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XQuery with Java resources

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  XQuery with Java resources Priya Mohan <mmpriya66@gmail.com> - 2016-04-30 08:28 -0700
    Re: XQuery with Java resources Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2016-05-01 00:01 +0000
      Re: XQuery with Java resources Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2016-05-01 19:50 +0000
      Re: XQuery with Java resources Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2016-05-02 22:44 +0000
        Re: XQuery with Java resources Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-05-04 08:42 -0400
          Re: XQuery with Java resources Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2016-05-04 14:16 +0000
            Re: XQuery with Java resources Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-04 07:31 -0700
              Re: XQuery with Java resources Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2016-05-04 17:34 +0000
              Re: XQuery with Java resources Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-05-04 20:05 -0400
                Re: XQuery with Java resources Eric Douglas <e.d.programmer@gmail.com> - 2016-05-05 06:06 -0700
                  Re: XQuery with Java resources Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-05-05 10:47 -0400
            Re: XQuery with Java resources Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2016-05-04 20:01 -0400
              Re: XQuery with Java resources Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2016-05-05 21:08 +0000
            Re: XQuery with Java resources Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2016-05-05 10:50 +0000

#34226 — XQuery with Java resources

Hi - I am looking to learn the XQuery with Java. Could you please direct me to any beginner books and good tutorials for me to start learning and get the concepts as quickly as possible. 

Thanks for the help

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#34228

On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 08:28:00 -0700, Priya Mohan wrote:

> Hi - I am looking to learn the XQuery with Java. Could you please direct me to any beginner books and good tutorials for me to start learning and get the concepts as quickly as possible. 
> 
> Thanks for the help

Likely, the easiest path would be to grab a copy of 
SAXON The XSLT and XQuery Processor
<http://saxon.sourceforge.net/> and start playing.

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#34229

On Sun, 01 May 2016 00:01:13 +0000, Jeff Higgins wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 08:28:00 -0700, Priya Mohan wrote:
> 
>> Hi - I am looking to learn the XQuery with Java. Could you please direct me to any beginner books and good tutorials for me to start learning and get the concepts as quickly as possible. 
>> 
>> Thanks for the help
> 
> Likely, the easiest path would be to grab a copy of 
> SAXON The XSLT and XQuery Processor
> <http://saxon.sourceforge.net/> and start playing.

For the XQuery language I found the first edition of
XQuery by Priscilla Walmsley most excellent. There is now
a 2nd edition. You can look through it here:
<https://library.oreilly.com/book/0636920035589/xquery-2nd-edition/toc>

The SAXON XQuery software has available much good demo,sample and
tutorial material available. Other XQuery processors usable from Java
are available. A few minuets searching the web should bring more than
you need.
 

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#34232

On Sun, 01 May 2016 00:01:13 +0000, Jeff Higgins wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 08:28:00 -0700, Priya Mohan wrote:
> 
>> Hi - I am looking to learn the XQuery with Java. Could you please direct me to any beginner books and good tutorials for me to start learning and get the concepts as quickly as possible. 
>> 
>> Thanks for the help
> 
> Likely, the easiest path would be to grab a copy of 
> SAXON The XSLT and XQuery Processor
> <http://saxon.sourceforge.net/> and start playing.

Another option. Away from the metal, but maybe what you are looking for.
Easy to get started with, just download the installer and run. Everything you
need to get started is in there. Lots of demos and tutorials.

eXistdb
<http://exist-db.org/exist/apps/homepage/index.html>

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#34245

On 5/2/2016 6:44 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> On Sun, 01 May 2016 00:01:13 +0000, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 08:28:00 -0700, Priya Mohan wrote:
>>> Hi - I am looking to learn the XQuery with Java. Could you please direct me to
 >>> any beginner books and good tutorials for me to start learning and 
get the
 >>> concepts as quickly as possible.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the help
>>
>> Likely, the easiest path would be to grab a copy of
>> SAXON The XSLT and XQuery Processor
>> <http://saxon.sourceforge.net/> and start playing.
>
> Another option. Away from the metal, but maybe what you are looking for.
> Easy to get started with, just download the installer and run. Everything you
> need to get started is in there. Lots of demos and tutorials.
>
> eXistdb
> <http://exist-db.org/exist/apps/homepage/index.html>

And that product was very hot 10 years ago.

