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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #55129 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-02-26 14:20 -0800 |
| Last post | 2017-03-01 12:16 -0800 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 83 — 14 participants |
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eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-26 14:20 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-02-26 17:57 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-26 23:15 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-26 22:04 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-27 02:49 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-27 11:15 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-27 13:10 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-27 16:51 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 22:47 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 21:15 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 01:08 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 23:21 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-01 03:22 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-01 13:45 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-01 15:42 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-03-11 14:33 +0000
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-11 11:06 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-03-12 09:58 +0000
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-12 03:42 -0700
Re: eForth specific words? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-03-02 15:37 +1100
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-02 00:40 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-01 21:57 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-01 03:13 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 03:29 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-01 10:49 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:13 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-03-11 12:39 +0000
Re: eForth specific words? pbro <peter040@sympatico.ca> - 2017-03-11 13:09 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-03-12 10:22 +0000
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-12 03:57 -0700
Re: eForth specific words? Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-03-12 15:03 +0000
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 09:42 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 10:27 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-01 11:12 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:19 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 14:34 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:16 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:08 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-03-01 11:22 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-03-01 11:29 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 14:54 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 18:00 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-03-01 13:33 +0100
Re: eForth specific words? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 06:19 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 14:17 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-03-01 09:54 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 14:21 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-27 11:08 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 09:17 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 09:38 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-27 12:34 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 14:23 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 11:49 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 15:14 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 12:39 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-27 15:04 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 14:31 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 17:44 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-27 23:11 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-27 23:22 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 01:26 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-28 00:58 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 10:24 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 01:25 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 03:44 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-28 09:56 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 14:16 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-28 20:03 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 12:12 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 14:19 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-02-28 16:49 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-02-28 15:07 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-27 14:19 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-02-26 20:15 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-26 20:15 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-02-26 18:20 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> - 2017-02-26 20:33 -0600
Re: eForth specific words? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-02-26 22:18 -0500
Re: eForth specific words? JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-02-27 03:19 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2017-02-27 08:08 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-02-28 19:30 +1100
Re: eForth specific words? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 11:43 -0800
Re: eForth specific words? jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2017-03-01 12:16 -0800
Page 4 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4] 5 Next page →
| From | Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 01:26 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <o938k1$um1$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55236 |
On 2/28/2017 1:22 AM, JUERGEN wrote: > On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 7:11:43 AM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote: >> Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: >>> This smells to high heaven, thanks but no thanks, I would find another >>> site to put that PDF file in that is less suspicious. >> >> Lots of us here can supply hosting space, but we'd need Ting's >> permission and it doesn't sound like he's up for that. >> >> I think this Kindle thing is unfortunate. I'd like to read some of the >> books, I don't mind paying money for them, but I don't use a Kindle and >> don't want to use one. I'd much rather get a plain pdf or epub. > > Just download the free reader for any screen you have including PC AS I STARTED before I bought a tablet to see what the eBooks would look like on a real tablet. If you buy one of the eBooks on the Forth Bookshelf YOU can read it on ALL 3 DEVICES at the same time for the price of one ... > five devices is what most books have. -- Cecil - k5nwa
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| From | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 00:58 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <23cc170c-3db0-4626-ba80-a3dd1e9f443b@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55238 |
On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 7:26:46 AM UTC, Cecil - k5nwa wrote: > On 2/28/2017 1:22 AM, JUERGEN wrote: > > On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 7:11:43 AM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote: > >> Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: > >>> This smells to high heaven, thanks but no thanks, I would find another > >>> site to put that PDF file in that is less suspicious. > >> > >> Lots of us here can supply hosting space, but we'd need Ting's > >> permission and it doesn't sound like he's up for that. > >> > >> I think this Kindle thing is unfortunate. I'd like to read some of the > >> books, I don't mind paying money for them, but I don't use a Kindle and > >> don't want to use one. I'd much rather get a plain pdf or epub. > > > > Just download the free reader for any screen you have including PC AS I STARTED before I bought a tablet to see what the eBooks would look like on a real tablet. If you buy one of the eBooks on the Forth Bookshelf YOU can read it on ALL 3 DEVICES at the same time for the price of one ... > > > > five devices is what most books have. > > -- > Cecil - k5nwa how many devices do you use?
