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forth databases

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  forth databases the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-12-14 19:54 -0800
    Re: forth databases Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-15 08:55 -0800
      Re: forth databases beeflo <beeflobill@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 10:15 -0800
    Re: forth databases Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-15 10:03 -0800
      Re: forth databases hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2014-12-15 22:26 -0800
        Re: forth databases the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 21:19 -0800
      Re: forth databases the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 21:09 -0800
    Re: forth databases visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-12-15 12:57 -0800
      Re: forth databases "Rod Pemberton" <buzz@notnotnontnooatno.cmm> - 2014-12-15 18:29 -0500
        Re: forth databases Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-12-15 15:51 -0800
          Re: forth databases the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 21:28 -0800
        Re: forth databases visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-12-15 17:45 -0800
        Re: forth databases the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 21:24 -0800
      Re: forth databases Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-12-17 04:10 +0200
        Re: forth databases mix <mix@test.net> - 2014-12-17 06:26 +0000
          Re: forth databases "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-12-16 22:13 -1000
        Re: forth databases stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-12-17 15:33 +0000
          Re: forth databases visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-12-17 09:35 -0800
      Re: forth databases the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2014-12-16 21:22 -0800

#34926 — forth databases

where learn how to program them?

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#34933

On Sunday, December 14, 2014 7:54:43 PM UTC-8, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> where learn how to program them?

du not no!

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#35001

On Monday, December 15, 2014 9:55:45 AM UTC-7, Jason Damisch wrote:
> On Sunday, December 14, 2014 7:54:43 PM UTC-8, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> > where learn how to program them?
> 
> du not no!

du-nots  hmmmmmmmm.  Is there anything they can't do?

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#34934

On Sunday, December 14, 2014 7:54:43 PM UTC-8, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> where learn how to program them?

If you REALLY want to know, I could probably point you in the right direction.  Standard practice these days would probably be to just hook up a connection to SQL Server or something like that.  Pure Forth databases do exist, and can be very good.  

Please take note that peoples time is valuable, and the better skilled the programmer, the more valuable he or she's time is. 

What are you willing to put in Gav?

Jason

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#34951

On Monday, December 15, 2014 11:03:50 AM UTC-7, Jason Damisch wrote:
> On Sunday, December 14, 2014 7:54:43 PM UTC-8, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> > where learn how to program them?
> 
> If you REALLY want to know, I could probably point you in the right direction.  Standard practice these days would probably be to just hook up a connection to SQL Server or something like that.  Pure Forth databases do exist, and can be very good.  
> 
> Please take note that peoples time is valuable, and the better skilled the programmer, the more valuable he or she's time is. 
> 
> What are you willing to put in Gav?
> 
> Jason

If the data fits in memory, use ASSOCIATION.4TH in my novice package. Considering how much memory modern computers have, this should work reasonably often.

The problem here, is that Gavino doesn't have any particular application in mind, or any plan to write anything. If the question referred to an actual application, then I would be able to say whether an in-memory tree or a real data-base on disk would make more sense --- as it is, it is just building castles in the sky --- maybe next, Gavino will ask: "interplanetary spaceships: where learn how to build them?"

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#34973

On Tuesday, December 16, 2014 1:26:18 AM UTC-5, hughag...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, December 15, 2014 11:03:50 AM UTC-7, Jason Damisch wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 14, 2014 7:54:43 PM UTC-8, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> > > where learn how to program them?
> > 
> > If you REALLY want to know, I could probably point you in the right direction.  Standard practice these days would probably be to just hook up a connection to SQL Server or something like that.  Pure Forth databases do exist, and can be very good.  
> > 
> > Please take note that peoples time is valuable, and the better skilled the programmer, the more valuable he or she's time is. 
> > 
> > What are you willing to put in Gav?
> > 
> > Jason
> 
> If the data fits in memory, use ASSOCIATION.4TH in my novice package. Considering how much memory modern computers have, this should work reasonably often.
> 
> The problem here, is that Gavino doesn't have any particular application in mind, or any plan to write anything. If the question referred to an actual application, then I would be able to say whether an in-memory tree or a real data-base on disk would make more sense --- as it is, it is just building castles in the sky --- maybe next, Gavino will ask: "interplanetary spaceships: where learn how to build them?"

What about logic in ram, but pics n blobs on disk?
Then surely logic fits....making app fast and then disk and network shuffle blobs to browser..

