Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.forth > #25546 > unrolled thread

RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report

Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth

Contents

  RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-06 14:12 -0700
    Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-06 16:54 -0500
      Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-06 16:02 -0700
        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-09-07 03:01 +0200
          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-07 03:21 -0500
            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-09-07 19:56 +0000
      Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-07 15:06 +0000
        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-07 19:01 +0100
          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-09 12:23 +0000
            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-10 12:01 +0100
              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-10 12:45 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-10 16:33 +0100
                  Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-11 15:02 +0000
                    Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-11 17:44 +0100
                      Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-13 11:58 +0000
                        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@nohavenotit.com> - 2013-09-14 22:47 -0400
                          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-15 16:05 +0000
        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-07 16:08 -0500
          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report mhx@iae.nl - 2013-09-08 03:21 -0700
            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-08 06:42 -0500
              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report mhx@iae.nl - 2013-09-08 04:51 -0700
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-08 07:02 -0500
                  Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-08 10:08 -0700
                    Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-08 12:47 -0500
                      Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-08 11:10 -0700
                        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-08 15:16 -0500
                          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-08 16:08 -0700
                            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-09 04:57 -0500
          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-09 12:41 +0000
            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-09 08:56 -0500
              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-09-09 14:20 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-09 09:27 -0500
                  Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@nohavenotit.com> - 2013-09-10 04:31 -0400
                    Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-10 05:11 -0500
              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-09 15:08 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-09 10:45 -0500
                  Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-11 15:21 +0000
                    Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-11 12:04 -0500
                      Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-11 17:46 +0000
                        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-11 14:45 -0500
                          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-13 13:00 +0000
                            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-13 10:46 -0500
                            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-09-13 17:44 +0000
                              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-14 15:31 +0000
                                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-14 10:33 -0700
                                  Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-14 12:39 -0500
                                    Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-15 15:05 +0000
                                      Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-15 08:32 -0700
                                        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-15 13:20 -0500
                                      Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-09-15 16:54 +0000
                                        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-15 17:02 +0000
                                      Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-15 12:54 -0500
                                        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-16 09:21 +0000
                                          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-16 08:39 -0500
                                            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-16 15:48 +0000
                                              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-16 15:03 -0500
                                                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-17 10:15 +0000
                                                  Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@nohavenotit.com> - 2013-09-17 17:24 -0400
                                              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-09-17 13:10 +0000
              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@nohavenotit.com> - 2013-09-10 04:30 -0400
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-10 05:14 -0500
    Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report mhx@iae.nl - 2013-09-07 03:22 -0700
    Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report mhx@iae.nl - 2013-09-07 03:32 -0700

Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →

#25653

Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> The weakly consistent models do not cut it, though; they may be ok
>>>> for some academics who have a nice puzzle to solve for writing a
>>>> paper on a small problem, but for producing software they are too
>>>> complex.
>>>
>>>This isn't academic anything, though: it's processors like ARM, which
>>>is arguably more mainstream than anything x86.
>> 
>> Mainstream when it comes to shared-memory processing?
>
>Sure: all those processors in phones.
>
>> How many ARM servers with 2 sockets have been sold?  How many with
>> 4?  How many with more?
>
>What does this have to do with servers or sockets?

Multiple sockets (or, more precisely, multiple CPU packages) means
that you have to go off-chip when you want to synchronize CPUs.  If
you have a weakly-consistent-with barriers model, barriers typically
become expensive when there are multiple sockets.

As for servers, most multi-socket machines are servers, but of course,
if you tell me numbers for multiple-CPU-package phones, that would
also count.

>> And ARM gets away with lots of nonsense.  They don't even have a
>> properly specified architecture (at least I could not find the
>> specification when I tried some time ago).
>
>I don't know why you had that problem: it's at least as well-specified
>as anything else I've seen.

