Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.forth > #31249 > unrolled thread

Apple's top secret Swift language

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth

Contents

  Apple's top secret Swift language "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 18:30 -0700
    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-06 15:47 -1000
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 18:55 -0700
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 05:12 -0700
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-07 10:58 -0700
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 11:11 -0700
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 18:06 -0400
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Zbigniew <empty.buffersYOU-DONT-WANT-THIS@gmail.NEITHER-THIS.com> - 2014-06-08 09:00 +0000
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 14:46 -0700
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-07 15:05 -0700
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-07 18:30 -0700
    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-06 22:41 -0400
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-07 02:20 -0400
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 04:20 -0400
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-07 07:04 -0400
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-07 15:05 +0200
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 06:43 -0700
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 09:58 -0400
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-06-07 11:14 -0700
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-07 18:15 -0400
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-08 22:46 -0700
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-06-09 13:12 +0000
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 14:13 -0400
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-09 12:48 -1000
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 20:49 -0400
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-09 18:54 -0700
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-09 18:41 -0700
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-09 20:05 -0700
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language anonymous <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-06-10 00:21 -0400
                Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-09 18:43 -1000
                  Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-10 01:31 -0400
                  Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-10 15:55 -0700
                    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-06-10 16:32 -0700
                      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-06-10 16:49 -0700
                      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-10 16:28 -1000
                      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-06-11 18:51 -0400
                      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-11 19:22 -0700
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-11 20:10 -0700
    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-06-10 00:37 +0000
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-06-10 09:17 +0400
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language babruehl@gmail.com - 2014-06-11 20:14 -0700
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-06-11 20:48 -0700
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 01:24 -0400
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-06-11 20:28 -1000
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-06-12 12:00 +0100
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-06-12 15:06 +0200
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-06-12 13:22 -0400
    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-07-16 13:34 -0700
    Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-07-21 14:16 -1000
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-07-21 21:39 -0700
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2014-07-22 07:49 +0300
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-07-22 02:21 -0400
          Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-07-22 04:10 -0400
            Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2014-07-21 22:09 -1000
              Re: Apple's top secret Swift language "VisualFORTH.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-07-23 18:59 -0700
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2014-07-21 21:11 -1000
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2014-07-22 11:23 +0200
      Re: Apple's top secret Swift language Buz Powers <wpowers@ll.mit.edu> - 2014-07-24 10:58 -0400
        Re: Apple's top secret Swift language visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-07-25 11:35 -0700

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

#31432

On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 1:17:40 AM UTC-4, Alexander Skobelev wrote:
> Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> writes:
> 
> 
> 
> > VisualForth.com <babruehl@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
> 
> >
> 
> > Or perhaps not quite so swift?
> 
> > <http://www.splasmata.com/?p=2798>
> 
> >
> 
> > I have not looked closer at the results.
> 
> >
> 
> > -- 
> 
> > Marc
> 
> 
> 
> There is a discussion on stackoverflow concerning Swift's perfomance:
> 
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24101718/swift-performance-sorting-arrays 
> 
> 
> 
> The conclusion is if you want to get it run almost as fast as C++ you
> 
> need to compile it with -Ofast switch. That yet, as was said, "changes
> 
> the semantics of the language a lot" (like switching off checks for
> 
> integer overflows and array index overflow).

Even SwiftForth' Logo has been used - upgraded with colors and modern style:
Why Coders Are Going Nuts Over Apple's New Programming Language
Source: http://www.wired.com/2014/06/apple-swift-language

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31434

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 8:14:51 PM UTC-7, babr...@gmail.com wrote:
> Even SwiftForth' Logo has been used - upgraded with colors and modern style:
> Why Coders Are Going Nuts Over Apple's New Programming Language
> Source: http://www.wired.com/2014/06/apple-swift-language

I looked at http://www.forth.com/ and saw that they have a graphical image of a bird, and Apple is also using a graphical image of a bird. They don't look very much alike to me. Is there another bird image that Forth Inc. uses that looks more similar? 

There are quite a lot of companies that have a logo featuring a bird --- being able to fly is symbolic of being free, which is why this is such a common motif (America uses the eagle as our nation's logo) --- I mean, with a name like "Swift," were you expecting them to use a hippopotamus?

"Aguila" is Spanish for "eagle" --- maybe I should sue Apple too!

I really don't think that Apple is trying to steal Forth Inc.'s fame. This is just not realistic!

