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[PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project

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  [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 12:52 -0700
    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-02 01:37 +0200
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in pro all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) - 2014-10-01 20:11 -0400
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 20:26 -0400
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 18:46 -0700
          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 18:57 -0700
            Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 19:05 -0700
              Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 19:49 -0700
                Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 20:03 -0700
                  Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 20:15 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 20:33 -0700
                      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 20:59 -0700
                        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 21:11 -0700
                          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 21:23 -0700
                          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 00:41 -0400
                            Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 22:22 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-02 12:20 +0000
                      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-02 16:20 +0200
                        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 08:00 -0700
                          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-10-03 12:16 -0700
                      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:02 +0200
                  Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 15:13 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:39 +0200
                      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 19:11 -0400
                        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 01:32 +0200
                          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 16:43 -0700
                            Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 01:51 +0200
                              Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 17:25 -0700
                                Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 02:38 +0200
                                  Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 21:25 -0400
                      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 16:42 -0700
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-01 22:02 -1000
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 03:18 -0700
          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:57 +0200
            Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 22:44 -0700
              Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-02 21:42 -1000
                Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-03 16:17 -0700
                  Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-03 23:28 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-10-04 11:25 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-04 16:44 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-04 18:40 -0700
                  Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-04 17:30 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2014-10-04 19:07 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-04 21:22 -0700
                    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-10-05 02:05 -0700
              Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 10:12 +0200
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:02 +0200
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2014-10-03 15:44 -0700
    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 02:45 -0700
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 05:11 -0700
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 05:14 -0700
    Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-10-02 08:56 -0400
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 06:19 -0700
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-10-02 13:30 +0000
          Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 08:36 -0700
      Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 10:49 -0700
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-02 08:24 -1000
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-10-02 16:03 -0400
        Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:18 +0200

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#33697

> P.S. Roger, I may have in some near future an embedded project based on a "big" system, like raspi, beaglebone, or the like. It will be almost for sure based on some linux kernel (mainly because on these kind of boards you really don't have any other chance to make the hardware drivers working), but the entire developing framework, including the graphics, is uncertain.
> 
> If this project will come to the table, I may contact you. It's not about the games, it will be industrial. But it will certainly have good graphics requirements.

I'm definitely interested.  Let's keep in touch. 

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#33696

@Hugh I've gotten 5 or 6 applicants.  I've already found my guy.

@Dirk, I remember reading about this, perhaps years ago.  Rest assured, I have no interest in making another Forth GTK.  Is that all Bernd worked on?  Did he make any end-user applications?

@Pablo, I got an applicant from Brazil :)  He wasn't very qualified sadly.  Mike, the guy who I made The Lady for, hired a Brazilian guy to do the animation.  As a credit to Brazilians, he was really good at animating.

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#33698

Good Luck Roger!!

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#33700

On Saturday, October 4, 2014 5:30:06 PM UTC-7, Roger Levy wrote:
> @Hugh I've gotten 5 or 6 applicants.  I've already found my guy.

Good luck Roger!

Use the novice package --- it will help --- and it doesn't cost anything.

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#33704

That's great news. Best of luck! 

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#33675

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 22:44:48 -0700 (PDT)
Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> wrote:

> vineri, 3 octombrie 2014, 01:57:41 UTC+3, Melzzzzz a scris:
> > On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 03:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
> > 
> > Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > > Skilled Forth programmers have been earning triple digit $/hour
> > > > for
> > 
> > > > 15 
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > This is just ridiculous.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > It's not. Here in Serbia where average wage is 300 euros, entry
> > 
> > level JavaScript/PHP programmers get around 1000 euros per month
> > 
> > (full time employee), 60% more if they work on contract.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Manjaro all the way!
> > 
> > http://manjaro.org/
> 
> Maybe you didn't understand. I was refering to triple digit $/hour.
> With the "minimum" triple digit of $100/hr that's 16000 (16 thousand)
> per month!

10k per month is not so unusual . I know one young programmer from
Serbia that moved to USA and got 10k. I can imagine seasoned USA
programmers can get 16k. 200$ per hour was not so unusual in late 90's
early 2000's. Don't know what's situation now.

