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Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting?

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  Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? galt_57@hotmail.com - 2016-12-27 19:45 -0800
    Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-12-28 12:26 +0000
      Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-12-28 06:15 -0800
        Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-12-28 20:57 -0500
          Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-12-29 12:30 +0000
        Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-12-28 19:29 +0000
      Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Davej <galt_57@hotmail.com> - 2016-12-28 09:15 -0800
        Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-12-28 20:52 -0500
        Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-28 16:36 -0500
          Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-12-28 13:52 -0800
            Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? galt_57@hotmail.com - 2016-12-29 10:43 -0800
              Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-12-29 19:32 -0500
                Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-12-30 12:24 +0000
                  Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-12-30 20:39 -0500
              Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-12-29 20:37 +0000
            Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-12-28 23:50 +0000
        Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-12-28 13:39 -0800
        Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-12-28 21:18 +0000
        Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-12-28 19:52 +0000
          Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? galt_57@hotmail.com - 2016-12-28 12:30 -0800
    Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-12-28 11:34 -0500
      Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? galt_57@hotmail.com - 2016-12-28 10:44 -0800
        Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-12-28 20:47 -0500
          Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-29 17:55 -0500
            Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? galt_57@hotmail.com - 2016-12-31 12:16 -0800
              Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2016-12-31 18:34 -0500
              Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-12-31 19:40 -0500
              Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Nigel Wade <nmw@local.domain> - 2017-01-03 10:36 +0000
          Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-12-29 19:40 -0500
            Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-12-29 21:21 -0500
          Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? galt_57@hotmail.com - 2016-12-29 10:52 -0800
    Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Roedy Green <inquiry@mindprod.com> - 2017-01-05 21:49 -0800
    Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? matthew.townsend@gmail.com - 2017-01-13 14:24 -0800
      Re: Inexpensive JSP/Servlet hosting? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2017-01-13 19:53 -0500

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#36132

On 12/27/2016 10:45 PM, galt_57@hotmail.com wrote:
> What are the lowest cost known-functional hosting services where
> a student might build a small Java-based website? I see that I
> can get a cheap VPS but it only offers a small amount of ram.

Google App Engine would be obvious in my opinion.

You can start for free and then pay for actual usage and scale up
if needed.

Arne

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#36134

On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 10:34:34 AM UTC-6, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/27/2016 10:45 PM, Davej wrote:
> > What are the lowest cost known-functional hosting services where
> > a student might build a small Java-based website? I see that I
> > can get a cheap VPS but it only offers a small amount of ram.
> 
> Google App Engine would be obvious in my opinion.
> 
> You can start for free and then pay for actual usage and scale 
> up if needed.
> 
> Arne

Sounds interesting, but to a beginner the financial risk of 
demand-based billing is scary and undesirable. The only time 
I would see demand would be if the account was hacked or 
attacked. Also the database seems rather crippled based on 
what is said here...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_App_Engine

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#36139

On 12/28/2016 1:44 PM, galt_57@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 10:34:34 AM UTC-6, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/27/2016 10:45 PM, Davej wrote:
>>> What are the lowest cost known-functional hosting services where
>>> a student might build a small Java-based website? I see that I
>>> can get a cheap VPS but it only offers a small amount of ram.
>>
>> Google App Engine would be obvious in my opinion.
>>
>> You can start for free and then pay for actual usage and scale
>> up if needed.
>
> Sounds interesting, but to a beginner the financial risk of
> demand-based billing is scary and undesirable. The only time
> I would see demand would be if the account was hacked or
> attacked.

You can do a lot with the free quota. For just learning it should
be more than enough.

And even if you start paying then it is not expensive.

>            Also the database seems rather crippled based on
> what is said here...
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_App_Engine

For free you can use JPA.

And in my opinion JPA would be rather obvious for learning.

