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Java licensing

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  Java licensing Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> - 2018-12-13 20:48 -0500
    Re: Java licensing Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-12-13 21:05 -0500
      Re: Java licensing Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2018-12-13 21:10 -0500
        Re: Java licensing Daniele Futtorovic <da.futt.news@laposte-dot-net.invalid> - 2018-12-14 10:42 +0100
          Re: Java licensing Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2018-12-14 06:24 -0800

#38690 — Java licensing

I'm late to the party on this one but I'm hoping to catch up....

I saw messages to the effect that Java licensing is changing several 
months back when I last updated my Java 8.* JDK but hadn't taken the 
time to look into it. Tonight, I realized my version of Eclipse on this 
machine was getting pretty dated and decided to update it to Eclipse 
2018-09. When I launched the new version, it converted my workspace, as 
uual, and immediately broke all my JavaFX code. Every single JavaFX 
import was suddenly invalid. I decided to install the latest Java 10 
JDK, only to find that JDK 10 is already out of support so I found the 
current JDK for Java 11. Before downloading it, I saw the important 
notice about the licensing and finally read it.

The bit that caught my eye was that it only allowed me to write demos 
with it; I could NOT write code for my own personal use or to support a 
very low-traffic website used by a club I'm in, as I have been doing for 
a while now. Well, I suppose there *is* a way but I'm guessing it 
involves giving someone money for the privilege. The license agreement 
doesn't talk about this so my first question is: how do I get the right 
to use the code I've written for my own personal use and to support my 
club's website?

The Oracle website said another option I had was to use the Java 11 
under a GPL license, which seems like it would allow what I want to do. 
So I downloaded the Open JDK for Java 11 but I'm darned if I can figure 
out how to coax Eclipse to use it; it doesn't contain a JRE and that's 
what Eclipse wants. So, my second question is: can I get Eclipse to use 
the Open JDK and, if so, how?

-- 
Rhino

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#38691

On 12/13/2018 8:48 PM, Rhino wrote:
> I'm late to the party on this one but I'm hoping to catch up....
> 
> I saw messages to the effect that Java licensing is changing several 
> months back when I last updated my Java 8.* JDK but hadn't taken the 
> time to look into it. Tonight, I realized my version of Eclipse on this 
> machine was getting pretty dated and decided to update it to Eclipse 
> 2018-09. When I launched the new version, it converted my workspace, as 
> uual, and immediately broke all my JavaFX code. Every single JavaFX 
> import was suddenly invalid. I decided to install the latest Java 10 
> JDK, only to find that JDK 10 is already out of support so I found the 
> current JDK for Java 11. Before downloading it, I saw the important 
> notice about the licensing and finally read it.
> 
> The bit that caught my eye was that it only allowed me to write demos 
> with it; I could NOT write code for my own personal use or to support a 
> very low-traffic website used by a club I'm in, as I have been doing for 
> a while now. Well, I suppose there *is* a way but I'm guessing it 
> involves giving someone money for the privilege. The license agreement 
> doesn't talk about this so my first question is: how do I get the right 
> to use the code I've written for my own personal use and to support my 
> club's website?
> 
> The Oracle website said another option I had was to use the Java 11 
> under a GPL license, which seems like it would allow what I want to do. 
> So I downloaded the Open JDK for Java 11 but I'm darned if I can figure 
> out how to coax Eclipse to use it; it doesn't contain a JRE and that's 
> what Eclipse wants. So, my second question is: can I get Eclipse to use 
> the Open JDK and, if so, how?

re license)

Oracle Java and OpenJDK are practically the same code base.

Java <= 10 worked like:

paid Oracle Java - support almost forever
free Oracle Java - support N years
open source OpenJDK - support for N years

Java >=11 simplified that:

paid Oracle Java - support almost forever
open source OpenJDK - support for 0.5/N years

So you need to take OpenJDK if you don't want to pay.

And Eclipse works fine with OpenJDK.

re support)

Java <= 8 worked like:
* new version every 2-3 years
* all versions similar in support

Java >= 9 works like:

* new version every 6 months
* every third version is LTS (long term support)
* non-LTS versions are supported 6 months
* LTS versions are supported 3 years

If you are not interested in frequent upgrades you will
want to only take LTS versions.