-- 
Manjaro all the way!
http://manjaro.org/

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#33653

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 01:37:49 +0200
Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote:

> Roger Levy wrote:
> 
> > This is a part time gig (~60-80 hours/mo).  $1000/mo, 6-12 month
> > contract. Negotiable.  Potential for more, and/or profit-share if
> > involved in games or StudioUI-based standalone applications later
> > on.
> 
> Hm, I get between $12.5 and $16.6 per hour out of your offer; what
> are you looking for?  This is barely above minimum wage.
> 

You could do the same by selling hamburgers, I guess...

-- 
Manjaro all the way!
http://manjaro.org/

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#33683

Here is a lot of money,

outsoursing is make many people rich in my country.

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#33634

On Wednesday, 1 October 2014 20:52:13 UTC+1, Roger Levy  wrote:
> I am looking for someone to help me kick StudioUI into high gear.  StudioUI is a new development environment for SwiftForth that adds a visual dimension to Forth by enabling the user to quickly create his own custom GUI's to aid in application development as well as serve as the GUI engine for applications themselves.  I will be using it to develop games and game development tools.
> 
> 
> 
> The program is starting to take shape but it's becoming apparent that it is too much for me alone.
> 
> 
> 
> I have some preliminary documentation on StudioUI on the Trello board.  (https://trello.com/b/7GYI7XaG/studioui-3)
> 
> 
> 
> This is a part time gig (~60-80 hours/mo).  $1000/mo, 6-12 month contract.  Negotiable.  Potential for more, and/or profit-share if involved in games or StudioUI-based standalone applications later on.
> 
> 
> 
> You must:
> 
> 
> 
> * Have Windows 7+ or be willing to work prior to employment to get my stuff to run on previous Window versions
> 
> * Have a PC with OpenGL 2.0+ compliant video card
> 
> * Be willing and able to adopt my coding conventions
> 
> * Be willing and able to learn ForestLib (https://bitbucket.org/rogerlevy/forestlib) and Allegro 5 (http://alleg.sourceforge.net/a5docs/refman/index.html)
> 
> * Be familiar with Mercurial (use of TortoiseHg will be preferred)
> 
> * Be able to analyze and find obscure bugs as well as untangle tough program design problems.
> 
> 
> 
> Big plus if you have SwiftX/SwiftForth/Linux and C++ compiler knowledge and could potentially get my stuff + Allegro 5 to run on Raspberry Pi. (More money will be involved if so.)
> 
> 
> 
> If interested, send an email to roger.levy@gmail.com with "SwiftForth Assistant" in the subject.

Alas, I don't have any knowledge of Swift Forth, or the low-level stuff that would be required for hooking into the Windows OS for a GUI type library. If it were different I'd be all over this! I wish you the very best of luck with this.

Mark

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#33637

> Alas, I don't have any knowledge of Swift Forth, or the low-level stuff that would be required for hooking into the Windows OS for a GUI type library. If it were different I'd be all over this! I wish you the very best of luck with this.

No knowledge of SwiftForth is actually required, and the Windows OS is not used to provide the GUI - it's a new OpenGL-based GUI system from the ground up.

If you can program in Forth well, email me evidence.  The stuff you don't know is just a matter of getting you up to speed.  If you're good that shouldn't take much time at all.

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#33638

> No knowledge of SwiftForth is actually required, and the Windows OS is not used to provide the GUI - it's a new OpenGL-based GUI system from the ground up.
> 
> 
> 
> If you can program in Forth well, email me evidence.  The stuff you don't know is just a matter of getting you up to speed.  If you're good that shouldn't take much time at all.

Even if you DON'T program well in Forth, but do in other languages, show me evidence of that.  Like I said in an earlier post I'm open to this being a paid learning opportunity.  I don't consider Forth to be too hard for that prospect not to be worthwhile.

