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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #34159 > unrolled thread

Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi

Started byrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
First post2014-10-26 12:02 -0400
Last post2014-10-28 14:06 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 130 — 29 participants

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Contents

  Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:02 -0400
    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 16:11 +0000
      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:20 -0400
        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 12:44 -0400
          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 17:09 +0000
            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 14:45 -0400
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-26 18:57 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 15:14 -0400
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-26 19:47 +0000
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:10 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:43 +0000
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:31 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-28 14:18 +0000
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:15 -0400
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 13:24 -0700
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:48 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Raymond Wiker <rwiker@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 22:12 +0100
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:20 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 14:39 -0700
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:46 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 15:11 -0700
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 18:25 -0400
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 15:58 -0700
                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:20 +0000
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi josv@planet.nl - 2014-10-29 07:02 -0700
                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-10-30 11:20 +0100
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:56 +0000
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 10:14 +0000
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 08:48 +0000
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:35 -0400
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-28 14:24 +0000
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-10-28 15:52 +0000
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 12:49 -0400
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Ray <ray@invalid.com> - 2014-10-28 17:22 +0000
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:02 -0400
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2014-10-27 10:07 +0100
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:22 +0000
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-27 11:30 +0000
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:37 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-28 12:41 +0000
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 12:51 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-10-28 18:44 +0000
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-10-27 11:49 +0000
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 17:51 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 20:31 -1000
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:01 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 21:14 -1000
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:45 -0400
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-27 22:14 -1000
                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 14:09 -0400
                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Mel Wilson <mwilson@the-wire.com> - 2014-10-28 21:50 +0000
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.Reid@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-10-29 00:01 +0000
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 20:50 -0400
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Ivan D. Reid" <Ivan.Reid@ivan.fsnet.co.uk> - 2014-10-29 01:20 +0000
                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-29 00:58 +0000
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-28 18:04 -0700
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-29 01:40 -0400
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-29 12:41 +0000
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 15:34 +0000
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-11-16 12:01 -0500
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-11-16 17:22 +0000
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2014-11-16 17:06 +0000
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 18:27 +0000
                                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 19:19 +0000
                                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 20:11 +0000
                                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-11-17 11:56 +0000
                                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-17 13:42 +0000
                                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-11-17 10:14 -0800
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 17:25 +0000
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Rob Morley <nospam@ntlworld.com> - 2014-11-16 17:40 +0000
                                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 19:12 +0000
                                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 19:50 +0000
                                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-11-16 21:22 +0000
                                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-11-16 17:38 -0500
                                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-17 00:12 +0000
                                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2014-11-16 19:53 -0600
                                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-11-17 01:00 +0100
                                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Alan Adams <alan@adamshome.org.uk> - 2014-11-17 12:03 +0000
                                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2014-11-18 20:03 +0000
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2014-11-16 18:20 +0000
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-29 11:53 +0000
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 06:52 -0700
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 12:02 -0700
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 15:18 -0400
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 20:24 +0000
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 17:09 -0400
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-26 22:05 +0000
                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 20:27 -0400
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 17:45 -0700
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 21:09 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 18:22 -0700
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 23:20 -0400
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-26 20:53 -0700
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-27 10:23 +0000
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 13:36 -0700
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi andrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) - 2014-10-27 22:23 +0000
                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-27 09:43 +0000
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 10:26 +0000
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-27 13:15 +0000
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-27 14:12 +0000
                              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-10-27 15:34 +0000
                                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 18:31 -0400
                                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 15:50 -0700
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 19:26 -0400
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 16:37 -0700
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 20:17 -0400
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-27 17:24 -0700
                                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 03:10 -0400
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:11 +0000
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2014-10-28 09:13 -0400
                                    Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:11 +0000
                                      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 04:14 -0400
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2014-10-28 08:15 +0000
                                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2014-10-28 10:22 +0100
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 15:53 -0400
                                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 17:10 -0400
                        Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 18:23 -0400
                          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Nomen Nescio <nobody@dizum.com> - 2014-11-15 23:09 +0100
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2014-11-16 00:35 +0000
                            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-11-16 00:06 -0500
          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-26 19:36 +0000
            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-26 16:24 -0400
          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-10-27 23:48 +0200
          Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi josv@planet.nl - 2014-10-28 05:27 -0700
            Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 16:02 -0400
              Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2014-10-28 22:57 +0100
                Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 19:54 -0400
                  Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-28 20:01 -0400
      Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi "A. Dumas" <alexandre@dumas.fr.invalid> - 2014-10-27 04:10 +0100
    QUESTIONS and ANSWERS pass in the dark  ;< - was [ Re: Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi ] Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2014-10-28 14:06 -0500

Page 1 of 7  [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7  Next page →


#34159 — Installing gForth on the Raspberry Pi

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-26 12:02 -0400
SubjectInstalling gForth on the Raspberry Pi
Message-ID<m2j5vj$rem$1@dont-email.me>
I have an rPi working on my desk and thought I would install gForth on 
it.  I found suggestions that this command should work...

sudo apt-get install gforth

But it didn't...  :(  Here are the error messages.  Any suggestions?  As 
you can likely tell I am a complete noob with Linux.