So you will upgrade 8 -> 11 -> 14 -> 17 -> 20.

re JavaFX)

JavaFX status is a bit messy.

Java 6 & 7 : separate download
Java 8     : bundled with Oracle Java, no modules
Java 9, 10 : bundled with Oracle Java, modules
Java 11    : separate download

So for Java 11 you need to download JavaFX.

Link:
    https://openjfx.io/

Arne

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#38692

On 12/13/2018 9:05 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/13/2018 8:48 PM, Rhino wrote:
>> I'm late to the party on this one but I'm hoping to catch up....
>>
>> I saw messages to the effect that Java licensing is changing several 
>> months back when I last updated my Java 8.* JDK but hadn't taken the 
>> time to look into it. Tonight, I realized my version of Eclipse on 
>> this machine was getting pretty dated and decided to update it to 
>> Eclipse 2018-09. When I launched the new version, it converted my 
>> workspace, as uual, and immediately broke all my JavaFX code. Every 
>> single JavaFX import was suddenly invalid. I decided to install the 
>> latest Java 10 JDK, only to find that JDK 10 is already out of support 
>> so I found the current JDK for Java 11. Before downloading it, I saw 
>> the important notice about the licensing and finally read it.
>>
>> The bit that caught my eye was that it only allowed me to write demos 
>> with it; I could NOT write code for my own personal use or to support 
>> a very low-traffic website used by a club I'm in, as I have been doing 
>> for a while now. Well, I suppose there *is* a way but I'm guessing it 
>> involves giving someone money for the privilege. The license agreement 
>> doesn't talk about this so my first question is: how do I get the 
>> right to use the code I've written for my own personal use and to 
>> support my club's website?
>>
>> The Oracle website said another option I had was to use the Java 11 
>> under a GPL license, which seems like it would allow what I want to 
>> do. So I downloaded the Open JDK for Java 11 but I'm darned if I can 
>> figure out how to coax Eclipse to use it; it doesn't contain a JRE and 
>> that's what Eclipse wants. So, my second question is: can I get 
>> Eclipse to use the Open JDK and, if so, how?
> 
> re license)
> 
> Oracle Java and OpenJDK are practically the same code base.
> 
> Java <= 10 worked like:
> 
> paid Oracle Java - support almost forever
> free Oracle Java - support N years
> open source OpenJDK - support for N years
> 
> Java >=11 simplified that:
> 
> paid Oracle Java - support almost forever
> open source OpenJDK - support for 0.5/N years
> 
> So you need to take OpenJDK if you don't want to pay.
> 
> And Eclipse works fine with OpenJDK.
> 
> re support)
> 
> Java <= 8 worked like:
> * new version every 2-3 years
> * all versions similar in support
> 
> Java >= 9 works like:
> 
> * new version every 6 months
> * every third version is LTS (long term support)
> * non-LTS versions are supported 6 months
> * LTS versions are supported 3 years
> 
> If you are not interested in frequent upgrades you will
> want to only take LTS versions.
> 
> So you will upgrade 8 -> 11 -> 14 -> 17 -> 20.
> 
> re JavaFX)
> 
> JavaFX status is a bit messy.
> 
> Java 6 & 7 : separate download
> Java 8     : bundled with Oracle Java, no modules
> Java 9, 10 : bundled with Oracle Java, modules
> Java 11    : separate download
> 
> So for Java 11 you need to download JavaFX.
> 
> Link:
>     https://openjfx.io/

Just one more note.

OpenJDK is available under "GPL with classpath exception" not "GPL".

It makes a difference.

