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Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly

From Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly
Date 2014-07-03 08:54 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <lp3naf$f0b$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <04c1fe18-b023-4f45-8fa3-3c2f78cba69e@googlegroups.com> <lp1hd2$gb6$1@dont-email.me> <53b4ae7d$0$298$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <lp2h1b$pi3$1@dont-email.me> <00019c29-614d-4cfc-aca8-4606bee766dd@googlegroups.com>

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On 7/3/2014 8:01 AM, w.tom.adams@gmail.com wrote:
> One question I have is this:  Why is Javascript not as vulnerable as
> Java Applets?

There are two reasons why JavaScript could be perceived to be less 
vulnerable:
1. Most of the code is provided as part of the web browser, so security 
holes will naturally be fixed as the browser is updated, instead of 
waiting for another program to update.

2. The Java applet model (to me, at least) is basically taking a full 
platform library and ensconcing it in a sandbox by turning off every API 
that is suspicious. The JS model is largely creating the APIs from 
scratch with the browser sandbox in mind--in effect, Java tries to 
blacklist insecure things while JS tries to whitelist secure things. 
Whitelist are inherently more secure than blacklists.

> The history seems to be that Java Applets were exploited big-time by
> hackers and apparently neglected by Oracle and Cert had a tantrum and
> now they are not a viable option.  But if I converted to Javascript,
> could the same thing happen to Javascript.

Oracle really dropped the ball on applets. It seems that they decided 
that trying to provide (and maintain) a security sandbox was too hard, 
and instead wanted to merely require signing, which from a security 
standpoint, is like asking the code "are you secure?"--history has shown 
that users routinely ignore the contents of security dialogs, so giving 
a basically unrestricted sandbox to anyone who can prove authenticity 
(i.e., pay a few dollars to a CA) makes any claims of security really 
laughable.

Could it happen to JavaScript as well? Possibly, but rather unlikely in 
my estimation. There is strong demand for client-side interactivity. 
Given the resistance to major players to using any other language than 
JS builtin to the browser, JS looks set to basically be the necessary 
client-side interactive language for at least a decade to come.

> Of course it also seems that Java Applets declined relative to
> Javascript for other reason, not exactly sure why that happened.

Java applets were largely killed by Flash, I think, not JavaScript. By 
the late 2000's, the only Java applets I generally saw were the simple 
applets used to illustrate something (e.g., this is how an AVL tree 
balances)--most of the interactive multimedia used Flash.

I think Java fell into disfavor in large measure because it is very slow 
to startup, and also the unsigned sandbox may have been a little too 
tight for some people. Flash fell into disfavor because it is unstable 
(I have more issues due to Flash than I do due to the browser--and I run 
bleeding-edge nightlies). Silverlight was born in the dying days of 
plugins and never had much favor to begin with. :-)

-- 
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth

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Thread

How to make my java applets more user friendly w.tom.adams@gmail.com - 2014-07-02 10:41 -0700
  Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-02 14:01 -0400
    Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-02 21:14 -0400
      Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-02 23:00 -0400
        Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly w.tom.adams@gmail.com - 2014-07-03 06:01 -0700
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-03 08:54 -0500
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-06 12:20 -0400
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-03 10:27 -0400
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2014-07-11 21:30 +0000
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-11 18:22 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2014-07-12 23:19 +0000
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-11 17:34 -0500
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2014-07-12 23:21 +0000
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-06 12:23 -0400
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-08 09:59 +0000
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-10 14:28 -0400
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-08 12:37 +0200
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2014-07-09 19:33 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-09 20:01 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2014-07-10 20:24 +0200
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-10 14:30 -0400
        Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-06 12:12 -0400
      Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-05 16:24 -0700
  Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2014-07-03 06:37 +0800
    Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly w.tom.adams@gmail.com - 2014-07-03 06:07 -0700
      Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly w.tom.adams@gmail.com - 2014-07-03 06:13 -0700
        News Reader (was: Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly) Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2014-07-04 08:02 +0200
  Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-03 21:07 +0200
    Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Tom Adams <tadamsmar@gmail.com> - 2014-07-04 02:55 -0700
      Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-06 12:26 -0400
        Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2014-07-11 19:43 -0500
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-11 20:58 -0400
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-11 22:29 -0400
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-11 23:01 -0400
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-12 11:00 -0400
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2014-07-11 23:13 -0500
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-12 11:07 -0400
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-07-14 13:11 +0100
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> - 2014-07-14 18:36 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2014-07-14 19:32 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-08-19 16:09 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-08-19 16:03 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-08-19 22:18 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-08-19 16:43 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2014-08-20 06:50 +0800
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-08-19 19:01 -0400
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-12 13:47 +0000
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-12 11:08 -0400
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-13 00:36 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-12 21:03 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-13 01:24 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-08-19 16:12 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-08-19 21:23 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-08-20 10:31 -0700
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2014-08-21 06:17 +0800
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 22:46 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 23:23 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-15 10:49 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 13:13 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-08-19 16:21 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-08-19 21:27 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-08-20 10:32 -0700
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-08-19 16:17 -0400
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-12 11:04 -0400
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2014-07-13 07:30 +0800
        Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Tom Adams <tadamsmar@gmail.com> - 2014-07-13 03:15 -0700
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-13 10:49 -0400
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-13 10:55 -0400
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly w.tom.adams@gmail.com - 2014-07-14 06:48 -0700
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Tom Adams <tadamsmar@gmail.com> - 2014-07-15 08:16 -0700
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Tom Adams <tadamsmar@gmail.com> - 2014-08-15 06:29 -0700
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Tom Adams <tadamsmar@gmail.com> - 2014-07-13 15:54 -0700
  Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-05 16:20 -0700
  Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2014-07-05 16:22 -0700
  Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-07 10:28 +0200
    Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2014-07-07 17:29 +0800
      Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-07 11:54 +0200
        Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-08 10:01 +0000
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-08 12:21 +0200
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-08 11:02 +0000
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-08 13:13 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-08 12:27 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-08 14:28 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-08 12:36 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Eric Sosman <esosman@comcast-dot-net.invalid> - 2014-07-08 08:58 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-08 13:21 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-09 13:11 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-09 11:48 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2014-07-10 14:10 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly castal00n <casta-.l00n_3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 12:22 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 15:57 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2014-07-10 18:09 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 16:32 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2014-07-10 19:20 +0200
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 17:32 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2014-07-11 21:31 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-11 22:45 +0000
                [OT] posting histories? (was Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2014-07-12 23:24 +0000
                Re: [OT] posting histories? (was Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly) Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-13 00:38 +0000
                Re: [OT] posting histories? (was Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 22:44 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-10 14:41 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 18:50 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-10 19:44 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 23:50 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-10 14:34 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-10 14:33 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 18:40 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-10 14:45 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 18:51 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-10 17:14 -0500
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 22:20 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-10 18:47 -0500
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 23:51 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-10 19:46 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Ĕess stone <jess.st0ne@gmail.com> - 2014-07-10 23:54 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-07-14 13:32 +0100
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-14 18:37 +0000
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-08 09:00 -0500
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-08 21:40 +0200
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2014-07-08 15:03 -0500
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2014-07-09 00:28 +0200
          Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-07-10 14:31 -0400
            Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2014-07-11 12:33 +0200
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-07-11 11:01 +0000
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2014-07-11 12:15 -0700
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2014-08-19 16:27 -0400
                Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly thinbluernime <thinbluernime3@gmail.com> - 2014-08-19 21:29 +0000
              Re: How to make my java applets more user friendly "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2014-07-14 13:39 +0100

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