I had that problem, because ARM does not have an architecture.  Every
chip has its own instruction set, and they leave it to the user to
puzzle the various specification pieces together.  To hide that
embarrasment, they don't make most of that unavailable to the public.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25658

Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> The weakly consistent models do not cut it, though; they may be ok
>>>>> for some academics who have a nice puzzle to solve for writing a
>>>>> paper on a small problem, but for producing software they are too
>>>>> complex.
>>>>
>>>>This isn't academic anything, though: it's processors like ARM, which
>>>>is arguably more mainstream than anything x86.
>>> 
>>> Mainstream when it comes to shared-memory processing?
>>
>>Sure: all those processors in phones.
>>
>>> How many ARM servers with 2 sockets have been sold?  How many with
>>> 4?  How many with more?
>>
>>What does this have to do with servers or sockets?
> 
> Multiple sockets (or, more precisely, multiple CPU packages) means
> that you have to go off-chip when you want to synchronize CPUs.  If
> you have a weakly-consistent-with barriers model, barriers typically
> become expensive when there are multiple sockets.

Sure, but the issues arise regardless of sockets and servers: as soon
as you have to communicate across domains you have 

> As for servers, most multi-socket machines are servers, but of course,
> if you tell me numbers for multiple-CPU-package phones, that would
> also count.
> 
>>> And ARM gets away with lots of nonsense.  They don't even have a
>>> properly specified architecture (at least I could not find the
>>> specification when I tried some time ago).
>>
>>I don't know why you had that problem: it's at least as well-specified
>>as anything else I've seen.
> 
> I had that problem, because ARM does not have an architecture.

Sometimes I wonder if you post this stuff for a bet.

That's not actually true.  There is a reference architecture, as
detailed in the Architecture Reference Manual, and there are
implementations which differ, although they must meet the architecture
spec.  You're confusing architecture and implementation.

Andrew.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25659

On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:00:40 GMT, anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at
(Anton Ertl) wrote:

>I had that problem, because ARM does not have an architecture.  Every
>chip has its own instruction set, and they leave it to the user to
>puzzle the various specification pieces together.  To hide that
>embarrasment, they don't make most of that unavailable to the public.

The ARMv8 Architecture Reference Manual is now public. ARMv8 is the
64 bit specification. It's over 5000 pages.

The ARMv7 manuals have been available for quite a while. The 
ARMv7-A profile is what is in most phones. The ARMv7-M profile
includes the Cortex-M3 and M4 CPus. Just to confuse things, 
Cortex-M0 is ARMv6-M.

You will have to register at arm.com.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25661

stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) writes:
>On Fri, 13 Sep 2013 13:00:40 GMT, anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at
>(Anton Ertl) wrote:

Thank you for supporting my points, Stephen.  I put your statements
next to the ones they support:

>>I had that problem, because ARM does not have an architecture.  Every
>>chip has its own instruction set, and they leave it to the user to
>>puzzle the various specification pieces together.

>The ARMv7 manuals have been available for quite a while. The 
>ARMv7-A profile is what is in most phones. The ARMv7-M profile
>includes the Cortex-M3 and M4 CPus. Just to confuse things, 
>Cortex-M0 is ARMv6-M.

I also like the page
<http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.subset.architecture.reference/>,
which contains highlights such as:

|ARMv7-AR Architecture Reference Manual
|[...]
|It also describes the later ARMv6 architecture releases for ARM11 processors
|
|ARMv7-M Architecture Reference Manual
|[...]
|
|ARMv6-M Architecture Reference Manual
|[...]
|
|The ARMv5 Architecture Reference Manual
|[...]
|It also describes the initial ARMv6 architecture release.

But at least this says for a number of CPUs what the right manual is,
which is better than the last experience I had with this stuff.

>>  To hide that
>>embarrasment, they don't make most of that unavailable to the public.
...
>You will have to register at arm.com.

Actually it seems that they don't make any of that available to the
public.  all the publically available versions I have found are
bootlegs.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25662

anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
> Actually it seems that they don't make any of that available to the
> public.  all the publically available versions I have found are
> bootlegs.

Dunno about the ARM itself, but I know ARM Ltd is quite secretive about
programming the Mali GPU found in some of the higher end ARM cores.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25663

Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
>> Actually it seems that they don't make any of that available to the
>> public.  all the publically available versions I have found are
>> bootlegs.
> 
> Dunno about the ARM itself, but I know ARM Ltd is quite secretive about
> programming the Mali GPU found in some of the higher end ARM cores.

