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Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations?

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On 6/20/2015 2:13 PM, Howerd wrote:
> On Saturday, June 20, 2015 at 6:00:44 PM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
>> On 6/20/2015 10:49 AM, Howerd wrote:
>>> On Thursday, June 18, 2015 at 9:17:48 PM UTC+1, rickman wrote:
>>>> On 6/17/2015 7:35 AM, Howerd wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in
>>>>> Forth?
>>>>>
>>>>> Rough Spec. : DIN Rail mounting PSU 9 to 35V DC 2 x RS232 1 x
>>>>> RS485 1 x CAN bus.
>>>>>
>>>>> I need 10 of these to convert CAN and various serial
>>>>> protocols into a data format that can be sent to a GSM
>>>>> modem.
>>>>
>>>> Not trying to be a smart guy, but doesn't this question equate
>>>> to "Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC" with the same
>>>> specs?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>
>>> Hi Rick,
>>>
>>>>> Can anyone recommend an industrial SBC that I can program in
>>>>> Forth?
>>>> doesn't this question equate to "Can anyone recommend an
>>>> industrial SBC"
>>> Yes. With the additional requirement that I can program it
>>> *easily* in Forth.
>>>
>>> There are actually two parts to this problem : 1. Finding a
>>> sensible industrial SBC, and 2. Programming it
>>>
>>> I spent some time on Google, and I was amazed at what is *not*
>>> available. With all the excitement over the Rapsberry Pi, Arduino
>>> and manifold MSP430/ARM evaluation boards, I only found two that
>>> came close : the one that Mark Wills posted, the VM2
>>> (http://www.microrobotics.co.uk/vm2/appboards.html ), and my own
>>> board, the IS5d :
>>> http://www.inventio.co.uk/Upgrading_your_hardware_-_a_case_study.html.
>>>
>>>
Everything else seems to be either a PC or a smartphone in a metal box.
>>> Some even have heatsinks and fans...
>>>
>>> Unfortunately the VM2 has a maximum supply voltage of 28V, which
>>> is too low for running from a nominally 24V diesel engine
>>> battery. Also unfortunately, the IS5d only has one serial port
>>> (who would have thought that anyone would need more than
>>> one???). Maybe I can bit-bang a second serial port at 9600 baud
>>> on the IS5d's CTS and RTS pins...
>>>
>>> As for programming this : I've got code to do everything that I
>>> need, I just have to bolt it together in a new way. I'll probably
>>> add another task to the system...
>>>
>>> It seems that computer hardware, as well as software, is a
>>> division of the fashion industry, and has very little to do with
>>> either elegance or getting the job done.
>>
>> I don't mean to be rude, but your post is a bit rambling.  I'm not
>> sure what your point is.  Yes, it can be hard to find a CPU board
>> for any given set of requirements.  Soooo....?
>>
>> Your requirement that it be "easily" programmable in forth is still
>> very vague.  I have no idea what that means.  Can you explain what
>> you think it means?   "easily" programmable in Forth is what I
>> would call a "user requirement" and needs to be translated into a
>> "system requirement" that can be used to select a SBC.
>>
>> I broadly classify SBCs into two categories, ones that can run
>> Linux and ones that can't.  I am also looking for a SBC, one that
>> *will* run Linux and has a wide temperature  range, -20 to 60 °C at
>> least.  I'm not worried about the power voltage as I realize it
>> will require a separate power supply.  I expect you would do better
>> looking for a SBC that meets your other requirements and then
>> buying a PSU to adapt your input voltage range to the voltage
>> required by the SBC.
>>
>> I want Linux because I need an Ethernet port.  I plan to use PoE
>> (Power over Ethernet) as a power option for this unit.  Also, my
>> customer wants Linux so he can easily program the functions.
>>
>> Have you considered the temperature range of your product?  If you
>> are putting it in a truck, I expect it will need an extended
>> temperature range which will narrow your SBC options considerably.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Rick
>
> Hi Rick,
>
>> I'm not sure what your point is.
> Just general despair at the state of the world ;-)
>
>> Yes, it can be hard to find a CPU board for any given set of
>> requirements.
> A potential customer of mine has a problem - he wants to read the
> fuel level from an engine's CAN bus port and append this reading to a
> serial data string arriving on an RS232 port. The resulting string
> must then be sent to a GPRS modem connected on an RS232 port. I have
> already added OBDII functionality to my system, so all I have to do
> is access a second RS232 port.
>> Soooo....?
> What started out as a simple request for recommendations about an SBC
> has turned into a Linux development project and/or hardware
> development exercise. Back in the day, when I last looked for an SBC
> there were probably hundreds, many of which looked like they could be
> used in a real application. Today, weeding out any SBC's that can't
> handle 35V, that only have pin headers for IDC cables (with no
> locking clips), supply power through a barrel jack (yes I could
> hot-glue the plug in)... etc ... etc.. I seem to be left with one
> board - mine. Which only has one RS232 port. Doh.
>
> I think I was also reacting to all of these dev boards that seem to
> be so popular these days - excellent though they may be to teach
> Forth on - I would not try to use them in a real world environment.
>
> What has happened is that decent PCB CAD programs are now affordable
> - I use and recommend Proteus, for example - so that system
> manufacturers design their own boards, and do not market them.
>
> So progress has meant the plethora of ARM/MSP430 based toy boards
> none of which would survive the first lightening strike in a rock
> quarry.
>
> It looks like the old days of wiring up a board and spending an hour
> or two connecting ports together in software are over.
>
> Sorry to ramble again...
>
> Best regards, Howerd
>
> PS Maybe I'm turning into Victor Meldrew...

I really don't get what you are complaining about.  I think it is the
lack of support for 35 volt power on an MCU board.  Otherwise there are
plenty to choose from.  It would be idiot simple to make a converter
board to provide the voltages needed from the voltage you have.  I see
no need for rolling a CPU board just for that.  Is it impossible to fit
a DC/DC converter board in your current chassis?  It should be very easy 
to find a way to add a second serial port to your existing design as 
well, no?

I think you are simply finding that the majority of computers are used 
in benign environments these days.

I can't make any other suggestions as you didn't answer my questions.

-- 

Rick

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Thread

Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-17 04:35 -0700
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 05:21 -0700
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 08:57 -0700
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-17 10:58 -0700
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-06-17 22:39 +0100
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 23:10 -0700
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 16:24 -0400
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 16:17 -0400
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 07:49 -0700
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 09:36 -0700
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 13:40 -0700
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 13:00 -0400
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 11:13 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 15:04 -0400
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 20:25 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 20:34 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:40 -0400
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 08:29 -0700
              Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 13:40 -0400
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-23 13:42 -0700
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 07:11 -0700
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 11:15 -0400
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 10:16 -0700
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 17:54 -0400
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-24 15:01 -0700
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 18:38 -0400
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-24 16:37 -0700
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 21:01 -0400
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-26 12:58 -0700
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 12:24 -0700
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 14:03 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 15:03 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-21 01:33 -0700
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:47 -0400
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? darek.maksimiuk@gmail.com - 2015-06-30 13:52 -0700
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-07-01 10:45 -0700
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-07-01 15:01 -0700
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-07-01 18:14 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 00:49 -0700
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-07-02 03:02 -0700

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