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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #4364 > unrolled thread
| Started by | horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2011-05-20 14:43 -0700 |
| Last post | 2011-05-26 16:37 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 90 — 19 participants |
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tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-20 14:43 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-21 09:57 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 18:27 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2011-05-21 08:56 +0800
Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-20 21:28 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 11:11 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-20 18:31 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2011-05-21 12:15 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 11:15 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-05-22 14:35 +0100
Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-22 08:12 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:26 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 20:59 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 22:01 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 14:17 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 23:34 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 18:44 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 09:13 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-23 10:37 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-24 20:15 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-05-24 07:04 -0300
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:14 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-24 08:10 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-05-24 16:09 +0300
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-26 11:35 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-05-27 00:13 +0300
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 18:50 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-27 09:55 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-27 11:31 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-28 14:35 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-28 12:17 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-30 03:26 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-03 08:19 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 18:29 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-20 16:11 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-20 20:12 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-21 09:10 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-21 12:55 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:18 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:37 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 05:58 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:34 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 18:11 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 22:06 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 20:26 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-05-22 21:31 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 14:14 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:31 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 12:08 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-19 14:43 +0200
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:13 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2011-05-22 17:39 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-22 15:38 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:24 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:41 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 05:43 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-22 08:53 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 06:15 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:38 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-23 12:17 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 05:22 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-24 08:38 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-24 06:33 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-25 12:06 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 05:54 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 00:57 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-26 09:04 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 06:12 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2011-05-26 09:28 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-26 14:47 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-26 13:51 +0000
Re: tools for programming applets Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> - 2011-05-26 07:38 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-26 15:23 +0000
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:10 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:11 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-05-27 14:47 +0000
Re: tools for programming applets Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> - 2011-05-24 10:07 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-23 11:27 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-23 12:23 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-23 08:50 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-24 14:45 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Andrew Thompson <andrewthommo@gmail.com> - 2011-05-25 03:46 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> - 2011-05-27 14:12 +1200
Re: tools for programming applets Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-05-21 09:31 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2011-05-22 08:05 +0800
Re: tools for programming applets horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> - 2011-05-22 05:30 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets markspace <-@.> - 2011-05-22 06:05 -0700
Re: tools for programming applets Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-05-24 12:30 +0200
Re: tools for programming applets Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-05-26 14:29 -0400
Re: tools for programming applets Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-05-26 16:37 +0000
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| From | Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-24 07:04 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <loLCp.18589$oq.12835@newsfe17.iad> |
| In reply to | #4517 |
On 11-05-24 05:15 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > In message <irdrer$dd1$1@dont-email.me>, Joshua Cranmer wrote: > >> That you completely cut off all context of where I explained this. > > *Sigh* I get this crap all the time from the clueless newbies. Let me > explain to you something about USENET: my postings are to record what I > said, not what you said. If I quote any part of you said, it is to give some > context for what I said, nothing more. [ SNIP ] That's the point of quoting, yes, to provide context for what you're saying. Joshua is saying that you didn't quote enough to provide context. You surely did not. In case you didn't know this about English (this is not a Usenet thing), the point of quoting as we use it here is typically to call attention to another person's position so you can agree or disagree with it, and follow up on what they said. Brevity is good, but you're supposed to keep enough quoted material to actually express the intent. Here's another way of looking at it: assume that readers only have the one post to examine. The sense of what you quote should independently accurately reflect what the original author is saying. "How about Swing?" fails miserably on that count. AHS
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-27 14:14 +1200 |
| Message-ID | <irn1ea$b7q$5@lust.ihug.co.nz> |
| In reply to | #4520 |
In message <loLCp.18589$oq.12835@newsfe17.iad>, Arved Sandstrom wrote: > Here's another way of looking at it: assume that readers only have the > one post to examine. What a stupid assumption.
