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who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor

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  who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor "dfnum2@gmail.com" <dfnum3@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 11:51 -0700
    Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor mentificium@gmail.com - 2017-04-10 19:04 -0700
    Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-11 10:42 -0700
      Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor Clive Arthur <cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2017-04-11 19:25 +0100
        Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-12 01:05 -0700
      Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-12 04:18 -0500
        Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-12 11:39 -0700
        Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-04-13 03:04 -0700
          Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-13 05:41 -0500
    Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 20:37 -0400
      Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-11 17:46 -0700
        Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 23:25 -0400
          Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-11 21:04 -0700
            Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 00:31 -0400
            Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-04-12 07:10 +0200
              Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-04-11 22:29 -0700
            Re: who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor Clive Arthur <cliveta@nowaytoday.co.uk> - 2017-04-12 08:54 +0100

#56944 — who can use a Harris RTX-2000 processor

Hi all,

I have an old controller board that contains a Harris RTX-2000 processor.  It's a PGA package, so not exactly breadboard friendly, but I thought someone here may want it.  The board worked when removed from service in the 90's, so the processor is most likely good.

This is a stack processor.  I had a manual for it, but I sent it to someone in the comp.lang.forth group to scan perhaps a decade ago or more.  I imagine it's online somewhere.

Would anyone here want it?  Priority for someone who may actually be able to use it, unlikely as that may be.

Cheers,

Dave

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#57031

On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 11:51:33 AM UTC-7, dfn...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have an old controller board that contains a Harris RTX-2000 processor.  It's a PGA package, so not exactly breadboard friendly, but I thought someone here may want it.  The board worked when removed from service in the 90's, so the processor is most likely good.
> 
> This is a stack processor.  I had a manual for it, but I sent it to someone in the comp.lang.forth group to scan perhaps a decade ago or more.  I imagine it's online somewhere.
> 
> Would anyone here want it?  Priority for someone who may actually be able to use it, unlikely as that may be.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dave

I don't want it myself, but my Forth AI -- http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=307824.307853 -- might want it after sufficient further AI evolution. Any other takers? 

ATM
-- 
http://medium.com/p/12c25b2570b2 -- How Strong AI recognizes an image

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#57052

On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 7:51:33 PM UTC+1, dfn...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have an old controller board that contains a Harris RTX-2000 processor.  It's a PGA package, so not exactly breadboard friendly, but I thought someone here may want it.  The board worked when removed from service in the 90's, so the processor is most likely good.
> 
> This is a stack processor.  I had a manual for it, but I sent it to someone in the comp.lang.forth group to scan perhaps a decade ago or more.  I imagine it's online somewhere.
> 
> Would anyone here want it?  Priority for someone who may actually be able to use it, unlikely as that may be.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Dave

Hi Dave,. we want to revive the RTX in FPGA as IP, so I would be very interested - would be to a UK address. It would help to have the real thing when designing the IP for FPGA - probably the Lattice Brevia Board first. When we have the board we would try to get all of the documentation scanned and ready - then partially part of the IP documentation.

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#57059

On 11/04/2017 18:42, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 7:51:33 PM UTC+1, dfn...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have an old controller board that contains a Harris RTX-2000 processor.  It's a PGA package, so not exactly breadboard friendly, but I thought someone here may want it.  The board worked when removed from service in the 90's, so the processor is most likely good.
>>
>> This is a stack processor.  I had a manual for it, but I sent it to someone in the comp.lang.forth group to scan perhaps a decade ago or more.  I imagine it's online somewhere.
>>
>> Would anyone here want it?  Priority for someone who may actually be able to use it, unlikely as that may be.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Dave
>
> Hi Dave,. we want to revive the RTX in FPGA as IP, so I would be very interested - would be to a UK address. It would help to have the real thing when designing the IP for FPGA - probably the Lattice Brevia Board first. When we have the board we would try to get all of the documentation scanned and ready - then partially part of the IP documentation.
>

I have a surplus MPE STE Powerboard with RTX2001AJC-8 in plcc if you're 
interested, and I'm in the UK, but it wouldn't be free.

I also have about ten RTX2000/2001 chips (some of each - can't remember 
the ratio) and a few PTSC1000's.