Arne

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#38693

On 2018-12-14 03:10, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/13/2018 9:05 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/13/2018 8:48 PM, Rhino wrote:
>>> I'm late to the party on this one but I'm hoping to catch up....
>>>
>>> I saw messages to the effect that Java licensing is changing several
>>> months back when I last updated my Java 8.* JDK but hadn't taken the
>>> time to look into it. Tonight, I realized my version of Eclipse on
>>> this machine was getting pretty dated and decided to update it to
>>> Eclipse 2018-09. When I launched the new version, it converted my
>>> workspace, as uual, and immediately broke all my JavaFX code. Every
>>> single JavaFX import was suddenly invalid. I decided to install the
>>> latest Java 10 JDK, only to find that JDK 10 is already out of
>>> support so I found the current JDK for Java 11. Before downloading
>>> it, I saw the important notice about the licensing and finally read it.
>>>
>>> The bit that caught my eye was that it only allowed me to write demos
>>> with it; I could NOT write code for my own personal use or to support
>>> a very low-traffic website used by a club I'm in, as I have been
>>> doing for a while now. Well, I suppose there *is* a way but I'm
>>> guessing it involves giving someone money for the privilege. The
>>> license agreement doesn't talk about this so my first question is:
>>> how do I get the right to use the code I've written for my own
>>> personal use and to support my club's website?
>>>
>>> The Oracle website said another option I had was to use the Java 11
>>> under a GPL license, which seems like it would allow what I want to
>>> do. So I downloaded the Open JDK for Java 11 but I'm darned if I can
>>> figure out how to coax Eclipse to use it; it doesn't contain a JRE
>>> and that's what Eclipse wants. So, my second question is: can I get
>>> Eclipse to use the Open JDK and, if so, how?
>>
>> re license)
>>
>> Oracle Java and OpenJDK are practically the same code base.
>>
>> Java <= 10 worked like:
>>
>> paid Oracle Java - support almost forever
>> free Oracle Java - support N years
>> open source OpenJDK - support for N years
>>
>> Java >=11 simplified that:
>>
>> paid Oracle Java - support almost forever
>> open source OpenJDK - support for 0.5/N years
>>
>> So you need to take OpenJDK if you don't want to pay.
>>
>> And Eclipse works fine with OpenJDK.
>>
>> re support)
>>
>> Java <= 8 worked like:
>> * new version every 2-3 years
>> * all versions similar in support
>>
>> Java >= 9 works like:
>>
>> * new version every 6 months
>> * every third version is LTS (long term support)
>> * non-LTS versions are supported 6 months
>> * LTS versions are supported 3 years
>>
>> If you are not interested in frequent upgrades you will
>> want to only take LTS versions.
>>
>> So you will upgrade 8 -> 11 -> 14 -> 17 -> 20.
>>
>> re JavaFX)
>>
>> JavaFX status is a bit messy.
>>
>> Java 6 & 7 : separate download
>> Java 8     : bundled with Oracle Java, no modules
>> Java 9, 10 : bundled with Oracle Java, modules
>> Java 11    : separate download
>>
>> So for Java 11 you need to download JavaFX.
>>
>> Link:
>>     https://openjfx.io/
> 
> Just one more note.
> 
> OpenJDK is available under "GPL with classpath exception" not "GPL".
> 
> It makes a difference.
> 
> Arne

> So I downloaded the Open JDK for Java 11 but I'm darned if I can figure out how to coax Eclipse to use it; it doesn't contain a JRE and that's what Eclipse wants. So, my second question is: can I get Eclipse to use the Open JDK and, if so, how? 

In addition to what Arne said, it was somewhere between Java 8
(exclusive) and Java 11 that they've restructured the JDK. There isn't a
separate JRE folder anymore (with its own binaries). I assume Eclipse
should be able to handle that - I don't know, I don't use it. But it's
as designed.

They're also pushing devs to bundle the dependencies in the apps
themselves with jlink:
<https://docs.oracle.com/javase/9/tools/jlink.htm>. Not that you
strictly need to, as far as I can tell, if you have the JDK installed.
But you'll notice there's no separate JRE download for Java 9+.

-- 
DF.