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| From | Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 10:24 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <o9483t$avr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55245 |
On 2/28/2017 2:58 AM, JUERGEN wrote: > On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 7:26:46 AM UTC, Cecil - k5nwa wrote: >> On 2/28/2017 1:22 AM, JUERGEN wrote: >>> On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 7:11:43 AM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote: >>>> Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: >>>>> This smells to high heaven, thanks but no thanks, I would find another >>>>> site to put that PDF file in that is less suspicious. >>>> >>>> Lots of us here can supply hosting space, but we'd need Ting's >>>> permission and it doesn't sound like he's up for that. >>>> >>>> I think this Kindle thing is unfortunate. I'd like to read some of the >>>> books, I don't mind paying money for them, but I don't use a Kindle and >>>> don't want to use one. I'd much rather get a plain pdf or epub. >>> >>> Just download the free reader for any screen you have including PC AS I STARTED before I bought a tablet to see what the eBooks would look like on a real tablet. If you buy one of the eBooks on the Forth Bookshelf YOU can read it on ALL 3 DEVICES at the same time for the price of one ... >>> >> >> five devices is what most books have. >> >> -- >> Cecil - k5nwa > > how many devices do you use? > Five devices, I have many PCs scattered thought the house in different areas usually in clusters of 4 PCs to a monitor, I like to have one computer in each area have the books, then there is my laptop for traveling, otherwise it's not used at all. I have a lot of computers for various purposes mainly embedded work I found that many of the programmers/debug dongles clash with each other so I have PCs dedicated to various CPUs, that will eventually be cut down as I cut down on the CPUs that I will use. I tend to stop buying books from publishers that don't allow five locations as that makes it hard to work with, a bit unusual but it is what it is. I just did a major re-arrangement of PCs so I currently do not have 5 PCs loaded with the books but shortly I will decide where to put the 5th copy. -- Cecil - k5nwa
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| From | Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 01:25 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <o938i2$um1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55233 |
On 2/28/2017 1:11 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: >> This smells to high heaven, thanks but no thanks, I would find another >> site to put that PDF file in that is less suspicious. > > Lots of us here can supply hosting space, but we'd need Ting's > permission and it doesn't sound like he's up for that. > > I think this Kindle thing is unfortunate. I'd like to read some of the > books, I don't mind paying money for them, but I don't use a Kindle and > don't want to use one. I'd much rather get a plain pdf or epub. > At the time I was not aware that it was a copy of the Ting book, he does have some Public Domain software and documentation, most is not however. As soon as the Zen book for MSP430 came out some time back I purchase a legal copy, unfortunately it's only available on Amazon, I have over 150 Publications bought and paid on Amazon because they are not available otherwise but I'm not a happy camper. Amazon at any time and for whatever reason delete a book from your device I do not believe in that concept, I bought it and it's my copy. Mostly I read them on my PC as the screen on the players are quite small however the device is handy when I travel locally and might have some waiting such as a doctors visit otherwise I use a 27" or 30" screen on my PCs. The problem authors see is that .pdf or .epub files are not protected so users can give a friend a copy or post them on the Internet. Forth is too small a market to be able to have that possibility. -- Cecil - k5nwa
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 03:44 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <87bmtmilpt.fsf@nightsong.com> |
| In reply to | #55237 |
Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: > The problem authors see is that .pdf or .epub files are not protected > so users can give a friend a copy or post them on the Internet. Forth > is too small a market to be able to have that possibility. As we see with this MSP430 Eforth book, someone did that anyway, so the Kindle format was of no help in preventing it. I'm not aware of a FOSS Kindle reading program. That would defeat the already-defeated purpose of the Kindle copy protection. [JUERGEN] > Just download the free reader for any screen you have including PC They are all closed source as far as I know. I've bought a number of plain pdf ebooks from Wrox and others, and there's never been a problem. They do fine selling them without copy protection. So I'm happy to not use a Kindle.
