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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #41407 > unrolled thread

New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot

Started byBernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
First post2015-08-20 01:58 +0200
Last post2015-08-23 05:34 -0700
Articles 6 on this page of 46 — 15 participants

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  New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-20 01:58 +0200
    Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-08-20 09:41 +0100
      Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-20 14:21 +0200
      Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-20 18:54 +0200
        Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-20 20:12 +0200
    Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Marc Christiansen <usenetmail@solar-empire.de> - 2015-08-20 20:42 +0200
      Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-20 22:45 +0200
    Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot peter.m.falth@gmail.com - 2015-08-21 11:47 -0700
      Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-21 23:23 +0200
      Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-22 00:28 +0200
        Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot borota@gmail.com - 2015-08-23 10:38 -0700
          Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-23 23:53 +0200
            Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot borota@gmail.com - 2015-08-23 15:25 -0700
              Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 18:42 -0400
                Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot borota@gmail.com - 2015-08-23 16:43 -0700
                  Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 19:53 -0400
                    Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-08-24 01:58 +0200
              Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-24 02:05 +0200
                Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot borota@gmail.com - 2015-08-23 18:16 -0700
                  Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot borota@gmail.com - 2015-08-23 18:34 -0700
                    Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 22:10 -0400
                      Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot borota@gmail.com - 2015-08-23 19:30 -0700
                        Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 20:27 -0700
                          Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot borota@gmail.com - 2015-08-23 21:05 -0700
                            Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 21:20 -0700
                        Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-24 07:10 +0000
                          Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-24 15:17 +0200
                            Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-08-24 15:21 +0000
                              Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-08-24 17:36 +0200
                    Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 19:12 -0700
                  Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-23 22:10 -0400
                    Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-08-23 22:11 -1000
                      Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 01:37 -0700
                        Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 08:57 -0400
                        Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-08-24 11:13 -1000
                          Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 03:09 -0700
                          Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot borota@gmail.com - 2015-08-25 19:34 -0700
                            Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-08-25 21:38 -1000
                            Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-09-01 21:57 +1000
                              Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-09-01 16:15 +0200
                                Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-09-03 16:05 +1000
                                  Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot dunno <dunno@dunno.dunno> - 2015-09-05 03:25 +0000
                                    Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-09-05 21:33 +1000
                                      Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot dunno <dunno@dunno.dunno> - 2015-09-05 18:07 +0000
              Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-08-23 22:01 -1000
      Re: New Gforth "qixi" Snapshot jkn_gg@nicorp.f9.co.uk - 2015-08-23 05:34 -0700

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#41690

From"HAA" <someone@microsoft.com>
Date2015-09-03 16:05 +1000
Message-ID<ms8nrv$ea$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#41640
Coos Haak wrote:
> Op Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:57:18 +1000 schreef HAA:
>
> > borota@gmail.com wrote:
> >> ...
> >> I was confused by the fact that I was not setting base to 16 myself. 'see'
> >> command in Gforth was failing and left the base flipped to 16 without me
> >> realizing it. I surely learned something out of that. In latest snapshot
> >> they fixed the issue though.
> >
> > LMI Forth changes base to decimal after ABORT.  You want to work in hex,
> > mis-type something, and bingo you're in decimal !  It threw me every time.
>
> Most implementations don't touch BASE.
> Setting BASE to 1 and then printing a number mostly
> gives overflow in <# .. #>
> Setting BASE to 0 may give a division exception.
>
> I have this code in my error-recovery
>   BASE @ 37 2 WITHIN IF DECIMAL THEN
> so BASE is only changed if somehow a program tries
> to set BASE to a wrong number. There is an exception
> when printing a number but afterwards we are in decimal.
>
> groet Coos

Assuming 0 or 1 doesn't crash the system first :)  In practice
nobody sets BASE to a value they don't intend to use.

