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Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations?

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  Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-17 04:35 -0700
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 05:21 -0700
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 08:57 -0700
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-17 10:58 -0700
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-06-17 22:39 +0100
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 23:10 -0700
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 16:24 -0400
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 16:17 -0400
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 07:49 -0700
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 09:36 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 13:40 -0700
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 13:00 -0400
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 11:13 -0700
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 15:04 -0400
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 20:25 -0700
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 20:34 -0700
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:40 -0400
              Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 08:29 -0700
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 13:40 -0400
                  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-23 13:42 -0700
                    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 07:11 -0700
                    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 11:15 -0400
                      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 10:16 -0700
                        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 17:54 -0400
                      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-24 15:01 -0700
                        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 18:38 -0400
                          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-24 16:37 -0700
                            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 21:01 -0400
                              Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-26 12:58 -0700
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 12:24 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 14:03 -0700
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 15:03 -0700
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-21 01:33 -0700
              Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:47 -0400
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? darek.maksimiuk@gmail.com - 2015-06-30 13:52 -0700
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-07-01 10:45 -0700
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-07-01 15:01 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-07-01 18:14 -0700
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 00:49 -0700
              Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-07-02 03:02 -0700

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#39801 — Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations?

Hi All,

Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in Forth?

Rough Spec. :
DIN Rail mounting
PSU 9 to 35V DC
2 x RS232
1 x RS485
1 x CAN bus.

I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various serial protocols into a data format that can be sent to a GSM modem.

Best regards & TIA,
Howerd

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#39802

On Wednesday, 17 June 2015 12:35:39 UTC+1, Howerd  wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in Forth?
> 
> Rough Spec. :
> DIN Rail mounting
> PSU 9 to 35V DC
> 2 x RS232
> 1 x RS485
> 1 x CAN bus.
> 
> I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various serial protocols into a data format that can be sent to a GSM modem.
> 
> Best regards & TIA,
> Howerd

Have a look at the Microrobotics stuff. Their boards don't run Forth,
but with work you could put your own on there. However, there really
wouldn't be any need to. The board includes a high-level language
that runs all the protocols you require right from power up (including
TCP/IP). All the software to support things like SD readers (with FAT 
filing system) is there, as well as the code to address LCD panels,
touch screen LCD panels, and colour touch screen LCD panels. The software
library that is used to create GUIs is free (if you need a GUI) as is
the development IDE. There's a range of industrial boards all designed
on the shelf, ready to plug in. Most use I2C as the comms medium.

Unbeatable.

http://microrobotics.co.uk/company/home.html

* I don't have any affiliation with Microrobotics, but in previous years
I purchased many hundreds of SBCs from them.

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#39806

miercuri, 17 iunie 2015, 14:35:39 UTC+3, Howerd a scris:
> Hi All,
> 
> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in Forth?
> 
> Rough Spec. :
> DIN Rail mounting
> PSU 9 to 35V DC
> 2 x RS232
> 1 x RS485
> 1 x CAN bus.
> 
> I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various serial protocols into a data format that can be sent to a GSM modem.
> 
> Best regards & TIA,
> Howerd

Seems to be more of a communication gateway, also programmable in some 
language. I don't google for you, I suppose you've done that. Probably hard to find... 
None of my boards have the exact combination of features. I have never used CAN in fact.

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#39808

On Wednesday, June 17, 2015 at 4:35:39 AM UTC-7, Howerd wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in Forth?

You mean there isn't just something you can pull of of the shelf
with an RTX2000 in it and 500 pins ready to be bitbanged, as well
as several dozen lexicons which will do the bitbanging for your
if you are too lazy to do it yourself?

Seems like Forth is in a precarious position to me.

Jason

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#39810

On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 04:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi All,
> 
> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I
> can program in Forth?
> 
> Rough Spec. :
> DIN Rail mounting
> PSU 9 to 35V DC
> 2 x RS232
> 1 x RS485
> 1 x CAN bus.
> 
> I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various
> serial protocols into a data format that can be
> sent to a GSM modem.

likely chip family:
http://www.nxp.com/products/microcontrollers/product_series/lpc1100/LPC11C24FBD48.html
demo board:
http://www.nxp.com/demoboard/OM13012.html
local supplier:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NXP-OM13012-LPC11C24-LPCXPRESSO-DEMO-BOARD-/350750239669?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item51aa57ebb5
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NXP-OM13014-KIT-DEV-LPCXPRESSO-LPC11U14-/181209708487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a30f0b7c7

I've used plastic din-rail mounting boxes with
screw terminals in the lid, but these look
bigger, and local supplier:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIN-Rail-Mounting-Box-Case-x3-Width-/300938761958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item46115916e6
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIN-Rail-Mounting-Box-Case-x12-Width-/121125776619?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c33a8aceb

Want some help assembling it? 


