what i am thinking only local files in same folder necesary. It is a way to structure a textmass that becomes unreasonable large, and i simply refuse the use of <iframe> it is nonesense. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > <sub text="pianoframe.html">Your document goes here</sub text>
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Right now my main.html is 41 KB it is insane. And i will not go back add origin on every function call back and forth, it is ludicrous, that i have to state in which document i want to reach the function.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > It is hard to beleive people looking for something that must been obvious/apparent in the first HTML draft ever released?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > https://www.google.com/search?ei=NBv2XLSuL4GurgTokJ7gCA&q=divide+html+file+into+multiple+pages&oq=divide+html+file+into+multip&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.33i22i29i30l6.7165.16578..18826...0.0..0.204.1581.14j4j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j0i7i30j0i8i30j0i8i7i30j33i10j0i22i30.6Xi9QwOC0fs
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > https://www.google.com/search?ei=-hv2XLmGFoTurgTJ6I-QAw&q=divide+html+file+many+files&oq=divide+html+file+many+files&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0i22i30.7522.19177..19365...0.0..0.144.868.9j2......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j35i39j33i22i29i30j33i160.8AqX_urQzVg
> > > > > 
> > > > > But i think this is what you get when you put datadriven people on the board to make a hypertext markup language, could you not at least **one single** context driven person used to deal with layouts?
> > > > 
> > > > The idiot who put frame as an outside structure of the html document, was there not a single person that reacted and said, that frames are probably subs organised and divided by structural elements like tables?
> > > > 
> > > > Now you have two ways of create tables you are fucking funny.
> > > > 
> > > > Then when people complain there is some nutjob, that comes up with a solution iframe but it is used for reach documents on cross domain servers. Well maybe it is good, but could you not solved the problem with divide a text into subblocks without assuming they rest on other servers and need a scope to reach functions having a different HTML document origin.
> > > > 
> > > > For fuck sake solve the problem with divide a text into simple sub text blocks first. Yeah it could be an iterative process subs in subs and all would have to access to the functions in the main HTML.
> > > 
> > > And by the way iframe seem clueless about the dimensions of its origin....
> > > 
> > > Yeah that is fucking hilarious, it seem like it is a new document altogether, not a part of a document what you want to do is to put it in a <td> </td> and have it inherit it's dimension. 
> > > 
> > > It is not even about inherit some property of the <td>, it is about reading in the parts/subs to recreate a full document from parts "and then interpretate it".
> > 
> > When i think of it one realise how simple and ridiculous the problem actually is the code making up <img src=""> would done the job perectly, but instead reading in a textblock.
> 
> Give me the code to read in <img src=""> and i will fix it for you.

For fuck sake borrow a little from PHP if you do not want to add another tag.
This problem need to be adressed before next millenia.

<?php
 
include '/home/example/public_html/header.html';
include '/home/example/public_html/body.html';
include '/home/example/public_html/footer.html';
 
?>

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#36774

Jonas Thörnvall wrote:
> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:57:54 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:57:11 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
>>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:49:35 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
>>>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:35:18 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
>>>>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:25:47 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
>>>>>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:23:02 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
>>>>>>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:15:00 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
>>>>>>>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 08:40:42 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:

Hey, a chain of nine posts consisting only
of Jonas responding to his previous post.
Stunning.

-- 
Regards,
Martin Leese
E-mail: please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/

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#36777

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 23:15:03 UTC+2 skrev Martin Leese:
> Jonas Thörnvall wrote:
> > Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:57:54 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> >> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:57:11 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> >>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:49:35 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> >>>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:35:18 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> >>>>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:25:47 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> >>>>>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:23:02 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> >>>>>>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 09:15:00 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> >>>>>>>> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 08:40:42 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> 
> Hey, a chain of nine posts consisting only
> of Jonas responding to his previous post.
> Stunning.
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> Martin Leese
> E-mail: please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID
> Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/

Thank's man i kind of felt i was, but you contributed a little to LoL

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#36789

Jonas Thörnvall wrote:

> Thank's man i kind of felt i was, but you contributed a little to LoL

Is this the sort of thing you seeking:
http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/Ambisonic/faq_section01.html

Note the navigation links to next/previous
section.  If so then this was created using
a static page generator.  There are any
number of these to choose from and, as they
produce a set of HTML pages, they place no
additional burden on the server.