Cheers
-- 
Clive

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#57117

On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 at 7:25:58 PM UTC+1, Clive Arthur wrote:
> On 11/04/2017 18:42, JUERGEN wrote:
> > On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 7:51:33 PM UTC+1, dfn...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I have an old controller board that contains a Harris RTX-2000 processor.  It's a PGA package, so not exactly breadboard friendly, but I thought someone here may want it.  The board worked when removed from service in the 90's, so the processor is most likely good.
> >>
> >> This is a stack processor.  I had a manual for it, but I sent it to someone in the comp.lang.forth group to scan perhaps a decade ago or more.  I imagine it's online somewhere.
> >>
> >> Would anyone here want it?  Priority for someone who may actually be able to use it, unlikely as that may be.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> Dave
> >
> > Hi Dave,. we want to revive the RTX in FPGA as IP, so I would be very interested - would be to a UK address. It would help to have the real thing when designing the IP for FPGA - probably the Lattice Brevia Board first. When we have the board we would try to get all of the documentation scanned and ready - then partially part of the IP documentation.
> >
> 
> I have a surplus MPE STE Powerboard with RTX2001AJC-8 in plcc if you're 
> interested, and I'm in the UK, but it wouldn't be free.
> 
> I also have about ten RTX2000/2001 chips (some of each - can't remember 
> the ratio) and a few PTSC1000's.
> 
> Cheers
> -- 
> Clive

Hi Clive, please contact me by email epldfpga@aol.com, this would be ideal for us - depending on where you live I might come and pick it up.

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#57132

JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,. we want to revive the RTX in FPGA as IP, so I would be
> very interested - would be to a UK address. It would help to have
> the real thing when designing the IP for FPGA - probably the Lattice
> Brevia Board first. When we have the board we would try to get all
> of the documentation scanned and ready - then partially part of the
> IP documentation.

I presume that you have the full RTX reference manual.  If not, send
me a message.

Andrew.

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#57166

On Wednesday, April 12, 2017 at 10:18:42 AM UTC+1, Andrew Haley wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Dave,. we want to revive the RTX in FPGA as IP, so I would be
> > very interested - would be to a UK address. It would help to have
> > the real thing when designing the IP for FPGA - probably the Lattice
> > Brevia Board first. When we have the board we would try to get all
> > of the documentation scanned and ready - then partially part of the
> > IP documentation.
> 
> I presume that you have the full RTX reference manual.  If not, send
> me a message.
> 
> Andrew.

Thanks for the offer Andrew. I will see what arrives and come back to you. Thanks for the help everybody. As you have probably seen, Real Time Forth I just published - EP32 next and let's see when RTX fits in.

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#57223

On Wednesday, April 12, 2017 at 10:18:42 AM UTC+1, Andrew Haley wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Hi Dave,. we want to revive the RTX in FPGA as IP, so I would be
> > very interested - would be to a UK address. It would help to have
> > the real thing when designing the IP for FPGA - probably the Lattice
> > Brevia Board first. When we have the board we would try to get all
> > of the documentation scanned and ready - then partially part of the
> > IP documentation.
> 
> I presume that you have the full RTX reference manual.  If not, send
> me a message.
> 
> Andrew.

Clive, ( Andrew ), just opened my Easter present. Thanks Clive.
MPE RTX 2001 STE Power Board ISS B, Serial Number 1611
MPE RTX-2001 STE PowerBoard description booklet, A5 size, July 1989 rev 1.00, 38 pages,
Harris RTX 2001A Manual August 1989, 38 pages.
Are there any scans around? Would save me doing it again - and your print quality might be better. 
Andrew, scans appreciated, if so please send to epldfpga@aol.com. Any additional support appreciated. I now start as well to collect any additional info I can get hold of.

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#57226

JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 12, 2017 at 10:18:42 AM UTC+1, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> > Hi Dave,. we want to revive the RTX in FPGA as IP, so I would be
>> > very interested - would be to a UK address. It would help to have
>> > the real thing when designing the IP for FPGA - probably the Lattice
>> > Brevia Board first. When we have the board we would try to get all
>> > of the documentation scanned and ready - then partially part of the
>> > IP documentation.
>> 
>> I presume that you have the full RTX reference manual.  If not, send
>> me a message.
> 
> Clive, ( Andrew ), just opened my Easter present. Thanks Clive.
> MPE RTX 2001 STE Power Board ISS B, Serial Number 1611
> MPE RTX-2001 STE PowerBoard description booklet, A5 size, July 1989 rev 1.00, 38 pages,
> Harris RTX 2001A Manual August 1989, 38 pages.
> Are there any scans around? Would save me doing it again - and your
> print quality might be better.
> Andrew, scans appreciated, if so please send to
> epldfpga@aol.com. Any additional support appreciated. I now start as
> well to collect any additional info I can get hold of.

The programmer's reference manual is about 130 pages, with full
instruction set details.

Andrew.

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#57077

On 4/9/2017 2:51 PM, dfnum2@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have an old controller board that contains a Harris RTX-2000 processor.  It's a PGA package, so not exactly breadboard friendly, but I thought someone here may want it.  The board worked when removed from service in the 90's, so the processor is most likely good.
>
> This is a stack processor.  I had a manual for it, but I sent it to someone in the comp.lang.forth group to scan perhaps a decade ago or more.  I imagine it's online somewhere.
>
> Would anyone here want it?  Priority for someone who may actually be able to use it, unlikely as that may be.

What can you tell us about the board it is on?  You call it a 
"controller board".  Is this a commercial product intended for a 
specific application rather than a evaluation board?