pi@raspberrypi ~ $ sudo apt-get install gforth
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
   gforth-common gforth-lib libffcall1
The following NEW packages will be installed:
   gforth gforth-common gforth-lib libffcall1
0 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 979 kB of archives.
After this operation, 2,703 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y
Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ wheezy/main gforth-lib 
armhf 0.7.0+ds1-7
   404  Not Found
Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ wheezy/main 
gforth-common all 0.7.0+ds1-7
   404  Not Found
Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ wheezy/main gforth 
armhf 0.7.0+ds1-7
   404  Not Found
Get:1 http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ wheezy/main 
libffcall1 armhf 1.10+cvs20100619-2 [12.9 kB]
Fetched 12.9 kB in 1s (12.6 kB/s)
Failed to fetch 
http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/g/gforth/gforth-lib_0.7.0+ds1-7_armhf.deb 
  404  Not Found
Failed to fetch 
http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/g/gforth/gforth-common_0.7.0+ds1-7_all.deb 
  404  Not Found
Failed to fetch 
http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/pool/main/g/gforth/gforth_0.7.0+ds1-7_armhf.deb 
  404  Not Found
E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with 
--fix-missing?

-- 

Rick

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#34160

FromGordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net>
Date2014-10-26 16:11 +0000
Message-ID<m2j6fh$sju$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34159
In article <m2j5vj$rem$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>I have an rPi working on my desk and thought I would install gForth on 
>it.  I found suggestions that this command should work...
>
>sudo apt-get install gforth
>
>But it didn't...  :(  Here are the error messages.  Any suggestions?  As 
>you can likely tell I am a complete noob with Linux.
>
>
>pi@raspberrypi ~ $ sudo apt-get install gforth
>Reading package lists... Done
>Building dependency tree
>Reading state information... Done
>The following extra packages will be installed:
>   gforth-common gforth-lib libffcall1
>The following NEW packages will be installed:
>   gforth gforth-common gforth-lib libffcall1
>0 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
>Need to get 979 kB of archives.
>After this operation, 2,703 kB of additional disk space will be used.
>Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y
>Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ wheezy/main gforth-lib 
>armhf 0.7.0+ds1-7
>   404  Not Found

Two possibilities here

One is that the archive is corrupt - unlikely...

The other is more probably - some of these packages have been updated, or
their dependancies have and have changed name/paths.

Try this:

  sudo apt-get update
  sudo apt-get install gforth

You might want to do a full update anyway:

  sudo apt-get upgrade
  sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

The latter isn't normally needed, but the foundation have added some
additional stuff into Raspbian to support the new web browser (IIRC)

Gordon

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#34161

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-26 12:20 -0400
Message-ID<m2j716$v8s$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34160
On 10/26/2014 12:11 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
> In article <m2j5vj$rem$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have an rPi working on my desk and thought I would install gForth on
>> it.  I found suggestions that this command should work...
>>
>> sudo apt-get install gforth
>>
>> But it didn't...  :(  Here are the error messages.  Any suggestions?  As
>> you can likely tell I am a complete noob with Linux.
>>
>>
>> pi@raspberrypi ~ $ sudo apt-get install gforth
>> Reading package lists... Done
>> Building dependency tree
>> Reading state information... Done
>> The following extra packages will be installed:
>>    gforth-common gforth-lib libffcall1
>> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>>    gforth gforth-common gforth-lib libffcall1
>> 0 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
>> Need to get 979 kB of archives.
>> After this operation, 2,703 kB of additional disk space will be used.
>> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y
>> Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ wheezy/main gforth-lib
>> armhf 0.7.0+ds1-7
>>    404  Not Found
>
> Two possibilities here
>
> One is that the archive is corrupt - unlikely...
>
> The other is more probably - some of these packages have been updated, or
> their dependancies have and have changed name/paths.
>
> Try this:
>
>    sudo apt-get update
>    sudo apt-get install gforth
>
> You might want to do a full update anyway:
>
>    sudo apt-get upgrade
>    sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
>
> The latter isn't normally needed, but the foundation have added some
> additional stuff into Raspbian to support the new web browser (IIRC)

The error messages said to try sudo apt-get upgrade so I did and it 
didn't help.  What exactly is that supposed to do?  Does it update data 
on my machine that points to the files?

I'll try your suggestions.  :)

-- 

Rick

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#34162

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-26 12:44 -0400
Message-ID<m2j8ed$4pb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34161
On 10/26/2014 12:20 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 10/26/2014 12:11 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>> In article <m2j5vj$rem$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> I have an rPi working on my desk and thought I would install gForth on
>>> it.  I found suggestions that this command should work...
>>>
>>> sudo apt-get install gforth
>>>
>>> But it didn't...  :(  Here are the error messages.  Any suggestions?  As
>>> you can likely tell I am a complete noob with Linux.
>>>
>>>
>>> pi@raspberrypi ~ $ sudo apt-get install gforth
>>> Reading package lists... Done
>>> Building dependency tree
>>> Reading state information... Done
>>> The following extra packages will be installed:
>>>    gforth-common gforth-lib libffcall1
>>> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>>>    gforth gforth-common gforth-lib libffcall1
>>> 0 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
>>> Need to get 979 kB of archives.
>>> After this operation, 2,703 kB of additional disk space will be used.
>>> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y
>>> Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ wheezy/main gforth-lib
>>> armhf 0.7.0+ds1-7
>>>    404  Not Found
>>
>> Two possibilities here
>>
>> One is that the archive is corrupt - unlikely...
>>
>> The other is more probably - some of these packages have been updated, or
>> their dependancies have and have changed name/paths.
>>
>> Try this:
>>
>>    sudo apt-get update
>>    sudo apt-get install gforth
>>
>> You might want to do a full update anyway:
>>
>>    sudo apt-get upgrade
>>    sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
>>
>> The latter isn't normally needed, but the foundation have added some
>> additional stuff into Raspbian to support the new web browser (IIRC)
>
> The error messages said to try sudo apt-get upgrade so I did and it
> didn't help.  What exactly is that supposed to do?  Does it update data
> on my machine that points to the files?
>
> I'll try your suggestions.  :)

Yes, that worked.  Seems I had trouble with the SUDO thing.  Last night 
I first used the apt-get command without SUDO and then had a series of 
errors that messed up when I tried to add SUDO.  Like I said, a total 
noob.  But I have learned a few things from this.

Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a 
window from and send text to it to be displayed.

Thanks  :)

-- 

Rick

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#34163

FromGordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net>
Date2014-10-26 17:09 +0000
Message-ID<m2j9st$9vv$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34162
In article <m2j8ed$4pb$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 10/26/2014 12:20 PM, rickman wrote:
>> On 10/26/2014 12:11 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>> In article <m2j5vj$rem$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I have an rPi working on my desk and thought I would install gForth on
>>>> it.  I found suggestions that this command should work...
>>>>
>>>> sudo apt-get install gforth
>>>>
>>>> But it didn't...  :(  Here are the error messages.  Any suggestions?  As
>>>> you can likely tell I am a complete noob with Linux.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> pi@raspberrypi ~ $ sudo apt-get install gforth
>>>> Reading package lists... Done
>>>> Building dependency tree
>>>> Reading state information... Done
>>>> The following extra packages will be installed:
>>>>    gforth-common gforth-lib libffcall1
>>>> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>>>>    gforth gforth-common gforth-lib libffcall1
>>>> 0 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
>>>> Need to get 979 kB of archives.
>>>> After this operation, 2,703 kB of additional disk space will be used.
>>>> Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y
>>>> Err http://mirrordirector.raspbian.org/raspbian/ wheezy/main gforth-lib
>>>> armhf 0.7.0+ds1-7
>>>>    404  Not Found
>>>
>>> Two possibilities here
>>>
>>> One is that the archive is corrupt - unlikely...
>>>
>>> The other is more probably - some of these packages have been updated, or
>>> their dependancies have and have changed name/paths.
>>>
>>> Try this:
>>>
>>>    sudo apt-get update
>>>    sudo apt-get install gforth
>>>
>>> You might want to do a full update anyway:
>>>
>>>    sudo apt-get upgrade
>>>    sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
>>>
>>> The latter isn't normally needed, but the foundation have added some
>>> additional stuff into Raspbian to support the new web browser (IIRC)
>>
>> The error messages said to try sudo apt-get upgrade so I did and it
>> didn't help.  What exactly is that supposed to do?  Does it update data
>> on my machine that points to the files?
>>
>> I'll try your suggestions.  :)
>
>Yes, that worked.  Seems I had trouble with the SUDO thing.  Last night 
>I first used the apt-get command without SUDO and then had a series of 
>errors that messed up when I tried to add SUDO.  Like I said, a total 
>noob.  But I have learned a few things from this.

You need to do the update first - that updates the local Pi's idea of
the package names and versions - then the upgrade/install knows the name
(and version) of the packages to pull.

>Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a 
>window from and send text to it to be displayed.

Other languages are avalable ... :-)

Gordon

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#34164

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-26 14:45 -0400
Message-ID<m2jfg5$ulh$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34163
On 10/26/2014 1:09 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>
>> Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a
>> window from and send text to it to be displayed.
>
> Other languages are avalable ... :-)

Meaning what?  Is using OS functions somehow easier in other languages?

-- 

Rick

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#34166

Fromandrew@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel)
Date2014-10-26 18:57 +0000
Message-ID<m2jg79$u4q$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34164
In article <m2jfg5$ulh$1@dont-email.me>,
	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> On 10/26/2014 1:09 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>
>>> Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a
>>> window from and send text to it to be displayed.
>>
>> Other languages are avalable ... :-)
> 
> Meaning what?  Is using OS functions somehow easier in other languages?

Always easiest in C because that's what the OS functions are written in,
but many other languages (which might be easier for some people to use)
can come close enough that other things can sway it in their favor.

You could do what you suggest by using tip or cu in a terminal window
(such as xterm) - no programming required other than typing the commands
into a shell, because the OS already contains the programs (originally
written in C).

OTOH, if your objective is to learn forth, that won't help one bit.

-- 
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

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#34169

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-26 15:14 -0400
Message-ID<m2jh87$69c$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34166
On 10/26/2014 2:57 PM, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
> In article <m2jfg5$ulh$1@dont-email.me>,
> 	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 10/26/2014 1:09 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a
>>>> window from and send text to it to be displayed.
>>>
>>> Other languages are avalable ... :-)
>>
>> Meaning what?  Is using OS functions somehow easier in other languages?
>
> Always easiest in C because that's what the OS functions are written in,
> but many other languages (which might be easier for some people to use)
> can come close enough that other things can sway it in their favor.

I'm still not following.  How does the language the OS was written in 
have any impact on the interfaces the OS provides?  This is an OS 
interface issue that does not require any recoding of the OS.  So why 
would I care what language the OS was written in?