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| From | Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-24 08:10 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <irg769$633$2@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #4517 |
On 05/24/2011 04:15 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > In message<irdrer$dd1$1@dont-email.me>, Joshua Cranmer wrote: > >> That you completely cut off all context of where I explained this. > > *Sigh* I get this crap all the time from the clueless newbies. Let me Wow. You really have lost it this time, Lawrence. Please show more courtesy. > explain to you something about USENET: my postings are to record what I > said, not what you said. If I quote any part of you said, it is to give some > context for what I said, nothing more. > > Rest assured if I reply to you I did read what you said, whether I quoted it > or not. If I was ignoring what you said, I wouldn’t even bother replying to > you. Arrogant much, Lawrence? -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg
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| From | Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-24 16:09 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <irgamq$1m8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #4436 |
Mon, 23 May 2011 14:17:43 +1200, /Lawrence D'Oliveiro/: > In message <ircbic$g3e$1@dont-email.me>, Joshua Cranmer wrote: > >> Now, let me end by pointing out that Java has been able to do all of >> these things for over a decade. > > And yet nobody was ever able to do them. Where is the Java equivalent of > jQuery, for example? Which languages have a jQuery equivalent? jQuery is rather fat library for the things it does. It does a lot of things wrong, does not teach developers of learning the standard DOM, in turn teaches developers not doing things right, and finally adds quite a bit amount of crap going over the network which developers and users end up not really using. If you go to comp.lang.javascript you'll get quite negative opinion on the usefulness of the jQuery library from the experts. -- Stanimir
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-26 11:35 +1200 |
| Message-ID | <irk3or$lf3$2@lust.ihug.co.nz> |
| In reply to | #4533 |
In message <irgamq$1m8$1@dont-email.me>, Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: > jQuery ... does a lot of things wrong ... So put your coding skills where your mouth is, and offer up something better. > If you go to comp.lang.javascript you'll get quite negative opinion > on the usefulness of the jQuery library from the experts. It still offers functionality in places where Java doesn’t even have places.
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| From | Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-27 00:13 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <irmfp1$9lo$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #4585 |
Thu, 26 May 2011 11:35:55 +1200, /Lawrence D'Oliveiro/: > In message <irgamq$1m8$1@dont-email.me>, Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: > >> jQuery ... does a lot of things wrong ... > > So put your coding skills where your mouth is, and offer up something > better. > >> If you go to comp.lang.javascript you'll get quite negative opinion >> on the usefulness of the jQuery library from the experts. > > It still offers functionality in places where Java doesn’t even have places. You're obviously making silly remarks and no arguments. You've stripped and haven't replied to my question "Which languages have a jQuery equivalent?". I start to believe you have no clue what you're talking about, really. -- Stanimir
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-27 18:50 +1200 |
| Message-ID | <irnhjc$kao$2@lust.ihug.co.nz> |
| In reply to | #4611 |
In message <irmfp1$9lo$1@dont-email.me>, Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: > Thu, 26 May 2011 11:35:55 +1200, /Lawrence D'Oliveiro/: > >> In message <irgamq$1m8$1@dont-email.me>, Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: >> >>> jQuery ... does a lot of things wrong ... >> >> So put your coding skills where your mouth is, and offer up something >> better. >> >>> If you go to comp.lang.javascript you'll get quite negative opinion >>> on the usefulness of the jQuery library from the experts. >> >> It still offers functionality in places where Java doesn’t even have >> places. > > You're obviously making silly remarks and no arguments. You've > stripped and haven't replied to my question "Which languages have a > jQuery equivalent?". If you insist: “certainly not Java”. Own goal, anyone?
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| From | Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-27 09:55 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <iroaei$ko7$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #4641 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: >> Lawrence D'Oliveiro: >>> Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: >>>> Which languages have a jQuery equivalent? >>>> jQuery is rather fat library for the things it does. >>>> It does a lot of things wrong, does not teach developers >>>> of learning the standard DOM, in turn teaches developers not doing things right, >>>> and finally adds quite a bit amount of crap going over the network which developers >>>> and users end up not really using. >>> So put your coding skills where your mouth is, and offer up something >>> better. >>>> If you go to comp.lang.javascript you'll get quite negative opinion on the usefulness >>>> of the jQuery library from the experts. >>> It still offers functionality in places where Java doesn’t even have >>> places. >> You're obviously making silly remarks and no arguments. You've >> stripped and haven't replied to my question "Which languages have a >> jQuery equivalent?". > If you insist: “certainly not Java”. > > Own goal, anyone? Once again, silly remark and no argument. The question is what languages BESIDES Java DO have such a thing. The point is that the other languages don't either, so there is no advantage to any language on that score. You know that, you just don't have an answer to the valid point, so you engage in your stupid nonsense, Lawrence. Point goes to Stanimir, Lawrence. Next time, Lawrence, try addressing the point instead of pulling these intellectually dishonest pony tricks, Lawrence. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg
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| From | Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-27 11:31 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <irp6i302ig9@news3.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #4647 |
Lew wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >> Stanimir Stamenkov wrote: > >>> You're obviously making silly remarks and no arguments. You've >>> stripped and haven't replied to my question "Which languages have a >>> jQuery equivalent?". > >> If you insist: “certainly not Java”. > > Once again, silly remark and no argument. The question is what > languages BESIDES Java DO have such a thing. The point is that the > other languages don't either, so there is no advantage to any language > on that score. To be fair, horrible, ill-designed, bloated, overrated, unnecessary, standards-violating third-party libraries exist for many languages. There are probably even some for Java. It's true they're rarely as undeservedly popular as jQuery is. -- Michael Wojcik Micro Focus Rhetoric & Writing, Michigan State University
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| From | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@geek-central.gen.new_zealand> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-28 14:35 +1200 |
| Message-ID | <irpn10$si5$2@lust.ihug.co.nz> |
| In reply to | #4660 |
In message <irp6i302ig9@news3.newsguy.com>, Michael Wojcik wrote: > It's true they're rarely as undeservedly popular as jQuery is. “Undeservedly popular” is in the eye of the beholder.
