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Editor for Forth

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  Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-10 17:07 -0500
    Re: Editor for Forth Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 15:47 -0700
      Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-10 18:52 -0500
    Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 19:06 -0400
      Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-10 19:05 -0500
        Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 20:42 -0400
          Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-10 19:59 -0500
            Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 21:11 -0400
    Re: Editor for Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 17:36 -0700
      Re: Editor for Forth Mark C <mdcorbin@googlemail.com> - 2017-05-14 07:33 -0700
    Re: Editor for Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-10 20:39 -0700
      Re: Editor for Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-11 07:09 +0200
        Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 00:57 -0500
          Re: Editor for Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 09:15 +0300
            Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 01:35 -0500
              Re: Editor for Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 09:49 +0300
        Re: Editor for Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-10 23:42 -0700
          Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 01:53 -0500
            Re: Editor for Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 09:59 +0300
            Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 04:32 -0400
              Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 05:52 -0500
                Re: Editor for Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 14:07 +0300
                  Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 07:10 -0500
                Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 14:10 -0400
      Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 00:15 -0500
        Re: Editor for Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-11 07:53 +0200
          Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 01:20 -0500
        Re: Editor for Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-10 23:44 -0700
          Re: Editor for Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-11 08:57 +0200
        Re: Editor for Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 04:34 -0500
          Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 06:29 -0500
            Re: Editor for Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 07:05 -0500
            Re: Editor for Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 08:05 -0700
              Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-12 19:34 -0500
                Re: Editor for Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 18:21 -0700
                  Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-12 21:53 -0500
                    Re: Editor for Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 23:37 -0700
                      Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-13 02:50 -0500
                        Re: Editor for Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 00:11 -0700
          Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 14:41 -0400
            Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 15:44 -0500
              Re: Editor for Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 10:52 +0300
            Re: Editor for Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-12 02:28 -0500
              Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 12:43 -0400
                Re: Editor for Forth Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 10:17 -0700
                  Re: Editor for Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-13 04:39 -0500
      Re: Editor for Forth Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2017-05-11 08:33 +0100
    Re: Editor for Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 07:09 +0300
      Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-11 00:22 -0500
        Re: Editor for Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 08:35 +0300
        Re: Editor for Forth JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-11 00:46 -0700
          Re: Editor for Forth JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2017-05-11 00:50 -0700
    Re: Editor for Forth humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 00:32 -0700
    Re: Editor for Forth stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-11 08:03 +0000
    Re: Editor for Forth Mark C <mdcorbin@googlemail.com> - 2017-05-12 04:50 -0700
      Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 12:54 -0400
        Re: Editor for Forth Mark C <mdcorbin@googlemail.com> - 2017-05-14 07:09 -0700
          Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 13:48 -0400
            Re: Editor for Forth Mark C <mdcorbin@googlemail.com> - 2017-05-14 11:10 -0700
          Re: Editor for Forth peter.m.falth@gmail.com - 2017-05-14 14:28 -0700
            Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 23:02 -0400
              Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 00:03 -0500
              Re: Editor for Forth peter.m.falth@gmail.com - 2017-05-15 13:33 -0700
    Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-12 19:35 -0500
      Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 21:16 -0400
      Re: Editor for Forth Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 22:53 -0700
        Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 02:51 -0400
          Re: Editor for Forth Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 00:02 -0700
            Re: Editor for Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-13 13:36 +0200
        Re: Editor for Forth Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-13 09:09 +0200
        Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-13 02:41 -0500
          Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 10:31 -0400
    Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-20 16:43 -0500
      Re: Editor for Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-20 15:32 -0700
        Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-20 18:57 -0400
          Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-20 18:16 -0500
            Re: Editor for Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-05-20 16:40 -0700
              Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-20 22:04 -0400
                Re: Editor for Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 07:04 +0300
          Re: Editor for Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-21 06:53 +0000
            Re: Editor for Forth Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 10:24 +0300
              Re: Editor for Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-21 14:54 +0000
            Re: Editor for Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-21 20:11 +0200
              Re: Editor for Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-21 14:23 -0400
            Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-21 13:23 -0500
        Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-20 18:15 -0500
        Re: Editor for Forth Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-20 18:33 -0500

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#59097

On 5/11/2017 1:41 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 5/11/2017 5:34 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> But isn't eMacs a keyboard based editor with multi-keys to select
>>> the functions like Vin?
>>
>> Surely all editors are keyboard based?  I don't really understand the
>> point you're making.  If you want menus in Emacs you can turn them on.
>> These days I think they're enabled by default.
> 
> Do you really not understand what he means?  Old school editors do 
> everything through many and varied multi-finger key presses.  In the 
> case of emacs the modifier names are system independent so they aren't 
> convenient for anyone.  Hard to visualize and hard to learn.
> 
> The only menu used often in GUI apps is the right click menu instantly 
> available and flexible with context.  Until you have used multi-finger 
> keystrokes some thousands of times and they become ingrained toolbars 
> are much more convenient.  So it's all about the learning curve.
> 

Got it right, after a while it is automatic, muscle memory but getting 
there takes a lot of effort.

