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why use maven to deploy a servlet?

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  why use maven to deploy a servlet? www <xsli2@yahoo.com> - 2014-07-25 08:45 -0700
    Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-25 19:36 +0200
      Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-25 21:16 -0400
        Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-26 14:31 +0200
          Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-26 10:07 -0400
      Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? Donkey Hottie <donkey@fredriksson.dy.fi> - 2014-08-02 21:54 +0300
    Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-07-26 19:24 +0100
      Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-26 21:34 +0200
        Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-07-26 21:11 +0100
          Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-27 00:32 +0200
            Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-07-27 08:28 +0100
              Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-28 23:06 +0200
                Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? lipska the kat <lipskathekat@example.com> - 2014-07-29 08:42 +0100
    Re: why use maven to deploy a servlet? Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-26 21:41 +0200

#29316 — why use maven to deploy a servlet?

Hi:
I am learning Java Servlet using Eclipse(Java EE). Normally, after I finish writing the servlet code, I just export to a WAR file by a couple clicks and deploy it to Tomcat. However, I saw some people using maven doing it. I intend to take the opportunity to learn maven. However, I don't get why bothering using maven. It seems a drag.

http://sureshatt.blogspot.com/2011/05/eclipse-maven-dynamic-web-project.html

Thank you.

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#29320

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:45:06 -0700 (PDT), www wrote:

> I am learning Java Servlet using Eclipse(Java EE). Normally, after I finish writing the servlet code, I just export to a WAR file by a couple clicks and deploy it to Tomcat. However, I saw some people using maven doing it. I intend to take the opportunity to learn maven. However, I don't get why bothering using maven. It seems a drag.

Even somewhat professional run projects don't have people build from
whatever IDE they happen to have installed at the time, but instead build
(and deploy) their artifacts in a reproducible and controlled environment. 

Maven has a very clearly defined behaviour - you can tell users/developers
to do "mvn package deploy", instead of "Download Eclipse version 3.2 (but
not the 64 bit version), go to Settings, Preference, tick setting A,
uncheck setting B, then add a new server in the server view, select Tomcat
(but only version 6!!!), download the patch for the web plugin, ...".

Workstations and IDE installations tend to break or change at the most
inopportune moments, which is why one aims to make the deployment process
as deterministic and simple as possible; for my projects that's usually
something like:

sudo apt-get install java git maven
git clone giturl
mvn clean compile package deploy:deploy

which should work on a fresh Debian server with no further need for
fiddling or configuring things.

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

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#29330

On 7/25/2014 1:36 PM, Joerg Meier wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:45:06 -0700 (PDT), www wrote:
>> I am learning Java Servlet using Eclipse(Java EE). Normally, after I finish writing the servlet code, I just export to a WAR file by a couple clicks and deploy it to Tomcat. However, I saw some people using maven doing it. I intend to take the opportunity to learn maven. However, I don't get why bothering using maven. It seems a drag.
>
> Even somewhat professional run projects don't have people build from
> whatever IDE they happen to have installed at the time, but instead build
> (and deploy) their artifacts in a reproducible and controlled environment.

I assume that you mean:

unprofessional       somewhat professional      fully professional
      IDE build    |                     non IDE build

Arne

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#29334

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 21:16:48 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

> On 7/25/2014 1:36 PM, Joerg Meier wrote:
>> On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:45:06 -0700 (PDT), www wrote:
>>> I am learning Java Servlet using Eclipse(Java EE). Normally, after I finish writing the servlet code, I just export to a WAR file by a couple clicks and deploy it to Tomcat. However, I saw some people using maven doing it. I intend to take the opportunity to learn maven. However, I don't get why bothering using maven. It seems a drag.
>> Even somewhat professional run projects don't have people build from
>> whatever IDE they happen to have installed at the time, but instead build
>> (and deploy) their artifacts in a reproducible and controlled environment.
> I assume that you mean:

> unprofessional       somewhat professional      fully professional
>       IDE build    |                     non IDE build

Yes. Is that not what I said ?

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

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#29335

On 7/26/2014 8:31 AM, Joerg Meier wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 21:16:48 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> On 7/25/2014 1:36 PM, Joerg Meier wrote:
>>> On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:45:06 -0700 (PDT), www wrote:
>>>> I am learning Java Servlet using Eclipse(Java EE). Normally, after I finish writing the servlet code, I just export to a WAR file by a couple clicks and deploy it to Tomcat. However, I saw some people using maven doing it. I intend to take the opportunity to learn maven. However, I don't get why bothering using maven. It seems a drag.
>>> Even somewhat professional run projects don't have people build from
>>> whatever IDE they happen to have installed at the time, but instead build
>>> (and deploy) their artifacts in a reproducible and controlled environment.
>> I assume that you mean:
>
>> unprofessional       somewhat professional      fully professional
>>        IDE build    |                     non IDE build
>
> Yes. Is that not what I said ?