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#33641

On Wed, 01 Oct 2014 15:52:12 -0400, Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com>  
wrote:

> [snip]
>
> This is a part time gig (~60-80 hours/mo).  $1000/mo, 6-12 month  
> contract.  Negotiable.  Potential for more, and/or profit-share if  
> involved in games or StudioUI-based standalone applications later on.
>
> You must:
>
> * Have Windows 7+ or be willing to work prior to employment to get my  
> stuff to run on previous Window versions
> * Have a PC with OpenGL 2.0+ compliant video card
> * Be willing and able to adopt my coding conventions
> * Be willing and able to learn ForestLib    and Allegro 5 * Be familiar  
> with Mercurial (use of TortoiseHg will be preferred)
> * Be able to analyze and find obscure bugs as well as untangle tough  
> program design problems.
>
> Big plus if you have SwiftX/SwiftForth/Linux and C++ compiler knowledge  
> and could potentially get my stuff + Allegro 5 to run on Raspberry Pi.  
> (More money will be involved if so.)
>
> If interested, send an email to roger.levy@gmail.com with "SwiftForth  
> Assistant" in the subject.

Skilled, yes.  Forth, no.  Well, I guess that excludes me.

Hugh? ...

I'm sure most in the group appreciate you posting a genuine,
and serious job offer for Forth Programmers.  So, I'll post
a general, from the group, thank you.


That said, I think you're well aware that your job offer has
some issues which will prevent it from attracting the skilled
Forth programmer you desire, with emphasis on skilled.

0) A skilled Forth programmer doesn't need additional skill,
and is unlikely to take a job like this for the thrill or joy.

1) The job's pay is well below most markets in the U.S.  I.e.,
it's entry-level pay for a skilled job.

2) The job is part time and limited term.  So, it won't lead
to a long-term, full time job with better pay.

3) The job is part time and limited term.  So, it's unlikely
to attract a skilled Forth programmer, unless they're currently
out-of-work or retired.


The median pay in the U.S., is $75K for computer programmers
and $93K for software developers, about $36.5/hour and
$46.5/hour, respectively.  (U.S. BLS data.)  Median is the
person in the middle of the pay scale.

The per state median varies somewhat depending on the state,
being lower in less-expensive states and states with minimal
programming industry, i.e., rural, less developed, etc.

Expensive states such as California and New York have higher
median pay for computer programmers, $89K for California and
$84K for New York, software developers, $112K for CA and
$103K for NY.  (U.S. BLS data.)

These BLS links have quick financial summaries for each
programming job occupation with maps showing where
programmers and software developers are employed.  I.e.,
you may want to move if you're serious about a job.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151131.htm
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151132.htm
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151133.htm
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151134.htm

The top-level page for all occupations.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_stru.htm

This link allows to you find per state pay,
as I did for NY and CA data above:
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcst.htm

I.e., click the state in the map, then select "15-0000"
for "Computer and Mathematics Occupations", then search
the list for that state for "computer programmer" or
"software developer" or "web developer" or "database
administrator" etc.  Note that there are multiple
listings, specialties, for some jobs, such as
"software developer".

HTH someone, ...


Rod Pemberton

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#33642

Noted.  I know the rate is a long shot, but it's the best I can do at the moment.  

I didn't make it explicit, but note that I didn't actually say "skilled Forth programmer" in the ad.  Just Skilled Programmer.  "Skilled programmer" to me means a programmer that has a solid understanding of programming in general and is flexible enough to pick up Forth quickly or beef up their existing Forth skills.  Whoever might do it for that rate, I wanted to hear from them.  I never intended for the ad to attract well-paid long time engineers.  They probably wouldn't be able to wrap their heads around what I'm doing anyway.

When you want to do what you want, there is not always someone around to pay market rate.  I'm considering avenues for getting the word out so that I might be able to get some funding to attract better coders.  Any suggestions on that front would be most welcome.

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#33643

Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> writes:
>Noted.  I know the rate is a long shot, but it's the best I can do at the m=
>oment. =20
>
>I didn't make it explicit, but note that I didn't actually say "skilled For=
>th programmer" in the ad.

The Subject is: "[PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer [...]"
                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>I never intended for the ad to attract well-paid long time enginee=
>rs.  They probably wouldn't be able to wrap their heads around what I'm doi=
>ng anyway.

Somebody was asking what "sour grapes" is.  This is a very apt
example.

- anton
-- 
M. Anton Ertl  http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
     New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
   EuroForth 2014: http://www.euroforth.org/ef14/

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#33647

> The Subject is: "[PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer [...]"
> 
>                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Woops.  I was on 5 hours of sleep when I posted that reply, just got up from a nap :P  I did mean it though, the level of skill in Forth is not as important as overall skill.

