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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #30486 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-05-20 09:23 -0700 |
| Last post | 2014-05-25 13:27 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 314 — 30 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth
Go Forth And Prosper Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-20 09:23 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 10:32 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 09:57 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 03:03 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 00:40 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 20:35 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-24 19:35 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 19:17 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-24 16:57 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-25 00:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 05:00 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-25 09:02 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 12:32 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper babruehl@gmail.com - 2014-05-25 12:36 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 15:43 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-25 13:02 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 13:14 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 13:05 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 17:04 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 15:44 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 12:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-25 17:33 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-25 18:08 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 23:44 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 23:29 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 11:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 11:18 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-27 15:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-28 00:12 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 19:19 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 11:41 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-25 17:38 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 08:13 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-25 17:57 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 08:30 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-25 21:44 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 09:01 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-25 22:09 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 10:26 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-25 23:34 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 12:32 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 09:37 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 21:32 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 10:49 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 11:40 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 12:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 23:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 11:03 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 11:24 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 00:35 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 15:56 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-27 10:34 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 16:53 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-27 20:43 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 01:57 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-27 10:28 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 23:37 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 17:29 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 10:56 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 11:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 12:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 12:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 15:54 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 13:10 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 13:32 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 14:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 20:50 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 19:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 23:50 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 23:51 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 00:03 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 03:19 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-27 00:33 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 00:43 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-27 01:18 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 05:18 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-27 00:42 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 13:53 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 20:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 17:34 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 21:49 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 20:33 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 13:48 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 20:24 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 17:44 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 21:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-27 00:08 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 12:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-27 13:36 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 19:53 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-27 18:11 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 08:57 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-05-29 09:42 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 15:03 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-05-30 00:23 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 02:04 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper test <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2014-05-28 04:54 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-28 10:17 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 06:51 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 13:35 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 10:43 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 09:19 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 13:41 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 12:20 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-28 13:28 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 17:54 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-28 19:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 23:17 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 11:27 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 11:51 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 13:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 13:26 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 13:48 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 14:02 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 14:45 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 14:37 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 15:05 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 15:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 15:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 16:11 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 16:43 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 17:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 17:58 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-30 01:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-31 14:15 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 11:29 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 22:47 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 20:24 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 23:35 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-29 20:55 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 20:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 00:22 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 21:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 01:28 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 08:33 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 13:05 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-30 11:47 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 13:07 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 14:14 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 21:04 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 12:34 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 23:41 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 17:27 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 15:05 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 18:15 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 17:45 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 21:53 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 19:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 19:45 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 21:27 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 19:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-30 11:37 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 20:16 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 21:32 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-31 02:49 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-31 19:15 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 11:23 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 11:18 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-30 08:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-30 09:53 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-29 09:50 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-29 11:17 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-30 09:55 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 23:26 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-28 04:56 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 09:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 09:46 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 10:18 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 10:28 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-28 12:57 -0500