HTML is a mark-up language; its purpose is
simply to specify different types of text:
headers, paragraphs, etc.  The function you
seek does not belong in HTML.

What any of this has to do with JavaScript
is beyond me.
-- 
Regards,
Martin Leese
E-mail: please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/

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#36794

Den onsdag 5 juni 2019 kl. 21:32:47 UTC+2 skrev Martin Leese:
> Jonas Thörnvall wrote:
> 
> > Thank's man i kind of felt i was, but you contributed a little to LoL
> 
> Is this the sort of thing you seeking:
> http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/Ambisonic/faq_section01.html
> 
> Note the navigation links to next/previous
> section.  If so then this was created using
> a static page generator.  There are any
> number of these to choose from and, as they
> produce a set of HTML pages, they place no
> additional burden on the server.
> 
> HTML is a mark-up language; its purpose is
> simply to specify different types of text:
> headers, paragraphs, etc.  The function you
> seek does not belong in HTML.
> 
> What any of this has to do with JavaScript
> is beyond me.
> -- 
> Regards,
> Martin Leese
> E-mail: please@see.Web.for.e-mail.INVALID
> Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/

Well as far as javascript is a language to handle HTML. Javascript would not exist without the web and HTML, at least not in its current form.

Maybe as a stringhandling tool in some obscure language....

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#36768

On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 00:25:42 -0700 (PDT), Jonas Thörnvall
<jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> wrote:

  <snip>
>But i think this is what you get when you put datadriven people on the board to make a hypertext markup language, could you not at least **one single** context driven person used to deal with layouts?

Professional web designers don't need that. They solve the same
problem by building complicated html documents in the web server,
using jsp, asp, or php.

  John

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#36769

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 20:09:17 UTC+2 skrev John G Harris:
> On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 00:25:42 -0700 (PDT), Jonas Thörnvall
> <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   <snip>
> >But i think this is what you get when you put datadriven people on the board to make a hypertext markup language, could you not at least **one single** context driven person used to deal with layouts?
> 
> Professional web designers don't need that. They solve the same
> problem by building complicated html documents in the web server,
> using jsp, asp, or php.
> 
>   John

You now what the assembler coders do not need it either, your a waste of time.
I do not need my document on a server its a standalone application on a webpage.

But it is getting big to handle i have no problem with the javascript i can simply reach them using script src you see there is logic in my choices, can't have a HTML textmass of 42 KB it is gettin hard to handle.
You people just learn howto do things no matter how weird or stupid creating overhead.... 

Like have two documents on a single HTML page talking with / adressing eachother via their document names to reach ID's and functions, while you really just want them to be separate files, basicly clueless you just go on with the madness... creating extra work for yourself because you can't see it is madness.


      <link REL="StyleSheet" TYPE="text/css" HREF="./SYNTHS/drop.css">
      <link REL="StyleSheet" TYPE="text/css" HREF="drum.css"></head>
      <script type="text/javascript" src="./SYNTHS/CSS.js"></script>
      <script type="text/javascript" src="./SYNTHS/associatestruct.js"></script>
      <script src="PortACCESS.js"></script>
      <script src="InitMAIN.js"></script>
      <script src="metronome.js"></script>
      <script src="track.js"></script>
      <script src="recordMid.js"></script>
      <script src="playUpMid.js"></script>
      <script src="UI.js"></script>
      <script src="calcTimeBar.js"></script>
      <script src="DrawALLTRACKS.js"></script>
      <script src="DrawEDIT.js"></script>
      <script src="DrawLEFTCANVAS.js"></script>
      <script src="DrawMAINPIANO.js"></script>
      <script src="drumMachine.js"></script>
      <script src="scrollBar.js"></script>
      <script src="scrollPiano.js"></script>
      <script src="downmix.js"></script>
      <script src="trackEdit.js"></script>
      <script src="mouseKeybPlay.js"></script>
      <script src="fileREADSynth.js"></script>
      <script src="loadsave.js"></script>
      <script src="synth.js"></script>
      <script src="KORGN364.js"></script>
      <script src="uiTrackChange.js"></script>
      <script src="uiSequenserControl.js"></script>
      