They're a pure Intellectual Property company, so I suppose it's
understandable.  It does seem extremely odd to be so cagey about
telling people ho to program your processors, but it does seem to work
for them.  Having said that, the ARMv8 RM is now available to all,
albeit behind a click-through licence.

Andrew.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25675

Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>It does seem extremely odd to be so cagey about
>telling people ho to program your processors, but it does seem to work
>for them.

Well, I certainly won't use ARM in the assembly language course (part)
I teach.

>Having said that, the ARMv8 RM is now available to all,
>albeit behind a click-through licence.

Where?

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25676

On Sunday, 15 September 2013 16:05:26 UTC+1, Anton Ertl  wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
> 
> >It does seem extremely odd to be so cagey about
> >telling people ho to program your processors, but it does seem to work
> >for them.
> 
> Well, I certainly won't use ARM in the assembly language course (part)
> I teach.
> 
> >Having said that, the ARMv8 RM is now available to all,
> >albeit behind a click-through licence.

It's not a click through licence.

> 
> Where?

http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp "This document is only available in a PDF version to registered ARM customers." then "Welcome to ARM. Use this form to register for a customer account with ARM."

And so on. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25687

Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> wrote:
> On Sunday, 15 September 2013 16:05:26 UTC+1, Anton Ertl  wrote:
>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>> 
>> >It does seem extremely odd to be so cagey about
>> >telling people ho to program your processors, but it does seem to work
>> >for them.
>> 
>> Well, I certainly won't use ARM in the assembly language course (part)
>> I teach.
>> 
>> >Having said that, the ARMv8 RM is now available to all,
>> >albeit behind a click-through licence.
> 
> It's not a click through licence.

Ah, good point.  You need to register for an ARM account.  I'd
forgotten that.

Andrew.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25678

On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 15:05:26 GMT, anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at
(Anton Ertl) wrote:

>>Having said that, the ARMv8 RM is now available to all,
>>albeit behind a click-through licence.
>
>Where?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=armv8+arm

Stephen


-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25679

stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) writes:
>On Sun, 15 Sep 2013 15:05:26 GMT, anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at
>(Anton Ertl) wrote:
>
>>>Having said that, the ARMv8 RM is now available to all,
>>>albeit behind a click-through licence.
>>
>>Where?
>
>http://lmgtfy.com/?q=armv8+arm

Does not give me a manual, only a message "Enable javascript to use
LMGTFY.".

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25683

Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>It does seem extremely odd to be so cagey about
>>telling people ho to program your processors, but it does seem to work
>>for them.
> 
> Well, I certainly won't use ARM in the assembly language course (part)
> I teach.
> 
>>Having said that, the ARMv8 RM is now available to all,
>>albeit behind a click-through licence.
> 
> Where?

https://silver.arm.com/download/download.tm?pv=1448511

Andrew.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25702

Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>>Having said that, the ARMv8 RM is now available to all,
>>>albeit behind a click-through licence.
>> 
>> Where?
>
>https://silver.arm.com/download/download.tm?pv=1448511

|You have reached a controlled section of this website.
|
|If you are an ARM registered user, please login below. [...]
|
|If you are not an ARM registered user, please use the "Register for an
|ARM account" link to register. [...]

So it's not available to all, and it's not behind a click-through
license.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25705

Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>>>Having said that, the ARMv8 RM is now available to all,
>>>>albeit behind a click-through licence.
>>> 
>>> Where?
>>
>>https://silver.arm.com/download/download.tm?pv=1448511
> 
> |You have reached a controlled section of this website.
> |
> |If you are an ARM registered user, please login below. [...]
> |
> |If you are not an ARM registered user, please use the "Register for an
> |ARM account" link to register. [...]
> 
> So it's not available to all

AFAIK it is.