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 10:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 10:47 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 20:45 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper David J <skamolex@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 11:49 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 22:08 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-05-29 09:46 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-31 13:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2014-05-31 23:07 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 06:37 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 20:39 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 16:03 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 09:43 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 00:45 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-27 12:40 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 11:46 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 12:47 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-27 10:54 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 12:49 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-28 12:52 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 12:24 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 12:28 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 03:21 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-26 23:33 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 19:08 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 20:15 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 11:05 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 16:02 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 13:30 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 16:50 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 14:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 18:54 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 17:15 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 15:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 15:13 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 17:19 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 17:27 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 18:26 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-20 18:34 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 21:53 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 19:58 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 20:03 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-21 01:27 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-21 10:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Julian Fondren <ayrnieu@gmail.com> - 2014-05-21 09:07 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-21 11:46 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-21 15:34 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-21 11:48 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 21:47 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 18:48 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 13:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 16:47 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-21 00:18 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 18:55 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-21 02:22 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 22:06 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-21 14:26 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-21 17:17 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-21 17:48 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-20 14:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 12:23 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-05-20 12:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 11:36 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 14:53 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 12:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 15:23 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 12:29 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 16:51 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-22 13:58 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:24 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:32 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 12:39 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-22 13:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-24 09:18 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 18:46 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 19:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 19:36 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 19:42 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-27 23:13 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-27 19:19 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-28 20:52 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 22:12 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-29 12:41 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 01:47 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-28 05:20 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-28 21:03 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 22:13 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 06:41 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 16:44 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 07:49 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 17:01 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-28 15:01 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-28 08:40 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> - 2014-05-28 20:45 +0200
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 14:53 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-28 21:10 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-05-28 23:28 +0300
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-28 17:54 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-28 21:01 +0100
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Andy Valencia <vandys@vsta.org> - 2014-05-28 08:00 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-24 21:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 14:52 +0300
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-25 17:45 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 23:47 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Hannu Vuolasaho <vuokkosetae@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 19:41 +0300
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 02:35 -0700
Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-24 21:24 -0400
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-24 17:02 -1000
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-24 21:21 -0700
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-24 22:16 -0700
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-24 21:02 -1000
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-05-25 11:39 +0100
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-05-25 15:24 +0200
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] mhx@iae.nl - 2014-05-25 09:07 -0700
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-05-25 14:15 +0000
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) - 2014-05-25 12:48 -0400
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] Assad Ebrahim <assad.ebrahim@alum.swarthmore.edu> - 2014-05-27 23:27 +0100
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] Rob Sciuk <rob@controlq.com> - 2014-05-26 13:08 -0400
Re: Ms Rather attacked, was [Re: Go Forth And Prosper] "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 07:41 -1000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 19:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-05-25 04:05 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Alexander Skobelev <al.skobelev@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 12:42 +0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 07:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2014-05-22 22:09 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-23 05:08 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-23 09:46 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-23 13:32 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-23 14:26 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:20 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-24 08:31 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-24 08:40 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-24 09:50 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2014-05-24 21:35 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-05-25 11:25 +0000
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-26 16:20 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-05-27 06:04 -0500
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 19:01 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 19:24 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-05-24 10:12 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:29 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> - 2014-05-24 01:37 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-05-24 12:08 -0400
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 13:21 -0700
Re: Go Forth And Prosper "Clyde W. Phillips Jr." <cwpjr02@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 13:27 -0700
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 16:11 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xoayg9o3y.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #30968 |
visualforth@rocketmail.com writes: >> Really, "no downloads" means what it says, it has to work with the tty >> emulator already included with whatever OS you're using. > Sorry, that won't work with TI's LaunchPads, with none of them. > They all need a special USB driver, and the 4E4th-IDE provides this. Oh, hmm, I didn't realize that, and it's disappointing. Still, there is mspdebug which is available in the standard Debian repository. > "MSP430-Stamp" ... an audio jack for a FTDI-USB cable for programming. > But you need to download and install the FTDI-USB driver anyway IIRC I don't understand why an audio jack, and if there's a special cable I'd hope it would be able to use the standard usb-serial driver, so the application program would just see a serial port. > But I can offer you a R6511AQ board with RS232 - 32k RAM, 32k EPROM > with RSC-Forth on board, ready to go, only needs a 5V/1A supply. That doesn't sound like something in current production, heh heh. > Does anybody know if there are USB connected microprocessor boards > available where you don't need to install a USB driver? Beaglebone Black for one: I think it presents the USB network interface so you can telnet or ssh to the board over the usb. Of course it also has an ethernet port. A TCP stack may be a bit much for a little msp430 board but if you're going to have an ftdi chip, I'd have thought it would present a usb serial device interface.