I read a little about Swift, and it seems to be similar to Go, a language that I'm currently learning. It is not similar to SwiftForth in any way that I am aware of.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31437

On 6/11/2014 11:14 PM, babruehl@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Even SwiftForth' Logo has been used - upgraded with colors and modern style:
> Why Coders Are Going Nuts Over Apple's New Programming Language
> Source: http://www.wired.com/2014/06/apple-swift-language

Both logos are of the swift bird.  I'm not sure that by itself is enough 
to be considered trademark infringement as the two images are not really 
much alike other than both being of the same type of bird.  I do think 
that the use of the name "Swift" in conjunction with software 
development tools *is* trademark infringement.  Since they can't have a 
language without tools (or at least it is not very interesting) I'd say 
Forth Inc has a good case.  I'm sure it will take the Apple lawyers more 
than a couple of days to figure out how to dispose of Forth Inc... I 
hope it doesn't involve some of Hugh's hit man ideas (or hit woman).

-- 

Rick

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31439

On 6/11/14 7:24 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 6/11/2014 11:14 PM, babruehl@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Even SwiftForth' Logo has been used - upgraded with colors and modern
>> style:
>> Why Coders Are Going Nuts Over Apple's New Programming Language
>> Source: http://www.wired.com/2014/06/apple-swift-language
>
> Both logos are of the swift bird.  I'm not sure that by itself is enough
> to be considered trademark infringement as the two images are not really
> much alike other than both being of the same type of bird.  I do think
> that the use of the name "Swift" in conjunction with software
> development tools *is* trademark infringement.  Since they can't have a
> language without tools (or at least it is not very interesting) I'd say
> Forth Inc has a good case.  I'm sure it will take the Apple lawyers more
> than a couple of days to figure out how to dispose of Forth Inc... I
> hope it doesn't involve some of Hugh's hit man ideas (or hit woman).
>

LOL, I've already been hit once this year. Really don't need another!

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31447

on 12/06/2014 06:24:11, rickman wrote:
> On 6/11/2014 11:14 PM, babruehl@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Even SwiftForth' Logo has been used - upgraded with colors and modern style:
>> Why Coders Are Going Nuts Over Apple's New Programming Language
>> Source: http://www.wired.com/2014/06/apple-swift-language
> 
> Both logos are of the swift bird. I'm not sure that by itself is
> enough to be considered trademark infringement as the two images are
> not really much alike other than both being of the same type of bird.
> I do think that the use of the name "Swift" in conjunction with
> software development tools *is* trademark infringement. Since they
> can't have a language without tools (or at least it is not very
> interesting) I'd say Forth Inc has a good case. I'm sure it will take
> the Apple lawyers more than a couple of days to figure out how to
> dispose of Forth Inc... I hope it doesn't involve some of Hugh's hit
> man ideas (or hit woman).
> 


The name has been used several times before. My first encounter was with
SWIFT, as in Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication
in the 1970s. Closer to the present there's also OpenStack Swift.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31451

Alex McDonald wrote:
> The name has been used several times before. My first encounter was with
> SWIFT, as in Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication
> in the 1970s. Closer to the present there's also OpenStack Swift.

Trademarks are registered for fields of business.  If you don't compete, 
because it's a different business, there's no infringement.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#31454

On 6/12/2014 7:00 AM, Alex McDonald wrote:
> on 12/06/2014 06:24:11, rickman wrote:
>> On 6/11/2014 11:14 PM, babruehl@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Even SwiftForth' Logo has been used - upgraded with colors and modern style:
>>> Why Coders Are Going Nuts Over Apple's New Programming Language
>>> Source: http://www.wired.com/2014/06/apple-swift-language
>>
>> Both logos are of the swift bird. I'm not sure that by itself is
>> enough to be considered trademark infringement as the two images are
>> not really much alike other than both being of the same type of bird.
>> I do think that the use of the name "Swift" in conjunction with
>> software development tools *is* trademark infringement. Since they
>> can't have a language without tools (or at least it is not very
>> interesting) I'd say Forth Inc has a good case. I'm sure it will take
>> the Apple lawyers more than a couple of days to figure out how to
>> dispose of Forth Inc... I hope it doesn't involve some of Hugh's hit
>> man ideas (or hit woman).
>>
>
>
> The name has been used several times before. My first encounter was with
> SWIFT, as in Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication
> in the 1970s. Closer to the present there's also OpenStack Swift.

That is unrelated.  A trademark is not infringing unless there is an 
overlap in market, including location.  An uncle of mine was selling 
"Mom's" pies in California.  Turns out there was a "Mom's" pie company 
near here in Virginia.  Since neither sold products in the other's 
territory there was no infringement.