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#34972

On Monday, December 15, 2014 1:03:50 PM UTC-5, Jason Damisch wrote:
> On Sunday, December 14, 2014 7:54:43 PM UTC-8, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> > where learn how to program them?
> 
> If you REALLY want to know, I could probably point you in the right direction.  Standard practice these days would probably be to just hook up a connection to SQL Server or something like that.  Pure Forth databases do exist, and can be very good.  
> 
> Please take note that peoples time is valuable, and the better skilled the programmer, the more valuable he or she's time is. 
> 
> What are you willing to put in Gav?
> 
> Jason


I can re read thinking and starting forth...

Sometimes I hit roadblocks in trying to do something in forth.

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#34939

On Sunday, December 14, 2014 10:54:43 PM UTC-5, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> where learn how to program them?

Hi Gavino,

Thanks for your great question!

35 years ago I had a request to build a microprocessor system to be used for alarming firefighters. It should have data for several hundred villages in a rural area.

At that time I heard that Hewlett Packard is using databases to organize data, while other companies used software where data have been stored locally. So my idea was to write a database for my 6502 microprocessor system.

To prepare myself I went to our town library looking for books about databases. I found a lot, discovering that airlines have been massively using databases, and I read a lot about there. I am glad I found a book which told me that it is important that you don't loose data when there is a power outage.

It took me several weeks to write my database software on a 6502 system using a hex keypad controlled monitor program. To reduce typing, I wrote a little VM, which was fast and did a great job.

And then, in 1979, I read the BYTE magazine reporting about Forth - there it was again, not only a little VM, but a complete OS. 

In 1993 I got a request to write the same system again, but this time using an OS9 operating system. So I ordered Mitch Bradley's Forth for OS9. Writing the database software needed only one Sunday afternoon this time.

I encourage you to read books about databases and start programming a database with a Forth program which suits you. I would suggest Win32Forth, because it is free, good documented, and easy to use.

Please report about your success and/or your problems!

P.S.: Back then I didn't know that databases are the future. I could have started a database business, competition to Oracle, which was in it's beginnings back then (I just looked it up at Wikipedia). But I missed the chance. Don't miss the chance to do something good!

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#34942

On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:57:37 -0500, <visualforth@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, December 14, 2014 10:54:43 PM UTC-5, the_gavino_himself wrote:

>> where learn how to program them?
>
> Hi Gavino,
>
> Thanks for your great question!
>
> 35 years ago I had a request to build a microprocessor system to be used  
> for alarming firefighters. It should have data for several hundred  
> villages in a rural area.
>
> At that time I heard that Hewlett Packard is using databases to organize  
> data, while other companies used software where data have been stored  
> locally. So my idea was to write a database for my 6502 microprocessor  
> system.
>
> To prepare myself I went to our town library looking for books about  
> databases. I found a lot, discovering that airlines have been massively  
> using databases, and I read a lot about there. I am glad I found a book  
> which told me that it is important that you don't loose data when there  
> is a power outage.
>
> It took me several weeks to write my database software on a 6502 system  
> using a hex keypad controlled monitor program. To reduce typing, I wrote  
> a little VM, which was fast and did a great job.
>
> And then, in 1979, I read the BYTE magazine reporting about Forth -  
> there it was again, not only a little VM, but a complete OS.
>
> In 1993 I got a request to write the same system again, but this time  
> using an OS9 operating system. So I ordered Mitch Bradley's Forth for  
> OS9. Writing the database software needed only one Sunday afternoon this  
> time.
>
> I encourage you to read books about databases and start programming a  
> database with a Forth program which suits you. I would suggest  
> Win32Forth, because it is free, good documented, and easy to use.
>
> Please report about your success and/or your problems!
>
> P.S.: Back then I didn't know that databases are the future. I could  
> have started a database business, competition to Oracle, which was in  
> it's beginnings back then (I just looked it up at Wikipedia). But I  
> missed the chance. Don't miss the chance to do something good!

I like the story. :-)  And, it doesn't help Gavino one bit. ;-)

I missed out on more than one way to be very wealthy myself. :-(
Hindsight is 20-20.

If Gav-No's past history is taken into account, he won't be
reporting any successes or failures.  His rant never changes,
much like Hugh's. Gav: 1% code, browser in Forth, etc.


