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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #26896
| From | Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.java.programmer |
| Subject | Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? |
| References | (16 earlier) <529d9961$0$15960$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl> <03a09ab3-7ae1-4b77-a2b8-def9ff166c8e@googlegroups.com> <l7lgfh$c44$2@dont-email.me> <cPTqu.662356$VX2.605177@fx31.iad> <bh3ftfFgc1tU1@mid.individual.net> |
| Message-ID | <jR0ru.18$WJ7.12@fx31.iad> (permalink) |
| Organization | Public Usenet Newsgroup Access |
| Date | 2013-12-14 13:47 -0400 |
On 12/14/2013 12:39 PM, Robert Klemme wrote: > On 14.12.2013 08:31, Arved Sandstrom wrote: > >> Truth be told, I never heard of software "architects" back in the '70's >> or '80's, it only started showing up as a term in the '90's. Even in the >> '90's I don't recall people describing themselves as architects so much >> as there were folks who started talking about software architecture. > > ACK. > >> All of a sudden with the original dot com boom we started seeing >> "architects". That's less than 15 years ago. It's been astonishing to me >> how you can actually become an architect with just 5 or 10 years under >> your belt, but apparently that's readily achievable. Given the fact that >> we've got dozens of conferences and dozens of websites where hundreds of >> youngsters with 2-5 years software experience can posture as architects, >> either I'm dated or my standards are too high. > > Yes, indeed. Another thing I find quite irritating is the verve with > which people advertise the next new language / framework / project > management technique etc. on these conferences. There's a lot of good > ideas around but nobody will master any of these if they jump on the > next bandwagon at the frequency that they come round the corner. I have fairly typical online subscriptions and professional reading habits: DDJ, CodeProject, InfoQ, ACM TechNews, ODN, The ServerSide, LinkedIn groups, to name a few that are reasonably general. I've noted the same thing - how the hell does anyone keep track of all this stuff? Agile was supposed to supplant waterfall and spiral and all that, but now apparently agile often fails at scale, so lean is the way to go. Build system A for language X is obviously obsolete because it's already 6 months old, so someone had to invent build system B. There may be ten thousand *.js libraries out there now, and God only knows what they all do. I've evidently really missed the boat by not being up to speed on asynchronous event-driven functional reactive programming. I've also noticed that after the few years that I generally ignored NoSQL that now there's a backlash that is talking up relational again - good to know, RDBMS's worked just fine for me all along. There's plenty of innovation and disruption alright. So much so that we're no further ahead in solving core problems than, say, 20 or 30 years ago. >> Martin, I gave up on UML several years ago. That and all other graphical >> modeling languages. All of that graphical stuff seriously wastes time - >> competent developers understand text better, and God forbid if managers >> see UML. Plain English, pseudocode, and sketches on paper work a lot >> better. > > UML works great on paper. I do agree with you when it comes to > graphical modeling. That is a waste of time IMHO. But even for paper > and whiteboard it's good to have a common graphical syntax - even if > you just use a small portion of UML for that. Ranting aside, I don't completely discount the use of UML or another graphical language. A lot of the modeling graphics I've seen (UML and otherwise) have made me question the wisdom of the adage "a picture is worth a thousand words", but there's certainly important uses for these drawings. The core problem with UML or other modeling languages is not the constructs they make available, it's the fact that many people feel the need to express every detail of their design using UML etc. I'm not interested in seeing a class diagram that shows every private field for every class, nor sequence diagrams for mundane interactions. The graphics should express key information, not all information. >> There actually is a role for architects. It's just that 95 percent of >> the people who advertise themselves as such couldn't code their way out >> of a piss-soaked paper bag, let alone comprehend a system. > > I can't comment on the 95% but I have certainly seen this phenomenon. > > Kind regards > > robert > Ahh, I pulled 95% out of my hat. Based on empirical evidence ( personal knowledge of hundreds of IT types over the decades), I might not be so harsh, but I'd estimate that well over three-quarters of self-titled software architects simply do not have the seniority nor experience to possibly be one [1], and of those people that do ostensibly have the seniority and the experience (on paper), a large majority prove not to be adequate. AHS 1. Not always a person's fault. One's employer frequently indulges in title inflation. I'm familiar with quite a few local software consultancies where practically everyone is a "senior consultant" - no matter that you're just a junior coder for hire who's got 2 years experience... -- When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
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Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2013-11-25 03:09 -0800
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-11-25 12:46 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2013-11-25 05:20 -0800
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-11-25 22:10 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2013-11-25 14:34 -0800
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-11-26 08:54 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-11-26 00:29 -0800
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-11-26 15:29 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-11-26 21:55 -0500
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-11-27 08:59 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-11-27 10:41 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-11-28 12:48 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? leif.roar@invalid.com (Leif Roar Moldskred) - 2013-11-28 16:28 -0600
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-11-29 00:03 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2013-11-29 00:41 -0800
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-11-29 12:05 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2013-11-29 03:51 -0800
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-11-29 16:44 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-11-29 16:48 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-02 06:33 -0800
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-02 15:50 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-02 16:26 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-02 21:07 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-02 23:33 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? markspace <markspace@nospam.nospam> - 2013-12-02 18:07 -0800
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-03 08:59 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2013-12-03 00:14 -0800
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Silvio <silvio@internet.com> - 2013-12-03 09:42 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2013-12-03 02:58 -0800
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-12-03 20:55 +0000
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Saxo <jeti789@web.de> - 2013-12-04 00:12 -0800
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-14 03:31 -0400
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-12-14 10:11 +0000
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-14 17:39 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2013-12-14 16:52 +0000
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-14 13:47 -0400
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-12-14 23:55 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Sebastian <news@seyweiler.dyndns.org> - 2013-12-04 10:39 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-12-14 03:56 -0400
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2013-11-26 21:28 +0000
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-11-26 23:29 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2013-11-27 05:13 +0000
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-11-27 22:57 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2013-11-29 23:22 +0000
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2013-11-30 14:41 +0100
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-11-30 16:49 -0600
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-11-27 23:07 -0600
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2013-11-28 23:41 +0000
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-11-29 00:08 -0600
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2013-11-29 16:49 +0000
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-11-30 16:46 -0600
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2014-02-14 15:36 +0000
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? v_borchert@despammed.com (Volker Borchert) - 2013-11-29 23:37 +0000
Re: Alternatives languages on the JVM: which one or is there no alternative? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2013-11-28 12:50 -0800
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