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Does anybody use Windows XP ?

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  Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-26 15:30 -0700
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-26 17:05 -0700
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? AKK <akk@nospam.org> - 2014-03-27 00:49 +0100
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-27 01:33 +0000
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-03-27 01:45 -0700
      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-03-27 08:39 -1000
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-01 01:26 +0200
          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-03-31 23:55 -0700
            Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-01 11:16 +0200
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? jzakiya@gmail.com - 2014-03-27 11:18 -0700
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-03-27 20:04 +0000
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-03-27 18:11 -0400
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-03-28 02:05 +0000
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-03-28 10:53 +0100
      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-03-28 15:15 -0700
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-28 15:42 -0700
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-28 16:17 -0700
          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-28 17:49 -0700
            Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-28 17:52 -0700
              Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-28 18:50 -0700
                Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-28 22:31 -0700
                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-28 23:18 -0700
                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-29 15:03 -0700
                      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-29 16:55 -0700
                        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-29 20:19 -0700
                          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-29 20:55 -0700
                            Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-30 21:14 +0200
                              Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-30 13:09 -0700
                                Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-31 13:26 +0200
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-03-31 18:14 -0400
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-31 15:42 -0700
                                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-01 14:27 +0200
                            Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-30 22:58 -0700
                              Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-03-31 18:18 -0400
                                Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-31 23:10 -0700
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-04-01 00:17 -0700
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-01 19:16 -0400
                                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-04-01 16:34 -0700
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-01 20:10 -0400
                                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-04-01 21:26 -0700
                              Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-01 02:17 +0200
                                Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-03-31 22:23 -0700
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-01 07:45 +0200
                                  Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-01 11:37 +0000
                                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? m.a.m.hendrix@tue.nl - 2014-04-01 05:59 -0700
                                      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-01 16:43 +0000
                                    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-04-03 14:33 +0200
                      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-01 02:15 +0200
                Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Richard Owlett <rowlett@pcnetinc.com> - 2014-03-29 05:50 -0500
              Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-03-29 09:19 +0000
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-03-29 14:16 +0100
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Marc Olschok <nobody@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-03-30 00:33 +0000
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-03-30 21:08 +0200
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2014-03-31 00:23 -0700
    Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-01 10:15 -0700
      Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-04-01 10:38 -0700
        Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-04-01 10:55 -0700
          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-04-01 11:30 -0700
            Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-01 21:20 +0200
          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-01 19:41 -0400
          Re: Does anybody use Windows XP ? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-01 16:46 -0700

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#29175

On Friday, March 28, 2014 9:50:18 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote:
> visualforth.com writes:
> 
> >>  If you want something small, try Debian and (if you want graphics)
> 
> >> XFCE.
> 
> >
> 
> > Thanks, Paul. I am sure I need to be a Linux expert to get running
> 
> > both together.  Only a Linux expert is able to tell which version is a
> 
> > big kitchen sink distro.
> 
> 
> 
> To run XFCE with Debian, I think you just check a box for it during the
> 
> Debian installation dialogue.  Just how small a computer are you trying
> 
> to run this stuff on?

The DELL Latitude D610 has a Pentium (R)M, 1.73GHz, 0.99 GB RAM, 18 GB free HD.
The 2005 Fedora is no problem, but I have been told this Fedora version is as virus vulnerable as Windows XP.

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#29176

visualforth@rocketmail.com writes:
> The DELL Latitude D610 has a Pentium (R)M, 1.73GHz, 0.99 GB RAM, 18 GB
> free HD.  The 2005 Fedora is no problem, but I have been told this
> Fedora version is as virus vulnerable as Windows XP.

That's not a bad machine.  It's comparable to recent netbooks.  You
should be able to run current versions of 32-bit Fedora on it just fine.
You will like it a lot better if you put in an SSD though.  If it uses
PATA hard drive, there are cheap adapters on Ebay that will supposedly
let you put an MSATA SSD into a PATA slot.