All editors use the keyboard but some a lot more than others. Many 
Window editors I own you can do most of the useful stuff without the 
keyboard and just using the mouse. Those editors have shortcuts that are 
generally one key to activate the feature if you want to use the 
keyboard but not three to four keystrokes.

Emacs and Vim have a lot of four key selections with no other option, 
eventually I will need to make the effort but right now I have too many 
things going on.

Most likely the switch to a common editor will have to wait as my 
options require a large learning curve.
-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#59108

On 11/05/2017 23:44, Cecil Bayona wrote:
oard but not three to four keystrokes.
> 
> Emacs and Vim have a lot of four key selections with no other option,
> eventually I will need to make the effort but right now I have too many
> things going on.

vim doesn't have four-key selections, unless you add them yourself.
Most commands are a single keystroke (perhaps with shift, or with ctrl).
 Some involve several, serial, keystrokes; but those tend to be more
advanced.

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#59105

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 5/11/2017 5:34 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
>> Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> But isn't eMacs a keyboard based editor with multi-keys to select
>>> the functions like Vin?
>>
>> Surely all editors are keyboard based?  I don't really understand the
>> point you're making.  If you want menus in Emacs you can turn them on.
>> These days I think they're enabled by default.
> 
> Do you really not understand what he means?  Old school editors do
> everything through many and varied multi-finger key presses.  In the
> case of emacs the modifier names are system independent so they
> aren't convenient for anyone.  Hard to visualize and hard to learn.

I wanted him to make it clear what he meant.  Emacs has had menus
since forever.  However, menus are very limited because they are
necessarily small: the only way to find complex functions is with many
tedious clicks.  So, Emacs has menus but it not restricted to using
them.

> The only menu used often in GUI apps is the right click menu
> instantly available and flexible with context.  Until you have used
> multi-finger keystrokes some thousands of times and they become
> ingrained toolbars are much more convenient.  So it's all about the
> learning curve.

Shrug.  Each to their own.  All I know is that I'll never have to
learn another editor, so I can get on with what I really want to do.

Andrew.

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#59129

On 5/12/2017 3:28 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/11/2017 5:34 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
>>> Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But isn't eMacs a keyboard based editor with multi-keys to select
>>>> the functions like Vin?
>>>
>>> Surely all editors are keyboard based?  I don't really understand the
>>> point you're making.  If you want menus in Emacs you can turn them on.
>>> These days I think they're enabled by default.
>>
>> Do you really not understand what he means?  Old school editors do
>> everything through many and varied multi-finger key presses.  In the
>> case of emacs the modifier names are system independent so they
>> aren't convenient for anyone.  Hard to visualize and hard to learn.
>
> I wanted him to make it clear what he meant.  Emacs has had menus
> since forever.  However, menus are very limited because they are
> necessarily small: the only way to find complex functions is with many
> tedious clicks.  So, Emacs has menus but it not restricted to using
> them.
>
>> The only menu used often in GUI apps is the right click menu
>> instantly available and flexible with context.  Until you have used
>> multi-finger keystrokes some thousands of times and they become
>> ingrained toolbars are much more convenient.  So it's all about the
>> learning curve.
>
> Shrug.  Each to their own.  All I know is that I'll never have to
> learn another editor, so I can get on with what I really want to do.

Does emacs run under Android?

-- 

Rick C

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#59131

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 11:43:46 AM UTC-5, rickman wrote:
> On 5/12/2017 3:28 AM, Andrew Haley wrote:
> > Shrug.  Each to their own.  All I know is that I'll never have to
> > learn another editor, so I can get on with what I really want to do.
> 
> Does emacs run under Android?

Yes, with Termux.

For vim, run 'vimtutor'. 30 minutes later you're fine.

For emacs, read the splash screen when it starts.

Time To Mastery is absurdly long; Time To Simple Use isn't.

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#59160

Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Time To Mastery is absurdly long; Time To Simple Use isn't.