With the wording it could have been:

unprofessional       somewhat professional      fully professional
            non IDE build                     |      IDE build

That is not how it is, but sometimes it is good to be very clear.

Arne

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#29509

Gradle is better and does all what maven does but less XML config.

At least Netbeans supports both Maven and Gradle and the project can be
deployed fine.

The reason to use Maven or Gradle is that they provide the dependencies
more professional way ;)

-- 

"I wonder", he said to himself, "what's in a book while it's closed.  Oh, I
know it's full of letters printed on paper, but all the same, something must
be happening, because as soon as I open it, there's a whole story with
people
I don't know yet and all kinds of adventures and battles."
		-- Bastian B. Bux

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#29347

On 25/07/14 16:45, www wrote:
> Hi:
> I am learning Java Servlet using Eclipse(Java EE). Normally, after I finish writing the servlet code, I just export to a WAR file by a couple clicks and deploy it to Tomcat. However, I saw some people using maven doing it. I intend to take the opportunity to learn maven. However, I don't get why bothering using maven. It seems a drag.
>
> http://sureshatt.blogspot.com/2011/05/eclipse-maven-dynamic-web-project.html
>
> Thank you.
>

Well now let's see.
So far we have 'use maven because an IDE is unprofessional'

This is complete bollocks of course and absolutely typical of the
kind of rubbish spouted by 'consultants' trying to justify their hourly 
rate (for example).

The 'professional' way to do it is to use some source control mechanism 
(I use GIT) and have a build master. The build master is responsible for 
maintaining and deploying the test, staging and live versions of your 
application. If he wants to use maven then great, Ant does the job 
without all the network traffic nonsense you get with maven.

To say that using an IDE to package and deploy your application is 
unprofessional is also an example of the the usual kind of crap and 
misinformation often spouted by the 'experts' on this list.

Use what ever works for you and save your energy to focus on the quality 
of your code ... *much* more important that using the latest greatest tool.

Just my 2 euros worth.

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer,
treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

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#29348

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 19:24:45 +0100, lipska the kat wrote:

> On 25/07/14 16:45, www wrote:
>> Hi:
>> I am learning Java Servlet using Eclipse(Java EE). Normally, after I finish writing the servlet code, I just export to a WAR file by a couple clicks and deploy it to Tomcat. However, I saw some people using maven doing it. I intend to take the opportunity to learn maven. However, I don't get why bothering using maven. It seems a drag.

>> http://sureshatt.blogspot.com/2011/05/eclipse-maven-dynamic-web-project.html
> Well now let's see.
> So far we have 'use maven because an IDE is unprofessional'

Good job, you managed to almost read through the entire first sentence of
my first post. It looks like your ADHD is improving.

> The 'professional' way to do it is to use some source control mechanism 
> (I use GIT) and have a build master. The build master is responsible for 
> maintaining and deploying the test, staging and live versions of your 
> application. If he wants to use maven then great, Ant does the job 
> without all the network traffic nonsense you get with maven.

"Hire someone" is not really a good response "Why do people use x". It
neither answers the question nor is in any way helpful to figure out the
answer.

> To say that using an IDE to package and deploy your application is 
> unprofessional is also an example of the the usual kind of crap and 
> misinformation often spouted by the 'experts' on this list.

Tall words with nothing to back them up. I gave a host of reasons as to why
that is a bad idea. You have not responded to a single one, but instead
merely made a statement that was quite clearly meant as a personal insult.

> Use what ever works for you and save your energy to focus on the quality 
> of your code ... *much* more important that using the latest greatest tool.

Luckily, nobody advertised using the latest greatest, but instead
advertising a 12 year old proven tool that has been considered a stable of
a good development stack for almost a decade and has unilateral support
through the entire Java ecosystem.

I don't know what prompted your hostile and aggressive post. I don't feel
like I did anything to prompt your ire.

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

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#29351

On 26/07/14 20:34, Joerg Meier wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 19:24:45 +0100, lipska the kat wrote:
>
<
>> Well now let's see.
>> So far we have 'use maven because an IDE is unprofessional'
>
> Good job, you managed to almost read through the entire first sentence of
> my first post. It looks like your ADHD is improving.

That is a personal insult.

 > Tall words with nothing to back them up.

Did you or did you not imply/infer/suggest that using an IDE is 
unprofessional?

If you did then this is disinformation IMHO

> I don't know what prompted your hostile and aggressive post. I don't feel
> like I did anything to prompt your ire.

Jeez, it's nothing personal. I'm sure you are quite correct about maven. 
What I object to is the patently absurd suggestion that using an IDE for 
packaging and deploying your application is unprofessional.

An Ant script for deploying to a remote Tomcat instance using Tomcats 
own Ant tasks has served me and countless other competent developers for 
just as many years as maven has been around.