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#29184

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 2:18:23 AM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote:
> visualforth.com writes:
> > The DELL Latitude D610 has a Pentium (R)M, 1.73GHz, 0.99 GB RAM, 18 GB
> > free HD.  The 2005 Fedora is no problem, but I have been told this
> > Fedora version is as virus vulnerable as Windows XP.
> 
> That's not a bad machine.  It's comparable to recent netbooks.  You
> should be able to run current versions of 32-bit Fedora on it just fine.
> You will like it a lot better if you put in an SSD though.  If it uses
> PATA hard drive, there are cheap adapters on Ebay that will supposedly
> let you put an MSATA SSD into a PATA slot.

I don't like to add additional hardware, because these laptops are intended for teaching purposes, and additional hardware will make them really expensive. Last year I got 8 of these laptops from eBay at 50$ each. I guess an MSATA SSD will be more expensive.

I now checked all the CDs I got today, and the only one I would consider is PCLinuxOS Mate.

PCLinuxOS KDE is a huge system, installation time is much longer than all the others, and at PCLinuxOS FullMonty I was asked for a password at installation time, installing denied. PCLinuxOS LXDE I couldn't run.
Lubuntu needs PAE, not usable for the D600, but runs on the D610.
Zorin OS 8.1 is really slow, is delivered with Chrome browser.
Kubuntu didn't work on D600.
Simplicity Linux is a mixture of Slackware and Puppy, to complicated to start with.

I got a dozen life CDs today, some of them I installed, and PCLinuxOS Mate is the only one which I may use - but you encouraged me to try Fedora again. That will be the next step, because the old Fedora looked good to me.

All these Linux flavors I tested today show me that Windows XP is still better. Only with Windows XP I am able to see TV without problems, even if PClinuxOS Mate was fairly good, but not pleasant all the time.

Now I will wait for ReactOS - would be great if this works.

Since a while I am thinking if it would be possible to squeeze Forth somewhere in between with Linux (may be using the "Linux from Scratch" edition) to be able to make Linux a pleasant experience.

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#29185

visualforth@rocketmail.com writes:
> I don't like to add additional hardware, because these laptops are
> intended for teaching purposes, and additional hardware will make them
> really expensive. Last year I got 8 of these laptops from eBay at 50$
> each. I guess an MSATA SSD will be more expensive.

Oh I see.  If that's what you're trying to do, maybe you're better off
with Raspberry Pis.  I see there are some PATA SSD's on ebay but yeah,
they'd make the laptop substantially more expensive, even if you get
16GB or 32GB units for $1-$2/GB.

Another possibility for teaching use might be to use a "live distro"
that boots from a USB flash stick and doesn't use the hard drive at all.
A 4GB or even 2GB flash stick (those are dirt cheap) is probably enough.

> I now checked all the CDs I got today, and the only one I would
> consider is PCLinuxOS Mate.  PCLinuxOS KDE is a huge system...,
> PCLinuxOS FullMonty I was asked for a password ... Lubuntu needs PAE,
> ...  Zorin OS 8.1 ... is delivered with Chrome browser.  Kubuntu ...

Really I would skip all those systems that made any attempt to be like
Windows or that came from companies trying to be like Microsoft.  Mate
is nice (I use it myself, it's basically a fork of Gnome 2) but it's
quite bloated compared with XFCE.  Fedora with Mate is nice but might be
a bit large for that 1GB machine.

> All these Linux flavors I tested today show me that Windows XP is
> still better. Only with Windows XP I am able to see TV without
> problems,

I thought you wanted a computer OS, not a TV set.  Windows will always
have better media playback stuff because DRM from media companies
obstructs use with free software.  Android will probably outpace Windows
eventually though, even at this.

> Now I will wait for ReactOS - would be great if this works.

I'd bag Windows altogether.

> Since a while I am thinking if it would be possible to squeeze Forth
> somewhere in between with Linux (may be using the "Linux from Scratch"
> edition) to be able to make Linux a pleasant experience.