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 16:43 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <07494756-76b0-4359-bac2-4a6c1c3da1b2@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30969 |
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:11:45 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote: > visualforth.com writes: > > "MSP430-Stamp" ... an audio jack for a FTDI-USB cable for programming. > > But you need to download and install the FTDI-USB driver anyway IIRC > > I don't understand why an audio jack, and if there's a special cable I'd > hope it would be able to use the standard usb-serial driver, so the > application program would just see a serial port. FTDI offers USB cables with a USB to TTL/CMOS converter inside the USB connector, and with an audio jack as easiest way to plug in at a board. The FTDI TTL-232R cables require USB drivers, available free from http://www.ftdichip.com, which are used to make the FT232R in the cable appear as a virtual COM port (VCP). This then allows the user to communicate with the USB interface via a standard PC serial emulation port (for example TTY). Source: http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/Cables/DS_TTL-232R_CABLES.pdf The list of drivers http://www.ftdichip.com/FTDrivers.htm contains Windows, Linux, MAC OSX and Android drivers. The LaunchPad has a special microprocessor on board which converts USB to TTL/CMOS. I don't know any USB connection which doesn't need a driver download and installation. May be somebody else knows.
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 17:00 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xmwe0m8zf.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #30970 |
visualforth@rocketmail.com writes: > I don't know any USB connection which doesn't need a driver download > and installation. May be somebody else knows. Most OS's have USB drivers included for the standard USB device classes like serial, network, HID, storage, etc. If you buy a USB flash drive and plug it into your PC, it works immediately--you don't have to download or install any drivers. I'd hope your MSP430 board is the same way. When you said the Launchpad needs special driver, I thought you meant the board doesn't present as one of the standard classes. Note: I may be using USB terminology incorrectly here since it's not my thing, but I think I have the gist of it right.
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 17:58 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <f64febd0-e522-4e66-95bc-c07cdba72abd@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30971 |
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 8:00:04 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote: > When you said the Launchpad needs special driver, I thought you meant > the board doesn't present as one of the standard classes. Yes, you are right. I am not familiar with USB terminology, but TI's LaunchPad needs three different USB classes, one of them is for communication, the others for flashing and debugging IIRC.
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| From | Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-30 01:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <00f5a109-73b5-4c64-b74c-59554df17701@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30970 |
Hi, TI provides an example USB HID ( mouse/keyboard) program - this loads a driver automatically under Windows ( that's how off the shelf keyboards and mice work ). The USB HID interface is limiited to 1 ms polling and 63 bytes of data, which boilds down to 60Kbaud apparantly, allowing forpacket overhead, although I haven't tested this yet. You can register with Windows to be notified when a USB device is inserted, check for your USB VID and HID ( Vendor ID and Product ID ), then read and write to the USB HID device using the devices "filename". TI also provides a java demo program for the host end. As for the FTDI chips - they require a driver, but presumably FTDI have paid Microsoft the required amoount and the driver gets downloaded automatically, at least under Win7. Best regards, Howerd On Friday, May 30, 2014 12:43:07 AM UTC+1, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote: > On Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:11:45 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote: > > > visualforth.com writes: > > > > "MSP430-Stamp" ... an audio jack for a FTDI-USB cable for programming. > > > > But you need to download and install the FTDI-USB driver anyway IIRC > > > > > > I don't understand why an audio jack, and if there's a special cable I'd > > > hope it would be able to use the standard usb-serial driver, so the > > > application program would just see a serial port. > > > > FTDI offers USB cables with a USB to TTL/CMOS converter inside the USB connector, and with an audio jack as easiest way to plug in at a board. > > The FTDI TTL-232R cables require USB drivers, available free from http://www.ftdichip.com, which are used to make the FT232R in the cable appear as a virtual COM port (VCP). This then allows the user to communicate with the USB interface via a standard PC serial emulation port (for example TTY). > > Source: http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/Cables/DS_TTL-232R_CABLES.pdf > > The list of drivers http://www.ftdichip.com/FTDrivers.htm contains Windows, Linux, MAC OSX and Android drivers. > > > > The LaunchPad has a special microprocessor on board which converts USB to TTL/CMOS. > > > > I don't know any USB connection which doesn't need a driver download and installation. May be somebody else knows.