> You could do what you suggest by using tip or cu in a terminal window
> (such as xterm) - no programming required other than typing the commands
> into a shell, because the OS already contains the programs (originally
> written in C).

I don't think you have grasped what I am trying to do.  I have a program 
that controls a device over a serial port.  It was written in Forth 
using OS specific calls (Windows).  It also opens a socket to 
communicate with a Telnet client to display bi-directional serial port 
data for debugging.  Again, this uses OS specific calls.

Now I wish to port this program to the rPi.  Rather than mess with 
sockets and a separate program as a terminal emulator, I am thinking it 
might be cleaner to keep it self contained and display the message 
traffic in a separate window opened by the Forth program.

Or maybe I am not following what you are saying.  How does tip or cu get 
what I want with no programming?  It sounds like they are terminal 
emulators.  I still have to code an interface to them.


> OTOH, if your objective is to learn forth, that won't help one bit.

No, Forth is already one of my tools.  Now I'm trying to learn the rPi 
environment from the viewpoint of Forth.

-- 

Rick

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#34175

Fromalbert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date2014-10-26 19:47 +0000
Message-ID<544d4fee$0$15829$e4fe514c@dreader35.news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#34169
In article <m2jh87$69c$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 10/26/2014 2:57 PM, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>> In article <m2jfg5$ulh$1@dont-email.me>,
>>      rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 10/26/2014 1:09 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a
>>>>> window from and send text to it to be displayed.
>>>>
>>>> Other languages are avalable ... :-)
>>>
>>> Meaning what?  Is using OS functions somehow easier in other languages?
>>
>> Always easiest in C because that's what the OS functions are written in,
>> but many other languages (which might be easier for some people to use)
>> can come close enough that other things can sway it in their favor.
>
>I'm still not following.  How does the language the OS was written in
>have any impact on the interfaces the OS provides?  This is an OS
>interface issue that does not require any recoding of the OS.  So why
>would I care what language the OS was written in?

That is a good point. For serial i/o you need a c structure called
termio. It has a field that specifies a a timeout in centiseconds.
Now in c you just use the c-name for that field. In Forth you've to
figure out whether the termio is an address or it contains the address
of the struct and what the offset of the field is.

c-based Forth have a lot of facilities around this, e.g. to interpret
c include files

[If you can find them,

Most of them are piles of
...

#ifdef __USE_GNU
...
#endif

#ifdef __USE_BSD
  #include <ttydefaults.h>
#endif

chasing you from the cupboard to the wall, as we say in Holland. ]

<SNIP>
>--
>
>Rick

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#34176

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-26 16:10 -0400
Message-ID<m2jkg1$hkm$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34175
On 10/26/2014 3:47 PM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> In article <m2jh87$69c$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/26/2014 2:57 PM, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>>> In article <m2jfg5$ulh$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>       rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On 10/26/2014 1:09 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a
>>>>>> window from and send text to it to be displayed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Other languages are avalable ... :-)
>>>>
>>>> Meaning what?  Is using OS functions somehow easier in other languages?
>>>
>>> Always easiest in C because that's what the OS functions are written in,
>>> but many other languages (which might be easier for some people to use)
>>> can come close enough that other things can sway it in their favor.
>>
>> I'm still not following.  How does the language the OS was written in
>> have any impact on the interfaces the OS provides?  This is an OS
>> interface issue that does not require any recoding of the OS.  So why
>> would I care what language the OS was written in?
>
> That is a good point. For serial i/o you need a c structure called
> termio. It has a field that specifies a a timeout in centiseconds.
> Now in c you just use the c-name for that field. In Forth you've to
> figure out whether the termio is an address or it contains the address
> of the struct and what the offset of the field is.
>
> c-based Forth have a lot of facilities around this, e.g. to interpret
> c include files
>
> [If you can find them,
>
> Most of them are piles of
> ...
>
> #ifdef __USE_GNU
> ...
> #endif
>
> #ifdef __USE_BSD
>    #include <ttydefaults.h>
> #endif
>
> chasing you from the cupboard to the wall, as we say in Holland. ]

Funny, when I did it in Win32Forth I didn't use any of that.  Someone 
provided some sample code and I tweaked it for my own use.  I'll be 
looking for similar sample programs in gForth.

-- 

Rick

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#34203

Fromalbert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date2014-10-27 08:43 +0000
Message-ID<544e05c6$0$6917$e4fe514c@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#34176
In article <m2jkg1$hkm$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 10/26/2014 3:47 PM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>> In article <m2jh87$69c$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/26/2014 2:57 PM, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>>>> In article <m2jfg5$ulh$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>       rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 10/26/2014 1:09 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a
>>>>>>> window from and send text to it to be displayed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Other languages are avalable ... :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Meaning what?  Is using OS functions somehow easier in other languages?
>>>>
>>>> Always easiest in C because that's what the OS functions are written in,
>>>> but many other languages (which might be easier for some people to use)
>>>> can come close enough that other things can sway it in their favor.
>>>
>>> I'm still not following.  How does the language the OS was written in
>>> have any impact on the interfaces the OS provides?  This is an OS
>>> interface issue that does not require any recoding of the OS.  So why
>>> would I care what language the OS was written in?
>>
>> That is a good point. For serial i/o you need a c structure called
>> termio. It has a field that specifies a a timeout in centiseconds.
>> Now in c you just use the c-name for that field. In Forth you've to
>> figure out whether the termio is an address or it contains the address
>> of the struct and what the offset of the field is.
>>
>> c-based Forth have a lot of facilities around this, e.g. to interpret
>> c include files
>>
>> [If you can find them,
>>
>> Most of them are piles of
>> ...
>>
>> #ifdef __USE_GNU
>> ...
>> #endif
>>
>> #ifdef __USE_BSD
>>    #include <ttydefaults.h>
>> #endif
>>
>> chasing you from the cupboard to the wall, as we say in Holland. ]
>
>Funny, when I did it in Win32Forth I didn't use any of that.  Someone
>provided some sample code and I tweaked it for my own use.  I'll be
>looking for similar sample programs in gForth.

