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  Beginner arya.neelan@gmail.com - 2015-08-31 05:39 -0700
    Re: Beginner e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-08-31 06:27 -0700
      Re: Beginner Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 10:08 -0700
        Re: Beginner Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-03 20:04 -0400
    Re: Beginner Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> - 2015-09-02 16:33 -0500
      Re: Beginner Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-03 20:13 -0400
      Re: Beginner Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-03 20:15 -0400
    Re: Beginner Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-03 10:39 +0000
      Re: Beginner Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2015-09-04 01:16 +1000
        Re: Beginner Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-03 18:50 +0000
          Re: Beginner Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-03 20:11 -0400
            Re: Beginner Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-04 08:38 +0000
              Re: Beginner e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-09-04 05:21 -0700
                Re: Beginner Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2015-09-04 09:43 -0700
                  Re: Beginner e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-09-04 10:35 -0700
      Re: Beginner Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-03 20:06 -0400
        Re: Beginner Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-04 08:41 +0000
    Re: Beginner "F. Berisha" <fmberisha@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 02:30 +0200
      Re: Beginner Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-06 21:44 -0400
        Re: Beginner Jerry Stuckle <jstucklex@attglobal.net> - 2015-09-06 21:53 -0400
        Re: Beginner Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2015-09-07 08:43 +0000
          Re: Beginner Eternal Hope <laughingspam99@gmail.com> - 2015-09-07 13:02 +0100
            Re: Beginner Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-07 11:17 -0400
          Re: Beginner Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2015-09-07 11:11 -0400
        Re: Beginner e.d.programmer@gmail.com - 2015-09-08 05:25 -0700

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#32446 — Beginner

Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about java

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#32447

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 8:39:23 AM UTC-4, arya....@gmail.com wrote:
> Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about java

Do you know anything about any other languages?
I would recommend starting at the beginning of the official tutorial, which is free.  If you have trouble learning on your own you can pay someone to help you.

http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/index.html

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#32448

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 6:27:34 AM UTC-7, e.d.pro...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 8:39:23 AM UTC-4, arya....@gmail.com wrote:
> > Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about java
> 
> Do you know anything about any other languages?
> I would recommend starting at the beginning of the official tutorial, which is free.  If you have trouble learning on your own you can pay someone to help you.
> 
> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/index.html

A great second book, after the Tutorial, is _Effective Java_, by Joshua Bloch.

-- 
Lew

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#32503

On 8/31/2015 1:08 PM, Lew wrote:
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 6:27:34 AM UTC-7, e.d.pro...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 8:39:23 AM UTC-4, arya....@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>> Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about
>>> books that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know
>>> nothing about java
>>
>> Do you know anything about any other languages? I would recommend
>> starting at the beginning of the official tutorial, which is free.
>> If you have trouble learning on your own you can pay someone to
>> help you.
>>
>> http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/index.html
>
> A great second book, after the Tutorial, is _Effective Java_, by
> Joshua Bloch.

It is definitely a good book.

But I think that the reader will benefit a lot more from the book if
having spend a good chunk of time programming in Java (maybe 500+ hours)
before reading it.

Arne

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#32470

On 8/31/2015 7:39 AM, arya.neelan@gmail.com wrote:
> Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about java
>


This book is award winning and has free version:

http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ/

-RFH

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#32506

On 9/3/2015 3:33 AM, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Ramon F Herrera <ramon@conexus.net> writes:
>> This book is award winning and has free version:
>> http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ/
>
>    Recently someone claimed that "Thinking in Java 3",
>    contained this sentence:
>
> |If you're defining an anonymous inner class and want to use an
> |object that's defined outside the anonymous inner class, the
> |compiler requires that the argument reference be final, like
> |the argument to dest().
>
>    Here, Eckel writes:
>
>        »object that's defined«.
>
>    Objects, however, are not "defined", they are /created/ at
>    run-time. Names of reference variables are being /declared/
>    in the source text, not "defined".

Yes yes yes.

But that short of language terminology finesses are utterly
irrelevant for beginners learning the language.

Arne

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#32507

On 9/2/2015 5:33 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> On 8/31/2015 7:39 AM, arya.neelan@gmail.com wrote:
>> Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books
>> that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about java
>
> This book is award winning and has free version:
>
> http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ/

I do not have that good an impression of Eckel and his TIx books.