Jan Coombs.
-- 
email valid, else fix dots and hyphen
jan4clf2014@murrayhyphenmicroftdotcodotuk

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#39813

joi, 18 iunie 2015, 00:40:01 UTC+3, Jan Coombs a scris:
> On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 04:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
> Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I
> > can program in Forth?
> > 
> > Rough Spec. :
> > DIN Rail mounting
> > PSU 9 to 35V DC
> > 2 x RS232
> > 1 x RS485
> > 1 x CAN bus.
> > 
> > I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various
> > serial protocols into a data format that can be
> > sent to a GSM modem.
> 
> likely chip family:
> http://www.nxp.com/products/microcontrollers/product_series/lpc1100/LPC11C24FBD48.html
> demo board:
> http://www.nxp.com/demoboard/OM13012.html
> local supplier:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NXP-OM13012-LPC11C24-LPCXPRESSO-DEMO-BOARD-/350750239669?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item51aa57ebb5
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NXP-OM13014-KIT-DEV-LPCXPRESSO-LPC11U14-/181209708487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a30f0b7c7
> 
> I've used plastic din-rail mounting boxes with
> screw terminals in the lid, but these look
> bigger, and local supplier:
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIN-Rail-Mounting-Box-Case-x3-Width-/300938761958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item46115916e6
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIN-Rail-Mounting-Box-Case-x12-Width-/121125776619?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c33a8aceb
> 
> Want some help assembling it? 
> 
> 
> Jan Coombs.
> -- 
> email valid, else fix dots and hyphen
> jan4clf2014@murrayhyphenmicroftdotcodotuk

Are you serious? Yes, please help Howerd assemblying those OM13014 boards in those 
plastic enclosures. Don't forget to add 9-36VDC power supply, RS232 drivers,
RS485 drivers and CAN drivers. Personally I would add optoisolation at least for
RS485 and CAN.
And you probably have to be quite fast, because Howerd wants the systems now.

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#39839

On 6/18/2015 2:10 AM, Raimond Dragomir wrote:
> joi, 18 iunie 2015, 00:40:01 UTC+3, Jan Coombs a scris:
>> On Wed, 17 Jun 2015 04:35:38 -0700 (PDT)
>> Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I
>>> can program in Forth?
>>>
>>> Rough Spec. :
>>> DIN Rail mounting
>>> PSU 9 to 35V DC
>>> 2 x RS232
>>> 1 x RS485
>>> 1 x CAN bus.
>>>
>>> I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various
>>> serial protocols into a data format that can be
>>> sent to a GSM modem.
>>
>> likely chip family:
>> http://www.nxp.com/products/microcontrollers/product_series/lpc1100/LPC11C24FBD48.html
>> demo board:
>> http://www.nxp.com/demoboard/OM13012.html
>> local supplier:
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NXP-OM13012-LPC11C24-LPCXPRESSO-DEMO-BOARD-/350750239669?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item51aa57ebb5
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NXP-OM13014-KIT-DEV-LPCXPRESSO-LPC11U14-/181209708487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a30f0b7c7
>>
>> I've used plastic din-rail mounting boxes with
>> screw terminals in the lid, but these look
>> bigger, and local supplier:
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIN-Rail-Mounting-Box-Case-x3-Width-/300938761958?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item46115916e6
>> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIN-Rail-Mounting-Box-Case-x12-Width-/121125776619?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c33a8aceb
>>
>> Want some help assembling it?
>>
>>
>> Jan Coombs.
>> --
>> email valid, else fix dots and hyphen
>> jan4clf2014@murrayhyphenmicroftdotcodotuk
>
> Are you serious? Yes, please help Howerd assemblying those OM13014 boards in those
> plastic enclosures. Don't forget to add 9-36VDC power supply, RS232 drivers,
> RS485 drivers and CAN drivers. Personally I would add optoisolation at least for
> RS485 and CAN.
> And you probably have to be quite fast, because Howerd wants the systems now.

Other than the "now" part, I'm your huckleberry... or... I'm your huckle 
bearer... no, that second one doesn't fit this situation. lol

I am working on a similar device now.  It is an outdoor terminal with an 
alphanumeric display and push buttons rated for at least IP65 and a wide 
temperature range.  The requester has asked for a Raspberry Pi, but that 
isn't rated for wide temps.  I'll have to get him to accept something 
else of course, but the idea of interfacing an e-Paper display to the 
rPi is interesting.  There are a couple of Kickstarter projects which 
are interfacing smaller e-Paper displays.  Both widely exceeded their 
goals.  There was also one that turned into a Kickscam with no 
indication of ever delivering a product.

Most of the work on this is "just" mechanical design.  Keeping water and 
dust out is not easy.  I think a DIN rail mounted product with no IP (or 
NEMA) rating would be somewhat easier.