The only thing you're saying is that those are c-based Forth's or
someone did the hard work for you. Neither detracts from the
fact that it is easier to do with c as a starting point.
(You know, I'm the author of an assembler based Forth.)

>
>--
>
>Rick

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34223

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-27 17:31 -0400
Message-ID<m2mdjm$lts$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34203
On 10/27/2014 4:43 AM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> In article <m2jkg1$hkm$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/26/2014 3:47 PM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>>> In article <m2jh87$69c$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/26/2014 2:57 PM, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>>>>> In article <m2jfg5$ulh$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>        rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On 10/26/2014 1:09 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a
>>>>>>>> window from and send text to it to be displayed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Other languages are avalable ... :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meaning what?  Is using OS functions somehow easier in other languages?
>>>>>
>>>>> Always easiest in C because that's what the OS functions are written in,
>>>>> but many other languages (which might be easier for some people to use)
>>>>> can come close enough that other things can sway it in their favor.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still not following.  How does the language the OS was written in
>>>> have any impact on the interfaces the OS provides?  This is an OS
>>>> interface issue that does not require any recoding of the OS.  So why
>>>> would I care what language the OS was written in?
>>>
>>> That is a good point. For serial i/o you need a c structure called
>>> termio. It has a field that specifies a a timeout in centiseconds.
>>> Now in c you just use the c-name for that field. In Forth you've to
>>> figure out whether the termio is an address or it contains the address
>>> of the struct and what the offset of the field is.
>>>
>>> c-based Forth have a lot of facilities around this, e.g. to interpret
>>> c include files
>>>
>>> [If you can find them,
>>>
>>> Most of them are piles of
>>> ...
>>>
>>> #ifdef __USE_GNU
>>> ...
>>> #endif
>>>
>>> #ifdef __USE_BSD
>>>     #include <ttydefaults.h>
>>> #endif
>>>
>>> chasing you from the cupboard to the wall, as we say in Holland. ]
>>
>> Funny, when I did it in Win32Forth I didn't use any of that.  Someone
>> provided some sample code and I tweaked it for my own use.  I'll be
>> looking for similar sample programs in gForth.
>
> The only thing you're saying is that those are c-based Forth's or
> someone did the hard work for you. Neither detracts from the
> fact that it is easier to do with c as a starting point.
> (You know, I'm the author of an assembler based Forth.)

I'm not sure what you mean by "hard work".  If you mean the few 
constants, yes, there is a file with them declared in Forth.  Otherwise 
is is just a windows system call with a data structure.  All of that is 
already a part of any Forth that runs under an OS.  How else could they 
get to the I/O?  Serial ports just use a few different constants.

You make it sound like it takes enormous work to find those constants 
and use them.

-- 

Rick

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#34250

Fromalbert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date2014-10-28 14:18 +0000
Message-ID<544fa5a5$0$6973$e4fe514c@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl>
In reply to#34223
In article <m2mdjm$lts$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 10/27/2014 4:43 AM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>> In article <m2jkg1$hkm$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/26/2014 3:47 PM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>>>> In article <m2jh87$69c$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/26/2014 2:57 PM, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>>>>>> In article <m2jfg5$ulh$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>        rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> On 10/26/2014 1:09 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a
>>>>>>>>> window from and send text to it to be displayed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Other languages are avalable ... :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Meaning what?  Is using OS functions somehow easier in other languages?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Always easiest in C because that's what the OS functions are written in,
>>>>>> but many other languages (which might be easier for some people to use)
>>>>>> can come close enough that other things can sway it in their favor.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still not following.  How does the language the OS was written in
>>>>> have any impact on the interfaces the OS provides?  This is an OS
>>>>> interface issue that does not require any recoding of the OS.  So why
>>>>> would I care what language the OS was written in?
>>>>
>>>> That is a good point. For serial i/o you need a c structure called
>>>> termio. It has a field that specifies a a timeout in centiseconds.
>>>> Now in c you just use the c-name for that field. In Forth you've to
>>>> figure out whether the termio is an address or it contains the address
>>>> of the struct and what the offset of the field is.
>>>>
>>>> c-based Forth have a lot of facilities around this, e.g. to interpret
>>>> c include files
>>>>
>>>> [If you can find them,
>>>>
>>>> Most of them are piles of
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> #ifdef __USE_GNU
>>>> ...
>>>> #endif
>>>>
>>>> #ifdef __USE_BSD
>>>>     #include <ttydefaults.h>
>>>> #endif
>>>>
>>>> chasing you from the cupboard to the wall, as we say in Holland. ]
>>>
>>> Funny, when I did it in Win32Forth I didn't use any of that.  Someone
>>> provided some sample code and I tweaked it for my own use.  I'll be
>>> looking for similar sample programs in gForth.
>>
>> The only thing you're saying is that those are c-based Forth's or
>> someone did the hard work for you. Neither detracts from the
>> fact that it is easier to do with c as a starting point.
>> (You know, I'm the author of an assembler based Forth.)
>
>I'm not sure what you mean by "hard work".  If you mean the few
>constants, yes, there is a file with them declared in Forth.  Otherwise
>is is just a windows system call with a data structure.  All of that is
>already a part of any Forth that runs under an OS.  How else could they
>get to the I/O?  Serial ports just use a few different constants.
>
>You make it sound like it takes enormous work to find those constants
>and use them.