:-)

Arne

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#34246

On Wed, 04 May 2016 08:42:50 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> On 5/2/2016 6:44 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> On Sun, 01 May 2016 00:01:13 +0000, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 08:28:00 -0700, Priya Mohan wrote:
>>>> Hi - I am looking to learn the XQuery with Java. Could you please direct me to
>  >>> any beginner books and good tutorials for me to start learning and 
> get the
>  >>> concepts as quickly as possible.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the help
>>>
>>> Likely, the easiest path would be to grab a copy of
>>> SAXON The XSLT and XQuery Processor
>>> <http://saxon.sourceforge.net/> and start playing.
>>
>> Another option. Away from the metal, but maybe what you are looking for.
>> Easy to get started with, just download the installer and run. Everything you
>> need to get started is in there. Lots of demos and tutorials.
>>
>> eXistdb
>> <http://exist-db.org/exist/apps/homepage/index.html>
> 
> And that product was very hot 10 years ago.
> 
> :-)
> 
Some years ago I had an occasion to look into XML databases. At that time I
fashioned up some stuff with Berkeley DB. It was a good bit of work and after
some time I simply lost interest. Recently I have been thinking again about
XML databases in connection with a sort of CMS system that I'm envisioning.
This post prompted me to have a look about and I came across eXist-db. I've 
installed it had a pretty good look at the documentation and done some playing.
It looks like it could handle a lot of what I have in mind. If you're familiar
with Distributed Proofreaders what I have in mind is similar.

I haven't spent a great amount of time researching yet so your post prompts me
to ask. If eXistdb was a hot product 10 years ago and is apparently still
undergoing maintenance and upgrading that would seem to indicate a pretty well
used product. Is there something out there that has overtaken it? Are XML
databases passé? I'm afraid I don't know the space well, so any hints or some
more words on the subject would be much appreciated.

 

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#34247

On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 10:20:06 AM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> Some years ago I had an occasion to look into XML databases. At that time I
> fashioned up some stuff with Berkeley DB. It was a good bit of work and after
> some time I simply lost interest. Recently I have been thinking again about
> XML databases in connection with a sort of CMS system that I'm envisioning.

I hadn't even thought about XML databases, so I'm not even sure what that means.  Is that somehow storing XML format data in SQL?  It is on my to do list to write an API for reading/writing XML data with flat (text) files for sharing data between 2 machines (SourceTree).  I looked into that once but couldn't decide if there's one best way for that or if I need a sort of hybrid solution.  I found one API that claims to pick data out of the file by telling it tags to look for, and another API that claims to read all the data into memory and deal with it there, JAXP vs JAXB?

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#34248

On Wed, 04 May 2016 07:31:37 -0700, Eric Douglas wrote:

> On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 10:20:06 AM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> Some years ago I had an occasion to look into XML databases. At that time I
>> fashioned up some stuff with Berkeley DB. It was a good bit of work and after
>> some time I simply lost interest. Recently I have been thinking again about
>> XML databases in connection with a sort of CMS system that I'm envisioning.
> 
> I hadn't even thought about XML databases, so I'm not even sure what that means.  Is that somehow storing XML format data in SQL?  

I'm sure Wikipedia could do the definition more justice than I.

It is on my to do list to write an API for reading/writing XML data with flat (text) files for sharing data between 2 machines (SourceTree).  I looked into that once but couldn't decide if there's one best way for that or if I need a sort of hybrid solution.  I found one API that claims to pick data out of the file by telling it tags to look for, and another API that claims to read all the data into memory and deal with it there, JAXP vs JAXB?

I'm not sure there is a question here, if so I'm not sure I follow.