I agree.  And, IMO, many applications concentrate on making entry as
easy as possible at the expense of long-term usability.  It's fair
enough for occasional use, but if I'm using a debugger and toolchain
ten hours a day you can bet that I really care about minimizing
keystrokes.

Andrew.

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#59052

On Wed, 10 May 2017 20:39:20 -0700
Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>        If you're using the usual Microsoft OS, try a reverse
> defenestration (throwing Windows out of your computer) before
> proceeding.

Sounds a bit severe, I keep all mine in little boxes, so that I
can be reminded of what I am missing. 

Jan Coombs

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#59027

On 11/05/2017 1:07, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with Forth? I
> would prefer something free or at least under $100 as my funds are
> rather limited.
> 
> I would like a programmers editor with you basic features;
...

I use gvim, 8th includes an 8th syntax file so you get highlighting.
It's free, it works on all the platforms, it's extremely powerful.

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#59031

On 5/10/2017 11:09 PM, Ron Aaron wrote:
> 
> 
> On 11/05/2017 1:07, Cecil Bayona wrote:
>> Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with Forth? I
>> would prefer something free or at least under $100 as my funds are
>> rather limited.
>>
>> I would like a programmers editor with you basic features;
> ...
> 
> I use gvim, 8th includes an 8th syntax file so you get highlighting.
> It's free, it works on all the platforms, it's extremely powerful.
> 
I should have been more specific as I want a graphical editor so as few 
keys need to be learned. eMacs, and Vim and it's relatives are out 
unless I have no choice. Lately I been trying to learn several languages 
and adding a complex editor is a bit much.

Sorry I'm getting old and a long time ago I used key based editors like 
Word Perfect and predecessors I rather use my few remaining 
un-programmed brain cells for different purposes.

-- 
Cecil - k5nwa

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#59032

On 05/11/17 08:22, Cecil Bayona wrote:

> I should have been more specific as I want a graphical editor 

gvim is graphical

> so as few
> keys need to be learned. eMacs, and Vim and it's relatives are out
> unless I have no choice. Lately I been trying to learn several languages
> and adding a complex editor is a bit much.

OK; though the actual point of vim/gvim is that you use fewer keystrokes
(though it's true you have to remember about 20 commands to be effective)

> Sorry I'm getting old and a long time ago I used key based editors like
> Word Perfect and predecessors I rather use my few remaining
> un-programmed brain cells for different purposes.

Good luck!

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#59054

On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 6:22:59 AM UTC+1, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> On 5/10/2017 11:09 PM, Ron Aaron wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On 11/05/2017 1:07, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> >> Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with Forth? I
> >> would prefer something free or at least under $100 as my funds are
> >> rather limited.
> >>
> >> I would like a programmers editor with you basic features;
> > ...
> > 
> > I use gvim, 8th includes an 8th syntax file so you get highlighting.
> > It's free, it works on all the platforms, it's extremely powerful.
> > 
> I should have been more specific as I want a graphical editor so as few 
> keys need to be learned. eMacs, and Vim and it's relatives are out 
> unless I have no choice. Lately I been trying to learn several languages 
> and adding a complex editor is a bit much.
> 
> Sorry I'm getting old and a long time ago I used key based editors like 
> Word Perfect and predecessors I rather use my few remaining 
> un-programmed brain cells for different purposes.
> 
> -- 
> Cecil - k5nwa

Have you tried the VFX Package. If you download the trial version then AIDE is included - and simple editor is part of it. And you can add any editor you want to AIDE - described in the AIDE documentation. Terminal Interface for ARM and 430 is included in the relevant versions, see http://www.mpeforth.com/resource-links/downloads/  and some notes about colouring as well on the same page.

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#59056

On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 8:47:00 AM UTC+1, JUERGEN wrote:
> On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 6:22:59 AM UTC+1, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> > On 5/10/2017 11:09 PM, Ron Aaron wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 11/05/2017 1:07, Cecil Bayona wrote:
> > >> Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with Forth? I
> > >> would prefer something free or at least under $100 as my funds are
> > >> rather limited.
> > >>
> > >> I would like a programmers editor with you basic features;
> > > ...
> > > 
> > > I use gvim, 8th includes an 8th syntax file so you get highlighting.
> > > It's free, it works on all the platforms, it's extremely powerful.
> > > 
> > I should have been more specific as I want a graphical editor so as few 
> > keys need to be learned. eMacs, and Vim and it's relatives are out 
> > unless I have no choice. Lately I been trying to learn several languages 
> > and adding a complex editor is a bit much.
> > 
> > Sorry I'm getting old and a long time ago I used key based editors like 
> > Word Perfect and predecessors I rather use my few remaining 
> > un-programmed brain cells for different purposes.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Cecil - k5nwa
> 
> Have you tried the VFX Package. If you download the trial version then AIDE is included - and simple editor is part of it. And you can add any editor you want to AIDE - described in the AIDE documentation. Terminal Interface for ARM and 430 is included in the relevant versions, see http://www.mpeforth.com/resource-links/downloads/  and some notes about colouring as well on the same page.