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| From | "M. Simon" <msimon6808@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-31 14:15 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <75645b1d-0533-4dbd-bb38-d8bc3f0cfe0f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30970 |
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 11:43:07 PM UTC, visua...@rocketmail.com wrote: > FTDI offers USB cables with a USB to TTL/CMOS converter inside the USB connector, and with an audio jack as easiest way to plug in at a board. > > The FTDI TTL-232R cables require USB drivers, available free from http://www.ftdichip.com, which are used to make the FT232R in the cable appear as a virtual COM port (VCP). This then allows the user to communicate with the USB interface via a standard PC serial emulation port (for example TTY). I'm using the FT230 these days. Less than half the price of the FT232 and works fine if you don't need all the modem control signals. It only has RTS and CTS.
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| From | HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-30 11:29 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <lm9j1m$61v$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #30969 |
Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: > visualforth@rocketmail.com writes: > >> Really, "no downloads" means what it says, it has to work with the tty > >> emulator already included with whatever OS you're using. > > Sorry, that won't work with TI's LaunchPads, with none of them. > > They all need a special USB driver, and the 4E4th-IDE provides this. > > Oh, hmm, I didn't realize that, and it's disappointing. Still, there is > mspdebug which is available in the standard Debian repository. > an "driver" for the Launchpad was included in the Linux-kernel years ago. Only plug it in!
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 22:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lm8rh0$bi8$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #30968 |
On 5/29/2014 6:50 PM, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote: > On Thursday, May 29, 2014 6:31:12 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote: >> visualforth@rocketmail.com writes: >> >>>> some desires around here. No downloads, no PC installation, just plug >>>> it into a USB port, run a terminal emulator and get an OK prompt. >>> That's already there: TI's G2 LaunchPad. >>> The only difference is that you need the 4E4th-IDE as terminal >>> emulator and some buttons to click to get an OK prompt. >> >> Really, "no downloads" means what it says, it has to work with the tty >> emulator already included with whatever OS you're using. I'm not >> interested in running Wine or any Windows programs. > > Sorry, that won't work with TI's LaunchPads, with none of them. > They all need a special USB driver, and the 4E4th-IDE provides this. > > So, the only opportunity for you to get such a board with the MSP430, we have to make our own, as I wrote before: a little "MSP430-Stamp" with a minimum on parts, only some LEDs, an LCD, a connector for extensions, and an audio jack for a FTDI-USB cable for programming. > > But you need to download and install the FTDI-USB driver anyway IIRC (may be I am wrong). If they are using an FTDI chip to provide the USB interface, then you would need the FTDI driver. However FTDI provides a Linux driver as well as Windows, MAC OS and Android. Is FTDI the chip on the TI board or on your idea for a board? The FTDI chips I am familiar with can look like async serial ports or can control a target with JTAG. To use the JTAG interface requires a program to control it that understand JTAG. To control the target over an async serial port requires a monitor in ROM on the target to process the commands from the UART. > Does anybody know if there are USB connected microprocessor boards available where you don't need to install a USB driver? How would you get a USB device to work without a USB driver? You can make it work if you made the board look like an existing device already supported by windows, like a mouse or disk drive. I don't think mice are two way. I don't know much about a disk emulation, but I know it is common for devices like cameras. -- Rick
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 20:24 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7xa9a0rlss.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #30982 |
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: > How would you get a USB device to work without a USB driver? You can > make it work if you made the board look like an existing device > already supported by windows, like a mouse or disk drive. Serial port emulation is what I would have expected. I thought that was a common use of FTDI chips.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 23:35 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lm8uaq$pcb$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #30987 |
On 5/29/2014 11:24 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >> How would you get a USB device to work without a USB driver? You can >> make it work if you made the board look like an existing device >> already supported by windows, like a mouse or disk drive. > > Serial port emulation is what I would have expected. I thought that was > a common use of FTDI chips. That requires an FTDI driver. -- Rick
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| From | Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 20:55 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7x7g533opr.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> |
| In reply to | #30992 |
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes: >> Serial port emulation is what I would have expected. I thought that was >> a common use of FTDI chips. > That requires an FTDI driver. I think most current OS's include that already. I.e. there are USB serial port adapters you can buy, that I told have an FTDI chip inside. USB at one end, DB9 at the other. I've used them. You plug them into your computer and they work, like a USB mouse or flash stick. No downloads or driver installations.