-- 

Rick

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#39837

On 6/17/2015 7:35 AM, Howerd wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in Forth?
>
> Rough Spec. :
> DIN Rail mounting
> PSU 9 to 35V DC
> 2 x RS232
> 1 x RS485
> 1 x CAN bus.
>
> I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various serial protocols into a data format that can be sent to a GSM modem.

Not trying to be a smart guy, but doesn't this question equate to "Can 
anyone recommend an industrial SBC" with the same specs?

-- 

Rick

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#39885

On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 9:17:48 PM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
> On 6/17/2015 7:35 AM, Howerd wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in Forth?
> >
> > Rough Spec. :
> > DIN Rail mounting
> > PSU 9 to 35V DC
> > 2 x RS232
> > 1 x RS485
> > 1 x CAN bus.
> >
> > I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various serial protocols into a data format that can be sent to a GSM modem.
> 
> Not trying to be a smart guy, but doesn't this question equate to "Can 
> anyone recommend an industrial SBC" with the same specs?
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick

Hi Rick,

> > Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in Forth?
> doesn't this question equate to "Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC"
Yes. With the additional requirement that I can program it *easily* in Forth.

There are actually two parts to this problem :
1. Finding a sensible industrial SBC, and 
2. Programming it

I spent some time on Google, and I was amazed at what is *not* available.
With all the excitement over the Rapsberry Pi, Arduino and manifold MSP430/ARM evaluation boards, I only found two that came close : the one that Mark Wills posted, the VM2 (http://www.microrobotics.co.uk/vm2/appboards.html ), and my own board, the IS5d :  http://www.inventio.co.uk/Upgrading_your_hardware_-_a_case_study.html.
Everything else seems to be either a PC or a smartphone in a metal box.
Some even have heatsinks and fans...

Unfortunately the VM2 has a maximum supply voltage of 28V, which is too low for running from a nominally 24V diesel engine battery.
Also unfortunately, the IS5d only has one serial port (who would have thought that anyone would need more than one???).
Maybe I can bit-bang a second serial port at 9600 baud on the IS5d's CTS and RTS pins... 

As for programming this : I've got code to do everything that I need, I just have to bolt it together in a new way. I'll probably add another task to the system...

It seems that computer hardware, as well as software, is a division of the fashion industry, and has very little to do with either elegance or getting the job done.

Best regards,
Howerd

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#39893

Nice work Howerd!
I visited your site, looking at the boards there.
Very nice enclosure for you conveyour belt controller indeed. i admit
I'm not a fan of that kind of lcd (especially white on blue) but
overall is indeed very professional.
I also work in weighing industry (among others). I also have a conveyor
belt controller family. I cannot though make such a nice "museum" because
I don't have old boards anymore... although it would have been interesting: 
it started with a Z80 system (one system replaced shortly) in 1995, 
then 8051 till 2000, then rabbit2000, then eZ8 (Z8encore) then a Cortex-M3 
in 2010 till now. It seems that I keep a micro for 5 years :) (although
I really cannot see a reason to change my actual Cortex-M3 - a LPC1756 -
unless it will become obsolete)

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#39903

On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 5:36:01 PM UTC+1, Raimond Dragomir wrote:
> Nice work Howerd!
> I visited your site, looking at the boards there.
> Very nice enclosure for you conveyour belt controller indeed. i admit
> I'm not a fan of that kind of lcd (especially white on blue) but
> overall is indeed very professional.
> I also work in weighing industry (among others). I also have a conveyor
> belt controller family. I cannot though make such a nice "museum" because
> I don't have old boards anymore... although it would have been interesting: 
> it started with a Z80 system (one system replaced shortly) in 1995, 
> then 8051 till 2000, then rabbit2000, then eZ8 (Z8encore) then a Cortex-M3 
> in 2010 till now. It seems that I keep a micro for 5 years :) (although
> I really cannot see a reason to change my actual Cortex-M3 - a LPC1756 -
> unless it will become obsolete)

Hi Raimond,

> Nice work Howerd!
Thanks!

> > I'm not a fan of that kind of lcd (especially white on blue)
I prefer it to the green-yellow on grey ;-)

> I cannot though make such a nice "museum" because
> I don't have old boards anymore...
Neither do I - we have just down-sized in moving to Lewes in the South of England - and a lot of stuff had to go. That's why I took photos...

I haven't gone over to an ARM (yet), although I could have had a second RS232 port if I had. I still mount the 89C450 (8051 variant) in a 40 pin socket for easy field replacement. 