The society in no way competes with Forth Inc's software tools, so there 
is no infringement on Forth Inc's Swiftforth.  The openstack project 
might be infringing on Swiftforth.  That would be up to lawyers and the 
courts to decide.  If Forth Inc does not pursue the issue with OpenStack 
it can jeopardize their ownership of the Swiftforth trademark.  No small 
part of the issue is whether the use of the "Swift" name on the project 
would cause confusion in the market.

The other situation where any of the above cases could be considered 
infringement is when the use of the name causes "harm" to the brand of 
the owner of the trademark.  This is somewhat vague and so subject to 
being used by the bigger party to intimidate smaller parties.  For 
example, if I create a product called "Coke" which is not in any way 
related to Coca-Cola, they can still claim my use of the word "Coke" 
"harms" their brand.  I would lose just because I can't afford to fight. 
  I don't know what might happen if I used the name "Koke".

I guess I should say that I am not a lawyer, I just play one on TV, ;)

-- 

Rick

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32435

On Friday, June 6, 2014 9:30:30 PM UTC-4, VisualForth.com wrote:
> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?

Now Swift is in the open:
"Why Apple's Swift Language Will Instantly Remake Computer Programming" and allows comments.

Paul Jansen, who has tracked the progress of the world's programming languages for nearly fifteen years with the Tiobe Index, ... "The difference with Swift is that there is incentive." 

Source: http://www.wired.com/2014/07/apple-swift/

Interesting comment about success of programming languages at Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/2ap0xl/why_apples_swift_language_will_instantly_remake/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32525

On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
>

We (FORTH, Inc.) are wondering how much confusion there actually is or 
may be regarding these names. It sounds as though several of you were, 
in fact, wondering about this. What do you hear from your colleages or 
friends about this?

Thanks,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32528

On Monday, July 21, 2014 5:16:28 PM UTC-7, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
> > Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
> 
> We (FORTH, Inc.) are wondering how much confusion there actually is or 
> may be regarding these names. It sounds as though several of you were, 
> in fact, wondering about this. What do you hear from your colleages or 
> friends about this?

I'm wondering how much you are suing Apple for. Just one million dollars --- or go for the gusto and take them for all that they are worth?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32529

On 07/22/2014 03:16 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
>> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
>>
> 
> We (FORTH, Inc.) are wondering how much confusion there actually is or
> may be regarding these names. It sounds as though several of you were,
> in fact, wondering about this. What do you hear from your colleages or
> friends about this?

Really?

Is there more than a handful of people who are confused by this?

It's not like Apple's Swift resembles any Forth at all, let alone Swift
Forth.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32531

On 7/22/2014 12:49 AM, Ron Aaron wrote:
>
>
> On 07/22/2014 03:16 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>> On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
>>> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
>>>
>>
>> We (FORTH, Inc.) are wondering how much confusion there actually is or
>> may be regarding these names. It sounds as though several of you were,
>> in fact, wondering about this. What do you hear from your colleages or
>> friends about this?
>
> Really?
>
> Is there more than a handful of people who are confused by this?
>
> It's not like Apple's Swift resembles any Forth at all, let alone Swift
> Forth.

But until you take a look at the Apple project you don't know.  The 
issue is whether anyone would be confused by Apple's use of the name.  I 
can see where someone would know about the Apple use of the name "Swift" 
for a language and would assume the Forth Inc product is a derivative of 
that rather than a totally independent product.  Very likely they would 
not dig any further in exploring the Forth Inc product.

I don't see how Apple can think there wouldn't be a problem for Forth 
Inc.  On the other hand, I can see where it might generate a lot of 
contacts for Forth Inc, but then that may not be good if the contacts 
have no interest at all in SwiftForth.  Someone once said there is no 
such thing as bad publicity.  :)

-- 

Rick

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32536

On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 02:21:45 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 7/22/2014 12:49 AM, Ron Aaron wrote:
>> On 07/22/2014 03:16 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>>> On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
>>>> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?

>>> We (FORTH, Inc.) are wondering how much confusion there actually is or
>>> may be regarding these names. It sounds as though several of you were,
>>> in fact, wondering about this. What do you hear from your colleages or
>>> friends about this?
>>
>> Really?
>>
>> Is there more than a handful of people who are confused by this?
>>
>> It's not like Apple's Swift resembles any Forth at all, let alone Swift
>> Forth.
>
> But until you take a look at the Apple project you don't know.  The  
> issue is whether anyone would be confused by Apple's use of the name.  I  
> can see where someone would know about the Apple use of the name "Swift"  
> for a language and would assume the Forth Inc product is a derivative of  
> that rather than a totally independent product.  Very likely they would  
> not dig any further in exploring the Forth Inc product.
>
> I don't see how Apple can think there wouldn't be a problem for Forth  
> Inc.  On the other hand, I can see where it might generate a lot of  
> contacts for Forth Inc, but then that may not be good if the contacts  
> have no interest at all in SwiftForth.  Someone once said there is no  
> such thing as bad publicity.  :)
>

I can see where someone would know about the use of the name apple to
represent the common fruit and might be confused with Apple's use of
apple ...