Not sure how you mean.  You should be able to run gforth just fine on
any Linux system.  Gforth mode inside Emacs is quite nice to use.

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#29187

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 7:55:24 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote:
>
> I thought you wanted a computer OS, not a TV set.  

Sorry, I should have explained. My native language is German, and I get my news etc from ARD and ZDF. For me it makes only sense to switch to another OS, if I can use it for all my computing needs. 

> Windows will always
> have better media playback stuff because DRM from media companies
> obstructs use with free software. 

Thanks for this explanation. I didn't know this. But this may change when more people find a better OS.

> Android will probably outpace Windows
> eventually though, even at this.

Recently I read that Android is based on Linux or the like!?
 
> > Now I will wait for ReactOS - would be great if this works.

Now I am not sure anymore - they may have the same Media problems.
 
> > Since a while I am thinking if it would be possible to squeeze Forth
> > somewhere in between with Linux (may be using the "Linux from Scratch"
> > edition) to be able to make Linux a pleasant experience.
> 
> Not sure how you mean.  You should be able to run gforth just fine on
> any Linux system.  Gforth mode inside Emacs is quite nice to use.

Twenty years ago Mr. Wagner told me at the Forth conference in Nuremberg that Linux and Forth belong together. Now I see I forgot to ask him about details. My idea was (and is) that Forth would be the OS on top, having everything else in its dictionary, so it would be possible to configure a system Forthwise.

My goal is to have a computer which is as easy to use as a good Forth version is. Win32Forth is my "Gold Standard".

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#29188

visualforth@rocketmail.com writes:
> Sorry, I should have explained. My native language is German, and I
> get my news etc from ARD and ZDF. For me it makes only sense to switch
> to another OS, if I can use it for all my computing needs.

It's possible that ARD and ZDF use formats that Linux can decode.

> Recently I read that Android is based on Linux or the like!?

Android uses the Linux kernel but has a Windows-like application culture
including DRM'd media players etc.  

>> Gforth mode inside Emacs is quite nice to use.
> Twenty years ago Mr. Wagner told me at the Forth conference in
> Nuremberg that Linux and Forth belong together. 

Running Forth under Linux works just fine, if that's what he meant.

> Now I see I forgot to ask him about details. My idea was (and is) that
> Forth would be the OS on top, having everything else in its
> dictionary, so it would be possible to configure a system Forthwise.

This is probably not realistic, given the immense amount of code in a
full-featured Linux system.  It's doable in principle but the amount of
work would be hard to justify given the relatively small likely user
population.

A bare-bones embedded Linux with a Forth shell might be interesting,
but the target platform would be an embedded board rather than a PC.

> My goal is to have a computer which is as easy to use as a good Forth
> version is. Win32Forth is my "Gold Standard".

I'm not sure how Gforth compares to Win32Forth.  Gforth's Forth language
implementation is quite complete, but I don't think it has much in the
way of GUI library bindings.  It's more of an old fashioned Forth that
you type to in a console window or in Emacs.  I know Bernd did an
Android version so maybe that has a way to write Android GUI's.

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#29191

Paul Rubin wrote:

> visualforth@rocketmail.com writes:
>> Sorry, I should have explained. My native language is German, and I
>> get my news etc from ARD and ZDF. For me it makes only sense to switch
>> to another OS, if I can use it for all my computing needs.
> 
> It's possible that ARD and ZDF use formats that Linux can decode.

Sure; I've no problems with ARD and ZDF mediathek with Chromium (they use 
Flash); in any case, ffmpeg and MPlayer can play a hell lots of formats.  To 
quote from IT crowds: "Are you from the past???"

>> My goal is to have a computer which is as easy to use as a good Forth
>> version is. Win32Forth is my "Gold Standard".
> 
> I'm not sure how Gforth compares to Win32Forth.  Gforth's Forth language
> implementation is quite complete, but I don't think it has much in the
> way of GUI library bindings.  It's more of an old fashioned Forth that
> you type to in a console window or in Emacs.  I know Bernd did an
> Android version so maybe that has a way to write Android GUI's.

