Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.lang.forth > #33608 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2014-10-01 12:52 -0700 |
| Last post | 2014-10-03 00:18 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 59 — 17 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.lang.forth
[PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 12:52 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-02 01:37 +0200
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in pro all2001@spambog.com (Wolfgang Allinger) - 2014-10-01 20:11 -0400
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 20:26 -0400
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 18:46 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 18:57 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 19:05 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 19:49 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 20:03 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 20:15 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 20:33 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 20:59 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 21:11 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-10-01 21:23 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 00:41 -0400
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-01 22:22 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-10-02 12:20 +0000
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-10-02 16:20 +0200
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 08:00 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-10-03 12:16 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:02 +0200
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 15:13 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:39 +0200
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 19:11 -0400
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 01:32 +0200
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 16:43 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 01:51 +0200
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 17:25 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 02:38 +0200
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 21:25 -0400
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-02 16:42 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-01 22:02 -1000
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 03:18 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:57 +0200
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 22:44 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-02 21:42 -1000
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-03 16:17 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-03 23:28 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2014-10-04 11:25 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-04 16:44 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-04 18:40 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-04 17:30 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2014-10-04 19:07 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2014-10-04 21:22 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-10-05 02:05 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 10:12 +0200
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:02 +0200
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2014-10-03 15:44 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 02:45 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 05:11 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 05:14 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-10-02 08:56 -0400
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 06:19 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-10-02 13:30 +0000
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 08:36 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2014-10-02 10:49 -0700
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-10-02 08:24 -1000
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project "Rod Pemberton" <buzzoff@nonamewhichexists.cmm> - 2014-10-02 16:03 -0400
Re: [PAID WORK] Looking for skilled Forth prograammer to assist in project Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-10-03 00:18 +0200
Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 Next page →
| From | Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-03 00:02 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <20141003000211.46e39fd7@maxa-pc> |
| In reply to | #33639 |
On 02 Oct 2014 12:20:26 GMT albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) wrote: > In article <7xwq8jduvt.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com>, > Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote: > >Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> writes: > >>> think it came from? You're using gmail; what software do you > >>> think is running on the Google servers, other than the gmail > >>> application itself? > >> Uh, Micro$oft??? > > > >I don't think the Google servers are running Micro$oft--in fact I > >know they are running GNU/Linux. Maybe you yourself are running > >Windows for good reasons or bad, but most computers don't use it any > >more. There are now more deployed Linux systems (think of all those > >Android phones) than Windows systems. > > > >> I accepted $2000 from a big vendor to spend a few weeks FT on some > >> graphics code. It was fun and I got paid for it. > > > >A few weeks is different from a full year. > > > >> How many Forth job offers are there on CLF? 2 including mine. > > > >I can't see yours as a real job offer. It seems more like a > >semi-volunteer stint with a token payment. It would be more > >interesting if it offered a lot of direct collaboration (presenting > >an educational opportunity if someone was heavily interested in > >Forth), but that wasn't mentioned. > > > >Well, I'll be interested to know how many qualified applicants you > >get. > > I think the offer is interesting, but I'm drowning in my own projects. GUI/OOP in Forth interesting? ;) I think that choosing awkward language/tool for that job should raise expenses ;) -- Manjaro all the way! http://manjaro.org/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | hughaguilar96@yahoo.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-02 15:13 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <8003649c-e6ab-427f-8124-9aafe2312817@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #33623 |