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| From | Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-28 12:17 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.284aea25c9ecd017989768@news.justthe.net> |
| In reply to | #4672 |
In article <irpn10$si5$2@lust.ihug.co.nz>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro says...
>
> In message <irp6i302ig9@news3.newsguy.com>, Michael Wojcik wrote:
>
> > It's true they're rarely as undeservedly popular as jQuery is.
>
> ?Undeservedly popular? is in the eye of the beholder.
The one big criticism I might accept of jQuery is that it hides features
of the DOM that web developers really ought to learn.
On the other hand, I'm sick and tired of having to deal with differences
between the Javascript engines in IE, Firefox, Safari and Chrome. jQuery
abstracts all of that away, and that's the big reason I use it.
jQuery is also readable. When I see
$('div.myclass').attr('background-color','red')
it's pretty easy to figure out that I'm changing the background color of
all divs with a CSS class of 'myclass' to red.
I love jQuery, and I'm going to continue to use it.
--
Steve Sobol - Programming/WebDev/IT Support
sjsobol@JustThe.net
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| From | Alessio Stalla <alessiostalla@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-30 03:26 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b132fde7-03f5-4849-8499-a2e983c19ab7@l6g2000vbn.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #4688 |
On 28 Mag, 21:17, Steve Sobol <sjso...@JustThe.net> wrote: > In article <irpn10$si...@lust.ihug.co.nz>, Lawrence D'Oliveiro says... > > > > > In message <irp6i302...@news3.newsguy.com>, Michael Wojcik wrote: > > > > It's true they're rarely as undeservedly popular as jQuery is. > > > ?Undeservedly popular? is in the eye of the beholder. > > The one big criticism I might accept of jQuery is that it hides features > of the DOM that web developers really ought to learn. That, and the fact that it somewhat encourages an always-use-selectors- first style which is not the most efficient way of doing things. That said, I love jQuery too. I wouldn't love it that much if the DOM API wasn't the horrible, verbose thing that it is. Alessio
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| From | Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-06-03 08:19 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <isaq5f01eti@news2.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #4672 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > In message <irp6i302ig9@news3.newsguy.com>, Michael Wojcik wrote: > >> It's true they're rarely as undeservedly popular as jQuery is. > > “Undeservedly popular” is in the eye of the beholder. The sheer brilliance of your ability to distinguish between the objective and subjective is inspiring. What's next? Left from right? Hot from cold? Substantive from inane and trite? Probably not the last, I'm guessing.
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| From | Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-20 18:29 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ir6q09$q4t$2@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #4364 |
horos22 wrote: > I was looking to do some quick java [sic] development of applets. Here's my > situation: > > 1. I have a static server (ie: [sic] that I cannot touch) which serves my > client data (and applets). > 2. a bare-bones client programming setup (vim and java [sic] compiler) > > What I was hoping to do, therefore, is hijack the applets that are > coming from the server, and replace them with my own, compiled ones, > and hook the browser in such a way that when the applet is asked for, > my applet fires instead (hopefully in debugging mode) using the data from the server as input. > > Surely this is a common enough situation that there are standard > firefox plugins to do this.. > > Or is it? In any case any, help on this would be most appreciated. No, applets are designed to load only from their own server. You'd have to do some rather funky and heinous man-in-the-middle attack on your own server, and I'm not even sure that would work. In any event, it's not only very far from a standard or common situation, it isn't really even supposed to be possible. -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg
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| From | markspace <-@.> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-20 16:11 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ir6sfe$8sg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #4364 |
On 5/20/2011 2:43 PM, horos22 wrote: > What I was hoping to do, therefore, is hijack the applets that are > coming from the server, and replace them with my own, This really isn't a normal scenario, afaics. You might want to explain a little more about the situation. Why can't you touch the sever? (And how is it "static"?) The normal scenario is to clone their server as your test environment, then modify your own little copy for each modification you make and test it. Obviously, if you don't need every file on the server, you can get by with just cloning the bits you need.