That stuff (MINOS2) is still a lot of work in progress, but it will work on 
all platforms with OpenGL.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#29192

Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>> It's possible that ARD and ZDF use formats that Linux can decode.
> Sure; I've no problems with ARD and ZDF mediathek with Chromium (they
> use Flash); in any case, ffmpeg and MPlayer can play a hell lots of
> formats.

Hmm, I don't think ffmpeg or MPlayer can play Flash.  There is Gnash but
its capabilities were somewhat limited last time I tried it.  I just
figure that most Flash content (useless video on web sites) is crap so I
don't miss not being able to view it.  But there is a little bit of good
stuff that really should use HTML5 instead.

>> Android GUI's.
> That stuff (MINOS2) is still a lot of work in progress, but it will
> work on all platforms with OpenGL.

Interesting, though I guess it won't use the widgets found in window
systems.  PicoLisp uses the approach of using a web browser as GUI
through a local socket, with a special java applet for UI stuff.  I
think I'd skip the applet part.

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#29195

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>>> It's possible that ARD and ZDF use formats that Linux can decode.
>> Sure; I've no problems with ARD and ZDF mediathek with Chromium (they
>> use Flash); in any case, ffmpeg and MPlayer can play a hell lots of
>> formats.
> 
> Hmm, I don't think ffmpeg or MPlayer can play Flash.

ffmpeg has all codecs the three Flash movie formats implement.

In any case, even if they couldn't, you *do* have Flash on Linux.  Adobe's 
for Mozilla (stuck at 11.2) and the Pepper API version for Chrome/Chromium 
(even more recent versions).

>>> Android GUI's.
>> That stuff (MINOS2) is still a lot of work in progress, but it will
>> work on all platforms with OpenGL.
> 
> Interesting, though I guess it won't use the widgets found in window
> systems.

No, it's cross plattform, and will look identical on all platforms (of 
course, as a modern GUI, it supports all kind of styles).  The primary 
motivation for MINOS2 is to display net2o content.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#29200

On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 07:26:57 -0400, Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>  
wrote:
> Paul Rubin wrote:
>> Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:

>>>> It's possible that ARD and ZDF use formats that Linux can decode.
>>> Sure; I've no problems with ARD and ZDF mediathek with Chromium (they
>>> use Flash); in any case, ffmpeg and MPlayer can play a hell lots of
>>> formats.
>>
>> Hmm, I don't think ffmpeg or MPlayer can play Flash.
>
> ffmpeg has all codecs the three Flash movie formats implement.
>
> In any case, even if they couldn't, you *do* have Flash on Linux.
> Adobe's for Mozilla (stuck at 11.2) and the Pepper API version for
> Chrome/Chromium (even more recent versions).
>

The Opera browser uses the Shockwave Flash plugin too, or can
if it's not already installed.

VLC plays just about any video format, once you've installed
enough codec's for it.

The Opera browser can also be told to use VLC instead of the
default viewer setting for any mime type.  This is true for
both Windows and Linux.  Generally, I just set Opera to use
VLC for the common video formats.


Rod Pemberton

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#29202

Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
> ffmpeg has all codecs the three Flash movie formats implement.

Hmm interesting, I didn't realize that, I thought some still used secret
formats.


> In any case, even if they couldn't, you *do* have Flash on Linux.
> Adobe's for Mozilla (stuck at 11.2) and the Pepper API version for
> Chrome/Chromium (even more recent versions).

I wouldn't want to run Adobe flash due to closed source and history of
exploits and possibly intentional malware.  Not sure what pepper is?

> No, it's cross plattform, and will look identical on all platforms (of 
> course, as a modern GUI, it supports all kind of styles).  The primary 
> motivation for MINOS2 is to display net2o content.