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| From | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 09:56 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <d53a4331-1205-4ceb-96d2-f2ccd39bd9f5@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55261 |
On Tuesday, February 28, 2017 at 11:44:15 AM UTC, Paul Rubin wrote: > Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: > > The problem authors see is that .pdf or .epub files are not protected > > so users can give a friend a copy or post them on the Internet. Forth > > is too small a market to be able to have that possibility. > > As we see with this MSP430 Eforth book, someone did that anyway, so the > Kindle format was of no help in preventing it. > > I'm not aware of a FOSS Kindle reading program. That would defeat the > already-defeated purpose of the Kindle copy protection. > > [JUERGEN] > > Just download the free reader for any screen you have including PC > > They are all closed source as far as I know. > > I've bought a number of plain pdf ebooks from Wrox and others, and > there's never been a problem. They do fine selling them without copy > protection. So I'm happy to not use a Kindle. Paul I am not clear what you mean? Is it that you support criminal copyright violation for the sake of the open source you want, or is it you only want to buy PDFs, that are unprotected and can be shared as you like? Sorry, I am a bit sore here as this is the second eBook of mine it happened to.
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 14:16 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <8737eyhsfe.fsf@nightsong.com> |
| In reply to | #55275 |
JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes: > Paul I am not clear what you mean? Is it that you support criminal > copyright violation for the sake of the open source you want, or is it > you only want to buy PDFs, that are unprotected and can be shared as > you like? I only want to buy unprotected PDFs that I can read with FOSS software on the devices of my choice. I don't want to depend on Amazon closed source software or devices to read the books.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 20:03 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <o956i6$ocj$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55278 |
On 2/28/2017 5:16 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes: >> Paul I am not clear what you mean? Is it that you support criminal >> copyright violation for the sake of the open source you want, or is it >> you only want to buy PDFs, that are unprotected and can be shared as >> you like? > > I only want to buy unprotected PDFs that I can read with FOSS software > on the devices of my choice. I don't want to depend on Amazon closed > source software or devices to read the books. I would support copy protection if it worked. The main issue is that there is always a way to bypass it. So it only keeps honest people honest. But also, I have never used a software license or a media copy protection that didn't interfere with use. I remember buying a CD that would play in my PC, but between tracks would emit a loud squeal which didn't happen in a CD player. Obviously this was part of the copy protection. I also seem to recall that Sony had to recall a bunch of CDs or something similar because their copy protection was too draconian and would prevent valid users from accessing the media. I guess the question is, how much money is lost on a Forth ebook not being copy protected? I know for a lot of software, if it is not protected a lot of people end up using it that don't pay for it. But very few of those users would pay if it were copy protected. I don't know how to measure something like this. -- Rick C
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| From | Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 12:12 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <o94eeu$3v0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55261 |
On 2/28/2017 5:44 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: >> The problem authors see is that .pdf or .epub files are not protected >> so users can give a friend a copy or post them on the Internet. Forth >> is too small a market to be able to have that possibility. > > As we see with this MSP430 Eforth book, someone did that anyway, so the > Kindle format was of no help in preventing it. > > I'm not aware of a FOSS Kindle reading program. That would defeat the > already-defeated purpose of the Kindle copy protection. > > [JUERGEN] >> Just download the free reader for any screen you have including PC > > They are all closed source as far as I know. > > I've bought a number of plain pdf ebooks from Wrox and others, and > there's never been a problem. They do fine selling them without copy > protection. So I'm happy to not use a Kindle. > The Kindle software phone home to make sure that specific book you want to read is allowed on the particular PC You can copy a book to another PC install the reader, and the book will not display as it's not on an authorized PC. There may be some software to remove the protection, I'm not sure but I would imagine there is, in that case it's easy but I have seen Tings books on the Internet before they were published by Amazon and other than the cover they were very similar, they come when one purchases the software from Dr. Ting, as part of the package you get unprotected PDF files that explains it all. I did not download the book in question but is it the Amazon version or the version Ting offers unprotected? I legally have 147 books from Kindle, 1/2 Novels, 1/2 Computer books with a few on Photography, I might look into how to un-protect them, not because I want to give them out, but I don't want to be at Amazons whims. -- Cecil - k5nwa
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 14:19 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <87y3wqgdqq.fsf@nightsong.com> |
| In reply to | #55276 |
Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: > There may be some software to remove the protection, There obviously is such software, since somebody downloaded the MSP430 Eforth book that Juergen uploaded, removed the protection, and put it on that virus site. > I legally have 147 books from Kindle, 1/2 Novels, 1/2 Computer books > with a few on Photography, I might look into how to un-protect them, > not because I want to give them out, but I don't want to be at Amazons > whims. It's supposedly easy to break the protection these days, though I don't know any details. I avoid the issue by not buying protected files in the first place. I'm fine with paying for ebooks but only if they are unprotected.