Now that that's said.  You can't find any MS-DOS books at any
library anywhere anymore.  I've checked.  Wow, so many "-any's"
in that sentence.  The world has moved on to Amazon.  So, it's
even more unlikely he'll find a Forth book.  I can tell you for
a *fact* that there was only *one* library in nearly a 200 mile
radius that had any books on Forth in the early 1990's.  I live
near a major U.S. city.  I checked every local city library,
about 50 of them, the library of the major city, the libraries of
every college and university, about a dozen of them, and even a
few libraries of private schools, e.g., business schools.  This
was before computerized databases of the library catalogs and
inter-library loans, etc. These libraries once had many, many
books on MS-DOS, but only one had a few on Forth.  So, today,
you're very unlikely to find many libraries with books on Forth.
I'm sure you could find one in the New York public library,
or the Library of Congress, or the largest university libraries.
Of course, he'd need to live near one of those, and be willing
to go there, and be willing to read and learn, and ...


Rod Pemberton

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#34943

On Monday, December 15, 2014 3:29:11 PM UTC-8, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> even more unlikely he'll find a Forth book.  I can tell you for
> a *fact* that there was only *one* library in nearly a 200 mile
> radius that had any books on Forth in the early 1990's.  I live

I lived in Salem, Oregon growing up, and our library, a very good one
considering the size of the city, did have a few Forth books.  This 
was in the 80's.  Now, I can remember that these Forth books were not
very good, and that I didn't' really start to 'get' Forth until I
ready Starting Forth.

As I recall, our library also had a book on how to build, not write
but build videogames using a non-digital approach. This would have
been to create the types of videogames seen in the early to mid
70's.  I could not understand it at all.

I've had and read some Forth books over the years, and some were
much better than others.

Jason

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#34976

On Monday, December 15, 2014 6:51:17 PM UTC-5, Jason Damisch wrote:
> On Monday, December 15, 2014 3:29:11 PM UTC-8, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> > even more unlikely he'll find a Forth book.  I can tell you for
> > a *fact* that there was only *one* library in nearly a 200 mile
> > radius that had any books on Forth in the early 1990's.  I live
> 
> I lived in Salem, Oregon growing up, and our library, a very good one
> considering the size of the city, did have a few Forth books.  This 
> was in the 80's.  Now, I can remember that these Forth books were not
> very good, and that I didn't' really start to 'get' Forth until I
> ready Starting Forth.vance
> 
> As I recall, our library also had a book on how to build, not write
> but build videogames using a non-digital approach. This would have
> been to create the types of videogames seen in the early to mid
> 70's.  I could not understand it at all.
> 
> I've had and read some Forth books over the years, and some were
> much better than others.
> 
> Jason

Libbraries miss many great authors like ae van vogt, jack vance, hp lovecraft, robert e howard, fritz leiber....

It  is bad that so many good older thing are not preserved for re discovery.

I wish a rich donor would pay charles moore to write a series on programming.

Like 10 volume set.