Is confusion the only grounds for infringement?  Does use of a word
by protected by a government on behalf of a commercial company entirely
prohibit it's use by others?  How common can a name be and still be
protected?

There is nothing wrong with having an a car, washer, dryer, fruit juice,
etc by companies named Apple which aren't the Apple computer company.
If they're not in the same industry in the same country, it makes no
difference.

So, this conversation is entirely ludicrous.  I.e., in this case the
presence and absence of "Forth" might be sufficient legal grounds to
differentiate the two.

There are numerous examples where U.S. corporations have used the
same word or words in their product names and trademarked phrases.
E.g., Acme as a corporate name.


Rod Pemberton

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32538

On 7/21/2014 10:10 PM, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Jul 2014 02:21:45 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 7/22/2014 12:49 AM, Ron Aaron wrote:
>>> On 07/22/2014 03:16 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>>>> On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
>>>>> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
>
>>>> We (FORTH, Inc.) are wondering how much confusion there actually is or
>>>> may be regarding these names. It sounds as though several of you were,
>>>> in fact, wondering about this. What do you hear from your colleages or
>>>> friends about this?
>>>
>>> Really?
>>>
>>> Is there more than a handful of people who are confused by this?
>>>
>>> It's not like Apple's Swift resembles any Forth at all, let alone Swift
>>> Forth.
>>
>> But until you take a look at the Apple project you don't know.  The
>> issue is whether anyone would be confused by Apple's use of the name.
>> I can see where someone would know about the Apple use of the name
>> "Swift" for a language and would assume the Forth Inc product is a
>> derivative of that rather than a totally independent product.  Very
>> likely they would not dig any further in exploring the Forth Inc product.
>>
>> I don't see how Apple can think there wouldn't be a problem for Forth
>> Inc.  On the other hand, I can see where it might generate a lot of
>> contacts for Forth Inc, but then that may not be good if the contacts
>> have no interest at all in SwiftForth.  Someone once said there is no
>> such thing as bad publicity.  :)
>>
>
> I can see where someone would know about the use of the name apple to
> represent the common fruit and might be confused with Apple's use of
> apple ...
>
> Is confusion the only grounds for infringement?  Does use of a word
> by protected by a government on behalf of a commercial company entirely
> prohibit it's use by others?  How common can a name be and still be
> protected?
>
> There is nothing wrong with having an a car, washer, dryer, fruit juice,
> etc by companies named Apple which aren't the Apple computer company.
> If they're not in the same industry in the same country, it makes no
> difference.
>
> So, this conversation is entirely ludicrous.  I.e., in this case the
> presence and absence of "Forth" might be sufficient legal grounds to
> differentiate the two.
>
> There are numerous examples where U.S. corporations have used the
> same word or words in their product names and trademarked phrases.
> E.g., Acme as a corporate name.

One is unlikely to mistake a fruit or a car from a software product. In 
this case, however, we're talking about two programming languages: i.e., 
the same market area.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32594

On Tuesday, July 22, 2014 4:09:43 AM UTC-4, Elizabeth D Rather wrote:
> One is unlikely to mistake a fruit or a car from a software product. In 
> this case, however, we're talking about two programming languages: i.e., 
> the same market area.
> 
> Cheers,
> Elizabeth
> 
> ==================================================
> Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
> FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
> 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
> Los Angeles, CA 90045
> http://www.forth.com
> 
> "Forth-based products and Services for real-time
> applications since 1973."
> ==================================================

I simply googled for 'swift programming' and glanced over the first seven pages - and lo and behold, on page 7, 4th from top, I found this:

SwiftForth - Forth, Inc.
www.forth.com/swiftforth/
SwiftForth and SwiftX programming language development systems ... Order SwiftForth(tm) for Windows, Mac OS X and Linux programming. Examples, source ... 

- after having found http://swift-lang.org on page 1, 7th link:
"The Swift parallel scripting language. Fast easy parallel scripting - on multicores, clusters, clouds and supercomputers...
The Swift project is supported by the National Science Foundation and US Department of Energy Office of Science, with additional support from the National Institutes of Health, Argonne National Laboratory and the University of Chicago Computation Institute"

and http://www.swiftprogramming.com at the end of page 2.