         <style>
         .button {
         background-color: red;
         border: none;
         color: white;
         padding: 3px 5px;
         text-align: center;
         text-decoration: none;
         display: inline-block;
         font-size: 6 px;
         font-weight: bold;
         margin: 4px 2px;
         cursor: pointer;
         border-radius: 8px;
         }
      </style>
   </head>

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#36772

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 21:10:21 UTC+2 skrev Jonas Thörnvall:
> Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 20:09:17 UTC+2 skrev John G Harris:
> > On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 00:25:42 -0700 (PDT), Jonas Thörnvall
> > <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >   <snip>
> > >But i think this is what you get when you put datadriven people on the board to make a hypertext markup language, could you not at least **one single** context driven person used to deal with layouts?
> > 
> > Professional web designers don't need that. They solve the same
> > problem by building complicated html documents in the web server,
> > using jsp, asp, or php.
> > 
> >   John
> 
> You now what the assembler coders do not need it either, your a waste of time.
> I do not need my document on a server its a standalone application on a webpage.
> 
> But it is getting big to handle i have no problem with the javascript i can simply reach them using script src you see there is logic in my choices, can't have a HTML textmass of 42 KB it is gettin hard to handle.
> You people just learn howto do things no matter how weird or stupid creating overhead.... 
> 
> Like have two documents on a single HTML page talking with / adressing eachother via their document names to reach ID's and functions, while you really just want them to be separate files, basicly clueless you just go on with the madness... creating extra work for yourself because you can't see it is madness.
> 
> 
>       <link REL="StyleSheet" TYPE="text/css" HREF="./SYNTHS/drop.css">
>       <link REL="StyleSheet" TYPE="text/css" HREF="drum.css"></head>
>       <script type="text/javascript" src="./SYNTHS/CSS.js"></script>
>       <script type="text/javascript" src="./SYNTHS/associatestruct.js"></script>
>       <script src="PortACCESS.js"></script>
>       <script src="InitMAIN.js"></script>
>       <script src="metronome.js"></script>
>       <script src="track.js"></script>
>       <script src="recordMid.js"></script>
>       <script src="playUpMid.js"></script>
>       <script src="UI.js"></script>
>       <script src="calcTimeBar.js"></script>
>       <script src="DrawALLTRACKS.js"></script>
>       <script src="DrawEDIT.js"></script>
>       <script src="DrawLEFTCANVAS.js"></script>
>       <script src="DrawMAINPIANO.js"></script>
>       <script src="drumMachine.js"></script>
>       <script src="scrollBar.js"></script>
>       <script src="scrollPiano.js"></script>
>       <script src="downmix.js"></script>
>       <script src="trackEdit.js"></script>
>       <script src="mouseKeybPlay.js"></script>
>       <script src="fileREADSynth.js"></script>
>       <script src="loadsave.js"></script>
>       <script src="synth.js"></script>
>       <script src="KORGN364.js"></script>
>       <script src="uiTrackChange.js"></script>
>       <script src="uiSequenserControl.js"></script>
>       
>          <style>
>          .button {
>          background-color: red;
>          border: none;
>          color: white;
>          padding: 3px 5px;
>          text-align: center;
>          text-decoration: none;
>          display: inline-block;
>          font-size: 6 px;
>          font-weight: bold;
>          margin: 4px 2px;
>          cursor: pointer;
>          border-radius: 8px;
>          }
>       </style>
>    </head>

Well i need it on a HTML server or downloadable as an application, what the fuck would i want with and ASP or PHP server? Maybe i need som SQL servers to, NO I DON'T NEED MORE OVERHEAD I NEED LESS.