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 20:41 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <475e5fc5-05e2-454e-9b31-ddad1fc2390d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30982 |
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:47:47 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote: > On 5/29/2014 6:50 PM, visualforth.com wrote: > If they are using an FTDI chip to provide the USB interface, then you > would need the FTDI driver. However FTDI provides a Linux driver as > well as Windows, MAC OS and Android. Is FTDI the chip on the TI board > or on your idea for a board? Thanks for confirming, that always a USB driver is needed, so I still remembered correctly. TI's LaunchPad doesn't use an FTDI chip, TI's LaunchPad uses a TI micro with USB I/O instead. My idea was to use FTDI's USB cable with integrated chip which translates USB to TTL/CMOS serial, it doesn't need any programming on the target side, it only needs an UART. If somebody has several boards, he only needs one of these cables to connect the microprocessor which he is programming. Saves $$$. > > Does anybody know if there are USB connected microprocessor boards > > available where you don't need to install a USB driver? > > How would you get a USB device to work without a USB driver? You can > make it work if you made the board look like an existing device already > supported by windows, like a mouse or disk drive. I always wrote that a USB interface needs a USB driver, even a USB mouse needs a USB driver.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-30 00:22 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lm911i$7ek$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #30993 |
On 5/29/2014 11:41 PM, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote: > On Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:47:47 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote: >> On 5/29/2014 6:50 PM, visualforth.com wrote: > >> If they are using an FTDI chip to provide the USB interface, then you >> would need the FTDI driver. However FTDI provides a Linux driver as >> well as Windows, MAC OS and Android. Is FTDI the chip on the TI board >> or on your idea for a board? > > Thanks for confirming, that always a USB driver is needed, so I still remembered correctly. > > TI's LaunchPad doesn't use an FTDI chip, TI's LaunchPad uses a TI micro with USB I/O instead. Any idea of how that works? Many MCU board makers provide the FTDI chip because it can provide a JTAG functionality which is widely supported by tools. Is the TI chip doing a UART emullation? > My idea was to use FTDI's USB cable with integrated chip which translates USB to TTL/CMOS serial, it doesn't need any programming on the target side, it only needs an UART. If somebody has several boards, he only needs one of these cables to connect the microprocessor which he is programming. Saves $$$. Yes, the target MCU has to provide a UART, but also software on the target to talk through the UART. >>> Does anybody know if there are USB connected microprocessor boards >>> available where you don't need to install a USB driver? >> >> How would you get a USB device to work without a USB driver? You can >> make it work if you made the board look like an existing device already >> supported by windows, like a mouse or disk drive. > > I always wrote that a USB interface needs a USB driver, even a USB mouse needs a USB driver. Yes, but a mouse can typically work in a basic default mode with is compatible with the older drives that are in Windows from way back. Rather like a VGA video card doesn't need a vendor specific driver. That is why I mentioned that a board could emulate a disk drive and work with the existing drivers in Windows or Linux or any other OS I expect. I don't know this for certain as I have never done it. I thought you had asked for a USB connected board which would not need to install a USB driver? Isn't that you I was quoting above? -- Rick
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-29 21:41 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7a203bb8-680c-4350-b2d5-4f482e564864@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #30998 |