Ultraedit is one of Stephen's favourites https://www.ultraedit.com/catalog/   coloring file for download on the same MPE webpage as mentioned before

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#59051

On Thursday, May 11, 2017 at 1:07:35 AM UTC+3, Cecil - k5nwa wrote:
> Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with Forth? I 
> would prefer something free or at least under $100 as my funds are 
> rather limited.
> 
> I would like a programmers editor with you basic features;
> 
> Able to open more than one file at a time.
> Print listings with line numbers.
> Understand Forth so it can autocomplete structures such as IF etc.
> Be able to use color to identify Forth Words, numbers, etc.
> If I have to pay money then I would like it to know how to interface to 
> at least VFX, and SwiftForth.
> 
> There are some free programmer editors that can take a file to customize 
> it to a language any suitable for Forth use?
> 
> Any thoughts or preferences?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
> Cecil - k5nwa

Hi!

For a scratch-pad I use venerable line-editor 'ed'.
A line editor, so I stay inside terminal and comfortable
see what I coded before. Mouse copy/paste is a great help too.

Have a nice day,
hum9

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#59058

On Wed, 10 May 2017 17:07:31 -0500, Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com>
wrote:

>Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with Forth? I 
>would prefer something free or at least under $100 as my funds are 
>rather limited.

UltraEdit does a good job on Windows, macOS and Linux. It's 
commercial.
  http://www.ultraedit.com

Geany works well on all Linuces that I have tried, including the
Raspberrry Pi. There are Mac and Windows versions.
  https://www.geany.org/

Stephen

-- 
Stephen Pelc, stephenXXX@mpeforth.com
MicroProcessor Engineering Ltd - More Real, Less Time
133 Hill Lane, Southampton SO15 5AF, England
tel: +44 (0)23 8063 1441, fax: +44 (0)23 8033 9691
web: http://www.mpeforth.com - free VFX Forth downloads

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#59113

On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 23:07:35 UTC+1, Cecil - k5nwa  wrote:
> Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with Forth? I 
> would prefer something free or at least under $100 as my funds are 
> rather limited.
> 
> I would like a programmers editor with you basic features;
> 
> Able to open more than one file at a time.
> Print listings with line numbers.
> Understand Forth so it can autocomplete structures such as IF etc.
> Be able to use color to identify Forth Words, numbers, etc.
> If I have to pay money then I would like it to know how to interface to 
> at least VFX, and SwiftForth.
> 
> There are some free programmer editors that can take a file to customize 
> it to a language any suitable for Forth use?
> 
> Any thoughts or preferences?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
> Cecil - k5nwa

I've written Forth syntax highlighters for gedit, jEdit, UltraEdit and Kate. They should be part of their respective packages - if not, they are available here:

http://www.dibsco.co.uk/forth/syntax/gedit

The file extension '.4th' is used by most of them (the gedit developers specifically asked me to remove '.fs' as it clashed with Fortran).

I have another one in development for SciTE/Scintilla, but it seems to be taking me an eternity to get round to finishing it :-)

Regards

Mark

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#59130

On 5/12/2017 7:50 AM, Mark C wrote:
> On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 23:07:35 UTC+1, Cecil - k5nwa  wrote:
>> Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with Forth? I
>>  would prefer something free or at least under $100 as my funds are
>>  rather limited.
>>
>> I would like a programmers editor with you basic features;
>>
>> Able to open more than one file at a time. Print listings with line
>> numbers. Understand Forth so it can autocomplete structures such as
>> IF etc. Be able to use color to identify Forth Words, numbers,
>> etc. If I have to pay money then I would like it to know how to
>> interface to at least VFX, and SwiftForth.
>>
>> There are some free programmer editors that can take a file to
>> customize it to a language any suitable for Forth use?
>>
>> Any thoughts or preferences?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> -- Cecil - k5nwa
>
> I've written Forth syntax highlighters for gedit, jEdit, UltraEdit
> and Kate. They should be part of their respective packages - if not,
> they are available here:
>
> http://www.dibsco.co.uk/forth/syntax/gedit
>
> The file extension '.4th' is used by most of them (the gedit
> developers specifically asked me to remove '.fs' as it clashed with
> Fortran).
>
> I have another one in development for SciTE/Scintilla, but it seems
> to be taking me an eternity to get round to finishing it :-)

I typically use '.f' for forth source files.  Is that also used for
Fortran?

