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Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes)

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Am 10.06.2013 03:28, schrieb Arved Sandstrom:
> On 06/09/2013 08:27 PM, Sebastian wrote:
>> Am 05.06.2013 22:43, schrieb Arved Sandstrom:
>>> Me I wouldn't re-invent the wheel in this case. Implementing this type
>>> of laziness is not that straightforward.
>>>
>>> And why not use interop between JVM languages? This way you leverage the
>>> strengths. I usually have Java as the main language, but for some
>>> functionality in some apps I use Scala. Maintainability goes up, for
>>> starters, as does reliability and speed of development.
>>>
>>> It's all ultimately JVM bytecode.
>>>
>>> AHS
>>>
>>
>> It's not everyone has a management who sees it this way. In our large
>> project (we're talking several hundred developers and a really
>> complicated build process), I don't see anyone advocating more
>> complexity by adding another compiler and language.
>>
[snip]
>>
>> private LazyConsList<Integer> sieve(FilterableConsList<Integer> s) {
>> Integer p = s.head();
>> return cons(p, () -> sieve(s.tail().filter(x -> x % p != 0)));
>> }
>>
>> Now I think that looks pretty neat (and almost exactly like the
>> corresponding Scala code.)
>>
>> -- Sebastian
>>
> It does look reasonably nice, I must admit. :-) I'll have to return to
> Java 8 experiments and I think I'll start with a variant of your code.

If you wish, just send me an email and I'll send you my code
privately as a point of departure. I don't wish to put it on
a public site, however.

[snip]
> or architectures that they can't find enough qualified people for. So
> long as the entirely new stuff is based on Java I guess the working
> assumption - hopelessly naive and ludicrous - is that any Java developer
> will get it right away.

That is very often true. And because of that mind-set, often not enough
time is set aside for developers to test new technology in a project
context, build prototypes etc.
>
> I am fortunate enough as a very senior consultant (very senior means
> that you can converse about having used punched cards :-)) to mostly
> work gigs now where I can dictate architecture, design and
> implementation. I also now - where I can - avoid projects that involve
> more than one architect/designer (who is also a skilled coder *), 2-3
> developers, a great BA, and a good QA/QC person. I've found that a
> skilled team this size outperforms a 20-30 person team easily, 9 times
> out of 10.

I have also found that small focused groups of up to 8 people can
achieve amazing results when protected from outside interference.
Whenever possible, we try to split up in teams about that size.
Architecture and QA are usually orthogonal to that.

> More specifically, what really is the complexity of introducing some
> Clojure or Scala compared to requiring that your developers master new
> Java APIs?

It's not just the amount of complexity, its also where it lies - just
development, or also build process, configuration management, deployment
infrastructure setup (conventions for IDE settings etc.) If it were just
learning a new language - most developers love to do that.

I've seen considerably more project problems due to imperfect
> understanding of JPA 1.x/2.x, or IO/NIO, or web services and WSDLs, or
> RMI, or concurrency - all Java - than any problems caused by
> implementing logic in a language better suited for it than Java.

Quite true. If you don't know hat you're doing, you're bound to screw up
in any language. With some things, however, it's not just API knowledge.
Concurrency, for example, I believe to be an intrinsically difficult
subject.

> AHS
>
> * Not usually the case in my experience. I have no idea what process
> anoints a majority of the "architects" out there, but it's not
> programming skills.

Do you know Simon Brown's work in progress "Software Architecture for 
Developers"? (https://leanpub.com/software-architecture-for-developers)
Among other things it's about how coding is part of architecture, and
what is "just enough" design. Entertaining read.

-- Sebastian

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Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-04 23:54 +0200
  Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-04 19:35 -0300
    Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-05 09:03 +0200
      Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-05 09:44 +0200
        Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-05 17:43 -0300
          Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-10 01:27 +0200
            Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-09 22:28 -0300
              Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-10 19:43 +0200
                Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-06-10 13:18 -0700
                Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-11 23:27 +0200
                Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-12 10:32 +0200
                Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-12 14:37 +0200
                Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-06-12 12:05 -0700
                Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-12 22:53 +0200
                Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-06-15 15:18 -0700
                Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-16 22:52 +0200
                Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-06-16 21:56 -0300
                Re: Lazy primes with Java 8 (was Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes) Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-18 23:18 +0200
  Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-06-04 17:24 -0700
    Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-05 09:09 +0200
      Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-06-05 09:45 -0700
        Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-05 21:32 +0200
    Re: Java 8 Streams and Eratosthenes Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-06-05 09:47 +0200

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