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#34947

On Monday, December 15, 2014 6:29:11 PM UTC-5, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:57:37 -0500, <visualforth@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 14, 2014 10:54:43 PM UTC-5, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> 
> >> where learn how to program them?
> >
> > Hi Gavino,
> >
> > Thanks for your great question!
> >
> > 35 years ago I had a request to build a microprocessor system to be used  
> > for alarming firefighters. It should have data for several hundred  
> > villages in a rural area.
> >
> > At that time I heard that Hewlett Packard is using databases to organize  
> > data, while other companies used software where data have been stored  
> > locally. So my idea was to write a database for my 6502 microprocessor  
> > system.
> >
> > To prepare myself I went to our town library looking for books about  
> > databases. I found a lot, discovering that airlines have been massively  
> > using databases, and I read a lot about there. I am glad I found a book  
> > which told me that it is important that you don't loose data when there  
> > is a power outage.
> >
> > It took me several weeks to write my database software on a 6502 system  
> > using a hex keypad controlled monitor program. To reduce typing, I wrote  
> > a little VM, which was fast and did a great job.
> >
> > And then, in 1979, I read the BYTE magazine reporting about Forth -  
> > there it was again, not only a little VM, but a complete OS.
> >
> > In 1993 I got a request to write the same system again, but this time  
> > using an OS9 operating system. So I ordered Mitch Bradley's Forth for  
> > OS9. Writing the database software needed only one Sunday afternoon this  
> > time.
> >
> > I encourage you to read books about databases and start programming a  
> > database with a Forth program which suits you. I would suggest  
> > Win32Forth, because it is free, good documented, and easy to use.
> >
> > Please report about your success and/or your problems!
> >
> > P.S.: Back then I didn't know that databases are the future. I could  
> > have started a database business, competition to Oracle, which was in  
> > it's beginnings back then (I just looked it up at Wikipedia). But I  
> > missed the chance. Don't miss the chance to do something good!
> 
> I like the story. :-)  And, it doesn't help Gavino one bit. ;-)
> 
> I missed out on more than one way to be very wealthy myself. :-(
> Hindsight is 20-20.
> 
> If Gav-No's past history is taken into account, he won't be
> reporting any successes or failures.  His rant never changes,
> much like Hugh's. Gav: 1% code, browser in Forth, etc.
> 
> 
> Now that that's said.  You can't find any MS-DOS books at any
> library anywhere anymore.  I've checked.  Wow, so many "-any's"
> in that sentence.  The world has moved on to Amazon.  So, it's
> even more unlikely he'll find a Forth book.  I can tell you for
> a *fact* that there was only *one* library in nearly a 200 mile
> radius that had any books on Forth in the early 1990's.  I live
> near a major U.S. city.  I checked every local city library,
> about 50 of them, the library of the major city, the libraries of
> every college and university, about a dozen of them, and even a
> few libraries of private schools, e.g., business schools.  This
> was before computerized databases of the library catalogs and
> inter-library loans, etc. These libraries once had many, many
> books on MS-DOS, but only one had a few on Forth.  So, today,
> you're very unlikely to find many libraries with books on Forth.
> I'm sure you could find one in the New York public library,
> or the Library of Congress, or the largest university libraries.
> Of course, he'd need to live near one of those, and be willing
> to go there, and be willing to read and learn, and ...
> 
> 
> Rod Pemberton

Rod,
I didn't use any Forth book to write my database software.
I used my imagination instead, writing in hex code assembly the first time,
and using my RSC-Forth experience the second time.

The RSC-Forth User's Manual is available on the Internet, scanned, searchable.
That's all what I did need over the years.

Just google for "RSC-Forth User's Manual" - and give Gavino a chance to change his name to Gaviyes.

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#34975

On Monday, December 15, 2014 6:29:11 PM UTC-5, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:57:37 -0500, <visualforth@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sunday, December 14, 2014 10:54:43 PM UTC-5, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> 
> >> where learn how to program them?
> >
> > Hi Gavino,
> >
> > Thanks for your great question!
> >
> > 35 years ago I had a request to build a microprocessor system to be used  
> > for alarming firefighters. It should have data for several hundred  
> > villages in a rural area.
> >
> > At that time I heard that Hewlett Packard is using databases to organize  
> > data, while other companies used software where data have been stored  
> > locally. So my idea was to write a database for my 6502 microprocessor  
> > system.
> >
> > To prepare myself I went to our town library looking for books about  
> > databases. I found a lot, discovering that airlines have been massively  
> > using databases, and I read a lot about there. I am glad I found a book  
> > which told me that it is important that you don't loose data when there  
> > is a power outage.
> >
> > It took me several weeks to write my database software on a 6502 system  
> > using a hex keypad controlled monitor program. To reduce typing, I wrote  
> > a little VM, which was fast and did a great job.
> >
> > And then, in 1979, I read the BYTE magazine reporting about Forth -  
> > there it was again, not only a little VM, but a complete OS.
> >
> > In 1993 I got a request to write the same system again, but this time  
> > using an OS9 operating system. So I ordered Mitch Bradley's Forth for  
> > OS9. Writing the database software needed only one Sunday afternoon this  
> > time.
> >
> > I encourage you to read books about databases and start programming a  
> > database with a Forth program which suits you. I would suggest  
> > Win32Forth, because it is free, good documented, and easy to use.
> >
> > Please report about your success and/or your problems!
> >
> > P.S.: Back then I didn't know that databases are the future. I could  
> > have started a database business, competition to Oracle, which was in  
> > it's beginnings back then (I just looked it up at Wikipedia). But I  
> > missed the chance. Don't miss the chance to do something good!
> 
> I like the story. :-)  And, it doesn't help Gavino one bit. ;-)
> 
> I missed out on more than one way to be very wealthy myself. :-(
> Hindsight is 20-20.
> 
> If Gav-No's past history is taken into account, he won't be
> reporting any successes or failures.  His rant never changes,
> much like Hugh's. Gav: 1% code, browser in Forth, etc.
> 
> 
> Now that that's said.  You can't find any MS-DOS books at any
> library anywhere anymore.  I've checked.  Wow, so many "-any's"
> in that sentence.  The world has moved on to Amazon.  So, it's
> even more unlikely he'll find a Forth book.  I can tell you for
> a *fact* that there was only *one* library in nearly a 200 mile
> radius that had any books on Forth in the early 1990's.  I live
> near a major U.S. city.  I checked every local city library,
> about 50 of them, the library of the major city, the libraries of
> every college and university, about a dozen of them, and even a
> few libraries of private schools, e.g., business schools.  This
> was before computerized databases of the library catalogs and
> inter-library loans, etc. These libraries once had many, many
> books on MS-DOS, but only one had a few on Forth.  So, today,
> you're very unlikely to find many libraries with books on Forth.
> I'm sure you could find one in the New York pubrthlic library,
> or the Library of Congress, or the largest university libraries.
> Of course, he'd need to live near one of those, and be willing
> to go there, and be willing to read and learn, and ...
> 
> 
> Rod Pemberton