Interesting.  Will it be able to use the underlying window system for
multi-window rendering and event detection, or will it do everything
itself?

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#29225

Paul Rubin wrote:

> Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> writes:
>> ffmpeg has all codecs the three Flash movie formats implement.
> 
> Hmm interesting, I didn't realize that, I thought some still used secret
> formats.

This stuff is pretty much history.  Today, flash videos are usually h.264.

>> In any case, even if they couldn't, you *do* have Flash on Linux.
>> Adobe's for Mozilla (stuck at 11.2) and the Pepper API version for
>> Chrome/Chromium (even more recent versions).
> 
> I wouldn't want to run Adobe flash due to closed source and history of
> exploits and possibly intentional malware.  Not sure what pepper is?

Pepper API is the plugin API from Chrome.

>> No, it's cross plattform, and will look identical on all platforms (of
>> course, as a modern GUI, it supports all kind of styles).  The primary
>> motivation for MINOS2 is to display net2o content.
> 
> Interesting.  Will it be able to use the underlying window system for
> multi-window rendering and event detection, or will it do everything
> itself?

I'm not yet sure if I want multi-window rendering at all.  The primary 
purpose of MINOS2 is net2o, and you don't want all these pop-ups, pop-unders 
and other multi-window stuff.  Since I need one window with rendering and 
event detection, supporting multi-window is not a problem, but I need the 
infrastructure to make an application work fine with a single host window 
(and this of course means "do everything yourself").  I'm not much convinced 
about multi-window programs; most users don't like them.

This stuff is going to run in a sandbox which has very limited access to the 
outside world.  You can fill OpenGL render buffers, you can create textures, 
you can receive mouse, touch and key events.  Opening a host window (other 
than the one you already got) is completely out of question.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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#29193

On Saturday, March 29, 2014 11:55:28 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote:

> It's possible that ARD and ZDF use formats that Linux can decode.

It's no problem to see ARD or ZDF ... for ten minutes.
After ten minutes the system starts to stall.
I guess allocated buffers are to small.
My overall experience is that Linux systems with graphical display need CPUs with much much more power than the CPUs my laptops have.

No wonder that it is recommended to use bare Linux without graphics.

But in this case I prefer ForthOS. 

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#29201

On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 01:58:40 -0400, <visualforth@rocketmail.com> wrote:

> [...]
> My overall experience is that Linux systems with graphical display
> need CPUs with much much more power than the CPUs my laptops have.
>

I doubt your laptop is insufficiently fast to display video.

If an old 500Mhz machine with integrated video can do video,
yours should be able to do so too.  I used that machine for
many, many years.


Open a Linux terminal window, type:

  whereis glxgears

If installed (part of Mesa library), it should report something like:

  glxgears: /usr/bin/glxgears /usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears /usr/bin/X11/glxgears  
/usr/X11/bin/glxgears

If glxgears was found, type the following in the terminal, and wait
a minute for an update.  It should report the FPS your hardware is
capable of in the window.

  vblank_mode=0 glxgears

Without the vblank_mode=0, it should cap the FPS near 60.


Rod Pemberton

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#29210

On Monday, March 31, 2014 6:18:27 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote:
>
> Open a Linux terminal window, type:
>   whereis glxgears
> 
I did. Here the log:

[bc@localhost ~]$ whereis glxgears 
glxgears: /usr/bin/glxgears 
[bc@localhost ~]$ vblank_mode=0 glxgears 
libGL error: failed to load driver: r200 
libGL error: Try again with LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose for more details. 
ATTENTION: default value of option vblank_mode overridden by environment. 
390 frames in 5.0 seconds = 77.982 FPS 
529 frames in 5.0 seconds = 105.791 FPS 
536 frames in 5.0 seconds = 107.122 FPS 
533 frames in 5.0 seconds = 106.520 FPS 
535 frames in 5.0 seconds = 106.892 FPS 
532 frames in 5.0 seconds = 106.291 FPS 
534 frames in 5.0 seconds = 106.757 FPS 
533 frames in 5.0 seconds = 106.492 FPS 
536 frames in 5.0 seconds = 107.092 FPS 
530 frames in 5.0 seconds = 105.984 FPS 
535 frames in 5.0 seconds = 106.999 FPS 
534 frames in 5.0 seconds = 106.653 FPS 
500 frames in 5.0 seconds = 99.802 FPS 
456 frames in 5.0 seconds = 91.050 FPS 
443 frames in 5.0 seconds = 88.402 FPS 
430 frames in 5.0 seconds = 85.782 FPS 
358 frames in 5.0 seconds = 71.537 FPS 
557 frames in 5.0 seconds = 111.215 FPS 
491 frames in 5.0 seconds = 98.168 FPS 
583 frames in 5.0 seconds = 116.494 FPS 

Then I closed the terminal, started a video, and again, after ten minutes it started stalling until the video screen was frozen. But this time I could leave without pushing the power button.

While the video was running, a horizontal bar under the picture showed a percentage number, starting with 100%, then 60%, then 14%, then 0% - then the stalling started.

May be the lines "libGL error: failed to load driver: r200" and "libGL error: Try again with LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose for more details." told me that I should have done something else.


I am wondering.

Reading all those comments, everybody knows something about those Linux systems.

It would be great to put all this knowledge together to start a Linux distribution which really works for non-experts like me - there are millions - and distribute a usable Forth with it. Wouldn't that be something?

Now there is the right time to do so. A few days left until Microsoft starts the disaster. Since all needed software is already written, this should be possible, because Linux license is GNU based IIRC.

This version could be offered to people who really are fed up with Microsoft's policy of abandoning XP but who are not yet able to deal with Linux - like me.

I could help in this endeavor with testing and spreading the word.

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#29212

On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 8:10:46 AM UTC+2, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, March 31, 2014 6:18:27 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote:
[..]
> Now there is the right time to do so. A few days left until Microsoft 
> starts the disaster. Since all needed software is already written, this 
> should be possible, because Linux license is GNU based IIRC.
> 
> This version could be offered to people who really are fed up with 
> Microsoft's policy of abandoning XP but who are not yet able to deal 
> with Linux - like me.

Instead of acquiring knowledge on this subject you pretend to be helpless
and demand other people for help. This shifts the problem from MS to those
other parties that, unfortunately for you, *like* acquiring (this type of)
knowledge and will despise your attitude if you do not repay them in the 
same kind. This is an age-old problem that is not unlike getting one's 
car and plumbing fixed.

You will suffer unless you adapt.

-marcel

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#29248

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 02:10:46 -0400, <visualforth@rocketmail.com> wrote:

> [...] people who really are fed up with Microsoft's policy of abandoning  
> XP [...]

Well, it only took two programmers, neither of whom worked for
MS, to develop Kernelex to extend Windows 98/SE to run applications
for ME, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, etc.

In the case of XP, there are probably a handful of former MS
programmers out there.  They might eventually decide to help
out XP users for free.  Or, they might be planning to offer XP
support for profit.  Many, many ATMs around the world supposedly
use XP. That means major banks will be in the market for mainenance
and security fixes for XP.  It's riskier for them to upgrade.


Rod Pemberton

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#29249

On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 7:16:52 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 02:10:46 -0400, <visualforth.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > [...] people who really are fed up with Microsoft's policy of abandoning  
> 
> > XP [...]
> 
> 
> 
> Well, it only took two programmers, neither of whom worked for
> 
> MS, to develop Kernelex to extend Windows 98/SE to run applications
> 
> for ME, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of XP, there are probably a handful of former MS
> 
> programmers out there.  They might eventually decide to help
> 
> out XP users for free.  Or, they might be planning to offer XP
> 
> support for profit.  Many, many ATMs around the world supposedly
> 
> use XP. That means major banks will be in the market for mainenance
> 
> and security fixes for XP.  It's riskier for them to upgrade.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rod Pemberton

Rod,

Thanks for this interesting information.