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#41741

Fromdunno <dunno@dunno.dunno>
Date2015-09-05 03:25 +0000
Message-ID<msdnbs$l7g$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#41690
"HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote:
> Coos Haak wrote:
>> Op Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:57:18 +1000 schreef HAA:
>> 
>>> borota@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> I was confused by the fact that I was not setting base to 16 myself. 'see'
>>>> command in Gforth was failing and left the base flipped to 16 without me
>>>> realizing it. I surely learned something out of that. In latest snapshot
>>>> they fixed the issue though.
>>> 
>>> LMI Forth changes base to decimal after ABORT.  You want to work in hex,
>>> mis-type something, and bingo you're in decimal !  It threw me every time.
>> 
>> Most implementations don't touch BASE.
>> Setting BASE to 1 and then printing a number mostly
>> gives overflow in <# .. #>
>> Setting BASE to 0 may give a division exception.
>> 
>> I have this code in my error-recovery
>>   BASE @ 37 2 WITHIN IF DECIMAL THEN
>> so BASE is only changed if somehow a program tries
>> to set BASE to a wrong number. There is an exception
>> when printing a number but afterwards we are in decimal.
>> 
>> groet Coos
> 
> Assuming 0 or 1 doesn't crash the system first :)  In practice
> nobody sets BASE to a value they don't intend to use.

IIRC ANS standard specify BASE value as number in range 2..32

-- 
dunno

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#41755

From"HAA" <someone@microsoft.com>
Date2015-09-05 21:33 +1000
Message-ID<msejr4$pjv$1@speranza.aioe.org>
In reply to#41741
dunno wrote:
> "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote:
> > Coos Haak wrote:
> >> Op Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:57:18 +1000 schreef HAA:
> >>
> >>> borota@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> ...
> >>>> I was confused by the fact that I was not setting base to 16 myself. 'see'
> >>>> command in Gforth was failing and left the base flipped to 16 without me
> >>>> realizing it. I surely learned something out of that. In latest snapshot
> >>>> they fixed the issue though.
> >>>
> >>> LMI Forth changes base to decimal after ABORT.  You want to work in hex,
> >>> mis-type something, and bingo you're in decimal !  It threw me every time.
> >>
> >> Most implementations don't touch BASE.
> >> Setting BASE to 1 and then printing a number mostly
> >> gives overflow in <# .. #>
> >> Setting BASE to 0 may give a division exception.
> >>
> >> I have this code in my error-recovery
> >>   BASE @ 37 2 WITHIN IF DECIMAL THEN
> >> so BASE is only changed if somehow a program tries
> >> to set BASE to a wrong number. There is an exception
> >> when printing a number but afterwards we are in decimal.
> >>
> >> groet Coos
> >
> > Assuming 0 or 1 doesn't crash the system first :)  In practice
> > nobody sets BASE to a value they don't intend to use.
>
> IIRC ANS standard specify BASE value as number in range 2..32

    6.1.0750 BASE
    CORE

            ( -- a-addr )

    a-addr is the address of a cell containing the current number-conversion
    radix {{2...36}}.

36 (10 digits + 26 letters) allows numbers to be printed using the characters
'0'..'9' 'A'..'Z'

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#41775

Fromdunno <dunno@dunno.dunno>
Date2015-09-05 18:07 +0000
Message-ID<msfb11$avh$1@news.mixmin.net>
In reply to#41755
"HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote:
> dunno wrote:
>> "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>> Coos Haak wrote:
>>>> Op Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:57:18 +1000 schreef HAA:
>>>> 
>>>>> borota@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>> I was confused by the fact that I was not setting base to 16 myself. 'see'
>>>>>> command in Gforth was failing and left the base flipped to 16 without me
>>>>>> realizing it. I surely learned something out of that. In latest snapshot
>>>>>> they fixed the issue though.
>>>>> 
>>>>> LMI Forth changes base to decimal after ABORT.  You want to work in hex,
>>>>> mis-type something, and bingo you're in decimal !  It threw me every time.
>>>> 
>>>> Most implementations don't touch BASE.
>>>> Setting BASE to 1 and then printing a number mostly
>>>> gives overflow in <# .. #>
>>>> Setting BASE to 0 may give a division exception.
>>>> 
>>>> I have this code in my error-recovery
>>>>   BASE @ 37 2 WITHIN IF DECIMAL THEN
>>>> so BASE is only changed if somehow a program tries
>>>> to set BASE to a wrong number. There is an exception
>>>> when printing a number but afterwards we are in decimal.
>>>> 
>>>> groet Coos
>>> 
>>> Assuming 0 or 1 doesn't crash the system first :)  In practice
>>> nobody sets BASE to a value they don't intend to use.
>> 
>> IIRC ANS standard specify BASE value as number in range 2..32
> 
>     6.1.0750 BASE
>     CORE
> 
>             ( -- a-addr )
> 
>     a-addr is the address of a cell containing the current number-conversion
>     radix {{2...36}}.
> 
> 36 (10 digits + 26 letters) allows numbers to be printed using the characters
> '0'..'9' 'A'..'Z'

Yes, it's 36, thanks for correction.