On Friday, May 30, 2014 12:22:06 AM UTC-4, rickman wrote: > On 5/29/2014 11:41 PM, visualforth.com wrote: > > On Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:47:47 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote: > >> On 5/29/2014 6:50 PM, visualforth.com wrote: > > TI's LaunchPad doesn't use an FTDI chip, TI's LaunchPad uses a TI micro with USB I/O instead. > Any idea of how that works? Many MCU board makers provide the FTDI chip > because it can provide a JTAG functionality which is widely supported by > tools. Is the TI chip doing a UART emulation? No, TI uses two chips on the LaunchPad, a TUSB3410 USB to Serial Port Controller - http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tusb3410.pdf - and a MSP430F1612 MCU which is needed for the built-in embedded emulation module (EEM) which can be accessed via JTAG and allows supervising the CPU from outside. Not running software, but rather accessing and controlling CPU internal registers and other operations, bypassing the CPU. The 1612 contains interface software to allow JTAG access to the target MSP under control of the PC software. Without this, the debugger couldn't stop the CPU, inspect registers, read and change memory etc. It would require debug code included into the binary. Source: http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/msp430/f/166/t/319218.aspx That means, neither is needed to connect the MSP430 to a serial interface. > > My idea was to use FTDI's USB cable with integrated chip which translates USB to TTL/CMOS serial, it doesn't need any programming on the target side, it only needs an UART. If somebody has several boards, he only needs one of these cables to connect the microprocessor which he is programming. Saves $$$. > Yes, the target MCU has to provide a UART, but also software on the > target to talk through the UART. That's where the on chip 4e4th comes in! > I thought you had asked for a USB connected board which would not need > to install a USB driver? Isn't that you I was quoting above? Yes, I asked if anybody knows if this is possible, because my experience tells me that always a USB driver is needed for a USB connected board. But may be Linux doesn't need it.
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-30 01:28 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lm94uh$p16$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #30999 |
On 5/30/2014 12:41 AM, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote: > On Friday, May 30, 2014 12:22:06 AM UTC-4, rickman wrote: >> On 5/29/2014 11:41 PM, visualforth.com wrote: >>> On Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:47:47 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote: >>>> On 5/29/2014 6:50 PM, visualforth.com wrote: > >>> TI's LaunchPad doesn't use an FTDI chip, TI's LaunchPad uses a TI micro with USB I/O instead. > >> Any idea of how that works? Many MCU board makers provide the FTDI chip >> because it can provide a JTAG functionality which is widely supported by >> tools. Is the TI chip doing a UART emulation? > > No, TI uses two chips on the LaunchPad, a TUSB3410 USB to Serial Port Controller - http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tusb3410.pdf - and a MSP430F1612 MCU which is needed for the built-in embedded emulation module (EEM) which can be accessed via JTAG and allows supervising the CPU from outside. Not running software, but rather accessing and controlling CPU internal registers and other operations, bypassing the CPU. > The 1612 contains interface software to allow JTAG access to the target MSP under control of the PC software. Without this, the debugger couldn't stop the CPU, inspect registers, read and change memory etc. It would require debug code included into the binary. > Source: http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/msp430/f/166/t/319218.aspx > > That means, neither is needed to connect the MSP430 to a serial interface. Ok, but with very limited functionality. So in reality, TI is doing "all of the above" of the items I was asking about. They use a USB serial port chip to interface to USB, then use the other device to implement a JTAG or JTAG like protocol to control the target MCU. >>> My idea was to use FTDI's USB cable with integrated chip which translates USB to TTL/CMOS serial, it doesn't need any programming on the target side, it only needs an UART. If somebody has several boards, he only needs one of these