Andrew.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25706

Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>>>>>Having said that, the ARMv8 RM is now available to all,
>>>>>albeit behind a click-through licence.
>>>> 
>>>> Where?
>>>
>>>https://silver.arm.com/download/download.tm?pv=1448511
>> 
>> |You have reached a controlled section of this website.
>> |
>> |If you are an ARM registered user, please login below. [...]
>> |
>> |If you are not an ARM registered user, please use the "Register for an
>> |ARM account" link to register. [...]
>> 
>> So it's not available to all
>
>AFAIK it is.

You better tell this to the arm.com people, because on
http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ddi0487a/index.html
they claim

|This document is only available in a PDF version to registered ARM
|customers.

And if I click on the link, the website certainly behaves like that
(except that it the says "ARM registered user", not "registered ARM
customer", but that does not make a difference to me.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25712

Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
> 
> And if I click on the link, the website certainly behaves like that
> (except that it the says "ARM registered user", not "registered ARM
> customer", but that does not make a difference to me.

Do you want it or not?  If you do, register.  If you don't, then
don't.

Andrew.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25720

Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>> And if I click on the link, the website certainly behaves like that
>> (except that it the says "ARM registered user", not "registered ARM
>> customer", but that does not make a difference to me.
>
>Do you want it or not?

Not for that price.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25735

On Tue, 17 Sep 2013 06:15:30 -0400, Anton Ertl  
<anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:

> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>> Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:

>>> And if I click on the link, the website certainly behaves like that
>>> (except that it the says "ARM registered user", not "registered ARM
>>> customer", but that does not make a difference to me.
>>
>> Do you want it or not?
>
> Not for that price.
>

Just wait a while...

I found the ARMv7 Architecture Reference Manual
for free, without registration, in .pdf form four
different websites, two of which were for University
computer labs.  Try Google and Yahoo.  If you need it
faster, you'll likely find a Bittorrent link or find
it on Tor before Google or Yahoo.  Of course, it only
takes one of you to encrypt it (to prevent it from
being widely distributed to reduce the chance of being
caught for copyright infringement), post it to a
fileshare website, and email/telephone/text/twit
the link and password to the others you trust who
need/want it.  It's not that hard.  Decide if it
fits your morals.  Then, do or do not do.


Rod Pemberton

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25723

On Mon, 16 Sep 2013 15:48:49 GMT, anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at
(Anton Ertl) wrote:

>|This document is only available in a PDF version to registered ARM
>|customers.
>
>And if I click on the link, the website certainly behaves like that
>(except that it the says "ARM registered user", not "registered ARM
>customer", but that does not make a difference to me.

ARM want you to register (free of charge), and perhaps to enable
Javascript. Registration takes a few seconds, and you will be
approved. Although it's tedious, I can understand why an IP
company would behave like this.

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#25604

On Mon, 09 Sep 2013 09:56:06 -0400, Andrew Haley  
<andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> wrote:

> [...]
>
> C's volatile is useless.
>

I've never had any real problems with it.

The "volatile" keyword just tells the compiler to *not* optimize
away read or write access to the memory where the data is stored.

I.e., it's for memory mapped devices and their data, e.g., text
screen.  This can be used to ensure updated input from something
outside C application's scope is available to the application
without being optimized away, or to ensure data is written to a
memory location without being optimized away, etc.

I.e., you can think of volatile as "no register", "no optimization",
or forced read/write to memory.  It'll only be used with something
which is memory mapped and outside C's application space.  This
device will be undeclared within C's scope, i.e., typically
accessed via indirection on a pointer directly accessing memory.

E.g., if you output an incrementing integer to a memory mapped
text screen, the loop will appear to "do nothing" from the C
compiler's perspective.  It's not "aware" that the data _must_
be written to that address to be displayed.  There is no
declared C object representing the text screen since it's memory
mapped.  So, the compiler "sees" a useless loop that just increments
a variable or value which could be stored in a register.  The
compiler will optimized away the output to the memory using
registers instead.  After which, there won't be any text output
since the loop is no longer writing to memory mapped area for
the screen.

AIR, you mentioned this issue once previously and I responded
to it then too.  Should I stop?  It seems you still think
"volatile" is worthless when it has a valid use, unlike almost
all other the qualifiers in C, except "unsigned".


Rod Pemberton

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 3 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.forth

csiph-web