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| From | Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 16:49 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <o94umg$vqs$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55279 |
On 2/28/2017 4:19 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: >> There may be some software to remove the protection, > > There obviously is such software, since somebody downloaded the MSP430 > Eforth book that Juergen uploaded, removed the protection, and put it on > that virus site. > >> I legally have 147 books from Kindle, 1/2 Novels, 1/2 Computer books >> with a few on Photography, I might look into how to un-protect them, >> not because I want to give them out, but I don't want to be at Amazons >> whims. > > It's supposedly easy to break the protection these days, though I don't > know any details. I avoid the issue by not buying protected files in > the first place. I'm fine with paying for ebooks but only if they are > unprotected. > Not necessarily there is a version of eForth for the MSP430 on the Internet I once saw that seems like in was a preliminary version of the Amazon one, it was similar but not quite the same seemed like a work in progress instead of the final one sold. I don't know which version was available so I can't say 100% but if Juergen gave out some early copies for people to proof read before the final release that might be the source of the leak. -- Cecil - k5nwa
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-28 15:07 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <87tw7dhq2c.fsf@nightsong.com> |
| In reply to | #55280 |
Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> writes: > I don't know which version was available so I can't say 100% but if > Juergen gave out some early copies for people to proof read before the > final release that might be the source of the leak. I guess that is possible. Juergen would probably know how to tell, if anyone does.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-27 14:19 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <o91u09$59m$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55160 |
On 2/27/2017 1:04 AM, Michael Barry wrote: > On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 5:57:53 PM UTC-8, hughag...@gmail.com wrote: >> I gave up on eForth due to the lack of documentation. AFAIK, it is a good >> Forth system, but I don't have time to figure this stuff out through >> experimentation. >> >> Good luck! If you obtain any documentation, send it to me in private >> email. All I have is what I downloaded from the offete website, but it >> doesn't really tell me anything --- there is no reference document >> describing what all the words do. > > https://filescdn.com/af4f2d7tc76z/jsgsa.Zen.and.the.Forth.Language.EFORTH.for.the.MSP430.from.Texas.Instruments.pdf > > I know that Ray Duncan didn't have a very high opinion of Dr. Ting's > literature, but I find him to be entertaining and charming, in an > eccentric sort of way. Although it is probably politically incorrect > to say so, I found it helpful to read along in my head with a Chinese > accent. :-) When I try the above link I get a web page that tries to infect my computer. WTF??? -- Rick C
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| From | David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-26 20:15 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <ld6dnQ7ePbVFFi7FnZ2dnUU7-ePNnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #55129 |
On 02/26/2017 04:20 PM, Michael Barry wrote: > Hi all. I ran into the non-standard words FOR AFT NEXT while playing around > with eForth. I understand that FOR and NEXT are frowned upon by experienced > "old-schoolers" in a manner not unlike PICK and ROLL, but they're easy enough > to implement and understand. The problem I'm having is understanding how > AFT works and using it inside (or even outside) a FOR ... NEXT loop. AFT > appears to always be paired with a THEN but that's about all I have been able > to learn with any certainty. I have noticed in the examples I've found that > there aren't any words between FOR and AFT nor any words between AFT's THEN > and NEXT ... is this state of affairs mandatory or optional, and if optional > how would those intervening words act, generally speaking? > > TIA > > Mike B. > I am no expert but have been working on an eForth implementation for the Teensy 3.6 recently. Looking at the source it appears: The code between FOR and AFT gets executed once. The code between AFT and THEN is skipped on the first loop iteration but is executed on each following iteration. The code between THEN and NEXT gets executed on every loop iteration. It seems like a lot of trouble but the eForth Overview document shows several words that use it. -- David W. Schultz http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz "Life without stock is barely worth living..." - Anthony Bourdain