To find one may be easy. To get everything working like it does in
Win32Forth or gForth is a gigantic task.

Here is an exercise:
   you can see that pipe is in man page 2 for linux
   That means that it must be possible to call it
   <1> <2> <3> __NR_pipe XOS
   where XOS is int80 : the generic system call.

   Now find the actual number __NR_pipe such that you can actually call it from
   Forth. Maybe you're very clever with this, but for me it takes time.

>
>--
>
>Rick

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34263

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-28 17:15 -0400
Message-ID<m2p132$7bu$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34250
On 10/28/2014 10:18 AM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
> In article <m2mdjm$lts$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/27/2014 4:43 AM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>>> In article <m2jkg1$hkm$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/26/2014 3:47 PM, Albert van der Horst wrote:
>>>>> In article <m2jh87$69c$1@dont-email.me>, rickman  <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On 10/26/2014 2:57 PM, Andrew Gabriel wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <m2jfg5$ulh$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>         rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> On 10/26/2014 1:09 PM, Gordon Henderson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Now I need to learn how to use gforth to open a serial port and open a
>>>>>>>>>> window from and send text to it to be displayed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Other languages are avalable ... :-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Meaning what?  Is using OS functions somehow easier in other languages?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Always easiest in C because that's what the OS functions are written in,
>>>>>>> but many other languages (which might be easier for some people to use)
>>>>>>> can come close enough that other things can sway it in their favor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm still not following.  How does the language the OS was written in
>>>>>> have any impact on the interfaces the OS provides?  This is an OS
>>>>>> interface issue that does not require any recoding of the OS.  So why
>>>>>> would I care what language the OS was written in?
>>>>>
>>>>> That is a good point. For serial i/o you need a c structure called
>>>>> termio. It has a field that specifies a a timeout in centiseconds.
>>>>> Now in c you just use the c-name for that field. In Forth you've to
>>>>> figure out whether the termio is an address or it contains the address
>>>>> of the struct and what the offset of the field is.
>>>>>
>>>>> c-based Forth have a lot of facilities around this, e.g. to interpret
>>>>> c include files
>>>>>
>>>>> [If you can find them,
>>>>>
>>>>> Most of them are piles of
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> #ifdef __USE_GNU
>>>>> ...
>>>>> #endif
>>>>>
>>>>> #ifdef __USE_BSD
>>>>>      #include <ttydefaults.h>
>>>>> #endif
>>>>>
>>>>> chasing you from the cupboard to the wall, as we say in Holland. ]
>>>>
>>>> Funny, when I did it in Win32Forth I didn't use any of that.  Someone
>>>> provided some sample code and I tweaked it for my own use.  I'll be
>>>> looking for similar sample programs in gForth.
>>>
>>> The only thing you're saying is that those are c-based Forth's or
>>> someone did the hard work for you. Neither detracts from the
>>> fact that it is easier to do with c as a starting point.
>>> (You know, I'm the author of an assembler based Forth.)
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by "hard work".  If you mean the few
>> constants, yes, there is a file with them declared in Forth.  Otherwise
>> is is just a windows system call with a data structure.  All of that is
>> already a part of any Forth that runs under an OS.  How else could they
>> get to the I/O?  Serial ports just use a few different constants.
>>
>> You make it sound like it takes enormous work to find those constants
>> and use them.
>
> To find one may be easy. To get everything working like it does in
> Win32Forth or gForth is a gigantic task.
>
> Here is an exercise:
>     you can see that pipe is in man page 2 for linux
>     That means that it must be possible to call it
>     <1> <2> <3> __NR_pipe XOS
>     where XOS is int80 : the generic system call.
>
>     Now find the actual number __NR_pipe such that you can actually call it from
>     Forth. Maybe you're very clever with this, but for me it takes time.

Your exercise is one sided.  What would it have taken for me to find the 
info with C?  It would have been a large task since I know virtually 
nothing about Linux in general.  You think it is easy because you have 
learned to do similar things and this is just applying the knowledge you 
have acquired.  I don't have that knowledge so the Forth example is not 
much bigger than with C.

To be honest, this is not a useful conversation for me.  I'm not really 
sure what your purpose is in pursuing it.

-- 

Rick

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#34179

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2014-10-26 13:24 -0700
Message-ID<7x7fzmy3xq.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
In reply to#34169
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> I'm still not following.  How does the language the OS was written in
> have any impact on the interfaces the OS provides?

The OS is written in C because the developers were C programmers and
they were the ones who got to choose the language.  They also got to
design the interfaces, so they designed them for the convenience of
other C programmers.  If they had been Forth programmers it would have
worked out about the same way.  Similarly for Ada or whatever.

> Now I wish to port this program to the rPi.  Rather than mess with
> sockets and a separate program as a terminal emulator, I am thinking
> it might be cleaner to keep it self contained and display the message
> traffic in a separate window opened by the Forth program.