cables to connect the microprocessor which he is programming. Saves $$$. > > >> Yes, the target MCU has to provide a UART, but also software on the >> target to talk through the UART. > > That's where the on chip 4e4th comes in! Ok, but you have to get the code into the chip with a setup like TI has on their LaunchPad board. That is why they have it, to make the board unbrickable. If you sell a chip with Forth preinstalled and someone overwrites the Flash, it is broken until you can connect it to a LaunchPad again. I don't find that a good approach for either beginners or experienced users. >> I thought you had asked for a USB connected board which would not need >> to install a USB driver? Isn't that you I was quoting above? > > Yes, I asked if anybody knows if this is possible, because my experience tells me that always a USB driver is needed for a USB connected board. But may be Linux doesn't need it. Only in the ways I described, to make use of the common, basic functions that all USB hosts should be capable of, HID or mass storage. Like I said, it still uses a driver, of course, but a driver that all host should have from day one. -- Rick
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| From | visualforth@rocketmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-30 08:33 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <aedb6eb7-27d7-49cb-bf3d-9ac92ed77534@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #31001 |
On Friday, May 30, 2014 1:28:45 AM UTC-4, rickman wrote: > On 5/30/2014 12:41 AM, visualforth.com wrote: > >> Yes, the target MCU has to provide a UART, but also software on the > >> target to talk through the UART. > > > That's where the on chip 4e4th comes in! > > Ok, but you have to get the code into the chip with a setup like TI has > on their LaunchPad board. That is why they have it, to make the board > unbrickable. If you sell a chip with Forth preinstalled and someone > overwrites the Flash, it is broken until you can connect it to a > LaunchPad again. I don't find that a good approach for either beginners > or experienced users. If you sell a computer with OS preinstalled and someone overwrites the OS, it is broken until you can reinstall it. I don't find that a good approach for either beginners or experienced users. 4e4th is a special Forth for education, and measures have been taken to make it usable again even if some bad writing has been done. The 4e4th takes care of it's own memory space, and if somebody writes an endless loop, a hardware connection of two pins is provided to bring 4e4th back to life.
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| From | HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-30 13:05 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <lm9om0$fn0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #30993 |
visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote: > On Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:47:47 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote: > > On 5/29/2014 6:50 PM, visualforth.com wrote: > > > If they are using an FTDI chip to provide the USB interface, then you > > would need the FTDI driver. However FTDI provides a Linux driver as > > well as Windows, MAC OS and Android. Is FTDI the chip on the TI board > > or on your idea for a board? > > Thanks for confirming, that always a USB driver is needed, so I still remembered correctly. No, you didn't. Not "always". Only if you use Windows. > > TI's LaunchPad doesn't use an FTDI chip, TI's LaunchPad uses a TI micro with USB I/O instead. > > My idea was to use FTDI's USB cable with integrated chip which translates USB to TTL/CMOS serial, it doesn't need any programming on the target side, it only needs an UART. If somebody has several boards, he only needs one of these cables to connect the microprocessor which he is programming. Saves $$$. > > > > Does anybody know if there are USB connected microprocessor boards > > > available where you don't need to install a USB driver? > > > > How would you get a USB device to work without a USB driver? You can > > make it work if you made the board look like an existing device already > > supported by windows, like a mouse or disk drive. > > I always wrote that a USB interface needs a USB driver, even a USB mouse needs a USB driver.