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#34250

On 5/4/2016 10:31 AM, Eric Douglas wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 10:20:06 AM UTC-4, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> Some years ago I had an occasion to look into XML databases. At
>> that time I fashioned up some stuff with Berkeley DB. It was a good
>> bit of work and after some time I simply lost interest. Recently I
>> have been thinking again about XML databases in connection with a
>> sort of CMS system that I'm envisioning.
>
> I hadn't even thought about XML databases, so I'm not even sure what
> that means.  Is that somehow storing XML format data in SQL?

Yes. It stores all database as XML documents. And data are
accessed via XPath (well - probably XQuery but that includes XPath).

>                                                              It is
> on my to do list to write an API for reading/writing XML data with
> flat (text) files for sharing data between 2 machines (SourceTree).
> I looked into that once but couldn't decide if there's one best way
> for that or if I need a sort of hybrid solution.  I found one API
> that claims to pick data out of the file by telling it tags to look
> for, and another API that claims to read all the data into memory and
> deal with it there, JAXP vs JAXB?

You will not benefit from an XML database for that.

Your choices must be:

you want to map between objects and XML files => use JAXB

you just want to write and read XML files => use JAXP (DOM or SAX) or StAX

Arne

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#34254

On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 8:05:38 PM UTC-4, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> You will not benefit from an XML database for that.
> 
> Your choices must be:
> 
> you want to map between objects and XML files => use JAXB
> 
> you just want to write and read XML files => use JAXP (DOM or SAX) or StAX
> 
> Arne

Right?  Our application currently stores all data in flat mkeyed files (http://documentation.basis.com/BASISHelp/WebHelp/usr/mkeyed_files.htm).

We have an in house tool outside the application which is only used by developers, but we want the data to be edited independently and shared by multiple developers (merge changes using SourceTree), so I'm thinking of moving the data for that tool, currently also in mkeyed format, to an XML format (so it appears as plain text for merge tools).

So I wanted to find the simplest, most logical way to access that file/record/field type data in XML.
First is the question of do we simply store everything as tag data:
<record><field1>value</field1></record>
or is there a pratical reason for tag attributes:
<record key="0001"><field1>value</field1></record>
or is there anything else we should know about the data syntax to put in from the start so we don't have to rewrite a bunch of files?

Then there's the question do we need binding?
https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/jaxb/intro/
os just the basic XML API?
https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/jaxp/

Then do we choose a model (SAX, DOM, or StAX?) or (can we have / do we want) multiple methods accessing the same XML data using different models for different reasons?

Getting back to the thread topic, would our use of XML for text data files for local application benefit from XQuery?
https://docs.oracle.com/database/121/ADXDK/adx_j_xqj.htm#ADXDK99930

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#34255

On 5/5/2016 9:06 AM, Eric Douglas wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 at 8:05:38 PM UTC-4, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> You will not benefit from an XML database for that.
>>
>> Your choices must be:
>>
>> you want to map between objects and XML files => use JAXB
>>
>> you just want to write and read XML files => use JAXP (DOM or SAX)
>> or StAX
>
> Right?  Our application currently stores all data in flat mkeyed
> files
> (http://documentation.basis.com/BASISHelp/WebHelp/usr/mkeyed_files.htm).
>
>  We have an in house tool outside the application which is only used
> by developers, but we want the data to be edited independently and
> shared by multiple developers (merge changes using SourceTree), so
> I'm thinking of moving the data for that tool, currently also in
> mkeyed format, to an XML format (so it appears as plain text for
> merge tools).

A merge tool would need to be XML aware to merge XML files.

But you certainly have a lot of tools to choose from when going XML.

> So I wanted to find the simplest, most logical way to access that
> file/record/field type data in XML. First is the question of do we
> simply store everything as tag data:
> <record><field1>value</field1></record> or is there a pratical reason
> for tag attributes: <record
> key="0001"><field1>value</field1></record> or is there anything else
> we should know about the data syntax to put in from the start so we
> don't have to rewrite a bunch of files?

The discussion about elements vs attributes is a classic discussion.

There are some objective guidance like:
- elements allow complex data aka sub elements, attributes do not
- elements allow repeats, attributes do not
- attributes takes much less space than elements

But then there is the more "what is the rigth way" aspects.