I see what you mean now, but what you're describing is much harder than
just having a socket listener in your program, and telnetting into it
from another terminal window.  The point is that Linux comes with decent
terminal emulation apps (similar to the C:> prompt in DOS) and they
handle stuff like character i/o, scrolling, etc. for you.  If you wanted
to do all that in your application you'd have to deal with an immensely
complicated GUI library and reimplement the terminal in your program.

A middle ground migh be to launch a terminal window (xterm etc) from
your program and connect it up to a pseudo-teletype (pty) using the
xterm -S command line option.  Pty is a socket-like interface that
simulates a serial port and allows the system serial driver to handle
stuff like erase characters.  It's slightly complicated to program but
not horrendous like writing a full-on GUI.  I haven't done this
particular thing with xterm but it looks doable.

If this is just a developer app for your own use, I'd say it's simplest
launch both terminal windows manually.

Note: I've programmed lots of stuff on Linux, but nothing directly on a
raspberry pi, so I might miss some issues.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34180

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-26 16:48 -0400
Message-ID<m2jmnv$r3g$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34179
On 10/26/2014 4:24 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> I'm still not following.  How does the language the OS was written in
>> have any impact on the interfaces the OS provides?
>
> The OS is written in C because the developers were C programmers and
> they were the ones who got to choose the language.  They also got to
> design the interfaces, so they designed them for the convenience of
> other C programmers.  If they had been Forth programmers it would have
> worked out about the same way.  Similarly for Ada or whatever.
>
>> Now I wish to port this program to the rPi.  Rather than mess with
>> sockets and a separate program as a terminal emulator, I am thinking
>> it might be cleaner to keep it self contained and display the message
>> traffic in a separate window opened by the Forth program.
>
> I see what you mean now, but what you're describing is much harder than
> just having a socket listener in your program, and telnetting into it
> from another terminal window.  The point is that Linux comes with decent
> terminal emulation apps (similar to the C:> prompt in DOS) and they
> handle stuff like character i/o, scrolling, etc. for you.  If you wanted
> to do all that in your application you'd have to deal with an immensely
> complicated GUI library and reimplement the terminal in your program.

I hear you.  I don't need to implement a full fledged terminal program. 
  I can do something fairly simple really.  It could use wraparound 
rather than use scrolling for example.  Also, my protocol is query, 
answer, so I could easily display this on a split screen showing the 
lines side by side which I am doing now, but using ANSI codes to display 
in different colors.  White space would work just as well and be simpler.


> A middle ground migh be to launch a terminal window (xterm etc) from
> your program and connect it up to a pseudo-teletype (pty) using the
> xterm -S command line option.  Pty is a socket-like interface that
> simulates a serial port and allows the system serial driver to handle
> stuff like erase characters.  It's slightly complicated to program but
> not horrendous like writing a full-on GUI.  I haven't done this
> particular thing with xterm but it looks doable.

If Pty is "complicated to program", I'd rather use sockets I think.  The 
reason I'm shying away is that the socket interface broke when I got a 
new laptop with Win 8.  I can't seem to figure out what is wrong and I'm 
tired of looking.  I just want to have more control of my code.  The 
real use of this program is in production test where they are running 
Win 7 and older boxes.  So that all still works.  I could use the rPi in 
the lab when using the test fixture for other purposes.


> If this is just a developer app for your own use, I'd say it's simplest
> launch both terminal windows manually.
>
> Note: I've programmed lots of stuff on Linux, but nothing directly on a
> raspberry pi, so I might miss some issues.

Thanks for your comments.  I certainly have stuff to think about.

I've cross posted this to the comp.lang.forth forum and I'm a bit 
surprised I haven't gotten any replies from the gforth people.  Maybe I 
just need to give it more time.  It *is* Sunday after all.  lol

Any idea where folks normally get help with gForth?

-- 

Rick

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#34182

FromRaymond Wiker <rwiker@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-26 22:12 +0100
Message-ID<m2lho23594.fsf@Unknown-24-ab-81-b9-5e-e9.lan>
In reply to#34180
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:

> On 10/26/2014 4:24 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
>> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>> I'm still not following.  How does the language the OS was written in
>>> have any impact on the interfaces the OS provides?
>>
>> The OS is written in C because the developers were C programmers and
>> they were the ones who got to choose the language.  They also got to
>> design the interfaces, so they designed them for the convenience of
>> other C programmers.  If they had been Forth programmers it would have
>> worked out about the same way.  Similarly for Ada or whatever.
>>
>>> Now I wish to port this program to the rPi.  Rather than mess with
>>> sockets and a separate program as a terminal emulator, I am thinking
>>> it might be cleaner to keep it self contained and display the message
>>> traffic in a separate window opened by the Forth program.
>>
>> I see what you mean now, but what you're describing is much harder than
>> just having a socket listener in your program, and telnetting into it
>> from another terminal window.  The point is that Linux comes with decent
>> terminal emulation apps (similar to the C:> prompt in DOS) and they
>> handle stuff like character i/o, scrolling, etc. for you.  If you wanted
>> to do all that in your application you'd have to deal with an immensely
>> complicated GUI library and reimplement the terminal in your program.
>
> I hear you.  I don't need to implement a full fledged terminal
> program. I can do something fairly simple really.  It could use
> wraparound rather than use scrolling for example.  Also, my protocol
> is query, answer, so I could easily display this on a split screen
> showing the lines side by side which I am doing now, but using ANSI
> codes to display in different colors.  White space would work just as
> well and be simpler.
>
>
>> A middle ground migh be to launch a terminal window (xterm etc) from
>> your program and connect it up to a pseudo-teletype (pty) using the
>> xterm -S command line option.  Pty is a socket-like interface that
>> simulates a serial port and allows the system serial driver to handle
>> stuff like erase characters.  It's slightly complicated to program but
>> not horrendous like writing a full-on GUI.  I haven't done this
>> particular thing with xterm but it looks doable.
>
> If Pty is "complicated to program", I'd rather use sockets I think.
> The reason I'm shying away is that the socket interface broke when I
> got a new laptop with Win 8.  I can't seem to figure out what is wrong
> and I'm tired of looking.  I just want to have more control of my
> code.  The real use of this program is in production test where they
> are running Win 7 and older boxes.  So that all still works.  I could
> use the rPi in the lab when using the test fixture for other purposes.
>
>
>> If this is just a developer app for your own use, I'd say it's simplest
>> launch both terminal windows manually.
>>
>> Note: I've programmed lots of stuff on Linux, but nothing directly on a
>> raspberry pi, so I might miss some issues.
>
> Thanks for your comments.  I certainly have stuff to think about.
>
> I've cross posted this to the comp.lang.forth forum and I'm a bit
> surprised I haven't gotten any replies from the gforth people.  Maybe
> I just need to give it more time.  It *is* Sunday after all.  lol
>
> Any idea where folks normally get help with gForth?

Googling for "raspberry pi forth", I came across
https://github.com/organix/pijFORTHos . I have no idea if this is in a
useable state, but it looks interesting.

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#34184

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-26 17:20 -0400
Message-ID<m2join$37o$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34182
On 10/26/2014 5:12 PM, Raymond Wiker wrote:
>
> Googling for "raspberry pi forth", I came across
> https://github.com/organix/pijFORTHos . I have no idea if this is in a
> useable state, but it looks interesting.

Thanks for the link.  Right now I'd like  to pursue gForth because if I 
get my code working with that, it is likely I can use the code with 
minimal modifications under Windows gForth as well.  Also, pijFORTHos is 
actually a bare metal forth not running under Linux at all.  I want to 
keep this under an OS for now as there will be files written from the 
program and networking will be used to move the data.  Not to mention I 
may want to add special capabilities to the rPi such as an oscilloscope.

-- 

Rick

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#34185

FromPaul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date2014-10-26 14:39 -0700
Message-ID<7xk33m4ikj.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>
In reply to#34180
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> I hear you.  I don't need to implement a full fledged terminal
> program. I can do something fairly simple really.  It could use
> wraparound rather than use scrolling for example.

It's not worth bothering.  Just use a terminal.

> If Pty is "complicated to program", I'd rather use sockets I think.

Pty is probably simpler than sockets, it's just different and doesn't
come up as often.  I.e. most internet programmers are already used to
sockets, while pty might require some head scratching.

Actually there's an even simpler approach now that I think of it.  Just
launch "xterm somescript" where somescript is a script that you write,
and xterm will run the script instead of a shell.  The script would just
telnet to the socket listener in your program.  Telnet in "line mode"
will send a line at a time, doing stuff like erase processing, so your
program won't have to deal with that.

> The real use of this program is in production test where they
> are running Win 7 and older boxes.  So that all still works.  I could
> use the rPi in the lab when using the test fixture for other purposes.

I'm unclear where the rpi comes into the production system, if it does
at all.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#34186

Fromrickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date2014-10-26 17:46 -0400
Message-ID<m2jq4i$8jc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#34185
On 10/26/2014 5:39 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> I hear you.  I don't need to implement a full fledged terminal
>> program. I can do something fairly simple really.  It could use
>> wraparound rather than use scrolling for example.
>
> It's not worth bothering.  Just use a terminal.

Not sure if you mean a terminal or a terminal emulator.  I still have to 
figure out how to talk to a terminal emulator.


>> If Pty is "complicated to program", I'd rather use sockets I think.
>
> Pty is probably simpler than sockets, it's just different and doesn't
> come up as often.  I.e. most internet programmers are already used to
> sockets, while pty might require some head scratching.

I already have a sockets implementation working for Windows.  I would 
need to port that to Linux which may not be so fun.


> Actually there's an even simpler approach now that I think of it.  Just
> launch "xterm somescript" where somescript is a script that you write,
> and xterm will run the script instead of a shell.  The script would just
> telnet to the socket listener in your program.  Telnet in "line mode"
> will send a line at a time, doing stuff like erase processing, so your
> program won't have to deal with that.

I don't follow.  Why would the terminal emulator be sending anything?  I 
guess I wasn't clear.  The terminal emulator is just being used to 
display the message traffic from the serial port.


>> The real use of this program is in production test where they
>> are running Win 7 and older boxes.  So that all still works.  I could
>> use the rPi in the lab when using the test fixture for other purposes.
>
> I'm unclear where the rpi comes into the production system, if it does
> at all.

It doesn't.  As I said I would use the rPi for the same program for 
other purposes in the lab.

Maybe you can help me with the terminalogy of the sockets interface.  I 
thought my program was a socket server.  You seem to call it a 
"listener".  Is that the same thing?

-- 

Rick

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