> I really cannot see a reason to change [...]
Neither can I - except to keep up with the latest fashion trends ;-)

When the 89C450 becomes unobtainable, my dream would be to use a handful of F18 cores on a GA144 to emulate an 8051, mounted with some RAM and FLASH on a 40 pin DIP format board... Now that would be a fun project :-)

Best regards,
Howerd

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#39895

On 6/20/2015 10:49 AM, Howerd wrote:
> On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 9:17:48 PM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
>> On 6/17/2015 7:35 AM, Howerd wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in Forth?
>>>
>>> Rough Spec. :
>>> DIN Rail mounting
>>> PSU 9 to 35V DC
>>> 2 x RS232
>>> 1 x RS485
>>> 1 x CAN bus.
>>>
>>> I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various serial protocols into a data format that can be sent to a GSM modem.
>>
>> Not trying to be a smart guy, but doesn't this question equate to "Can
>> anyone recommend an industrial SBC" with the same specs?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Rick
>
> Hi Rick,
>
>>> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in Forth?
>> doesn't this question equate to "Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC"
> Yes. With the additional requirement that I can program it *easily* in Forth.
>
> There are actually two parts to this problem :
> 1. Finding a sensible industrial SBC, and
> 2. Programming it
>
> I spent some time on Google, and I was amazed at what is *not* available.
> With all the excitement over the Rapsberry Pi, Arduino and manifold MSP430/ARM evaluation boards, I only found two that came close : the one that Mark Wills posted, the VM2 (http://www.microrobotics.co.uk/vm2/appboards.html ), and my own board, the IS5d :  http://www.inventio.co.uk/Upgrading_your_hardware_-_a_case_study.html.
> Everything else seems to be either a PC or a smartphone in a metal box.
> Some even have heatsinks and fans...
>
> Unfortunately the VM2 has a maximum supply voltage of 28V, which is too low for running from a nominally 24V diesel engine battery.
> Also unfortunately, the IS5d only has one serial port (who would have thought that anyone would need more than one???).
> Maybe I can bit-bang a second serial port at 9600 baud on the IS5d's CTS and RTS pins...
>
> As for programming this : I've got code to do everything that I need, I just have to bolt it together in a new way. I'll probably add another task to the system...
>
> It seems that computer hardware, as well as software, is a division of the fashion industry, and has very little to do with either elegance or getting the job done.

I don't mean to be rude, but your post is a bit rambling.  I'm not sure 
what your point is.  Yes, it can be hard to find a CPU board for any 
given set of requirements.  Soooo....?

Your requirement that it be "easily" programmable in forth is still very 
vague.  I have no idea what that means.  Can you explain what you think 
it means?   "easily" programmable in Forth is what I would call a "user 
requirement" and needs to be translated into a "system requirement" that 
can be used to select a SBC.

I broadly classify SBCs into two categories, ones that can run Linux and 
ones that can't.  I am also looking for a SBC, one that *will* run Linux 
and has a wide temperature  range, -20 to 60 °C at least.  I'm not 
worried about the power voltage as I realize it will require a separate 
power supply.  I expect you would do better looking for a SBC that meets 
your other requirements and then buying a PSU to adapt your input 
voltage range to the voltage required by the SBC.

I want Linux because I need an Ethernet port.  I plan to use PoE (Power 
over Ethernet) as a power option for this unit.  Also, my customer wants 
Linux so he can easily program the functions.

Have you considered the temperature range of your product?  If you are 
putting it in a truck, I expect it will need an extended temperature 
range which will narrow your SBC options considerably.