But YMMV. And value for money is usually high for something free!

Arne

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#32488

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:39:12 -0700, arya.neelan wrote:

> Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books
> that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about
> java

I taught myself Java with Ivor Horton's "Beginning Java". Its reasonably 
well written, covered all the topics I needed and provided decent example 
code and exercises. About the worst you can say is that the latest 
edition seems to be for Java 7.

It may be relevant to this recommendation that I'd been writing C for at 
least 10 years when I picked up Java.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#32492

Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:39:12 -0700, arya.neelan wrote:
>
>> Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books
>> that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about
>> java
>
>I taught myself Java with Ivor Horton's "Beginning Java". Its reasonably 
>well written, covered all the topics I needed and provided decent example 
>code and exercises. About the worst you can say is that the latest 
>edition seems to be for Java 7.
>
>It may be relevant to this recommendation that I'd been writing C for at 
>least 10 years when I picked up Java.

I can't recommend a particular book but I would strongly advise the OP
to take note of that last sentence. The text books I have consulted
waste space by telling me how Java differs from, or is similar to,
C[++] although I have carefully avoided anything later than K&R C.

If you don't know C++ don't adopt a Java text book that mentions it.

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#32500

On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 01:16:48 +1000, Gordon Levi wrote:

> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:39:12 -0700, arya.neelan wrote:
>>
>>> Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books
>>> that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about
>>> java
>>
>>I taught myself Java with Ivor Horton's "Beginning Java". Its reasonably
>>well written, covered all the topics I needed and provided decent
>>example code and exercises. About the worst you can say is that the
>>latest edition seems to be for Java 7.
>>
>>It may be relevant to this recommendation that I'd been writing C for at
>>least 10 years when I picked up Java.
> 
> I can't recommend a particular book but I would strongly advise the OP
> to take note of that last sentence. The text books I have consulted
> waste space by telling me how Java differs from, or is similar to, C[++]
> although I have carefully avoided anything later than K&R C.
> 
> If you don't know C++ don't adopt a Java text book that mentions it.
>
There's no reason for a book that teaches Java to mention any other 
programming language. Ever. I only mentioned that I already had quite 
extensive C experience to show that I already had a programming 
background which might unintentionally bias my view of what is or is not 
a suitable book to learn Java from.

The Horton book doesn't mention C, C++ or any other programming language. 
Its introduction starts by summarising the Java runtime and compilation 
systems followed by a language-free introduction to objects, classes and 
packages, the general structure of a Java program and the standard class 
library. Then it introduces Java from first principles.

In this its structure is quite similar to "The C Programming Language" by 
Kernighan & Richie - IMO one of the best 'how to program in XXXX' books 
ever written.

The only thing it doesn't mention, and probably should, is javadocs. IMO 
a short chapter giving an intro to javadocs and hints on how to use them 
effectively would be useful.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#32505

On 9/3/2015 2:50 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 01:16:48 +1000, Gordon Levi wrote:
>> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>>> It may be relevant to this recommendation that I'd been writing C for at
>>> least 10 years when I picked up Java.
>>
>> I can't recommend a particular book but I would strongly advise the OP
>> to take note of that last sentence. The text books I have consulted
>> waste space by telling me how Java differs from, or is similar to, C[++]
>> although I have carefully avoided anything later than K&R C.
>>
>> If you don't know C++ don't adopt a Java text book that mentions it.
>>
> There's no reason for a book that teaches Java to mention any other
> programming language. Ever. I only mentioned that I already had quite
> extensive C experience to show that I already had a programming
> background which might unintentionally bias my view of what is or is not
> a suitable book to learn Java from.

Sometimes making a comparison to popular languages can provide
a lot of info for very little text for those that know that
language.

Obviously it should not be a main topic. But a few
references where relevant could provide a lot of value
for those knowing the language with minimal inconvenience
for the rest.