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#38694

On Friday, December 14, 2018 at 4:42:55 AM UTC-5, Daniele Futtorovic wrote:
> On 2018-12-14 03:10, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> > On 12/13/2018 9:05 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> >> On 12/13/2018 8:48 PM, Rhino wrote:
> >>> I'm late to the party on this one but I'm hoping to catch up....
> >>>
> >>> I saw messages to the effect that Java licensing is changing several
> >>> months back when I last updated my Java 8.* JDK but hadn't taken the
> >>> time to look into it. Tonight, I realized my version of Eclipse on
> >>> this machine was getting pretty dated and decided to update it to
> >>> Eclipse 2018-09. When I launched the new version, it converted my
> >>> workspace, as uual, and immediately broke all my JavaFX code. Every
> >>> single JavaFX import was suddenly invalid. I decided to install the
> >>> latest Java 10 JDK, only to find that JDK 10 is already out of
> >>> support so I found the current JDK for Java 11. Before downloading
> >>> it, I saw the important notice about the licensing and finally read it.
> >>>
> >>> The bit that caught my eye was that it only allowed me to write demos
> >>> with it; I could NOT write code for my own personal use or to support
> >>> a very low-traffic website used by a club I'm in, as I have been
> >>> doing for a while now. Well, I suppose there *is* a way but I'm
> >>> guessing it involves giving someone money for the privilege. The
> >>> license agreement doesn't talk about this so my first question is:
> >>> how do I get the right to use the code I've written for my own
> >>> personal use and to support my club's website?
> >>>
> >>> The Oracle website said another option I had was to use the Java 11
> >>> under a GPL license, which seems like it would allow what I want to
> >>> do. So I downloaded the Open JDK for Java 11 but I'm darned if I can
> >>> figure out how to coax Eclipse to use it; it doesn't contain a JRE
> >>> and that's what Eclipse wants. So, my second question is: can I get
> >>> Eclipse to use the Open JDK and, if so, how?
> >>
> >> re license)
> >>
> >> Oracle Java and OpenJDK are practically the same code base.
> >>
> >> Java <= 10 worked like:
> >>
> >> paid Oracle Java - support almost forever
> >> free Oracle Java - support N years
> >> open source OpenJDK - support for N years
> >>
> >> Java >=11 simplified that:
> >>
> >> paid Oracle Java - support almost forever
> >> open source OpenJDK - support for 0.5/N years
> >>
> >> So you need to take OpenJDK if you don't want to pay.
> >>
> >> And Eclipse works fine with OpenJDK.
> >>
> >> re support)
> >>
> >> Java <= 8 worked like:
> >> * new version every 2-3 years
> >> * all versions similar in support
> >>
> >> Java >= 9 works like:
> >>
> >> * new version every 6 months
> >> * every third version is LTS (long term support)
> >> * non-LTS versions are supported 6 months
> >> * LTS versions are supported 3 years
> >>
> >> If you are not interested in frequent upgrades you will
> >> want to only take LTS versions.
> >>
> >> So you will upgrade 8 -> 11 -> 14 -> 17 -> 20.
> >>
> >> re JavaFX)
> >>
> >> JavaFX status is a bit messy.
> >>
> >> Java 6 & 7 : separate download
> >> Java 8     : bundled with Oracle Java, no modules
> >> Java 9, 10 : bundled with Oracle Java, modules
> >> Java 11    : separate download
> >>
> >> So for Java 11 you need to download JavaFX.
> >>
> >> Link:
> >>     https://openjfx.io/
> > 
> > Just one more note.
> > 
> > OpenJDK is available under "GPL with classpath exception" not "GPL".
> > 
> > It makes a difference.
> > 
> > Arne
> 
> > So I downloaded the Open JDK for Java 11 but I'm darned if I can figure out how to coax Eclipse to use it; it doesn't contain a JRE and that's what Eclipse wants. So, my second question is: can I get Eclipse to use the Open JDK and, if so, how? 
> 
> In addition to what Arne said, it was somewhere between Java 8
> (exclusive) and Java 11 that they've restructured the JDK. There isn't a
> separate JRE folder anymore (with its own binaries). I assume Eclipse
> should be able to handle that - I don't know, I don't use it. But it's
> as designed.
> 
> They're also pushing devs to bundle the dependencies in the apps
> themselves with jlink:
> <https://docs.oracle.com/javase/9/tools/jlink.htm>. Not that you
> strictly need to, as far as I can tell, if you have the JDK installed.
> But you'll notice there's no separate JRE download for Java 9+.
> 
> -- 
> DF.

I'm still using Java 8 with Eclipse Photon.  Java 8 is still free from Oracle and at least includes security updates for a couple months yet.
I tried compiling my Java 8 project with Java 9 last year with Eclipse Oxygen and it just whined that my classpath had the same class name in multiple packages.  I'm not looking forward to using newer Java but hopefully testing 11 goes smoother.

Java 8 will work free forever, they'll just stop updating it, which may not be a problem for an application on a local network.  If you're running something over the internet you may have to get updates only available in a newer version at some point.

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