I would suggest:
- use elements for core data
- use attributes for auxiliary data

Example:

<address status="verified">
     <street>bla bla bla</street>
     <city>bla</city>
     <zip>bla</zip>
</address>

Street, city and zip are the core of address.

That the address has been verified is just some second level additional
information about the address.

> Then there's the question do we need binding?
> https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/jaxb/intro/ os just the basic
> XML API? https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/jaxp/

As already stated then JAXB or not must depend on whether you
want to use object to XML file mapping or not.

> Then do we choose a model (SAX, DOM, or StAX?) or (can we have / do
> we want) multiple methods accessing the same XML data using different
> models for different reasons?

You can use different methods for different purposes. But it will
require your developers to be familiar with multiple methods.

I would tend to say:
* avoid SAX unless you need to parse large files very fast
* use StAX for very basic reading and writing
* use DOM in case you need advanced processing of XML
* consider one of the third party DOM's on top of standard W3C DOM
   as they are often easier to use

> Getting back to the thread topic, would our use of XML for text data
> files for local application benefit from XQuery?
> https://docs.oracle.com/database/121/ADXDK/adx_j_xqj.htm#ADXDK99930

DOM and XPath should do it.

Arne

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#34249

On 5/4/2016 10:16 AM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> On Wed, 04 May 2016 08:42:50 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 5/2/2016 6:44 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>> On Sun, 01 May 2016 00:01:13 +0000, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 08:28:00 -0700, Priya Mohan wrote:
>>>>> Hi - I am looking to learn the XQuery with Java. Could you please direct me to
>>  >>> any beginner books and good tutorials for me to start learning and
>> get the
>>  >>> concepts as quickly as possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the help
>>>>
>>>> Likely, the easiest path would be to grab a copy of
>>>> SAXON The XSLT and XQuery Processor
>>>> <http://saxon.sourceforge.net/> and start playing.
>>>
>>> Another option. Away from the metal, but maybe what you are looking for.
>>> Easy to get started with, just download the installer and run. Everything you
>>> need to get started is in there. Lots of demos and tutorials.
>>>
>>> eXistdb
>>> <http://exist-db.org/exist/apps/homepage/index.html>
>>
>> And that product was very hot 10 years ago.
>>
>> :-)
>>
> Some years ago I had an occasion to look into XML databases. At that time I
> fashioned up some stuff with Berkeley DB. It was a good bit of work and after
> some time I simply lost interest. Recently I have been thinking again about
> XML databases in connection with a sort of CMS system that I'm envisioning.
> This post prompted me to have a look about and I came across eXist-db. I've
> installed it had a pretty good look at the documentation and done some playing.
> It looks like it could handle a lot of what I have in mind. If you're familiar
> with Distributed Proofreaders what I have in mind is similar.
>
> I haven't spent a great amount of time researching yet so your post prompts me
> to ask. If eXistdb was a hot product 10 years ago and is apparently still
> undergoing maintenance and upgrading that would seem to indicate a pretty well
> used product. Is there something out there that has overtaken it? Are XML
> databases passé? I'm afraid I don't know the space well, so any hints or some
> more words on the subject would be much appreciated.

First the disclaimer:
- this is all very subjective
- much of this is 10+ years back and my memory is not as good
   as it used to be
- I am not and was not in any way an expert in this area

With that out of the way let me give my take on the topic.

In the early 00's then XML databases was very hot.

The biggest player was a commercial offering from Software AG
(I think they call it Tamino today, but I don't think they did
back then).

The biggest player in the open source space was eXist DB.

I tried it out back then and it seemed rather cool.

I consider the XML database market almost dead or
extremely niche if you prefer that term today.

For several reasons:
* RDBMS's like Oracle, DB2 and SQLServer added some XML support
* JSON took a large piece of XML's space (JSON is much more
   common than XML in newer NoSQL databases)
* maybe the market was never as big as some thought
   it was

That should not prevent you from using eXist DB if you have
a good use case for it.