Arne

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#32514

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 20:11:04 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> On 9/3/2015 2:50 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 01:16:48 +1000, Gordon Levi wrote:
>>> Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote:
>>>> It may be relevant to this recommendation that I'd been writing C for
>>>> at least 10 years when I picked up Java.
>>>
>>> I can't recommend a particular book but I would strongly advise the OP
>>> to take note of that last sentence. The text books I have consulted
>>> waste space by telling me how Java differs from, or is similar to,
>>> C[++]
>>> although I have carefully avoided anything later than K&R C.
>>>
>>> If you don't know C++ don't adopt a Java text book that mentions it.
>>>
>> There's no reason for a book that teaches Java to mention any other
>> programming language. Ever. I only mentioned that I already had quite
>> extensive C experience to show that I already had a programming
>> background which might unintentionally bias my view of what is or is
>> not a suitable book to learn Java from.
> 
> Sometimes making a comparison to popular languages can provide a lot of
> info for very little text for those that know that language.
> 
Yes, agreed, but that implies that the reader has a reasonable amount of 
experience with the other language. C or C++ references are useless or 
worse for a COBOL, Fortran or RPG2 programmer. 

What you're really saying is that we need two types of programming books: 
one for ab initios and another for those who are learning an additional 
language. I'm not disagreeing, but would say that its probably easier to 
write a good ab initio book than it is to write an equally good book that 
assumes prior knowledge.
 

-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#32518

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 4:40:06 AM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> Yes, agreed, but that implies that the reader has a reasonable amount of 
> experience with the other language. C or C++ references are useless or 
> worse for a COBOL, Fortran or RPG2 programmer. 
> 
> What you're really saying is that we need two types of programming books: 
> one for ab initios and another for those who are learning an additional 
> language. I'm not disagreeing, but would say that its probably easier to 
> write a good ab initio book than it is to write an equally good book that 
> assumes prior knowledge.

That is what I was thinking.  Why would any book specifically mention another language, unless it's easier to explain in relative terms and they call the book something like "Java Made Easy for the C Programmer"?
I taught myself Java using the Oracle online tutorials, since Java wasn't really a thing when I was in college.  I had one semester of C language so I barely learned the basics.  My prior development was mainly COBOL and BASIC.
Unless you're writing a "for dummies" book you could probably just assume the reader knows the basics, like what is a variable.  Then a beginner book starts with defining the different variable types, and how to write class and method constructors.

I once bought a thick book that tells everything you need to know about being a SQL DBA.  I got through at least 100 pages and gave up as I decided it's too tedious to learn coding by reading, trying to remember all the commands.  It's much easier to learn by doing, so to be able to follow an online tutorial with code samples is wonderful.

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#32527

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 05:21:51 -0700 (PDT), e.d.programmer@gmail.com
wrote:

>On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 4:40:06 AM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> Yes, agreed, but that implies that the reader has a reasonable amount of 
>> experience with the other language. C or C++ references are useless or 
>> worse for a COBOL, Fortran or RPG2 programmer. 
>> 
>> What you're really saying is that we need two types of programming books: 
>> one for ab initios and another for those who are learning an additional 
>> language. I'm not disagreeing, but would say that its probably easier to 
>> write a good ab initio book than it is to write an equally good book that 
>> assumes prior knowledge.
>
>That is what I was thinking.  Why would any book specifically mention another
 language, unless it's easier to explain in relative terms and they
call the book something like "Java Made Easy for the C Programmer"?

     One reason would be to point out a significant difference or a
gotcha in the way that <book's language> does something.

     Another would be to state that <book's language> works just like
<other language> or just like <other language> except for.  That would
help those who know <other language> pick up <book's language> more
easily.  This could be a sidebar.

>I taught myself Java using the Oracle online tutorials, since Java wasn't
 really a thing when I was in college.  I had one semester of C
language so I barely learned the basics.  My prior development was
mainly COBOL and BASIC.

>Unless you're writing a "for dummies" book you could probably just assume the
 reader knows the basics, like what is a variable.  Then a beginner
book starts with defining the different variable types, and how to
write class and method constructors.

     Well, no.  A beginner book should introduce the concept of a
variable.  Otherwise, one can not begin with that book.

>I once bought a thick book that tells everything you need to know about being
 a SQL DBA.  I got through at least 100 pages and gave up as I decided
it's too tedious to learn coding by reading, trying to remember all
the commands.  It's much easier to learn by doing, so to be able to
follow an online tutorial with code samples is wonderful.