I'm having some problems getting up the learning curve with SciTE.  Can 
you point me to any teaching materials?  I've found info on the 
properties files, but it is written to explain the commands rather than 
showing how to do various things.  I'm having trouble controlling the 
font used and the mono/proportional flag.  Is there an explanation of 
how this works?  Does setting the monospace feature only display the 
font.monospace for all items while having it off allows multiple type 
faces to be used?  Any idea what the list of type faces is?  I'd like to 
explore alternate monospaced fonts.  Or maybe I'm using tabs incorrectly?

-- 

Rick C

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#59217

On Friday, 12 May 2017 17:54:03 UTC+1, rickman  wrote:
> On 5/12/2017 7:50 AM, Mark C wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 23:07:35 UTC+1, Cecil - k5nwa  wrote:
> >> Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with Forth? I
> >>  would prefer something free or at least under $100 as my funds are
> >>  rather limited.
> >>
> >> I would like a programmers editor with you basic features;
> >>
> >> Able to open more than one file at a time. Print listings with line
> >> numbers. Understand Forth so it can autocomplete structures such as
> >> IF etc. Be able to use color to identify Forth Words, numbers,
> >> etc. If I have to pay money then I would like it to know how to
> >> interface to at least VFX, and SwiftForth.
> >>
> >> There are some free programmer editors that can take a file to
> >> customize it to a language any suitable for Forth use?
> >>
> >> Any thoughts or preferences?
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> -- Cecil - k5nwa
> >
> > I've written Forth syntax highlighters for gedit, jEdit, UltraEdit
> > and Kate. They should be part of their respective packages - if not,
> > they are available here:
> >
> > http://www.dibsco.co.uk/forth/syntax/gedit
> >
> > The file extension '.4th' is used by most of them (the gedit
> > developers specifically asked me to remove '.fs' as it clashed with
> > Fortran).
> >
> > I have another one in development for SciTE/Scintilla, but it seems
> > to be taking me an eternity to get round to finishing it :-)
> 
> I typically use '.f' for forth source files.  Is that also used for
> Fortran?

The extension '.f' is used for Fortran and '.fs' is used for FSharp. I've found that the safest way to avoid clashes is to use '.4th' and '.forth'.

> 
> I'm having some problems getting up the learning curve with SciTE.  Can 
> you point me to any teaching materials?  I've found info on the 
> properties files, but it is written to explain the commands rather than 
> showing how to do various things.  I'm having trouble controlling the 
> font used and the mono/proportional flag.  Is there an explanation of 
> how this works?  Does setting the monospace feature only display the 
> font.monospace for all items while having it off allows multiple type 
> faces to be used?  Any idea what the list of type faces is?  I'd like to 
> explore alternate monospaced fonts.  Or maybe I'm using tabs incorrectly?

I have been doing quite a bit of work with SciTE, but haven't looked at the fonts at all.

I should point out that the Forth highlighter for SciTE doesn't work by default. It won't match any keywords at all, so almost everything is highlighted as 'Idenitifer' (which seems to be the default state for anything that is not recognised). The Forth lexer converts the incoming text to lowercase, but the keywords in the forth.properties file are all in uppercase - so they never match. You can edit forth.properties and convert the keywords to lowercase, but there are still other issues with the highlighting:

	- words starting with characters other than a-z are not highlighted correctly.
	- floating point numbers are not highlighted correct (as per the ANS-94 regex definition)

It is also worth noting that:

	- it highlights control words separately, which doesn't appear to be a common approach across other language highlighters that I have looked at.
	- it provides highlighting for an 'unknown' dialect of Forth.
	- it doesn't support code folding.

The new version that I am currently working on supports the ANS-94 standard, including all wordsets, and also provides code folding. I have looked at implementing word autocompletion, but I'm not sure whether it will operate correctly. Most syntax highlighting systems that I have looked at are much friendlier to a C-style syntax and are tricky to configure for use with a more free-form language like Forth.