-- 

Rick

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#39897

On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 6:00:44 PM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
> On 6/20/2015 10:49 AM, Howerd wrote:
> > On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 9:17:48 PM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
> >> On 6/17/2015 7:35 AM, Howerd wrote:
> >>> Hi All,
> >>>
> >>> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in Forth?
> >>>
> >>> Rough Spec. :
> >>> DIN Rail mounting
> >>> PSU 9 to 35V DC
> >>> 2 x RS232
> >>> 1 x RS485
> >>> 1 x CAN bus.
> >>>
> >>> I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various serial protocols into a data format that can be sent to a GSM modem.
> >>
> >> Not trying to be a smart guy, but doesn't this question equate to "Can
> >> anyone recommend an industrial SBC" with the same specs?
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Rick
> >
> > Hi Rick,
> >
> >>> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in Forth?
> >> doesn't this question equate to "Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC"
> > Yes. With the additional requirement that I can program it *easily* in Forth.
> >
> > There are actually two parts to this problem :
> > 1. Finding a sensible industrial SBC, and
> > 2. Programming it
> >
> > I spent some time on Google, and I was amazed at what is *not* available.
> > With all the excitement over the Rapsberry Pi, Arduino and manifold MSP430/ARM evaluation boards, I only found two that came close : the one that Mark Wills posted, the VM2 (http://www.microrobotics.co.uk/vm2/appboards.html ), and my own board, the IS5d :  http://www.inventio.co.uk/Upgrading_your_hardware_-_a_case_study.html.
> > Everything else seems to be either a PC or a smartphone in a metal box.
> > Some even have heatsinks and fans...
> >
> > Unfortunately the VM2 has a maximum supply voltage of 28V, which is too low for running from a nominally 24V diesel engine battery.
> > Also unfortunately, the IS5d only has one serial port (who would have thought that anyone would need more than one???).
> > Maybe I can bit-bang a second serial port at 9600 baud on the IS5d's CTS and RTS pins...
> >
> > As for programming this : I've got code to do everything that I need, I just have to bolt it together in a new way. I'll probably add another task to the system...
> >
> > It seems that computer hardware, as well as software, is a division of the fashion industry, and has very little to do with either elegance or getting the job done.
> 
> I don't mean to be rude, but your post is a bit rambling.  I'm not sure 
> what your point is.  Yes, it can be hard to find a CPU board for any 
> given set of requirements.  Soooo....?
> 
> Your requirement that it be "easily" programmable in forth is still very 
> vague.  I have no idea what that means.  Can you explain what you think 
> it means?   "easily" programmable in Forth is what I would call a "user 
> requirement" and needs to be translated into a "system requirement" that 
> can be used to select a SBC.
> 
> I broadly classify SBCs into two categories, ones that can run Linux and 
> ones that can't.  I am also looking for a SBC, one that *will* run Linux 
> and has a wide temperature  range, -20 to 60 °C at least.  I'm not 
> worried about the power voltage as I realize it will require a separate 
> power supply.  I expect you would do better looking for a SBC that meets 
> your other requirements and then buying a PSU to adapt your input 
> voltage range to the voltage required by the SBC.
> 
> I want Linux because I need an Ethernet port.  I plan to use PoE (Power 
> over Ethernet) as a power option for this unit.  Also, my customer wants 
> Linux so he can easily program the functions.
> 
> Have you considered the temperature range of your product?  If you are 
> putting it in a truck, I expect it will need an extended temperature 
> range which will narrow your SBC options considerably.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick

Hi Rick,

> I'm not sure what your point is.
Just general despair at the state of the world ;-)

> Yes, it can be hard to find a CPU board for any given set of requirements.  
A potential customer of mine has a problem - he wants to read the fuel level from an engine's CAN bus port and append this reading to a serial data string arriving on an RS232 port. The resulting string must then be sent to a GPRS modem connected on an RS232 port. I have already added OBDII functionality to my system, so all I have to do is access a second RS232 port.
> Soooo....?
What started out as a simple request for recommendations about an SBC has turned into a Linux development project and/or hardware development exercise.
Back in the day, when I last looked for an SBC there were probably hundreds, many of which looked like they could be used in a real application.
Today, weeding out any SBC's that can't handle 35V, that only have pin headers for IDC cables (with no locking clips), supply power through a barrel jack (yes I could hot-glue the plug in)... etc ... etc.. I seem to be left with one board - mine. Which only has one RS232 port. Doh.

I think I was also reacting to all of these dev boards that seem to be so popular these days - excellent though they may be to teach Forth on - 
I would not try to use them in a real world environment.

What has happened is that decent PCB CAD programs are now affordable - I use and recommend Proteus, for example - so that system manufacturers design their own boards, and do not market them.

So progress has meant the plethora of ARM/MSP430 based toy boards none of which would survive the first lightening strike in a rock quarry.

It looks like the old days of wiring up a board and spending an hour or two connecting ports together in software are over.

Sorry to ramble again...

Best regards,
Howerd

PS Maybe I'm turning into Victor Meldrew...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#39901