     Or follow the text examples.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

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#32529

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 12:43:16 PM UTC-4, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>      Another would be to state that <book's language> works just like
> <other language> or just like <other language> except for.  That would
> help those who know <other language> pick up <book's language> more
> easily.  This could be a sidebar.
> 
That is a pointless waste of space in a book to tell someone how a language is or isn't like another language they may not know.  That is either the point of the book (learning Java made easier for those who know C) or a tangent.  Do you appreciate college professors who tell war stories?  Would you teach French to an English speaker by making correlations to Portuguese?

> >I taught myself Java using the Oracle online tutorials, since Java wasn't
>  really a thing when I was in college.  I had one semester of C
> language so I barely learned the basics.  My prior development was
> mainly COBOL and BASIC.
> 
> >Unless you're writing a "for dummies" book you could probably just assume the
>  reader knows the basics, like what is a variable.  Then a beginner
> book starts with defining the different variable types, and how to
> write class and method constructors.
> 
>      Well, no.  A beginner book should introduce the concept of a
> variable.  Otherwise, one can not begin with that book.

If you don't understand the concept of a variable, get a "for dummies" book.
For example, here's a beginner tutorial: http://www.w3schools.in/java/
They expect you have some general knowledge of programming.  They even mention "If you understand the basic concept of OOP java would be easy to master".

>      Or follow the text examples.

So you like buying hard copies of books that print programs you can copy into your favorite IDE by hand?  This sounds like a fine idea for anyone with no internet access who can't get media (CD, flash drive) with their book.  I have a nice 400+ page SQL DBA book.  It's been years since I looked at it but I'm sure it has code samples in it, but it's not a great way for most people to learn unless they have a photographic memory.

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#32504

On 9/3/2015 6:39 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 05:39:12 -0700, arya.neelan wrote:
>
>> Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books
>> that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about
>> java
>
> I taught myself Java with Ivor Horton's "Beginning Java". Its reasonably
> well written, covered all the topics I needed and provided decent example
> code and exercises. About the worst you can say is that the latest
> edition seems to be for Java 7.

My impression is that Ivor Horton is excellent at writing programming
language introductory books (which is very different and in many ways
lot more difficult from being an expert in the language).

Arne

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#32515

On Thu, 03 Sep 2015 20:06:15 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> My impression is that Ivor Horton is excellent at writing programming
> language introductory books (which is very different and in many ways
> lot more difficult from being an expert in the language).
>
Agreed, and a problem with this thread is that nobody knows what, if any, 
prior programming experience the OP has to build on.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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#32546

In article <33e782a9-792d-44f1-ab5f-4cdc2a7b8174@googlegroups.com>,
arya.neelan@gmail.com says...
> 
> Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books
> that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about
> java

I have been using

D. Schmidt, Programming Principles in Java: Architectures and Interfaces

for teaching Java as a first programming language. It is freely
available at

http://people.cis.ksu.edu/~schmidt/CIS200

and has been used as an introductory coursebook to Java in many
universities.

-- 
Faton Berisha

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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#32548

On 9/6/2015 8:30 PM, F. Berisha wrote:
> In article <33e782a9-792d-44f1-ab5f-4cdc2a7b8174@googlegroups.com>,
> arya.neelan@gmail.com says...
>> Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books
>> that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about
>> java
>
> I have been using
>
> D. Schmidt, Programming Principles in Java: Architectures and Interfaces
>
> for teaching Java as a first programming language. It is freely
> available at
>
> http://people.cis.ksu.edu/~schmidt/CIS200
>
> and has been used as an introductory coursebook to Java in many
> universities.

I may be somewhat picky.

But I don't like it.

http://people.cis.ksu.edu/~schmidt/CIS200/ch2V9.html

"The Java designers use the term application to describe a program that 
is started by a human user."

I consider Java programs started by a job scheduler to be applications
as well.

The diagrams are very home made in style - far from UML.

The code is formatted in a very non-standard way.

"Java is a wordy programming language, and we must tolerate distracting 
words like public, static, void, which will be explained in due course."

is not a language I would expect at university level - even though
the intention may be to just say that their meaning will be explained later.

"The program's spelling and grammar must be checked by the Java 
compiler; that is, the program must be compiled."

compilation does more than that.