If you pay, then you can get a relational database (MySQL).
And again it is not that expensive.

https://cloud.google.com/sql/

Arne

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#36146

On 12/29/2016 1:52 PM, galt_57@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 7:47:35 PM UTC-6, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/28/2016 1:44 PM, Davej wrote:
>>> On December 28, 2016, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 12/27/2016 10:45 PM, Davej wrote:
>>>>> What are the lowest cost known-functional hosting services where
>>>>> a student might build a small Java-based website? I see that I
>>>>> can get a cheap VPS but it only offers a small amount of ram.
>>>>
>>>> Google App Engine would be obvious in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>> You can start for free and then pay for actual usage and 
>>>> scale up if needed.
>>>
>>> Sounds interesting, but to a beginner the financial risk of
>>> demand-based billing is scary and undesirable. The only time
>>> I would see demand would be if the account was hacked or
>>> attacked.
>>
>> You can do a lot with the free quota. For just learning it should
>> be more than enough.
>>
>> And even if you start paying then it is not expensive.
>>
>>> Also the database seems rather crippled based on
>>> what is said here...
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_App_Engine
>>
>> For free you can use JPA.
>>
>> And in my opinion JPA would be rather obvious for learning.
>>
>> If you pay, then you can get a relational database (MySQL).
>> And again it is not that expensive.
>>
>> https://cloud.google.com/sql/
>>
>> Arne
> 
> Okay, I'll give it a try. VPS is too expensive if 4GB+ of 
> RAM is necessary... approximately 10X compared to what I am 
> used to paying for shared Php/.NET hosting.
> 

You're not going to find much for cheap Java hosting.  PHP/.NET hosting
is cheap because there is a huge supply.  Java not so much.

I have VSPs - cost is less than $20/mo.  Not as cheap as shared hosting
- but I have complete control and can do anything I want (within reason,
anyway).

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#36157

On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 4:55:35 PM UTC-6, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
> On 12/29/2016 1:52 PM, Davej wrote:
> > 
> > Okay, I'll give it a try. VPS is too expensive if 4GB+ of 
> > RAM is necessary... approximately 10X compared to what I am 
> > used to paying for shared Php/.NET hosting.
> > 
> 
> You're not going to find much for cheap Java hosting.  PHP/.NET
> hosting is cheap because there is a huge supply.  Java not so
> much.
> 
> I have VSPs - cost is less than $20/mo.  Not as cheap as shared
> hosting - but I have complete control and can do anything I want
> (within reason, anyway).


It seems misleading to see the cheap VPS offerings. Do you agree 
with the need for 4GB+ RAM to run Tomcat/MySQL? I am curious about 
the complications of getting a JSP/servlet website running on a VPS.

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#36158

On 12/31/2016 3:16 PM, galt_57@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 4:55:35 PM UTC-6, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 12/29/2016 1:52 PM, Davej wrote:
>>>
>>> Okay, I'll give it a try. VPS is too expensive if 4GB+ of 
>>> RAM is necessary... approximately 10X compared to what I am 
>>> used to paying for shared Php/.NET hosting.
>>>
>>
>> You're not going to find much for cheap Java hosting.  PHP/.NET
>> hosting is cheap because there is a huge supply.  Java not so
>> much.
>>
>> I have VSPs - cost is less than $20/mo.  Not as cheap as shared
>> hosting - but I have complete control and can do anything I want
>> (within reason, anyway).
> 
> 
> It seems misleading to see the cheap VPS offerings. Do you agree 
> with the need for 4GB+ RAM to run Tomcat/MySQL? I am curious about 
> the complications of getting a JSP/servlet website running on a VPS.
> 

I don't think 4G is really necessary for what you're looking at.  I've
run similar in as little as 512 MB before.  Not very fast and a lot of
paging, but it worked for a quick test.

I would think 1G would be plenty for you.  You're only looking at small
java programs, so you don't really need a lot of cache space.  You'll
also want to limit the amount of storage used by MySQL.

But even 4GB can be had for around $20/mo.  2GB about 1/2 that.


-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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#36159

On 12/31/2016 3:16 PM, galt_57@hotmail.com wrote:
> It seems misleading to see the cheap VPS offerings. Do you agree
> with the need for 4GB+ RAM to run Tomcat/MySQL? I am curious about
> the complications of getting a JSP/servlet website running on a VPS.

Getting a servlet container running on VPS requires about the same
effort as getting it to run on your development machine. So that is
easy to estimate.

Applications can often "run" with very little memory. But then it
is "run" not run.

You can do the math.