On 6/20/2015 2:13 PM, Howerd wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 6:00:44 PM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
>> On 6/20/2015 10:49 AM, Howerd wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 9:17:48 PM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
>>>> On 6/17/2015 7:35 AM, Howerd wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in
>>>>> Forth?
>>>>>
>>>>> Rough Spec. : DIN Rail mounting PSU 9 to 35V DC 2 x RS232 1 x
>>>>> RS485 1 x CAN bus.
>>>>>
>>>>> I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various serial
>>>>> protocols into a data format that can be sent to a GSM
>>>>> modem.
>>>>
>>>> Not trying to be a smart guy, but doesn't this question equate
>>>> to "Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC" with the same
>>>> specs?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>
>>> Hi Rick,
>>>
>>>>> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in
>>>>> Forth?
>>>> doesn't this question equate to "Can anyone recommend an
>>>> industrial SBC"
>>> Yes. With the additional requirement that I can program it
>>> *easily* in Forth.
>>>
>>> There are actually two parts to this problem : 1. Finding a
>>> sensible industrial SBC, and 2. Programming it
>>>
>>> I spent some time on Google, and I was amazed at what is *not*
>>> available. With all the excitement over the Rapsberry Pi, Arduino
>>> and manifold MSP430/ARM evaluation boards, I only found two that
>>> came close : the one that Mark Wills posted, the VM2
>>> (http://www.microrobotics.co.uk/vm2/appboards.html ), and my own
>>> board, the IS5d :
>>> http://www.inventio.co.uk/Upgrading_your_hardware_-_a_case_study.html.
>>>
>>>
Everything else seems to be either a PC or a smartphone in a metal box.
>>> Some even have heatsinks and fans...
>>>
>>> Unfortunately the VM2 has a maximum supply voltage of 28V, which
>>> is too low for running from a nominally 24V diesel engine
>>> battery. Also unfortunately, the IS5d only has one serial port
>>> (who would have thought that anyone would need more than
>>> one???). Maybe I can bit-bang a second serial port at 9600 baud
>>> on the IS5d's CTS and RTS pins...
>>>
>>> As for programming this : I've got code to do everything that I
>>> need, I just have to bolt it together in a new way. I'll probably
>>> add another task to the system...
>>>
>>> It seems that computer hardware, as well as software, is a
>>> division of the fashion industry, and has very little to do with
>>> either elegance or getting the job done.
>>
>> I don't mean to be rude, but your post is a bit rambling.  I'm not
>> sure what your point is.  Yes, it can be hard to find a CPU board
>> for any given set of requirements.  Soooo....?
>>
>> Your requirement that it be "easily" programmable in forth is still
>> very vague.  I have no idea what that means.  Can you explain what
>> you think it means?   "easily" programmable in Forth is what I
>> would call a "user requirement" and needs to be translated into a
>> "system requirement" that can be used to select a SBC.
>>
>> I broadly classify SBCs into two categories, ones that can run
>> Linux and ones that can't.  I am also looking for a SBC, one that
>> *will* run Linux and has a wide temperature  range, -20 to 60 °C at
>> least.  I'm not worried about the power voltage as I realize it
>> will require a separate power supply.  I expect you would do better
>> looking for a SBC that meets your other requirements and then
>> buying a PSU to adapt your input voltage range to the voltage
>> required by the SBC.
>>
>> I want Linux because I need an Ethernet port.  I plan to use PoE
>> (Power over Ethernet) as a power option for this unit.  Also, my
>> customer wants Linux so he can easily program the functions.
>>
>> Have you considered the temperature range of your product?  If you
>> are putting it in a truck, I expect it will need an extended
>> temperature range which will narrow your SBC options considerably.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Rick
>
> Hi Rick,
>
>> I'm not sure what your point is.
> Just general despair at the state of the world ;-)
>
>> Yes, it can be hard to find a CPU board for any given set of
>> requirements.
> A potential customer of mine has a problem - he wants to read the
> fuel level from an engine's CAN bus port and append this reading to a
> serial data string arriving on an RS232 port. The resulting string
> must then be sent to a GPRS modem connected on an RS232 port. I have
> already added OBDII functionality to my system, so all I have to do
> is access a second RS232 port.
>> Soooo....?
> What started out as a simple request for recommendations about an SBC
> has turned into a Linux development project and/or hardware
> development exercise. Back in the day, when I last looked for an SBC
> there were probably hundreds, many of which looked like they could be
> used in a real application. Today, weeding out any SBC's that can't
> handle 35V, that only have pin headers for IDC cables (with no
> locking clips), supply power through a barrel jack (yes I could
> hot-glue the plug in)... etc ... etc.. I seem to be left with one
> board - mine. Which only has one RS232 port. Doh.
>
> I think I was also reacting to all of these dev boards that seem to
> be so popular these days - excellent though they may be to teach
> Forth on - I would not try to use them in a real world environment.
>
> What has happened is that decent PCB CAD programs are now affordable
> - I use and recommend Proteus, for example - so that system
> manufacturers design their own boards, and do not market them.
>
> So progress has meant the plethora of ARM/MSP430 based toy boards
> none of which would survive the first lightening strike in a rock
> quarry.
>
> It looks like the old days of wiring up a board and spending an hour
> or two connecting ports together in software are over.
>
> Sorry to ramble again...
>
> Best regards, Howerd
>
> PS Maybe I'm turning into Victor Meldrew...

I really don't get what you are complaining about.  I think it is the
lack of support for 35 volt power on an MCU board.  Otherwise there are
plenty to choose from.  It would be idiot simple to make a converter
board to provide the voltages needed from the voltage you have.  I see
no need for rolling a CPU board just for that.  Is it impossible to fit
a DC/DC converter board in your current chassis?  It should be very easy 
to find a way to add a second serial port to your existing design as 
well, no?

I think you are simply finding that the majority of computers are used 
in benign environments these days.

I can't make any other suggestions as you didn't answer my questions.