"The JDK can be obtained from Sun Microsystems's Web Site at 
http://java.sun.com. "

the URL still works but it is many years since Oracle acquired SUN.

"The keyword, public, indicates that the class can be used by the 
``general public,'' which includes other objects and human users, to 
build objects on demand."

again wording I would not expect at university level. And not
very accurate.

"Figure 3 has an interesting architecture: NameAndDate is the 
controller, because it controls what will happen; System.out is the 
output view, because it presents the ``view'' of the program to its 
user; and GregorianCalendar is the model, because it ``models'' the 
computer clock---this is our first, simplistic example of a 
model-view-controller (MVC) architecture---see Chapter 1."

I would not call a main class with System.out and a data class for MVC.

Wildcard imports is used.

"2.5 Repairing Compiler Error Messages"

hmmm....

"our application sends messages to a pre-existing object, named 
System.out, which is Java's name for the command window"

again a highly questionable wording.

It is not easy to write good beginner books. And I am not sure that
I could write one myself.

But this is a very good reason to pick an existing book written
by someone good at writing beginner books instead of trying
to write something.

Arne

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#32549

On 9/6/2015 9:44 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 9/6/2015 8:30 PM, F. Berisha wrote:
>> In article <33e782a9-792d-44f1-ab5f-4cdc2a7b8174@googlegroups.com>,
>> arya.neelan@gmail.com says...
>>> Am a beginner in java programming and would like to know about books
>>> that can teach the basics of java. Keep in mind i know nothing about
>>> java
>>
>> I have been using
>>
>> D. Schmidt, Programming Principles in Java: Architectures and Interfaces
>>
>> for teaching Java as a first programming language. It is freely
>> available at
>>
>> http://people.cis.ksu.edu/~schmidt/CIS200
>>
>> and has been used as an introductory coursebook to Java in many
>> universities.
> 
> I may be somewhat picky.
> 
> But I don't like it.
> 
> http://people.cis.ksu.edu/~schmidt/CIS200/ch2V9.html
> 
> "The Java designers use the term application to describe a program that
> is started by a human user."
> 
> I consider Java programs started by a job scheduler to be applications
> as well.
> 
> The diagrams are very home made in style - far from UML.
> 
> The code is formatted in a very non-standard way.
> 
> "Java is a wordy programming language, and we must tolerate distracting
> words like public, static, void, which will be explained in due course."
> 
> is not a language I would expect at university level - even though
> the intention may be to just say that their meaning will be explained
> later.
> 
> "The program's spelling and grammar must be checked by the Java
> compiler; that is, the program must be compiled."
> 
> compilation does more than that.
> 
> "The JDK can be obtained from Sun Microsystems's Web Site at
> http://java.sun.com. "
> 
> the URL still works but it is many years since Oracle acquired SUN.
> 
> "The keyword, public, indicates that the class can be used by the
> ``general public,'' which includes other objects and human users, to
> build objects on demand."
> 
> again wording I would not expect at university level. And not
> very accurate.
> 
> "Figure 3 has an interesting architecture: NameAndDate is the
> controller, because it controls what will happen; System.out is the
> output view, because it presents the ``view'' of the program to its
> user; and GregorianCalendar is the model, because it ``models'' the
> computer clock---this is our first, simplistic example of a
> model-view-controller (MVC) architecture---see Chapter 1."
> 
> I would not call a main class with System.out and a data class for MVC.
> 
> Wildcard imports is used.
> 
> "2.5 Repairing Compiler Error Messages"
> 
> hmmm....
> 
> "our application sends messages to a pre-existing object, named
> System.out, which is Java's name for the command window"
> 
> again a highly questionable wording.
> 
> It is not easy to write good beginner books. And I am not sure that
> I could write one myself.
> 
> But this is a very good reason to pick an existing book written
> by someone good at writing beginner books instead of trying
> to write something.
> 
> Arne
> 

Arne,

I haven't read this book, but I have to agree with every criticism you
have about it.  I've never written a book (beginner or otherwise), but I
have written courses on programming.

I admit the latter is much easier, but I would never use the wording
this book uses in a course, much less a book.

-- 
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
jstucklex@attglobal.net
==================

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