Groups > comp.lang.forth > #50734 > unrolled thread

Re: BBC MicroBit has arrived - which Forth in Python is recommended for now?

Started by	Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
First post	2016-09-07 11:24 -0500
Last post	2016-09-11 04:51 -0700
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#50814

From	Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date	2016-09-10 10:58 -0500
Message-ID	<nr1aj9$bho$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#50808

On 9/10/2016 6:06 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Saturday, September 10, 2016 at 8:48:21 AM UTC+1, lawren...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Saturday, September 10, 2016 at 7:19:46 PM UTC+12, JUERGEN wrote:
>>> On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 9:48:20 PM UTC+1, lawren...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 6:57:51 AM UTC+12, JUERGEN wrote:
>>>>> 12 year olds normally do not have Linux.
>>>>
>>>> Why not? It’s easy to get hold of.
>>>
>>> what do you mean?
>>
>> A 12-year-old child could figure out how to download and install it.
>
> But why should it install and learn Linux ( it does not know) just to get Mecrisp ( it does not know) and a MicroBit going, to run Forth (it does not know) - too far fetched  - Windows or for specialists.
> A lot better to wait until somebody get's it going under Windows.
> Or independant just using a terminal function.
> I just got an 1802 in FPGA in my post - USB cable into PC - Monitor is running - this is what I expect.
>

Let us know how the 1802 works out, eventually when I get time I would 
be interested in that processor also. It was not super popular but I 
remember it being very inexpensive, and it ended up in several 
spacecraft due to it being available in radiation hardened versions, and 
very low power, you can still get the chips on eBay for less than $10.

If you don't have Forth software for it, there is an interesting 
possibility. Dr C. H. Ting has a package for the ep16 FPGA processor 
that is free and available through Fig Forth, it has not only the VHDL 
code for a Brevia2 FPGA but detailed explanation on how it works which 
is very interesting. <  http://www.forth.org/cores.html  >

There is something else in that package that could be useful not just 
for the 1802 processor,  there is a version of eForth for Windows and it 
comes with source code for an assembler, a cross compiler, and eForth 
itself that resides in the target hardware, it also comes with 
explanations of how it works. It is a very simple assembler and cross 
compiler and easily changed to other processors such as the 1802, I use 
it when I work with FPGA processors.
-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#50837

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2016-09-11 00:03 -0700
Message-ID	<bc36f094-c73f-4887-976c-6ce0fdfdefd6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#50814

On Saturday, September 10, 2016 at 4:58:37 PM UTC+1, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> On 9/10/2016 6:06 AM, JUERGEN wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 10, 2016 at 8:48:21 AM UTC+1, lawren...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Saturday, September 10, 2016 at 7:19:46 PM UTC+12, JUERGEN wrote:
> >>> On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 9:48:20 PM UTC+1, lawren...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Friday, September 9, 2016 at 6:57:51 AM UTC+12, JUERGEN wrote:
> >>>>> 12 year olds normally do not have Linux.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why not? It’s easy to get hold of.
> >>>
> >>> what do you mean?
> >>
> >> A 12-year-old child could figure out how to download and install it.
> >
> > But why should it install and learn Linux ( it does not know) just to get Mecrisp ( it does not know) and a MicroBit going, to run Forth (it does not know) - too far fetched  - Windows or for specialists.
> > A lot better to wait until somebody get's it going under Windows.
> > Or independant just using a terminal function.
> > I just got an 1802 in FPGA in my post - USB cable into PC - Monitor is running - this is what I expect.
> >
> 
> Let us know how the 1802 works out, eventually when I get time I would 
> be interested in that processor also. It was not super popular but I 
> remember it being very inexpensive, and it ended up in several 
> spacecraft due to it being available in radiation hardened versions, and 
> very low power, you can still get the chips on eBay for less than $10.
> 
> If you don't have Forth software for it, there is an interesting 
> possibility. Dr C. H. Ting has a package for the ep16 FPGA processor 
> that is free and available through Fig Forth, it has not only the VHDL 
> code for a Brevia2 FPGA but detailed explanation on how it works which 
> is very interesting. <  http://www.forth.org/cores.html  >
> 
> There is something else in that package that could be useful not just 
> for the 1802 processor,  there is a version of eForth for Windows and it 
> comes with source code for an assembler, a cross compiler, and eForth 
> itself that resides in the target hardware, it also comes with 
> explanations of how it works. It is a very simple assembler and cross 
> compiler and easily changed to other processors such as the 1802, I use 
> it when I work with FPGA processors.
> -- 
> Cecil - k5nwa

One 1802 implementation talked to me already, the second one needs HW on the board for the serial and USBtoTTL - but should be done soon. I know it works as Steve flashed it for me and sent the creen prints. 
Scott just asked for the Fig Forth and Tiny Basic sources, so I assume this will be implemented soon. 
I am still working on Scott to change the VHDL and Instructions to make it internally all 16 bit wide - the 18k. 
There is James Bowman's Verilog 1802 on Github, but it seems to be for SW only - quite a bit missing, but what he wanted I assume  - this is 1802 No 3 I know about.
... and suddenly a lot more people will be asking themselves  WHAT IS IT THE 1802? See the BMP802 PDF on my website - careful, 12MB. All explained there, data sheet and monitor program included.