To clear this up: I don't object to your maven evangelism just the 
implication that if you do Java and don't do maven then you are in some 
way inferior to maven users.

Does that clear things up?


-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer,
treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

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#29356

On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:11:51 +0100, lipska the kat wrote:

> On 26/07/14 20:34, Joerg Meier wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 19:24:45 +0100, lipska the kat wrote:
>>> Well now let's see.
>>> So far we have 'use maven because an IDE is unprofessional'
>> Good job, you managed to almost read through the entire first sentence of
>> my first post. It looks like your ADHD is improving.
> That is a personal insult.

After you called what I said "complete bollocks" and "rubbish" and
insinuated that I was basically a fraud talking big to trick people into
paying me more ? You betcha.

>  > Tall words with nothing to back them up.
> Did you or did you not imply/infer/suggest that using an IDE is 
> unprofessional?

I did not, that would be insane. I did however outright say that using an
IDE as your only build system was not the behaviour of a professional
software producer, and I stand by that.

> If you did then this is disinformation IMHO

I disagree, and I have outlined multiple reasons as to why.

>> I don't know what prompted your hostile and aggressive post. I don't feel
>> like I did anything to prompt your ire.
> Jeez, it's nothing personal. I'm sure you are quite correct about maven. 
> What I object to is the patently absurd suggestion that using an IDE for 
> packaging and deploying your application is unprofessional.

I have yet to hear a reason why that wouldn't be the case, while I have
given reasons as to why I think it is.

> An Ant script for deploying to a remote Tomcat instance using Tomcats 
> own Ant tasks has served me and countless other competent developers for 
> just as many years as maven has been around.

So you do use a build system yourself, confusing me even more as to why you
are arguing against them. Surely you don't consider using Ant to build
and/or deploy as using your IDE ?

> To clear this up: I don't object to your maven evangelism just the 
> implication that if you do Java and don't do maven then you are in some 
> way inferior to maven users.

If you do Java, act like you are a professional software developer and have
your current IDE settings as your only build system, then yeah, you are
inferiour to Maven users, as well as Ant users and Gradle users, and users
of the various other build systems.

The only reason I talked about Maven is because the OP specifically asked
for Maven, and what is more, specifically asked why people use Maven. To
paint me as some sort of fanatic trying to convert people just because I
responded to the OP with the exact information he asked for seems hardly
fair.

> Does that clear things up?

Not really.

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

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#29359

On 26/07/14 23:32, Joerg Meier wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:11:51 +0100, lipska the kat wrote:

<snip>

>> Did you or did you not imply/infer/suggest that using an IDE is
>> unprofessional?
>
> I did not, that would be insane. I did however outright say that using an
> IDE as your only build system was not the behaviour of a professional
> software producer, and I stand by that.

You said

<quote>
Even somewhat professional run projects don't have people build from
whatever IDE they happen to have installed at the time, but instead 
build(and deploy) their artifacts in a reproducible and controlled 
environment.
</quote>

<snip>

> I have yet to hear a reason why that wouldn't be the case, while I have
> given reasons as to why I think it is.
>
>> An Ant script for deploying to a remote Tomcat instance using Tomcats
>> own Ant tasks has served me and countless other competent developers for
>> just as many years as maven has been around.
>
> So you do use a build system yourself, confusing me even more as to why you
> are arguing against them. Surely you don't consider using Ant to build
> and/or deploy as using your IDE ?

You are putting words into my mouth.

I'm not arguing against build systems (plural) ... point me to the place 
where I argue against build systems in general.

I'm arguing against your assertion that using an IDE to build your 
system is not professional and yes, running Ant scripts from within an 
IDE is very common, I'm surprised you haven't heard of it.

That's what an IDE is, it's an 'Integrated' Development  Environment.

>> To clear this up: I don't object to your maven evangelism just the
>> implication that if you do Java and don't do maven then you are in some
>> way inferior to maven users.
>
> If you do Java, act like you are a professional software developer and have
> your current IDE settings as your only build system, then yeah, you are
> inferiour to Maven users,

Fascinating.


-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer,
treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

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#29410

On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 08:28:29 +0100, lipska the kat wrote:

> On 26/07/14 23:32, Joerg Meier wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Jul 2014 21:11:51 +0100, lipska the kat wrote:
> <snip>
>>> Did you or did you not imply/infer/suggest that using an IDE is
>>> unprofessional?
>> I did not, that would be insane. I did however outright say that using an
>> IDE as your only build system was not the behaviour of a professional
>> software producer, and I stand by that.
> You said

> <quote>
> Even somewhat professional run projects don't have people build from
> whatever IDE they happen to have installed at the time, but instead 
> build(and deploy) their artifacts in a reproducible and controlled 
> environment.
> </quote>

> <snip>

Yes. In what way do you read that to say "if you use an IDE you are
unprofessional" ?