Have there been requests based on Google's Swift offers?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32533

On 7/21/2014 6:49 PM, Ron Aaron wrote:
>
>
> On 07/22/2014 03:16 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>> On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
>>> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
>>>
>>
>> We (FORTH, Inc.) are wondering how much confusion there actually is or
>> may be regarding these names. It sounds as though several of you were,
>> in fact, wondering about this. What do you hear from your colleages or
>> friends about this?
>
> Really?
>
> Is there more than a handful of people who are confused by this?
>
> It's not like Apple's Swift resembles any Forth at all, let alone Swift
> Forth.
>

But, at least the OP in this thread and one other wondered if we had 
done some alliance with Apple. To be sure, anyone knowledgeable about 
Forth who reads any of their technical docs will see that it's 
different, but how about the less knowledgable?

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32541

On 22/07/2014 06:49, Ron Aaron wrote:
>
>
> On 07/22/2014 03:16 AM, Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
>> On 6/6/14 3:30 PM, VisualForth.com wrote:
>>> Is Apple's top secret Swift language Swift Forth?
>>>
>>
>> We (FORTH, Inc.) are wondering how much confusion there actually is or
>> may be regarding these names. It sounds as though several of you were,
>> in fact, wondering about this. What do you hear from your colleages or
>> friends about this?
>
> Really?
>
> Is there more than a handful of people who are confused by this?
>
> It's not like Apple's Swift resembles any Forth at all, let alone Swift
> Forth.
>

The presentation blurbs during Apple's announcement of Swift were 
certainly such, that you wondered if they were talking about Forth or 
Forth like features in their product. Obviously they were unlike what 
they had used before in XCode and Objective C: they had to announce 
something new and thrilling.

The combination of the advertisement *and* the name Swift was a case of 
concern and possible confusion. As a loyal customer to my vendors :-) I 
immediately contacted FORTH, Inc. remembering certain aggressive 
lawsuits by Apple wrt using/creating similar names and products.

However, discovering on Apple's own Swift web pages a courtesy link to 
another unrelated Swift programming language, I assume there's no 
danger. Note that Apple's A6 processor in iPad/iPhone is called Swift as 
well. Totally unrelated and independently.

As a (Swift)Forth user on the Mac, my only concern regarding Swift, is 
how to interface to future Swift written frameworks/libraries. There's 
no confusion regarding the name(s). Rather, I think it's funny to 
connect SwiftForth and Swift, how fitting.

Friends and colleagues, all ex-Forth users, all Mac, are not confused by 
the name. They didn't even know there was a SwiftForth. They know I 
(still) use Forth, but which version or vendor, no clue.

We all agree on Swift being a god send!
It will speed up the Sluggintosh bogged down in sending messages, 
sending messages, sending messages ad infinitum.
Objective C was initially only for the top layer GUI, now it has 
penetrated everywhere against Apple's own advice not to do that.
Swift is certainly a way out. Hopefully a generation of programmers 
taught in getting drowned in (late bound) object orientation will 
appreciate it and learn how to use it to *our* advance!

(It will save battery life for sure, bye bye AppNap ;-)

-r

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32623

On the bottom of the Apple web page (https://developer.apple.com/swift/)
is the following.

Looking for the Swift parallel scripting language? Please visit 
http://swift-lang.org

So apparently, they were aware of another language using the swift name
and posted a pointer to it.  Maybe you should have Apple post a link to
Swift Forth.

Buz Powers
--
Massachusetts Institute of Technology - Lincoln Laboratory
Advanced Satcom Systems and Operations

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#32656

On Thursday, July 24, 2014 10:58:44 AM UTC-4, Buz Powers wrote:
> On the bottom of the Apple web page (https://developer.apple.com/swift/)
> is the following.
> Looking for the Swift parallel scripting language? Please visit 
> http://swift-lang.org
> 
> So apparently, they were aware of another language using the swift name
> and posted a pointer to it.  Maybe you should have Apple post a link to
> Swift Forth.
> 
> Buz Powers
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology - Lincoln Laboratory
> Advanced Satcom Systems and Operations

Thanks for this great observation!
Question is, how much swift-lang.org payed for this - because Elizabeth wrote again and again that Forth Inc. doesn't have enough money for PR.
But may be they didn't have to pay. Michael Wilde <wilde@mcs.anl.gov> may know the answer.

P.S.: Is there anybody programming or using Forth at the MIT?

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 3 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3]

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.forth

csiph-web