what about a forth wikibook?  or cpan for forth?

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#34970

On 15.12.2014 22:57, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote:

> P.S.: Back then I didn't know that databases are the future. I could
> have started a database business, competition to Oracle, which was in
> it's beginnings back then (I just looked it up at Wikipedia). But I
> missed the chance. Don't miss the chance to do something good!
>

Actually there is one area where you might be able to shine again with 
database. All this NoSQL stuff. Nowadays first answer is MySQL and right 
next is MongoDB which is NoSQL and if your implementation would be 
faster and somehow better.

Fast, robust and thing which can handle huge data. Most of the time when 
I'm working with databases I need to find the one record which I''m 
interested. with SQL I end up huge statements and mongoDB isn't that 
much better. I like to start like narrowing records by gradually 
tightening filters. And that might be the Killer Feature. Naturally 
interactive forth interface would be great to search and debug and so on.

Just a thought if you have no other intentions on during holidays.

Best regards,
Hannu Vuolasaho

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#34980

Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15.12.2014 22:57, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote:
> 
>> P.S.: Back then I didn't know that databases are the future. I could
>> have started a database business, competition to Oracle, which was in
>> it's beginnings back then (I just looked it up at Wikipedia). But I
>> missed the chance. Don't miss the chance to do something good!
>> 
> 
> Actually there is one area where you might be able to shine again with
> database. All this NoSQL stuff. Nowadays first answer is MySQL and right
> next is MongoDB which is NoSQL and if your implementation would be faster
> and somehow better.
> 
> Fast, robust and thing which can handle huge data. Most of the time when
> I'm working with databases I need to find the one record which I''m
> interested. with SQL I end up huge statements and mongoDB isn't that much
> better. I like to start like narrowing records by gradually tightening
> filters. And that might be the Killer Feature. Naturally interactive
> forth interface would be great to search and debug and so on.
> 
> Just a thought if you have no other intentions on during holidays.
> 
> Best regards,
> Hannu Vuolasaho

Traditional Forth is already a database. Very simple, without good
abilities to search, very slow, but there are already data structures (LFA,
CFA, PFA) and tables (vocabularies or wordsets).

Of course, there is no SQL implemented, but Forth can be considered as
rudimentary NoSQL database (key-value storage).

-- 
mix x

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#34983

On 12/16/14 8:26 PM, mix wrote:
> Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 15.12.2014 22:57, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> P.S.: Back then I didn't know that databases are the future. I could
>>> have started a database business, competition to Oracle, which was in
>>> it's beginnings back then (I just looked it up at Wikipedia). But I
>>> missed the chance. Don't miss the chance to do something good!
>>>
>>
>> Actually there is one area where you might be able to shine again with
>> database. All this NoSQL stuff. Nowadays first answer is MySQL and right
>> next is MongoDB which is NoSQL and if your implementation would be faster
>> and somehow better.
>>
>> Fast, robust and thing which can handle huge data. Most of the time when
>> I'm working with databases I need to find the one record which I''m
>> interested. with SQL I end up huge statements and mongoDB isn't that much
>> better. I like to start like narrowing records by gradually tightening
>> filters. And that might be the Killer Feature. Naturally interactive
>> forth interface would be great to search and debug and so on.
>>
>> Just a thought if you have no other intentions on during holidays.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Hannu Vuolasaho
>
> Traditional Forth is already a database. Very simple, without good
> abilities to search, very slow, but there are already data structures (LFA,
> CFA, PFA) and tables (vocabularies or wordsets).
>
> Of course, there is no SQL implemented, but Forth can be considered as
> rudimentary NoSQL database (key-value storage).