Regards

Mark

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#59224

On 5/14/2017 10:09 AM, Mark C wrote:
> On Friday, 12 May 2017 17:54:03 UTC+1, rickman  wrote:
>> On 5/12/2017 7:50 AM, Mark C wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 23:07:35 UTC+1, Cecil - k5nwa  wrote:
>>>> Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with
>>>> Forth? I would prefer something free or at least under $100 as
>>>> my funds are rather limited.
>>>>
>>>> I would like a programmers editor with you basic features;
>>>>
>>>> Able to open more than one file at a time. Print listings with
>>>> line numbers. Understand Forth so it can autocomplete
>>>> structures such as IF etc. Be able to use color to identify
>>>> Forth Words, numbers, etc. If I have to pay money then I would
>>>> like it to know how to interface to at least VFX, and
>>>> SwiftForth.
>>>>
>>>> There are some free programmer editors that can take a file to
>>>> customize it to a language any suitable for Forth use?
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts or preferences?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> -- Cecil - k5nwa
>>>
>>> I've written Forth syntax highlighters for gedit, jEdit,
>>> UltraEdit and Kate. They should be part of their respective
>>> packages - if not, they are available here:
>>>
>>> http://www.dibsco.co.uk/forth/syntax/gedit
>>>
>>> The file extension '.4th' is used by most of them (the gedit
>>> developers specifically asked me to remove '.fs' as it clashed
>>> with Fortran).
>>>
>>> I have another one in development for SciTE/Scintilla, but it
>>> seems to be taking me an eternity to get round to finishing it
>>> :-)
>>
>> I typically use '.f' for forth source files.  Is that also used
>> for Fortran?
>
> The extension '.f' is used for Fortran and '.fs' is used for FSharp.
> I've found that the safest way to avoid clashes is to use '.4th' and
> '.forth'.

Any given language can be disabled in SciTE and I have disabled Fortran, 
so there isn't a conflict.


>> I'm having some problems getting up the learning curve with SciTE.
>> Can you point me to any teaching materials?  I've found info on the
>>  properties files, but it is written to explain the commands rather
>> than showing how to do various things.  I'm having trouble
>> controlling the font used and the mono/proportional flag.  Is there
>> an explanation of how this works?  Does setting the monospace
>> feature only display the font.monospace for all items while having
>> it off allows multiple type faces to be used?  Any idea what the
>> list of type faces is?  I'd like to explore alternate monospaced
>> fonts.  Or maybe I'm using tabs incorrectly?
>
> I have been doing quite a bit of work with SciTE, but haven't looked
> at the fonts at all.

I did find that the mono font issue is dealt with in the FAQ.  They say 
to change all your fonts to font.monospace.  But that does it for 
*everything*, not just the programming language file types.  I guess 
this could be added to the programming language properties file rather 
than the global or user properties file.


> I should point out that the Forth highlighter for SciTE doesn't work
> by default. It won't match any keywords at all, so almost everything
> is highlighted as 'Idenitifer' (which seems to be the default state
> for anything that is not recognised). The Forth lexer converts the
> incoming text to lowercase, but the keywords in the forth.properties
> file are all in uppercase - so they never match. You can edit
> forth.properties and convert the keywords to lowercase, but there are
> still other issues with the highlighting:

I don't see keywords highlighted, that's true.  I tried making the 
keywords in the Forth properties file lower case and that didn't change 
anything.  I'm not sure this file is being read.  I don't know where it 
needs to be.


> - words starting with characters other than a-z are not highlighted
> correctly. - floating point numbers are not highlighted correct (as
> per the ANS-94 regex definition)
>
> It is also worth noting that:
>
> - it highlights control words separately, which doesn't appear to be
> a common approach across other language highlighters that I have
> looked at. - it provides highlighting for an 'unknown' dialect of
> Forth. - it doesn't support code folding.

I much prefer control word highlighting or at least distinct highlighting.


> The new version that I am currently working on supports the ANS-94
> standard, including all wordsets, and also provides code folding. I
> have looked at implementing word autocompletion, but I'm not sure
> whether it will operate correctly. Most syntax highlighting systems
> that I have looked at are much friendlier to a C-style syntax and are
> tricky to configure for use with a more free-form language like
> Forth.

Personally I would much prefer that something be available with the 
basics working correctly than any fancy features.  I think word 
autocompletion is far down my list of requirements.  I can't imagine 
that being terribly useful unless it works with user defined words.