>>> An Ant script for deploying to a remote Tomcat instance using Tomcats
>>> own Ant tasks has served me and countless other competent developers for
>>> just as many years as maven has been around.
>> So you do use a build system yourself, confusing me even more as to why you
>> are arguing against them. Surely you don't consider using Ant to build
>> and/or deploy as using your IDE ?
> You are putting words into my mouth.

They are the only interpretation of your words I can come up with. You
called me out for saying using a build system is what professional projects
do. Then you say you use a build system yourself.

> I'm not arguing against build systems (plural) ... point me to the place 
> where I argue against build systems in general.

In your initial post, you acted like my statement that one should use a
build system was wrong. Are you now seriously going to twist that into
saying you meant only using Maven was wrong, and starting Ant from your IDE
was 'using your IDE to build' ?

> I'm arguing against your assertion that using an IDE to build your 
> system is not professional and yes, running Ant scripts from within an 
> IDE is very common, I'm surprised you haven't heard of it.

I'm surprised you'd come to such a weird conclusion.

> That's what an IDE is, it's an 'Integrated' Development  Environment.

Yes, and IDEs come with their own build systems. Which are not a very
professional way to build your artifacts. A much better way to do it is to
use Ant, Maven, Gradle or whatever you like. All those proper build systems
have good IDE integration, so one doesn't have to use the IDEs own build
system.

Let's stop bullshitting around: are you actually going to act like by
saying "using an IDE to package and deploy your application" you didn't
mean to use an IDE to package and deploy, but to use an IDE to start an
external build tool, like Ant, Maven or Gradle, exactly what I have been
advising all along ?

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

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#29423

On 28/07/14 22:06, Joerg Meier wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Jul 2014 08:28:29 +0100, lipska the kat wrote:

<snip>

> Let's stop bullshitting around: are you actually going to act like by
> saying "using an IDE to package and deploy your application" you didn't
> mean to use an IDE to package and deploy, but to use an IDE to start an
> external build tool, like Ant, Maven or Gradle, exactly what I have been
> advising all along ?

I agree, let's cut to the chase

Our time traveling friend Arne posted the following.

=============== Arne post =============

I assume that you mean:

unprofessional       somewhat professional      fully professional
     IDE build    |                     *non IDE build*


============ Your response ============

Yes. Is that not what I said ?

=======================================

You follow this up with

sudo apt-get install java git maven
git clone giturl
mvn clean compile package deploy:deploy

No sign of an IDE there is there?
looks like a sequence of bash commands.
I can do bash, I can build, package and deploy my application
using a bash shell script. I can also manage dependencies with rsync
but why should I, I have an IDE to take the pain away.


Now you appear to be saying it IS OK to 'use your IDE' to kick off an 
external build tool.


I see, well thanks for clearing that up.
I don't use Maven myself but I don't feel inferior I'm afraid
... am I missing something, maybe I'm not 'professional' enough
to realize that I'm doing it wrong.

Anyway, it's been ... fun in a masochistic sort of way.

I'll let you have the last word as I don't really see any
profit for either of us in carrying this on.

Best regards
Lipska the Kat©


-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer,
treacherous feline and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun
GNU/Linux user #560883 - http://www.linuxcounter.net

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#29349

On Fri, 25 Jul 2014 08:45:06 -0700 (PDT), www wrote:

> I am learning Java Servlet using Eclipse(Java EE). Normally, after I finish writing the servlet code, I just export to a WAR file by a couple clicks and deploy it to Tomcat. However, I saw some people using maven doing it. I intend to take the opportunity to learn maven. However, I don't get why bothering using maven. It seems a drag.

What I forgot to mention the other day, and what is one of the core
features of Maven, and certainly one of the most attractive ones, is
dependency management.

That I forgot to mention it is quite telling - what can often develop into
a nightmare of copied jar files, directories full of differently named
versions, and spreadsheets about what dependency is needed by another
dependency, and what jars to include at compile time, or run time, or both,
commonly referred to as "dependency hell" is something that Maven just does
for you.

It does it so well that I didn't even remember that that was ever an issue.
If I need a library in my project, I just copy 4-6 lines into my pom.xml
configuration file (usually available on the libraries website), and Maven
does the rest for me - search for it on the net, download it, place it
whereever it belongs, and when I make a jar or war, puts it into the jar or
war (or not, depending on whether it's needed).

And what is more: it also deals with all the dependencies THAT library may
have - no longer need I worry about whether hibernate-core.jar needs
apache-logging.jar, or maybe a specific version of log4j2.

Naturally, that is less of a concern if you already have a complex
application set up the way you want it, so it seems less like a fantastic
feature and more like a burden.

Liebe Gruesse,
		Joerg

-- 
Ich lese meine Emails nicht, replies to Email bleiben also leider
ungelesen.

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