> 
> >I never intended for the ad to attract well-paid long time enginee=
> 
> >rs.  They probably wouldn't be able to wrap their heads around what I'm doi=
> 
> >ng anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody was asking what "sour grapes" is.  This is a very apt
> 
> example.
> 

Someone like Bernd seems like he could handle anything, but I still have my doubts.  Sometimes it takes a blank slate.

I've described the project, linked to the Trello board with more info, and discussed game development topics several times here and not heard so much as a peep of comprehension.  Most of what I've gotten back is "I don't know anything about ___", replace ___ with developing games or GUI's.  I don't blame people because it's a lot easier to see something than to read about it but we're not there yet.

Some people aren't exactly mental sponges well before they could be considered elderly.  You need thorough documentation, clear instruction, etc to reach all but the gifted, or, you sit down with someone you've paid to get a lot of their time and guide them through everything.  Try that with an elderly gentleman who keeps interrupting you to question what you're telling them ("why not just use ___" etc or "how is that different from "___") or to say that they don't understand and it turns out half of what you said fell out because it was too new.  I've been in this situation.  But, perhaps there's a genius retiree out there who might be able to lend a month or 2 for a token.  Even that would be immensely helpful.

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#33648

> The median pay in the U.S., is $75K for computer programmers
> 
> and $93K for software developers, about $36.5/hour and

I'm just curious, what's the difference between a computer programmer and a software developer? 
And a Forth programmer is what ? computer programmer or software developer?
Or something different ? :D

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#33649

On 10/2/14 7:49 AM, Raimond Dragomir wrote:
>> The median pay in the U.S., is $75K for computer programmers
>>
>> and $93K for software developers, about $36.5/hour and
>
> I'm just curious, what's the difference between a computer programmer and a software developer?
> And a Forth programmer is what ? computer programmer or software developer?
> Or something different ? :D
>

I suspect the difference is that a "software developer" has a higher 
level of design responsibility and more engineering background, whereas 
a "computer programmer" is writing code to fairly low-level, explicit 
specifications. Forth is used at all levels. The top Forth programmers I 
know have very strong design and engineering backgrounds in addition to 
programming skills. Since we are often involved in projects involving 
newly developed or custom electronics, this is essential for sorting out 
"hardware vs. software" issues.

Cheers,
Elizabeth

-- 
==================================================
Elizabeth D. Rather   (US & Canada)   800-55-FORTH
FORTH Inc.                         +1 310.999.6784
5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700
Los Angeles, CA 90045
http://www.forth.com

"Forth-based products and Services for real-time
applications since 1973."
==================================================

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#33651

On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 13:49:37 -0400, Raimond Dragomir  
<raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> wrote:

>> The median pay in the U.S., is $75K for computer programmers
>>
>> and $93K for software developers, about $36.5/hour and
>
> I'm just curious, what's the difference between a computer programmer  
> and a software developer?

Money.  ;-)

The main difference usually is the software developer gets to design
the application.  I.e., they're developing or creating new software.
They may also get some management responsibilities such as planning
and scheduling the stages of development and maybe even get to direct
a team of others who are working to implement that application.  They
typically have more independence and can be creative in their solutions.

A computer programmer usually is assigned programming tasks to complete
 from an IT manager who manages a department of programmers.  So, they
typically only get to work on or maintain an existing application, or
code small programs, like for finance reports.  They are typically held
to time deadlines and are monitored and supervised by their manager.

Of course, the exact needs or definitions vary by industry and business,
and even regions of the U.S.  That's why they're always somewhat vague.

The BLS descriptions at the links mentions some other things that might
be assigned to a software developer, depending on industry of employment.

> And a Forth programmer is what ? computer programmer or software  
> developer? Or something different ? :D

He (or she) could be either.


Rod Pemberton

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#33655

On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 10:49:37 -0700 (PDT)
Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> wrote:

> > The median pay in the U.S., is $75K for computer programmers
> > 
> > and $93K for software developers, about $36.5/hour and
> 
> I'm just curious, what's the difference between a computer programmer
> and a software developer?

I guess that he meant software engineer vs ordinary programmer...



-- 
Manjaro all the way!
http://manjaro.org/

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