I'm a hardware oriented EE, so I have the skills to get it working 
although I have never considered a project using this device.

-- 

Rick C

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#57080

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> I'm a hardware oriented EE, so I have the skills to get it working
> although I have never considered a project using this device.

I think the idea was to find a taker for the chip itself, with the
caveat that it might be difficult to remove it from the board.  Someone
else mentioned a board with a socketed chip.

I don't think the parts are extreme rarities, and I doubt anyone wants
to build computers out of old units, but I can understand why having
some real ones would be useful to someone trying to develop an FPGA
emulation.

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#57089

On 4/11/2017 8:46 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> I'm a hardware oriented EE, so I have the skills to get it working
>> although I have never considered a project using this device.
>
> I think the idea was to find a taker for the chip itself, with the
> caveat that it might be difficult to remove it from the board.  Someone
> else mentioned a board with a socketed chip.
>
> I don't think the parts are extreme rarities, and I doubt anyone wants
> to build computers out of old units, but I can understand why having
> some real ones would be useful to someone trying to develop an FPGA
> emulation.

If it is on a board, that is leaps and bounds ahead of having a chip in 
your hand.  The board has to be set up for doing something and that can 
always be of benefit.  That's why a hardware background is an advantage.

I can see that Jurgen's friends would have more utility for the unit.  I 
offered to work with them once but I don't recall there was much I could 
do for them.  I'm good with VHDL, but I prefer to work from 
specifications rather than trying to divine a spec from poor 
documentation.  I'm not clear on what is available.

-- 

Rick C

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#57094

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> I'm good with VHDL, but I prefer to work from specifications rather
> than trying to divine a spec from poor documentation.  I'm not clear
> on what is available.

The RTX-2000 was space qualified if I'm not confusing it with something
else, so I'd expect it to be documented out the wazoo.  Maybe it's a
matter of finding some manuals for it and working from those.  If it
were me, I'd start with a software emulation.  Ymmv.

Why is the RTX-2000 interesting anyway?  Do people have old code they
want to run on it?  Do they want to write new code for a stack processor
just because it's cool?  If the latter, exact compatibility with the
RTX-2000 isn't as important.  For that matter, there's always the J1.

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#57099

On 4/12/2017 12:04 AM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> I'm good with VHDL, but I prefer to work from specifications rather
>> than trying to divine a spec from poor documentation.  I'm not clear
>> on what is available.
>
> The RTX-2000 was space qualified if I'm not confusing it with something
> else, so I'd expect it to be documented out the wazoo.  Maybe it's a
> matter of finding some manuals for it and working from those.  If it
> were me, I'd start with a software emulation.  Ymmv.

I'm sure there was lots of documentation.  I don't have any of it except 
for one document describing the instruction set which I seem to recall 
was a bit terse.  I don't recall seeing anything describing how it 
interfaced with the outside world.


> Why is the RTX-2000 interesting anyway?  Do people have old code they
> want to run on it?  Do they want to write new code for a stack processor
> just because it's cool?  If the latter, exact compatibility with the
> RTX-2000 isn't as important.  For that matter, there's always the J1.

The RTX-2000 had a complex machine instruction that could control 
separate parts of the CPU to allow multiple data movements in one 
instruction.  Again, I don't recall the details, but people often refer 
to it as supporting multiple instructions in one machine instruction.  I 
think that is a bit of an exaggeration, but perhaps technically true for 
a small set of parallel capable instructions.

-- 

Rick C

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#57104

Paul Rubin wrote:
> Why is the RTX-2000 interesting anyway?  Do people have old code they
> want to run on it?

Maybe CMForth?

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#57106

https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/stack_computers/sec4_5.html

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#57115

On 12/04/2017 05:04, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> I'm good with VHDL, but I prefer to work from specifications rather
>> than trying to divine a spec from poor documentation.  I'm not clear
>> on what is available.

https://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/hs-r/hs-rtx2010rh.pdf

> The RTX-2000 was space qualified if I'm not confusing it with something
> else, so I'd expect it to be documented out the wazoo.  Maybe it's a
> matter of finding some manuals for it and working from those.  If it
> were me, I'd start with a software emulation.  Ymmv.

The RTX2010 was the rad-hard version, but pretty similar otherwise. 
IIRC it had a multiplier and barrel shifter whereas the RTX2000 had just 
the multiplier.  I think both had 256 deep stacks.

The RTX2001 was a cheaper version and had neither barrel shifter nor 
multiplier, and smaller 64 deep stacks.  I used that one a lot.

> Why is the RTX-2000 interesting anyway?  Do people have old code they
> want to run on it?  Do they want to write new code for a stack processor
> just because it's cool?  If the latter, exact compatibility with the
> RTX-2000 isn't as important.  For that matter, there's always the J1.


Cheers
-- 
Clive

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