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#36786

On 04.06.19 21:44, Jonas Thörnvall wrote:

> Well i need it on a HTML server or downloadable as an application,
> what the fuck would i want with and ASP or PHP server? Maybe i need
> som SQL servers to, NO I DON'T NEED MORE OVERHEAD I NEED LESS.

Then DO LESS.

Use tools to create the document for you.

E.g. put all JavaScript in *one* file, minify it and put that to your
document. The same with CSS. And no, this is then not the document you
*edit* but only the *result*.

Learn how to use SASS, Webpack etc..


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#36792

Den onsdag 5 juni 2019 kl. 14:19:22 UTC+2 skrev Arno Welzel:
> On 04.06.19 21:44, Jonas Thörnvall wrote:
> 
> > Well i need it on a HTML server or downloadable as an application,
> > what the fuck would i want with and ASP or PHP server? Maybe i need
> > som SQL servers to, NO I DON'T NEED MORE OVERHEAD I NEED LESS.
> 
> Then DO LESS.
> 
> Use tools to create the document for you.
> 
> E.g. put all JavaScript in *one* file, minify it and put that to your
> document. The same with CSS. And no, this is then not the document you
> *edit* but only the *result*.
> 
> Learn how to use SASS, Webpack etc..
> 
> 
> -- 
> Arno Welzel
> https://arnowelzel.de

Excuse me you are a moron...

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#36797

On 05.06.19 22:03, Jonas Thörnvall wrote:

> Den onsdag 5 juni 2019 kl. 14:19:22 UTC+2 skrev Arno Welzel:
>> On 04.06.19 21:44, Jonas Thörnvall wrote:
>>
>>> Well i need it on a HTML server or downloadable as an application,
>>> what the fuck would i want with and ASP or PHP server? Maybe i need
>>> som SQL servers to, NO I DON'T NEED MORE OVERHEAD I NEED LESS.
>>
>> Then DO LESS.
>>
>> Use tools to create the document for you.
>>
>> E.g. put all JavaScript in *one* file, minify it and put that to your
>> document. The same with CSS. And no, this is then not the document you
>> *edit* but only the *result*.
>>
>> Learn how to use SASS, Webpack etc..
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Arno Welzel
>> https://arnowelzel.de
> 
> Excuse me you are a moron...

Look into a mirror...


-- 
Arno Welzel
https://arnowelzel.de

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#36770

Den tisdag 4 juni 2019 kl. 20:09:17 UTC+2 skrev John G Harris:
> On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 00:25:42 -0700 (PDT), Jonas Thörnvall
> <jonas.thornvall@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>   <snip>
> >But i think this is what you get when you put datadriven people on the board to make a hypertext markup language, could you not at least **one single** context driven person used to deal with layouts?
> 
> Professional web designers don't need that. They solve the same
> problem by building complicated html documents in the web server,
> using jsp, asp, or php.
> 
>   John

You know it took some time for humans to go over from scrolls, to book pages....

But it can be done you know.

More amazingly you don't need to tell yourself you read same book when your switch page, ain't that amazing one would have thought that you would have to write.

parent.loadOtherFrame(nextpage);

No what the fuck you just flip it over, it is fucking magic?

window.parent.parent.frames[0].readNexPage();

No what the fuck you tell me you can just switch page to read next page?

There is something fucking weird going on here. They can read a book without adressing the parent, his aunt and his cousin it is fucking weird.....

And they can access each chapter in it, this is scary magic. 
Books are scary i better go back to my scroll. Turn scroll five knobs invoke foot shake your head. Yeah that is the way to do it.

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