Centos 7 : CentOS recommendation is 1 GB per VCPU
Java 8 + Tomcat 8 heap aka Xmx : somewhere 0.5-2 GB
Java 8 besides heap : 0.1+ GB
MySQL 5.x buffers : 0.1-1 GB depending on config
MySQL 5.x besides buffers : 0.1+ GB

2 GB will be tight. Next step is 4 GB.

Another way of looking at it is: how much memory do you have
in your development system.

Arne

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#36160

On 31/12/16 20:16, galt_57@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, December 29, 2016 at 4:55:35 PM UTC-6, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
>> On 12/29/2016 1:52 PM, Davej wrote:
>>>
>>> Okay, I'll give it a try. VPS is too expensive if 4GB+ of
>>> RAM is necessary... approximately 10X compared to what I am
>>> used to paying for shared Php/.NET hosting.
>>>
>>
>> You're not going to find much for cheap Java hosting.  PHP/.NET
>> hosting is cheap because there is a huge supply.  Java not so
>> much.
>>
>> I have VSPs - cost is less than $20/mo.  Not as cheap as shared
>> hosting - but I have complete control and can do anything I want
>> (within reason, anyway).
>
>
> It seems misleading to see the cheap VPS offerings. Do you agree
> with the need for 4GB+ RAM to run Tomcat/MySQL? I am curious about
> the complications of getting a JSP/servlet website running on a VPS.
>

Our website runs in a VM with 2 virtual CPU and 2GB RAM + 1.5GB swap.
It runs Apache, Tomcat and MySQL.

What you need will depend on what you actually do with Apache, Tomcat and MySQL.
Our use of MySQL is almost non-existent. It contains a very rarely accessed database.

Apache serves pages to whoever asks for them, but it's a low volume site. I don't bother with stats.

Tomcat is used to serve real-time radar data to a JNLP based Java client. Besides Tomcat there are 4 Java server processes running 24/7 collecting RT data from our radars, and collating and caching the data which is accessed by the Tomcat servlet. Here, we operate a RT display computer 24/7 which runs the JNLP client and accesses the RT data from the Tomcat server. Other remote sites may access the RT data feed as they wish.

The problem is that YMMV. Or, it almost certainly will vary. Your usage and requirements of each sub-system are going to be different from ours.

I'd suggest your best alternative is to create your own deployment system, or VM on a system with sufficient resources, install your deployment software and see how it works.
Check the system CPU and VM usage, disk I/O, network I/O etc.

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#36150

On 12/29/2016 1:52 PM, galt_57@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 7:47:35 PM UTC-6, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 12/28/2016 1:44 PM, Davej wrote:
>>> On December 28, 2016, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 12/27/2016 10:45 PM, Davej wrote:
>>>>> What are the lowest cost known-functional hosting services where
>>>>> a student might build a small Java-based website? I see that I
>>>>> can get a cheap VPS but it only offers a small amount of ram.
>>>>
>>>> Google App Engine would be obvious in my opinion.
>>>>
>>>> You can start for free and then pay for actual usage and
>>>> scale up if needed.
>>>
>>> Sounds interesting, but to a beginner the financial risk of
>>> demand-based billing is scary and undesirable. The only time
>>> I would see demand would be if the account was hacked or
>>> attacked.
>>
>> You can do a lot with the free quota. For just learning it should
>> be more than enough.
>>
>> And even if you start paying then it is not expensive.
>>
>>> Also the database seems rather crippled based on
>>> what is said here...
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_App_Engine
>>
>> For free you can use JPA.
>>
>> And in my opinion JPA would be rather obvious for learning.
>>
>> If you pay, then you can get a relational database (MySQL).
>> And again it is not that expensive.
>>
>> https://cloud.google.com/sql/
>
> Okay, I'll give it a try.

That is one of the good things about free. You can always try
it and you just hate it, then you just move on to something
else with little loss.

>                           VPS is too expensive if 4GB+ of
> RAM is necessary... approximately 10X compared to what I am
> used to paying for shared Php/.NET hosting.

Java EE likes memory.

But ASP.NET can also use some memory.