Cecil, I have bought the EP16 package, but would prefer the RTX and/or NOVIX for understanding HWF - Hardware Forth, but implementing the EP16 is just a matter of time or help to have it on the same board. This should run in the same Lattice ICE Board 8k the 1802 now runs in.  http://www.latticesemi.com/Products/DevelopmentBoardsAndKits/iCE40HX8KBreakoutBoard.aspx

As you state, there is so much information around, often just the link to them is missing. Thanks again for the info.

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#50839

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date	2016-09-11 01:10 -0700
Message-ID	<87h99mj1qx.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
In reply to	#50837

JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> ... and suddenly a lot more people will be asking themselves WHAT IS
> IT THE 1802? See the BMP802 PDF on my website - careful, 12MB.

There's a reasonable 1802 article on Wikipedia, with links to data
sheets etc.  It's a historically significant cpu and it's cool that
there were rad hardened versions etc., but I don't see much exciting
about a modern reimplementation for most people.  Was there a working
Forth for it?  If yes, the easiest way to run it might be on a software
emulation of the processor.

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#50843

From	albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst)
Date	2016-09-11 11:23 +0200
Message-ID	<nr37r8$664$1@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl>
In reply to	#50839

In article <87h99mj1qx.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>,
Paul Rubin  <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
>> ... and suddenly a lot more people will be asking themselves WHAT IS
>> IT THE 1802? See the BMP802 PDF on my website - careful, 12MB.
>
>There's a reasonable 1802 article on Wikipedia, with links to data
>sheets etc.  It's a historically significant cpu and it's cool that
>there were rad hardened versions etc., but I don't see much exciting
>about a modern reimplementation for most people.  Was there a working
>Forth for it?  If yes, the easiest way to run it might be on a software
>emulation of the processor.

Of course there was a working Forth. It was one of the FIG-Forth targets.
Not only that, it is a very decent processor for Forth.
In the early 80's there were kit's with 1802 to compete with the
6502 and 8080 around.
The rad-hardened versions that went into space where often programmed
in Forth if I recall correctly.

Groetjes Albert
-- 
Albert van der Horst, UTRECHT,THE NETHERLANDS
Economic growth -- being exponential -- ultimately falters.
albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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#50860

From	Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid>
Date	2016-09-11 12:27 -0700
Message-ID	<874m5mi6en.fsf@jester.gateway.pace.com>
In reply to	#50843

albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
> Of course there was a working Forth. It was one of the FIG-Forth targets.
> Not only that, it is a very decent processor for Forth.

Oh cool.  For some reason I thought 1802 systems (I never used one) had
a very limited amount of memory, like 2k.  But I see on Wikipedia that
the 1802 had a 16-bit address space.  How much ram were 1802 Forth
systems typically configured with, if anyone knows?

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#50861

From	Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
Date	2016-09-11 14:57 -0500
Message-ID	<nr4cul$7nc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#50860

On 9/11/2016 2:27 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) writes:
>> Of course there was a working Forth. It was one of the FIG-Forth targets.
>> Not only that, it is a very decent processor for Forth.
>
> Oh cool.  For some reason I thought 1802 systems (I never used one) had
> a very limited amount of memory, like 2k.  But I see on Wikipedia that
> the 1802 had a 16-bit address space.  How much ram were 1802 Forth
> systems typically configured with, if anyone knows?
>
I remember seeing units with 64K of RAM minus a small amount for EPROMS. 
Don't ask me which ones as it was too long ago and not an item of 
interest at the time.
-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#50844

From	Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid>
Date	2016-09-11 05:13 -0500
Message-ID	<5pOdnXeerMves0jKnZ2dnUU7-e-dnZ2d@supernews.com>
In reply to	#50839

Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
>> ... and suddenly a lot more people will be asking themselves WHAT IS
>> IT THE 1802? See the BMP802 PDF on my website - careful, 12MB.
> 
> There's a reasonable 1802 article on Wikipedia, with links to data
> sheets etc.  It's a historically significant cpu and it's cool that
> there were rad hardened versions etc., but I don't see much exciting
> about a modern reimplementation for most people.  Was there a working
> Forth for it?

The 1802 was the target for the first polyFORTH system.

Andrew.

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#50845

From	JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com>
Date	2016-09-11 04:51 -0700
Message-ID	<051faa7d-264b-4c35-9ce6-8e77a1505ede@googlegroups.com>
In reply to	#50839

On Sunday, September 11, 2016 at 9:10:27 AM UTC+1, Paul Rubin wrote:
> JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> writes:
> > ... and suddenly a lot more people will be asking themselves WHAT IS
> > IT THE 1802? See the BMP802 PDF on my website - careful, 12MB.
> 
> There's a reasonable 1802 article on Wikipedia, with links to data
> sheets etc.  It's a historically significant cpu and it's cool that
> there were rad hardened versions etc., but I don't see much exciting
> about a modern reimplementation for most people.  Was there a working
> Forth for it?  If yes, the easiest way to run it might be on a software
> emulation of the processor.

The first implementation was FORTH Inc microForth on the 1802 about 1980. I touched the EPROMS at the time.

Stay out then and find your excitement elsewhere; there is a group of people who want it, 3 FPGA implementations already, a 4th one on the way. 
Different people like different things.
I am not sure why you commented.

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csiph-web

Re: BBC MicroBit has arrived - which Forth in Python is recommended for now?

Contents

#50814

#50837

#50839

#50843

#50860

#50861

#50844

#50845