Just don't expect thousands of jobs requiring eXist DB skills
to pop up.

Arne

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#34259

On Wed, 04 May 2016 20:01:01 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> On 5/4/2016 10:16 AM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 May 2016 08:42:50 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 5/2/2016 6:44 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 01 May 2016 00:01:13 +0000, Jeff Higgins wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2016 08:28:00 -0700, Priya Mohan wrote:
>>>>>> Hi - I am looking to learn the XQuery with Java. Could you please direct me to
>>>  >>> any beginner books and good tutorials for me to start learning and
>>> get the
>>>  >>> concepts as quickly as possible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the help
>>>>>
>>>>> Likely, the easiest path would be to grab a copy of
>>>>> SAXON The XSLT and XQuery Processor
>>>>> <http://saxon.sourceforge.net/> and start playing.
>>>>
>>>> Another option. Away from the metal, but maybe what you are looking for.
>>>> Easy to get started with, just download the installer and run. Everything you
>>>> need to get started is in there. Lots of demos and tutorials.
>>>>
>>>> eXistdb
>>>> <http://exist-db.org/exist/apps/homepage/index.html>
>>>
>>> And that product was very hot 10 years ago.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>> Some years ago I had an occasion to look into XML databases. At that time I
>> fashioned up some stuff with Berkeley DB. It was a good bit of work and after
>> some time I simply lost interest. Recently I have been thinking again about
>> XML databases in connection with a sort of CMS system that I'm envisioning.
>> This post prompted me to have a look about and I came across eXist-db. I've
>> installed it had a pretty good look at the documentation and done some playing.
>> It looks like it could handle a lot of what I have in mind. If you're familiar
>> with Distributed Proofreaders what I have in mind is similar.
>>
>> I haven't spent a great amount of time researching yet so your post prompts me
>> to ask. If eXistdb was a hot product 10 years ago and is apparently still
>> undergoing maintenance and upgrading that would seem to indicate a pretty well
>> used product. Is there something out there that has overtaken it? Are XML
>> databases passé? I'm afraid I don't know the space well, so any hints or some
>> more words on the subject would be much appreciated.
> 
> First the disclaimer:
> - this is all very subjective
> - much of this is 10+ years back and my memory is not as good
>    as it used to be
> - I am not and was not in any way an expert in this area
> 
> With that out of the way let me give my take on the topic.
> 
> In the early 00's then XML databases was very hot.
> 
> The biggest player was a commercial offering from Software AG
> (I think they call it Tamino today, but I don't think they did
> back then).
> 
> The biggest player in the open source space was eXist DB.
> 
> I tried it out back then and it seemed rather cool.
> 
> I consider the XML database market almost dead or
> extremely niche if you prefer that term today.
> 
> For several reasons:
> * RDBMS's like Oracle, DB2 and SQLServer added some XML support
> * JSON took a large piece of XML's space (JSON is much more
>    common than XML in newer NoSQL databases)
> * maybe the market was never as big as some thought
>    it was
> 
> That should not prevent you from using eXist DB if you have
> a good use case for it.

OK, great, thanks for that.
It seems to me at this point that all of my data and metadata
is in XML and perfectly happy to stay that way except to make
processing decisions based upon, and to display the metadata in
forms and such. One big plus for eXist Db is the infrastructure
that they supply around the database itself. This is where I lost 
interest last time using Berkeley.

> Just don't expect thousands of jobs requiring eXist DB skills
> to pop up.
> 

Thankfully not looking for a job.:-)

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#34253

On Wed, 04 May 2016 14:16:27 +0000, Jeff Higgins wrote:

> I haven't spent a great amount of time researching yet so your post
> prompts me to ask. If eXistdb was a hot product 10 years ago and is
> apparently still undergoing maintenance and upgrading that would seem to
> indicate a pretty well used product. Is there something out there that
> has overtaken it? Are XML databases passé? I'm afraid I don't know the
> space well, so any hints or some more words on the subject would be much
> appreciated.
>
I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML_database
is a useful summary of what the various descriptive names for XML 
databases mean and how the various products are related.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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