-- 
dunno

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#41489

From"Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com>
Date2015-08-23 22:01 -1000
Message-ID<BdidnboF0K_pUkfInZ2dnUU7-UGdnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to#41469
On 8/23/15 12:25 PM, borota@gmail.com wrote:
> Nice you got it working.
>
> By the way, is it OK in Forth world that after some user(beginner) triggered errors, to have not even the most basic operations work any longer?
>
> 5 dup * . 19  ok
>
> That's with the snapshot I just downloaded - I was consistently getting that until I restarted GForth.
>
> I am trying to get my head around Forth people point of view that crashes/access violation errors/lost work/errors like this? are ok when developing. But it's still hard to get used to it, given that the the tools that I am using for work, that pretty much never happens. It's hard not to feel like time has been turned back when immersing myself into Forth world...

The concept is that the programmer has more freedom, coupled with more 
responsibility, than with some other languages. Depending on the system 
you're using, it shouldn't take more than a second or so to reboot and 
start over. Your compiler is small, simple, and fast, and is not your nanny.

I taught Forth classes for many years. If the regulars here will forgive 
me for repeating an old story, at one point I developed a Forth that 
checked for all of the common newbie errors and issued messages. I found 
that students kept getting more and more frustrated at their programs 
not working. When I looked over their shoulders and pointed out all the 
error messages they were getting, they said, "Oh, yes, I get those all 
the time, I just ignore them." So I took the checks out. When the 
students had to reboot they learned something.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#41462

Fromjkn_gg@nicorp.f9.co.uk
Date2015-08-23 05:34 -0700
Message-ID<26ef2c38-17da-4a3c-a1bc-3f19b48622e3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#41444
On Friday, 21 August 2015 19:47:43 UTC+1, peter....@gmail.com  wrote:
> On Thursday, 20 August 2015 01:58:36 UTC+2, Bernd Paysan  wrote:
> > I've uploaded a new snapshot of the current git HEAD of Gforth into the 
> > usual place
> > 
> > https://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/gforth/Snapshots/ (http works, too)
> > 
> > Apart from the ongoing development, the Windows version contains a few 
> > changes:
> > 
> > * Gforth is started in a way that HOME points to the actual home directory 
> > (which in Windows is composed of %HOMEDRIVE% and %HOMEPATH%... WTF?), and 
> > thus all the user-specific stuff actually goes to your home directory - like 
> > history and such.
> > 
> > * I've added mintty.exe as terminal, which is clearly superior compared to 
> > the standard DOS box terminal.  Unfortunately, I haven't found out how to 
> > get rid of the DOS box Windows launches when it starts mintty (the 
> > workaround which is in mintty.exe itself only works when mintty.exe is 
> > inside a Cygwin install).
> > 
> 
> I am interested to understand why you think mintty is clearly superior?
> 
> I have been testing many alternatives to the windows console but in the 
> end always return to it. What I am really missing is a tabbed interface
> I found mintty to display faster but unable to run programs that use
> the console API correctly.  
> 
> > * I've started to generate bindings for system libraries using SWIG.  The 
> > first one that compiled on Windows was OpenGL ES.  As WGL is not yet 
> > generated, you can't open a context to work with it, but it's a start.
> > 
> > * Fixpath during installation now does really fix the search path, before, 
> > it was broken.  I.e. if you use Gforth outside Cygwin, from cmd.exe, you 
> > should be able to start it from any other working directory.  Make sure, you 
> > have set HOME as mentioned above.
> > 
> > If you have Cygwin installed, use the cygwin bindist tarball instead.
> 
> Could it be possible to include also the cygwin dlls in the bindist tarball?
> 
> On a company PC you are not always allowed to run installers
> 
> Thanks anyway for great work
> 
> Peter 
> 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Bernd Paysan
> > "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
> > net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ*
> > http://bernd-paysan.de/

Hi Peter
    FWIW This is the best 'standard' Console for a windows system that I have
found. It supports tabs amongst its many features; about the worst feature is
its search-unfriendly name ;-/

http://sourceforge.net/projects/console/

    HTH
    J^n

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