polyFORTH had extensive database facilities that were used in some large 
and complex applications in the 70's and 80's (a few of which are still 
running). However, when we developed SwiftForth for Windows in the late 
90's we concluded that standards and culture indicated that the market 
favored SQL-type approaches, so we did not do a port of that database. 
If you're seriously interested in a standalone Forth database, contact 
FORTH, Inc.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
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#34997

On Wed, 17 Dec 2014 04:10:51 +0200, Hannu Vuolasaho
<vuokkosetae@gmail.com> wrote:

>Actually there is one area where you might be able to shine again with 
>database. All this NoSQL stuff. Nowadays first answer is MySQL and right 
>next is MongoDB which is NoSQL and if your implementation would be 
>faster and somehow better.
>
>Fast, robust and thing which can handle huge data. Most of the time when 
>I'm working with databases I need to find the one record which I''m 
>interested. with SQL I end up huge statements and mongoDB isn't that 
>much better. I like to start like narrowing records by gradually 
>tightening filters. And that might be the Killer Feature. Naturally 
>interactive forth interface would be great to search and debug and so on.

One of our clients uses a Forth database today that has its origins
over 30 years ago. It is very fast compared to external databases
but the current programming culture is just to use an external
library or system.

Nowadays the time to market issues often overwhelm any consideration
of efficiency.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

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#34999

On Wednesday, December 17, 2014 10:33:02 AM UTC-5, Stephen Pelc wrote:

> Nowadays the time to market issues often overwhelm any consideration
> of efficiency.

That reminds me on one important feature when writing my database software more than 30 years ago:

Before starting the project, I was invited to visit the Red Cross in Munich to look at their computer system. Somebody showed me how to add an item to their database. It took only a few seconds IIRC, and then the demonstrator said: let's go for a cup of coffee. The computer will need 15 minutes to sort these data in.

That gave me the idea to put the new data immediately into the right place instead of putting in on top and then starting a sorting. I never needed a sorting procedure for that project.

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#34974

On Monday, December 15, 2014 3:57:38 PM UTC-5, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, December 14, 2014 10:54:43 PM UTC-5, the_gavino_himself wrote:
> > where learn how to program them?
> 
> Hi Gavino,
> 
> Thanks for your great question!
> 
> 35 years ago I had a request to build a microprocessor system to be used for alarming firefighters. It should have data for several hundred villages in a rural area.
> 
> At that time I heard that Hewlett Packard is using databases to organize data, while other companies used software where data have been stored locally. So my idea was to write a database for my 6502 microprocessor system.
> 
> To prepare myself I went to our town library looking for books about databases. I found a lot, discovering that airlines have been massively using databases, and I read a lot about there. I am glad I found a book which told me that it is important that you don't loose data when there is a power outage.
> 
> It took me several weeks to write my database software on a 6502 system using a hex keypad controlled monitor program. To reduce typing, I wrote a little VM, which was fast and did a great job.
> 
> And then, in 1979, I read the BYTE magazine reporting about Forth - there it was again, not only a little VM, but a complete OS. 
> 
> In 1993 I got a request to write the same system again, but this time using an OS9 operating system. So I ordered Mitch Bradley's Forth for OS9. Writing the database software needed only one Sunday afternoon this time.
> 
> I encourage you to read books about databases and start programming a database with a Forth program which suits you. I would suggest Win32Forth, because it is free, good documented, and easy to use.
> 
> Please report about your success and/or your problems!
> 
> P.S.: Back then I didn't know that databases are the future. I could have started a database business, competition to Oracle, which was in it's beginnings back then (I just looked it up at Wikipedia). But I missed the chance. Don't miss the chance to do something good!

Have you considered an open source projject incorperating your database?

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