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| From | albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-30 11:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <53886fd0$0$4608$e4fe514c@dreader36.news.xs4all.nl> |
| In reply to | #30993 |
In article <475e5fc5-05e2-454e-9b31-ddad1fc2390d@googlegroups.com>, <visualforth@rocketmail.com> wrote: >On Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:47:47 PM UTC-4, rickman wrote: >> On 5/29/2014 6:50 PM, visualforth.com wrote: > >> If they are using an FTDI chip to provide the USB interface, then you >> would need the FTDI driver. However FTDI provides a Linux driver as >> well as Windows, MAC OS and Android. Is FTDI the chip on the TI board >> or on your idea for a board? > >Thanks for confirming, that always a USB driver is needed, so I still remembered correctly. > >TI's LaunchPad doesn't use an FTDI chip, TI's LaunchPad uses a TI micro with USB I/O instead. > >My idea was to use FTDI's USB cable with integrated chip which translates USB to TTL/CMOS serial, it doesn't need any programming on the >target side, it only needs an UART. If somebody has several boards, he only needs one of these cables to connect the microprocessor which >he is programming. Saves $$$. > >> > Does anybody know if there are USB connected microprocessor boards >> > available where you don't need to install a USB driver? >> >> How would you get a USB device to work without a USB driver? You can >> make it work if you made the board look like an existing device already >> supported by windows, like a mouse or disk drive. > >I always wrote that a USB interface needs a USB driver, even a USB mouse needs a USB driver. Of course, but that doesn't mean you've to install it. A USB driver for a mouse may be present in the BIOS, even before an OS starts up. Groetjes Albert -- Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters. albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst
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| From | HaveANiceDay <HaveANiceDay@NoSpam.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-30 13:07 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <lm9oq2$fn0$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #30982 |
rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: > On 5/29/2014 6:50 PM, visualforth@rocketmail.com wrote: > > On Thursday, May 29, 2014 6:31:12 PM UTC-4, Paul Rubin wrote: > >> visualforth@rocketmail.com writes: > >> > >>>> some desires around here. No downloads, no PC installation, just plug > >>>> it into a USB port, run a terminal emulator and get an OK prompt. > >>> That's already there: TI's G2 LaunchPad. > >>> The only difference is that you need the 4E4th-IDE as terminal > >>> emulator and some buttons to click to get an OK prompt. > >> > >> Really, "no downloads" means what it says, it has to work with the tty > >> emulator already included with whatever OS you're using. I'm not > >> interested in running Wine or any Windows programs. > > > > Sorry, that won't work with TI's LaunchPads, with none of them. > > They all need a special USB driver, and the 4E4th-IDE provides this. > > > > So, the only opportunity for you to get such a board with the MSP430, we have to make our own, as I wrote before: a little "MSP430-Stamp" with a minimum on parts, only some LEDs, an LCD, a connector for extensions, and an audio jack for a FTDI-USB cable for programming. > > > > But you need to download and install the FTDI-USB driver anyway IIRC (may be I am wrong). using Linux you are wrong > > If they are using an FTDI chip to provide the USB interface, then you > would need the FTDI driver. However FTDI provides a Linux driver as > well as Windows, MAC OS and Android. Is FTDI the chip on the TI board > or on your idea for a board? > > The FTDI chips I am familiar with can look like async serial ports or > can control a target with JTAG. To use the JTAG interface requires a > program to control it that understand JTAG. To control the target over > an async serial port requires a monitor in ROM on the target to process > the commands from the UART. > > > > Does anybody know if there are USB connected microprocessor boards available where you don't need to install a USB driver? > How would you get a USB device to work without a USB driver? You can > make it work if you made the board look like an existing device already > supported by windows Thats Windows. On Linux you only have to provide a appropriate udev-rule or use it as root
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| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-05-30 14:14 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <lmahq1$cn2$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #31023 |
On 5/30/2014 7:07 AM, HaveANiceDay wrote: > rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: > >>> But you need to download and install the FTDI-USB driver anyway IIRC (may be I am wrong). > > using Linux you are wrong That is not a very educational statement and I can't even determine if it is correct or not. :P How about some explanation??? My understanding is that there are different versions of FTDI chips and if you have one of the most recent ones you need to download the most recent driver from FTDI. I know it is this way with Prolific but I'm not as familiar with FTDI devices, but that is my recollection. >> How would you get a USB device to work without a USB driver? You can >> make it work if you made the board look like an existing device already >> supported by windows > > Thats Windows. On Linux you only have to provide a appropriate udev-rule or use it as root Really? Any USB device can be operated without a driver under Linux? That must be why so many device manufacturers don't bother to offer Linux drivers... they don't need any! -- Rick
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