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| From | Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-20 20:12 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ir7023$2l0$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #4370 |
markspace wrote: > horos22 wrote: >> What I was hoping to do, therefore, is hijack the applets that are >> coming from the server, and replace them with my own, > This really isn't a normal scenario, afaics. You might want to explain a > little more about the situation. Why can't you touch the sever? (And how is it > "static"?) > > The normal scenario is to clone their server as your test environment, then > modify your own little copy for each modification you make and test it. > Obviously, if you don't need every file on the server, you can get by with > just cloning the bits you need. Perhaps, OP, you're up to something nefarious or you'd simply test on localhost. Why aren't you testing on localhost, horos22? That would be the proper and safe and normal way to go from an engineering standpoint. The only reason I can think of to do what you want, horos22, is to crack someone's website to do harm. Why aren't you testing on localhost, horos22? -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg
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| From | horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-21 09:10 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d9f939a9-fddf-45df-9935-3bef2b11ed4f@r27g2000prr.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #4372 |
On May 20, 5:12 pm, Lew <no...@lewscanon.com> wrote: > markspace wrote: > > horos22 wrote: > >> What I was hoping to do, therefore, is hijack the applets that are > >> coming from the server, and replace them with my own, > > This really isn't a normal scenario, afaics. You might want to explain a > > little more about the situation. Why can't you touch the sever? (And how is it > > "static"?) > > > The normal scenario is to clone their server as your test environment, then > > modify your own little copy for each modification you make and test it. > > Obviously, if you don't need every file on the server, you can get by with > > just cloning the bits you need. > > Perhaps, OP, you're up to something nefarious or you'd simply test on > localhost. Why aren't you testing on localhost, horos22? That would be the > proper and safe and normal way to go from an engineering standpoint. The only > reason I can think of to do what you want, horos22, is to crack someone's > website to do harm. > Lew, The reason I don't clone their server is I don't have full access to it, and am unlikely to get full access to it. Frankly I don't want access to it. It is 'static' because I won't be able to change anything remotely. I can get source code to the applet, but I probably won't be able to upload it to any of their servers for testing. And testing on localhost is impossible if you rely on pieces of data from the remote server. You really want me to clone a database, web server, web configuration setup just to test one lousy applet? In order to do this, I shouldn't need access to *anything* external. I'm not 'hacking' anything besides my own client, and it *should* be as easy as simply replacing the remote applet for a local modified one. And I'd be perfectly fine with having to do something like asking the remote server admins to put an IP exemption in their server configuration in order to do this - *anything* just to avoid the headache of having to dup an entire environment. Frankly I'm surprised there isn't something like this. I can understand why it wouldn't be the standard or if you'd need a directive to javarun that requires authentication from the remote server to provide security for a non-standard local applet, but really - needing to rebuild the whole environment to just test a new applet strikes me as using a tail to wag the dog. Ed > Why aren't you testing on localhost, horos22? > > -- > Lew > Honi soit qui mal y pense.http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg
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| From | Joshua Cranmer <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-21 12:55 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <ir8qq6$d27$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #4385 |
On 05/21/2011 12:10 PM, horos22 wrote: > Frankly I'm surprised there isn't something like this. I can > understand why it wouldn't be the standard or if you'd need a > directive to javarun that requires authentication from the remote > server to provide security for a non-standard local applet, but really > - needing to rebuild the whole environment to just test a new applet > strikes me as using a tail to wag the dog. Java applets were designed to be as secure as possible. Hence why, for example, they are forbidden from opening a network connection to anywhere other than their source domain. Allowing you to replace your own applet to run in another's context domain is a recipe for security holes; in principle, you could allow the server to list other applets that can run in their domain (in similarity to how CORS stuff works), but that is essentially the same level of changes needed as hosting another copy of the applet. -- Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
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| From | horos22 <ed.peschko@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-22 05:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <c35b8314-9e08-4b69-87fb-71b448bd5773@s41g2000prb.googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #4388 |
