Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report

From	anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl)
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report
Date	2013-09-13 13:00 +0000
Organization	Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien
Message-ID	<2013Sep13.150040@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink)
References	(5 earlier) <_vmdnVjAG8aecLDPnZ2dnUVZ_oudnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Sep11.172119@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <kbudnRdw6fElP63PnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@supernews.com> <2013Sep11.194637@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <z4mdnVWD7MH6Va3PnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@supernews.com>

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Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>Anton Ertl <anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>> Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> The weakly consistent models do not cut it, though; they may be ok
>>>> for some academics who have a nice puzzle to solve for writing a
>>>> paper on a small problem, but for producing software they are too
>>>> complex.
>>>
>>>This isn't academic anything, though: it's processors like ARM, which
>>>is arguably more mainstream than anything x86.
>> 
>> Mainstream when it comes to shared-memory processing?
>
>Sure: all those processors in phones.
>
>> How many ARM servers with 2 sockets have been sold?  How many with
>> 4?  How many with more?
>
>What does this have to do with servers or sockets?

Multiple sockets (or, more precisely, multiple CPU packages) means
that you have to go off-chip when you want to synchronize CPUs.  If
you have a weakly-consistent-with barriers model, barriers typically
become expensive when there are multiple sockets.

As for servers, most multi-socket machines are servers, but of course,
if you tell me numbers for multiple-CPU-package phones, that would
also count.

>> And ARM gets away with lots of nonsense.  They don't even have a
>> properly specified architecture (at least I could not find the
>> specification when I tried some time ago).
>
>I don't know why you had that problem: it's at least as well-specified
>as anything else I've seen.

I had that problem, because ARM does not have an architecture.  Every
chip has its own instruction set, and they leave it to the user to
puzzle the various specification pieces together.  To hide that
embarrasment, they don't make most of that unavailable to the public.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2013: http://www.euroforth.org/ef13/

Thread

RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-06 14:12 -0700
  Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-06 16:54 -0500
    Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-06 16:02 -0700
      Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-09-07 03:01 +0200
        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-07 03:21 -0500
          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-09-07 19:56 +0000
    Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-07 15:06 +0000
      Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-07 19:01 +0100
        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-09 12:23 +0000
          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-10 12:01 +0100
            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-10 12:45 +0000
              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-10 16:33 +0100
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-11 15:02 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-11 17:44 +0100
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-13 11:58 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@nohavenotit.com> - 2013-09-14 22:47 -0400
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-15 16:05 +0000
      Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-07 16:08 -0500
        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report mhx@iae.nl - 2013-09-08 03:21 -0700
          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-08 06:42 -0500
            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report mhx@iae.nl - 2013-09-08 04:51 -0700
              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-08 07:02 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-08 10:08 -0700
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-08 12:47 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-08 11:10 -0700
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-08 15:16 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-08 16:08 -0700
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-09 04:57 -0500
        Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-09 12:41 +0000
          Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-09 08:56 -0500
            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-09-09 14:20 +0000
              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-09 09:27 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@nohavenotit.com> - 2013-09-10 04:31 -0400
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-10 05:11 -0500
            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-09 15:08 +0000
              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-09 10:45 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-11 15:21 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-11 12:04 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-11 17:46 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-11 14:45 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-13 13:00 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-13 10:46 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-09-13 17:44 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-14 15:31 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-09-14 10:33 -0700
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-14 12:39 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-15 15:05 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-09-15 08:32 -0700
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-15 13:20 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-09-15 16:54 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-15 17:02 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-15 12:54 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-16 09:21 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-16 08:39 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-16 15:48 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-16 15:03 -0500
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-09-17 10:15 +0000
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@nohavenotit.com> - 2013-09-17 17:24 -0400
                Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-09-17 13:10 +0000
            Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@nohavenotit.com> - 2013-09-10 04:30 -0400
              Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-09-10 05:14 -0500
  Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report mhx@iae.nl - 2013-09-07 03:22 -0700
  Re: RAFTS-like optimiser; progress report mhx@iae.nl - 2013-09-07 03:32 -0700

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