-- 

Rick C

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#59225

On Sunday, 14 May 2017 18:48:04 UTC+1, rickman  wrote:
> On 5/14/2017 10:09 AM, Mark C wrote:
> > On Friday, 12 May 2017 17:54:03 UTC+1, rickman  wrote:
> >> On 5/12/2017 7:50 AM, Mark C wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 23:07:35 UTC+1, Cecil - k5nwa  wrote:
> >>>> Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with
> >>>> Forth? I would prefer something free or at least under $100 as
> >>>> my funds are rather limited.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would like a programmers editor with you basic features;
> >>>>
> >>>> Able to open more than one file at a time. Print listings with
> >>>> line numbers. Understand Forth so it can autocomplete
> >>>> structures such as IF etc. Be able to use color to identify
> >>>> Forth Words, numbers, etc. If I have to pay money then I would
> >>>> like it to know how to interface to at least VFX, and
> >>>> SwiftForth.
> >>>>
> >>>> There are some free programmer editors that can take a file to
> >>>> customize it to a language any suitable for Forth use?
> >>>>
> >>>> Any thoughts or preferences?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Cecil - k5nwa
> >>>
> >>> I've written Forth syntax highlighters for gedit, jEdit,
> >>> UltraEdit and Kate. They should be part of their respective
> >>> packages - if not, they are available here:
> >>>
> >>> http://www.dibsco.co.uk/forth/syntax/gedit
> >>>
> >>> The file extension '.4th' is used by most of them (the gedit
> >>> developers specifically asked me to remove '.fs' as it clashed
> >>> with Fortran).
> >>>
> >>> I have another one in development for SciTE/Scintilla, but it
> >>> seems to be taking me an eternity to get round to finishing it
> >>> :-)
> >>
> >> I typically use '.f' for forth source files.  Is that also used
> >> for Fortran?
> >
> > The extension '.f' is used for Fortran and '.fs' is used for FSharp.
> > I've found that the safest way to avoid clashes is to use '.4th' and
> > '.forth'.
> 
> Any given language can be disabled in SciTE and I have disabled Fortran, 
> so there isn't a conflict.
> 
> 
> >> I'm having some problems getting up the learning curve with SciTE.
> >> Can you point me to any teaching materials?  I've found info on the
> >>  properties files, but it is written to explain the commands rather
> >> than showing how to do various things.  I'm having trouble
> >> controlling the font used and the mono/proportional flag.  Is there
> >> an explanation of how this works?  Does setting the monospace
> >> feature only display the font.monospace for all items while having
> >> it off allows multiple type faces to be used?  Any idea what the
> >> list of type faces is?  I'd like to explore alternate monospaced
> >> fonts.  Or maybe I'm using tabs incorrectly?
> >
> > I have been doing quite a bit of work with SciTE, but haven't looked
> > at the fonts at all.
> 
> I did find that the mono font issue is dealt with in the FAQ.  They say 
> to change all your fonts to font.monospace.  But that does it for 
> *everything*, not just the programming language file types.  I guess 
> this could be added to the programming language properties file rather 
> than the global or user properties file.
> 
> 
> > I should point out that the Forth highlighter for SciTE doesn't work
> > by default. It won't match any keywords at all, so almost everything
> > is highlighted as 'Idenitifer' (which seems to be the default state
> > for anything that is not recognised). The Forth lexer converts the
> > incoming text to lowercase, but the keywords in the forth.properties
> > file are all in uppercase - so they never match. You can edit
> > forth.properties and convert the keywords to lowercase, but there are
> > still other issues with the highlighting:
> 
> I don't see keywords highlighted, that's true.  I tried making the 
> keywords in the Forth properties file lower case and that didn't change 
> anything.  I'm not sure this file is being read.  I don't know where it 
> needs to be.
> 
> 
> > - words starting with characters other than a-z are not highlighted
> > correctly. - floating point numbers are not highlighted correct (as
> > per the ANS-94 regex definition)
> >
> > It is also worth noting that:
> >
> > - it highlights control words separately, which doesn't appear to be
> > a common approach across other language highlighters that I have
> > looked at. - it provides highlighting for an 'unknown' dialect of
> > Forth. - it doesn't support code folding.
> 
> I much prefer control word highlighting or at least distinct highlighting.
> 
> 
> > The new version that I am currently working on supports the ANS-94
> > standard, including all wordsets, and also provides code folding. I
> > have looked at implementing word autocompletion, but I'm not sure
> > whether it will operate correctly. Most syntax highlighting systems
> > that I have looked at are much friendlier to a C-style syntax and are
> > tricky to configure for use with a more free-form language like
> > Forth.
> 
> Personally I would much prefer that something be available with the 
> basics working correctly than any fancy features.  I think word 
> autocompletion is far down my list of requirements.  I can't imagine 
> that being terribly useful unless it works with user defined words.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick C

I can probably help you to get the highlighting working. I'll drop you a PM with my email address.