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| From | Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-26 20:15 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <31f67881-e71f-446c-a66a-a5c2099049bf@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55144 |
On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 6:15:57 PM UTC-8, David Schultz wrote: > ... > I am no expert but have been working on an eForth implementation for the > Teensy 3.6 recently. > > Looking at the source it appears: > > The code between FOR and AFT gets executed once. > The code between AFT and THEN is skipped on the first loop iteration but > is executed on each following iteration. > The code between THEN and NEXT gets executed on every loop iteration. > > It seems like a lot of trouble but the eForth Overview document shows > several words that use it. > > > -- > David W. Schultz > http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz > "Life without stock is barely worth living..." - Anthony Bourdain Thank you very much for your sincere effort to answer my question directly. And thanks to the others for taking the time to share. David, may I quote your answer on the 6502.org forum??? TIA Mike B.
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| From | Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-26 18:20 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <7730f706-e489-4e11-82b7-12c4e4d2454a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55129 |
On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 4:20:54 PM UTC-6, Michael Barry wrote:
> I understand that FOR and NEXT are frowned upon by experienced
> "old-schoolers" in a manner not unlike PICK and ROLL, but they're easy enough
> to implement and understand.
The problem with FOR ... NEXT is that there are different variants of
it and, since the whole point of it is to make more efficient use of
the looping instructions available to a platform, there really must be
different variants. That just means that if you share code using it,
you should also document how you're expecting this word to actually
behave.
The problem with PICK and ROLL is only that if you use them you're
*probably* setting yourself up for a bad time. Deep stacks are hard to
deal with and these words *allow* you to have deep stacks without
making them any easier to deal with.
Anyway, eforthl.asm in
http://home.vianetworks.nl/users/mhx/eforth.html contains brief
documentation for all eForth's words.
; AFT ( a -- a A )
; Jump to THEN in a FOR-AFT-THEN-NEXT loop
; the first time through.
$COLON IMEDD+3,'AFT',AFT
DD DROP,AHEAD,BEGIN,SWAP,EXIT
I have no idea what that means though.
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| From | David Schultz <abuse@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-26 20:33 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <TfWdnctzmPeYDS7FnZ2dnUU7-LPNnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #55145 |
On 02/26/2017 08:20 PM, Julian Fondren wrote: > $COLON IMEDD+3,'AFT',AFT > DD DROP,AHEAD,BEGIN,SWAP,EXIT > > I have no idea what that means though. > It throws away the address left by FOR normally used by NEXT, compiles a forward branch (resolved by THEN) and leaves a target address (BEGIN) for NEXT to use as its branch target. -- David W. Schultz http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz "Life without stock is barely worth living..." - Anthony Bourdain
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-26 22:18 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <o905n1$e5u$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #55146 |