-- 

Rick

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#39911

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> I am also looking for a SBC, one that *will* run Linux and has a wide
> temperature range, -20 to 60 °C at least.

There are certainly plenty of those: typing "industrial linux sbc" into
a search engine finds tons.  As mentioned I was involved in something
that used Glomation boards (glomation.com) and those worked fine, though
we didn't care about extended temperature ranges for what we were doing.

Olinuxino claims -25C to 85C.  They are completely FOSS and I've been
interested in their stuff for a while, but haven't used it:
  https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/open-source-hardware

If you want something semi-customized, Gumstix (small Linux board vendor
that's been around forever) has "geppetto" (geppetto.gumstix.com), where
you pick the modules you want on the board with a drag and drop web gui,
and they spin the board for you in 3 weeks with a $2K one-time setup
fee.  The components you pick determines the temperature range and you
might have to ask them about specifics.  This seems pretty cool to me.

I see eurotech.com has some boards claiming -40C to 85C but I don't know
anything about them.

Systelusa.com has some ruggedized (high vibration), extended temperature
stuff.  It looks expensive.

It looks like linuxgizmos.com is the successor site to linuxdevices.com
which seems to have dried up.  There's all kinds of stuff there.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#39912

Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> writes:
>   https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/open-source-hardware

I should mention: if you order directly from Olimex, the shipping costs
to the US are ridiculous, but Digikey has some of their boards in stock.

I really like what I've seen about their stuff.  I just haven't had
occasion to use any myself yet.  I like their blog too,
olimex.wordpress.com .

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#39989

On 6/20/2015 11:25 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>> I am also looking for a SBC, one that *will* run Linux and has a wide
>> temperature range, -20 to 60 °C at least.
>
> There are certainly plenty of those: typing "industrial linux sbc" into
> a search engine finds tons.  As mentioned I was involved in something
> that used Glomation boards (glomation.com) and those worked fine, though
> we didn't care about extended temperature ranges for what we were doing.
>
> Olinuxino claims -25C to 85C.  They are completely FOSS and I've been
> interested in their stuff for a while, but haven't used it:
>    https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/open-source-hardware
>
> If you want something semi-customized, Gumstix (small Linux board vendor
> that's been around forever) has "geppetto" (geppetto.gumstix.com), where
> you pick the modules you want on the board with a drag and drop web gui,
> and they spin the board for you in 3 weeks with a $2K one-time setup
> fee.  The components you pick determines the temperature range and you
> might have to ask them about specifics.  This seems pretty cool to me.
>
> I see eurotech.com has some boards claiming -40C to 85C but I don't know
> anything about them.
>
> Systelusa.com has some ruggedized (high vibration), extended temperature
> stuff.  It looks expensive.
>
> It looks like linuxgizmos.com is the successor site to linuxdevices.com
> which seems to have dried up.  There's all kinds of stuff there.

Thanks for the info.  I appreciate that.

I make a post to the Beagle group and it seems they are currently coming 
out with a version that is rated for industrial temps with the intent of 
supporting commercial use.  It won't share the "Beagle" moniker, but 
will be the same board with a few added tweaks.  Initially it will have 
the same 10/100 Mbps Ethernet, but will be adding 1 G Ethernet soon.  I 
don't recall any other specs, but they will populate the board per your 
order with an MOQ of 500.  A standard version will be available through 
distribution such as Digikey.  Just because of the level of group 
support I will likely go with that, but I haven't seen a price yet. lol 
  He did offer to get me a couple of board from his initial run.

-- 

Rick

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#39993

marți, 23 iunie 2015, 16:40:46 UTC+3, rickman a scris:
> On 6/20/2015 11:25 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> > rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> >> I am also looking for a SBC, one that *will* run Linux and has a wide
> >> temperature range, -20 to 60 °C at least.
> >
> > There are certainly plenty of those: typing "industrial linux sbc" into
> > a search engine finds tons.  As mentioned I was involved in something
> > that used Glomation boards (glomation.com) and those worked fine, though
> > we didn't care about extended temperature ranges for what we were doing.
> >
> > Olinuxino claims -25C to 85C.  They are completely FOSS and I've been
> > interested in their stuff for a while, but haven't used it:
> >    https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/open-source-hardware
> >
> > If you want something semi-customized, Gumstix (small Linux board vendor
> > that's been around forever) has "geppetto" (geppetto.gumstix.com), where
> > you pick the modules you want on the board with a drag and drop web gui,
> > and they spin the board for you in 3 weeks with a $2K one-time setup
> > fee.  The components you pick determines the temperature range and you
> > might have to ask them about specifics.  This seems pretty cool to me.
> >
> > I see eurotech.com has some boards claiming -40C to 85C but I don't know
> > anything about them.
> >
> > Systelusa.com has some ruggedized (high vibration), extended temperature
> > stuff.  It looks expensive.
> >
> > It looks like linuxgizmos.com is the successor site to linuxdevices.com
> > which seems to have dried up.  There's all kinds of stuff there.
> 
> Thanks for the info.  I appreciate that.
> 
> I make a post to the Beagle group and it seems they are currently coming 
> out with a version that is rated for industrial temps with the intent of 
> supporting commercial use.  It won't share the "Beagle" moniker, but 
> will be the same board with a few added tweaks.  Initially it will have 
> the same 10/100 Mbps Ethernet, but will be adding 1 G Ethernet soon.  I 
> don't recall any other specs, but they will populate the board per your 
> order with an MOQ of 500.  A standard version will be available through 
> distribution such as Digikey.  Just because of the level of group 
> support I will likely go with that, but I haven't seen a price yet. lol 
>   He did offer to get me a couple of board from his initial run.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Rick