Now I hope that information about this help will be spread all over the world.

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#29253

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 02:10:46 -0400, <visualforth@rocketmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, March 31, 2014 6:18:27 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote:
>> Open a Linux terminal window, type:
>>   whereis glxgears
>>
>> [...]
>
> [100 FPS]
>
> Then I closed the terminal, started a video, and again, after ten
> minutes it started stalling until the video screen was frozen. But this
> time I could leave without pushing the power button.
>
> While the video was running, a horizontal bar under the picture showed a
> percentage number, starting with 100%, then 60%, then 14%, then 0% -
> then the stalling started.
>

100 FPS is pretty low, but should suffice.  I'm fairly new to using Linux
full time, so I'm not real sure where your problem is.  But, I'd start
by eliminating network setup issues, e.g., router, broadband modem, bad
Wi-Fi settings, etc.

Have you tuned any network parameters on your Linux system?

If not, you may need to adjust or add settings to your
etc/sysctl.conf file.  The sysctl.conf file on my Linux
system was missing many settings.

Search using Google or Yahoo for:
   linux tcp_mem rmem_max wmem_default

That should pull up articles for adjusting your networking.

I had to had a large number of settings, like 25, that were
missing, and use *HUGE* values for: rmem_default, rmem_max,
wmem_default, wmem_max, tcp_mem, tcp_rmem, tcp_wmem,, etc.
These values are much, much larger than the settings on the
webpages you'll find.  Those values are like for dialup.
I forget if they're a multiple of 1024 or 4096 ...


Rod Pemberton

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#29258

On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 8:10:50 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 02:10:46 -0400, <visualforth.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > On Monday, March 31, 2014 6:18:27 PM UTC-4, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> 
> >> Open a Linux terminal window, type:
> 
> >>   whereis glxgears
> 
> >>
> 
> >> [...]
> 
> >
> 
> > [100 FPS]
> 
> >
> 
> > Then I closed the terminal, started a video, and again, after ten
> 
> > minutes it started stalling until the video screen was frozen. But this
> 
> > time I could leave without pushing the power button.
> 
> >
> 
> > While the video was running, a horizontal bar under the picture showed a
> 
> > percentage number, starting with 100%, then 60%, then 14%, then 0% -
> 
> > then the stalling started.
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 100 FPS is pretty low, but should suffice.  I'm fairly new to using Linux
> 
> full time, so I'm not real sure where your problem is.  But, I'd start
> 
> by eliminating network setup issues, e.g., router, broadband modem, bad
> 
> Wi-Fi settings, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tuned any network parameters on your Linux system?
> 
> 
> 
> If not, you may need to adjust or add settings to your
> 
> etc/sysctl.conf file.  The sysctl.conf file on my Linux
> 
> system was missing many settings.
> 
> 
> 
> Search using Google or Yahoo for:
> 
>    linux tcp_mem rmem_max wmem_default
> 
> 
> 
> That should pull up articles for adjusting your networking.
> 
> 
> 
> I had to had a large number of settings, like 25, that were
> 
> missing, and use *HUGE* values for: rmem_default, rmem_max,
> 
> wmem_default, wmem_max, tcp_mem, tcp_rmem, tcp_wmem,, etc.
> 
> These values are much, much larger than the settings on the
> 
> webpages you'll find.  Those values are like for dialup.
> 
> I forget if they're a multiple of 1024 or 4096 ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rod Pemberton

I prefer to have a computer which works. I am not a systems or network programmer, I am a user.

Before I switched over to PC's - I did this because a laptop with terminal software was much smaller and easier to transport than my CRT terminal - I had my own Forth-computer, based on RSC-Forth. I never ever needed to tune the system, and it was a pleasure to program embedded systems with it (I have to admit: after I wrote my own editor).

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