On 2/26/2017 9:33 PM, David Schultz wrote: > On 02/26/2017 08:20 PM, Julian Fondren wrote: >> $COLON IMEDD+3,'AFT',AFT >> DD DROP,AHEAD,BEGIN,SWAP,EXIT >> >> I have no idea what that means though. >> > > It throws away the address left by FOR normally used by NEXT, compiles a > forward branch (resolved by THEN) and leaves a target address (BEGIN) > for NEXT to use as its branch target. FOR AFT THEN NEXT is one of the most bizarre control structures I've ever seen. I see no reason at all to have code executed once on the first pass. It could just as well be placed *outside* the control structure. With that code removed from the loop instead of jumping into the middle of the loop (where the THEN is) just rotate the code in the loop and make it like a WHILE loop. I supposed FOR NEXT is a counted loop rather than a conditional loop? Then I suppose the function of NEXT could be replaced by two words, one to increment the loop variable and conditionally exit from the middle of the loop with a word at the loop end like REPEAT. So like BEGIN ... WHILE ... REPEAT but with a words to make it a counting loop, FOR ... NEXIT ... REPEAT I suppose the one thing this does not provide is for access to the loop counter in the code between FOR and AFT which is now outside the loop. But then it should be a very simple matter for the programmer to know that loop value and program accordingly. -- Rick C
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| From | JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-27 03:19 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <7cfed9e3-9c0b-40b2-9b1f-f0ac74c1fd10@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55129 |
On Sunday, February 26, 2017 at 10:20:54 PM UTC, Michael Barry wrote: > Hi all. I ran into the non-standard words FOR AFT NEXT while playing around > with eForth. I understand that FOR and NEXT are frowned upon by experienced > "old-schoolers" in a manner not unlike PICK and ROLL, but they're easy enough > to implement and understand. The problem I'm having is understanding how > AFT works and using it inside (or even outside) a FOR ... NEXT loop. AFT > appears to always be paired with a THEN but that's about all I have been able > to learn with any certainty. I have noticed in the examples I've found that > there aren't any words between FOR and AFT nor any words between AFT's THEN > and NEXT ... is this state of affairs mandatory or optional, and if optional > how would those intervening words act, generally speaking? > > TIA > > Mike B. And for anybody to see the first page of his illegal forwarding: I wonder if for a Systems Analyst at Pepsi Cola there is no Work Ethos for their employers, the best is probably if I ask them directly ( amazon or Kindle might do this anyway without my involvement ) This eBook is part of a series about the computer language Forth. C.H. Ting has kindly allowed to have this writing published as eBook. Copyright Dr. C. H. Ting - September 2016 The current Series of Forth eBooks as of September 2016, see them all at https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B00N8HVEZM Additional information is often found at www.Forth-eV.de Early Years Charles H. Moore Programming a Problem Oriented Language Charles H. Moore MPE Forth Lite Tutorial Leo Wong – Juergen Pintaske - Stephen Pelc Programming Forth Stephen Pelc, MPE eForth Overview Dr. Chen-Hanson Ting Zen and the Forth Language Dr. Chen-Hanson Ting (this eBook_v10) https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/en:projects:430eforth:start for IDE and eForth code image download
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| From | Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-02-27 08:08 -0800 |
| Message-ID | <d03c63ce-d074-43f2-8d69-1e225c591013@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #55171 |
On Monday, February 27, 2017 at 3:19:12 AM UTC-8, JUERGEN wrote: > ... > And for anybody to see the first page of his illegal forwarding: > > I wonder if for a Systems Analyst at Pepsi Cola there is no Work Ethos > for their employers, the best is probably if I ask them directly ( > amazon or Kindle might do this anyway without my involvement ) > > This eBook is part of a series > about the computer language Forth. > C.H. Ting has kindly allowed > to have this writing published as eBook. > Copyright Dr. C. H. Ting - September 2016 > The current Series of Forth eBooks > as of September 2016, see them all at > https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B00N8HVEZM > Additional information is often found at www.Forth-eV.de > Early Years > Charles H. Moore > Programming a Problem Oriented Language > Charles H. Moore > MPE Forth Lite Tutorial > Leo Wong – Juergen Pintaske - Stephen Pelc > Programming Forth > Stephen Pelc, MPE > eForth Overview > Dr. Chen-Hanson Ting > Zen and the Forth Language > Dr. Chen-Hanson Ting (this eBook_v10) > https://wiki.forth-ev.de/doku.php/en:projects:430eforth:start > for IDE and eForth code image download Oh dear, I'm terribly sorry, Juergen! I just followed a generic eForth search string to that link, and had no idea that it was illegal! I am deleting any references to it that I made, and I am offering you my sincere apology and my promise that I won't do it again. Mike B.
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