Regards

Mark

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#59232

On Sunday, 14 May 2017 16:09:14 UTC+2, Mark C  wrote:
> On Friday, 12 May 2017 17:54:03 UTC+1, rickman  wrote:
> > On 5/12/2017 7:50 AM, Mark C wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 23:07:35 UTC+1, Cecil - k5nwa  wrote:
> > >> Which programmers editor would be recommended for use with Forth? I
> > >>  would prefer something free or at least under $100 as my funds are
> > >>  rather limited.
> > >>
> > >> I would like a programmers editor with you basic features;
> > >>
> > >> Able to open more than one file at a time. Print listings with line
> > >> numbers. Understand Forth so it can autocomplete structures such as
> > >> IF etc. Be able to use color to identify Forth Words, numbers,
> > >> etc. If I have to pay money then I would like it to know how to
> > >> interface to at least VFX, and SwiftForth.
> > >>
> > >> There are some free programmer editors that can take a file to
> > >> customize it to a language any suitable for Forth use?
> > >>
> > >> Any thoughts or preferences?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >>
> > >> -- Cecil - k5nwa
> > >
> > > I've written Forth syntax highlighters for gedit, jEdit, UltraEdit
> > > and Kate. They should be part of their respective packages - if not,
> > > they are available here:
> > >
> > > http://www.dibsco.co.uk/forth/syntax/gedit
> > >
> > > The file extension '.4th' is used by most of them (the gedit
> > > developers specifically asked me to remove '.fs' as it clashed with
> > > Fortran).
> > >
> > > I have another one in development for SciTE/Scintilla, but it seems
> > > to be taking me an eternity to get round to finishing it :-)
> > 
> > I typically use '.f' for forth source files.  Is that also used for
> > Fortran?
> 
> The extension '.f' is used for Fortran and '.fs' is used for FSharp. I've found that the safest way to avoid clashes is to use '.4th' and '.forth'.
> 
> > 
> > I'm having some problems getting up the learning curve with SciTE.  Can 
> > you point me to any teaching materials?  I've found info on the 
> > properties files, but it is written to explain the commands rather than 
> > showing how to do various things.  I'm having trouble controlling the 
> > font used and the mono/proportional flag.  Is there an explanation of 
> > how this works?  Does setting the monospace feature only display the 
> > font.monospace for all items while having it off allows multiple type 
> > faces to be used?  Any idea what the list of type faces is?  I'd like to 
> > explore alternate monospaced fonts.  Or maybe I'm using tabs incorrectly?
> 
> I have been doing quite a bit of work with SciTE, but haven't looked at the fonts at all.
> 
> I should point out that the Forth highlighter for SciTE doesn't work by default. It won't match any keywords at all, so almost everything is highlighted as 'Idenitifer' (which seems to be the default state for anything that is not recognised). The Forth lexer converts the incoming text to lowercase, but the keywords in the forth.properties file are all in uppercase - so they never match. You can edit forth.properties and convert the keywords to lowercase, but there are still other issues with the highlighting:
> 
> 	- words starting with characters other than a-z are not highlighted correctly.
> 	- floating point numbers are not highlighted correct (as per the ANS-94 regex definition)
> 
> It is also worth noting that:
> 
> 	- it highlights control words separately, which doesn't appear to be a common approach across other language highlighters that I have looked at.
> 	- it provides highlighting for an 'unknown' dialect of Forth.
> 	- it doesn't support code folding.
> 
> The new version that I am currently working on supports the ANS-94 standard, including all wordsets, and also provides code folding. I have looked at implementing word autocompletion, but I'm not sure whether it will operate correctly. Most syntax highlighting systems that I have looked at are much friendlier to a C-style syntax and are tricky to configure for use with a more free-form language like Forth.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Mark

I have rewritten the forth lexer in SciTe to support context sensitive
coloring. I have used this for many years and really like it.
I did look at implementing folding but found that I would not use it.

As the lexer is written in C++ it is quite easy to modify and customize
to your needs. Even for a non C++ programmer like me!

If you like a copy (source or compiled) please tell me

Peter

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