Interesting. I lived with the impression that my BBB is industrial temps...
Are you (they) talking about the beagle "bone" or the beagle "board" ?

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#39998

On 6/23/2015 11:29 AM, Raimond Dragomir wrote:
> marți, 23 iunie 2015, 16:40:46 UTC+3, rickman a scris:
>> On 6/20/2015 11:25 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
>>> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> I am also looking for a SBC, one that *will* run Linux and has a wide
>>>> temperature range, -20 to 60 °C at least.
>>>
>>> There are certainly plenty of those: typing "industrial linux sbc" into
>>> a search engine finds tons.  As mentioned I was involved in something
>>> that used Glomation boards (glomation.com) and those worked fine, though
>>> we didn't care about extended temperature ranges for what we were doing.
>>>
>>> Olinuxino claims -25C to 85C.  They are completely FOSS and I've been
>>> interested in their stuff for a while, but haven't used it:
>>>     https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/open-source-hardware
>>>
>>> If you want something semi-customized, Gumstix (small Linux board vendor
>>> that's been around forever) has "geppetto" (geppetto.gumstix.com), where
>>> you pick the modules you want on the board with a drag and drop web gui,
>>> and they spin the board for you in 3 weeks with a $2K one-time setup
>>> fee.  The components you pick determines the temperature range and you
>>> might have to ask them about specifics.  This seems pretty cool to me.
>>>
>>> I see eurotech.com has some boards claiming -40C to 85C but I don't know
>>> anything about them.
>>>
>>> Systelusa.com has some ruggedized (high vibration), extended temperature
>>> stuff.  It looks expensive.
>>>
>>> It looks like linuxgizmos.com is the successor site to linuxdevices.com
>>> which seems to have dried up.  There's all kinds of stuff there.
>>
>> Thanks for the info.  I appreciate that.
>>
>> I make a post to the Beagle group and it seems they are currently coming
>> out with a version that is rated for industrial temps with the intent of
>> supporting commercial use.  It won't share the "Beagle" moniker, but
>> will be the same board with a few added tweaks.  Initially it will have
>> the same 10/100 Mbps Ethernet, but will be adding 1 G Ethernet soon.  I
>> don't recall any other specs, but they will populate the board per your
>> order with an MOQ of 500.  A standard version will be available through
>> distribution such as Digikey.  Just because of the level of group
>> support I will likely go with that, but I haven't seen a price yet. lol
>>    He did offer to get me a couple of board from his initial run.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Rick
>
> Interesting. I lived with the impression that my BBB is industrial temps...
> Are you (they) talking about the beagle "bone" or the beagle "board" ?

The Beagle Bone Black.  I searched the support group and found a couple 
of times when an industrial temp range was asked about and the response 
was always "build your own".  But the last one was a couple of years ago 
so I asked again and the answer was, email me directly.  So I did.  I 
don't think he is trying to keep this under wraps, but I think he is 
just trying to keep the noise level down.

It will be sold under a different brand.  I think TI doesn't want the 
"Beagle" sold specifically for commercial use, likely because they are 
subsidizing the Beagles in some way and other customers won't appreciate 
it.  But this board will be made by and sold by a separate company with 
no advantages over anyone else.  In fact he indicated there may be some 
small cost hits because of the initially lower volumes.  Heck, I'm just 
glad he is talking to me.  More than I get from any display maker. 
(although Pervasive is talking to me, just not interested in what I need 
when push comes to shove).

I am looking to run Linux and gforth on this when I get it.  I hope I'm 
not the first person to run gforth on the bone.

-- 

Rick

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#40002

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
> The Beagle Bone Black.  I searched the support group and found a
> couple of times when an industrial temp range was asked ..
> Heck, I'm just glad he is talking to me.

That sounds like the Bluesteel board:

http://linuxgizmos.com/beaglebone-sbc-goes-oem-com-version-coming/

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