Arne

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#36153

On 12/29/2016 7:40 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/29/2016 1:52 PM, galt_57@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 7:47:35 PM UTC-6, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 12/28/2016 1:44 PM, Davej wrote:
>>>> Also the database seems rather crippled based on
>>>> what is said here...
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_App_Engine
>>>
>>> For free you can use JPA.
>>>
>>> And in my opinion JPA would be rather obvious for learning.
>>>
>>> If you pay, then you can get a relational database (MySQL).
>>> And again it is not that expensive.
>>>
>>> https://cloud.google.com/sql/
>>
>> Okay, I'll give it a try.
>
> That is one of the good things about free. You can always try
> it and you just hate it, then you just move on to something
> else with little loss.
>
>>                           VPS is too expensive if 4GB+ of
>> RAM is necessary... approximately 10X compared to what I am
>> used to paying for shared Php/.NET hosting.
>
> Java EE likes memory.

Alternatively if you want to setup your own VM then you
could try AWS.

Same model - very basic stuff is free - you pay by usage
for more serious stuff.

Paying is probably close to traditional VPS *if* run
365x24. But with AWS you can just bring it down when
you don't want to play with it and the cost stops
immediatetly.

Arne

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#36151

On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 7:47:35 PM UTC-6, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 12/28/2016 1:44 PM, Davej wrote:
> > On December 28, 2016, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> >> On 12/27/2016 10:45 PM, Davej wrote:
> >>> What are the lowest cost known-functional hosting services where
> >>> a student might build a small Java-based website? I see that I
> >>> can get a cheap VPS but it only offers a small amount of ram.
> >>
> >> Google App Engine would be obvious in my opinion.
> >>
> >> You can start for free and then pay for actual usage and 
> >> scale up if needed.
> >
> > Sounds interesting, but to a beginner the financial risk of
> > demand-based billing is scary and undesirable. The only time
> > I would see demand would be if the account was hacked or
> > attacked.
> 
> You can do a lot with the free quota. For just learning it should
> be more than enough.
> 
> And even if you start paying then it is not expensive.
> 
> > Also the database seems rather crippled based on
> > what is said here...
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_App_Engine
> 
> For free you can use JPA.
> 
> And in my opinion JPA would be rather obvious for learning.
> 
> If you pay, then you can get a relational database (MySQL).
> And again it is not that expensive.
> 
> https://cloud.google.com/sql/
> 
> Arne

Okay, I'll give it a try. VPS is too expensive if 4GB+ of 
RAM is necessary... approximately 10X compared to what I am 
used to paying for shared Php/.NET hosting.

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#36161

On Tue, 27 Dec 2016 19:45:03 -0800 (PST), galt_57@hotmail.com wrote:

>What are the lowest cost known-functional hosting services where 
>a student might build a small Java-based website? I see that I 
>can get a cheap VPS but it only offers a small amount of ram.

see http://mindprod.com/jgloss/ispvendors.html

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#36187

On Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 7:45:21 PM UTC-8, Davej wrote:
> What are the lowest cost known-functional hosting services where 
> a student might build a small Java-based website? I see that I 
> can get a cheap VPS but it only offers a small amount of ram.
> 
> Thanks

For something like that, I use Google App Engine. For low loads, it's free.

Here's a most simple example:
https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/java-docs-samples/tree/master/appengine/helloworld

At work we've got an old git repository that can post JSON to a URL whenever people open/close merge requests. I set up a little web service in app engine that basically translates and forwards the messages to the Slack API so they'll show up in a room the team is in.

The webapp you're running has to be purely event-based (no long running background threads). I persist a little bit of information in their key-value store (to prevent duplicate messages being forwarded).

I'm pretty sure the load of my little service is an order of magnitude lower than it would need to be to start requiring that I pay for hosting costs.

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#36189

On 1/13/2017 5:24 PM, matthew.townsend@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 27, 2016 at 7:45:21 PM UTC-8, Davej wrote:
>> What are the lowest cost known-functional hosting services where a
>> student might build a small Java-based website? I see that I can
>> get a cheap VPS but it only offers a small amount of ram.

> For something like that, I use Google App Engine. For low loads,
> it's free.

> The webapp you're running has to be purely event-based (no long
> running background threads).

User started threads in web containers are rather bad
design anyway.

There are plenty of possibilities for doing that sort of tasks
over in the EJB container (well - then GAE is not an
option, but ...).

Arne

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