> Java applets were designed to be as secure as possible. Hence why, for > example, they are forbidden from opening a network connection to > anywhere other than their source domain. Allowing you to replace your > own applet to run in another's context domain is a recipe for security > holes; in principle, you could allow the server to list other applets > that can run in their domain (in similarity to how CORS stuff works), > but that is essentially the same level of changes needed as hosting > another copy of the applet. > > -- Josuha, I understand that this is a security risk - if used in production systems. But as a development tool, it's invaluable. Consider protocol development. When I develop a ssh client, or mysql client, or iscsi client, I don't need to make a new server instance or somehow have to duplicate the server environment. The tests are *client* driven. I change the client, and as long as the protocol works, I can make whatever changes I want behind the scenes without touching *anything* except the source code on the client. Suppose you had 10 developers working on an applet. What are they supposed to do? Duplicate the parent environment 10 separate times? What if the central environment changes? Do you then need to propogate those changes to all 10 daughter environments? what if two people want to merge changes or then test their changes our versus production data? Do they need then to impact production by having their applet hosted in the production world? This makes no sense. I can't believe there isn't something out there to do this. Unix has a permissions system and its invaluable - you open up the permissions on things to do development, get stuff done, and then close down the permissions when you ship. There's gotta be a way to overcome the extreme development penalty inherent in cloning environments here; elsewise I feel damn sorry for the java applet developer.. Ed
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| From | Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2011-05-22 08:37 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <irb031$9og$1@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #4409 |
horos22 wrote: Attribution restored (shame on you, horos22!) Joshua Cranmer wrote: >> Java applets were designed to be as secure as possible. Hence why, for >> example, they are forbidden from opening a network connection to >> anywhere other than their source domain. Allowing you to replace your >> own applet to run in another's context domain is a recipe for security >> holes; in principle, you could allow the server to list other applets >> that can run in their domain (in similarity to how CORS stuff works), >> but that is essentially the same level of changes needed as hosting >> another copy of the applet. >> >> -- > Josuha, That's not how his name is spelled. > I understand that this is a security risk - if used in production > systems. But as a development tool, it's invaluable. As a development tool, a copy of the server environment is what's invaluable. What you ask is unnecessary and harmful. Something smells bad about your setup, horos22. You can't fake a development environment with heinous security hacks. What's actually going on? Come on, you can tell us. We won't snitch. > Consider protocol development. When I develop a ssh client, or mysql > client, or iscsi client, I don't need to make a new server instance or > somehow have to duplicate the server environment. The tests are Yes, you do. You are so wrong here. Of course you work in a duplicate environment. Development directly in the production environment is stupid, risky, unprofessional, idiotic, untoward, and really not recommended. > *client* driven. I change the client, and as long as the protocol > works, I can make whatever changes I want behind the scenes without > touching *anything* except the source code on the client. But you aren't asking to change a *client* [sic]. You're asking to change a server. But you don't want to do it safely, properly or ethically. Doesn't smell right, in the sense that Stilton cheese left outin late August in El Paso doesn't smell right. > Suppose you had 10 developers working on an applet. What are they > supposed to do? Duplicate the parent environment 10 separate times? YES! Duhhh. Why not? Why do you seem so frelling horrified by that perfectly sensible and common and proper approach? Hm? > What if the central environment changes? Do you then need to propogate > those changes to all 10 daughter environments? what if two people want > to merge changes or then test their changes our versus production > data? Do they need then to impact production by having their applet > hosted in the production world? > > This makes no sense. I can't believe there isn't something out there What you suggest makes no sense, and is harmful. > to do this. Unix has a permissions system and its invaluable - you and was not developed on the production box. > open up the permissions on things to do development, get stuff done, > and then close down the permissions when you ship. There's gotta be a > way to overcome the extreme development penalty inherent in cloning That's rich, "extreme development penalty" for the safest, most common and proper way to go. Hahaha. ROTFLMAO. > environments here; elsewise I feel damn sorry for the java [sic] applet > developer.. Get over it. I certainly don't feel sorry for you. Do start attributing citations, please. Have you not posted to Usenet before, horos22? -- Lew Honi soit qui mal y pense. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg
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