On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 8:03:45 PM UTC-7, Roger Levy wrote: > > Yes, that's the idea of being employed. One accepts money in exchange > > for taking responsibility. But if it's real responsibility for somebody > > else's business venture, then it should be real money. Otherwise it > > combines the financial sacrifice of working for free with the headache > > of having a job. I could imagine doing that if there was a unique > > personal opportunity or cause to be served. But it's hard to justify > > developing someone else's commercial product on such a basis. > > Then don't apply, Paul. > > I accepted $2000 from a big vendor to spend a few weeks FT on some graphics code. It was fun and I got paid for it. How many Forth job offers are there on CLF? 2 including mine. Get real. C.L.F. is the obvious place for anybody who is seeking to hire a Forth programmer to post a help-wanted ad. This should be obvious to both programming shops hiring directly, and "head-hunters." I have been visiting C.L.F. since 2009, and I have never seen an ad for paid work prior to Roger's. I would have expected that there were no other ads, but Roger says that there was one other, so maybe it was more than 5 years ago. Two decades ago, the obvious place to find ads was the FIG website's employment section, but it was totally dead. It is extremely rare for anybody to be willing to pay actual money for Forth programming. Forth is generally considered to be a hobby --- offering to pay somebody to program in Forth is like offering to pay somebody to solve your Sudoku puzzles for you. Within this context, it seems rather unfair to criticize Roger for offering a low amount of money as compared to what is paid for real-world programming in real-world languages (C or assembly on micro-controllers, C++, Java, etc. on desk-top computers). I got paid $10/hr at Testra in the mid-1990s --- taking inflation into account, that is about $15/hr now, which is in the range that Roger is offering. I lived in my van, slept in the Wal-Mart parking lot, and took showers at the health-club. That is the way that it goes --- MFX is the best program that I've ever written --- I'm proud of my work, even though I didn't get rich. I had "real responsibility" --- I designed and wrote the entire thing myself --- I don't know how a person could claim to be a "programmer" and not do this (this is what "program" as a verb means). I'm one of the very few people on this planet who have ever made money programming Forth --- the fact that it was not much money is immaterial --- I think that most of the people criticizing Roger for offering too little money, have never actually made money at Forth (although they may make money at C, C++, or whatever), but are in fact just Forth hobbyists. My experience after leaving Testra, is that nobody cared about my experience at Testra. In job interviews I would typically be told that Forth programming doesn't count as programming experience. I have been told that, because Forth doesn't have arrays or structs, this proves that I don't know what arrays or structs are. I have been told that, with my background in Forth, I would not be able to understand QuickBasic programs that involve files and data-structures and other high-falutin concepts (this was in the 1990s when a handful of people still clung to MS-DOS). Nobody showed any interest in actually hiring me as a programmer --- I think they called me in for the interview out of morbid curiosity, as they had never seen anybody claim to be a "Forth programmer" before --- somewhat like if they had advertised for a transportation engineer and had gotten a response from a bear who rode a bicycle in the circus.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-03 00:39 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <20141003003949.7dc67d73@maxa-pc> |
| In reply to | #33654 |
On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 15:13:03 -0700 (PDT) hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote: > On Wednesday, October 1, 2014 8:03:45 PM UTC-7, Roger Levy wrote: > > > Yes, that's the idea of being employed. One accepts money in > > > exchange for taking responsibility. But if it's real > > > responsibility for somebody else's business venture, then it > > > should be real money. Otherwise it combines the financial > > > sacrifice of working for free with the headache of having a job. > > > I could imagine doing that if there was a unique personal > > > opportunity or cause to be served. But it's hard to justify > > > developing someone else's commercial product on such a basis. > > > > Then don't apply, Paul. > > > > I accepted $2000 from a big vendor to spend a few weeks FT on some > > graphics code. It was fun and I got paid for it. How many Forth > > job offers are there on CLF? 2 including mine. Get real. > > C.L.F. is the obvious place for anybody who is seeking to hire a > Forth programmer to post a help-wanted ad. This should be obvious to > both programming shops hiring directly, and "head-hunters." I have > been visiting C.L.F. since 2009, and I have never seen an ad for paid > work prior to Roger's. I would have expected that there were no other > ads, but Roger says that there was one other, so maybe it was more > than 5 years ago. Two decades ago, the obvious place to find ads was > the FIG website's employment section, but it was totally dead. It is > extremely rare for anybody to be willing to pay actual money for > Forth programming. Forth is generally considered to be a hobby --- > offering to pay somebody to program in Forth is like offering to pay > somebody to solve your Sudoku puzzles for you. Within this context, > it seems rather unfair to criticize Roger for offering a low amount > of money as compared to what is paid for real-world programming in > real-world languages (C or assembly on micro-controllers, C++, Java, > etc. on desk-top computers). > > I got paid $10/hr at Testra in the mid-1990s --- taking inflation > into account, that is about $15/hr now, which is in the range that > Roger is offering. I lived in my van, slept in the Wal-Mart parking > lot, and took showers at the health-club. That is the way that it > goes --- MFX is the best program that I've ever written --- I'm proud > of my work, even though I didn't get rich. I had "real > responsibility" --- I designed and wrote the entire thing myself --- > I don't know how a person could claim to be a "programmer" and not do > this (this is what "program" as a verb means). I'm one of the very > few people on this planet who have ever made money programming Forth > --- the fact that it was not much money is immaterial --- I think > that most of the people criticizing Roger for offering too little > money, have never actually made money at Forth (although they may > make money at C, C++, or whatever), but are in fact just Forth > hobbyists. I think that programming language/tool is irrelevant. What companies want is code that can be easily maintained and understood by anyone. > > My experience after leaving Testra, is that nobody cared about my > experience at Testra. In job interviews I would typically be told > that Forth programming doesn't count as programming experience. I > have been told that, because Forth doesn't have arrays or structs, > this proves that I don't know what arrays or structs are. I have been > told that, with my background in Forth, I would not be able to > understand QuickBasic programs that involve files and data-structures > and other high-falutin concepts (this was in the 1990s when a handful > of people still clung to MS-DOS). Ridiculous. Forth knowledge is much higher than any BASIC knowledge. Heck I learned BASIC in 1983 when I was 14 year old no problem. Nobody showed any interest in > actually hiring me as a programmer --- I think they called me in for > the interview out of morbid curiosity, as they had never seen anybody > claim to be a "Forth programmer" before --- somewhat like if they had > advertised for a transportation engineer and had gotten a response > from a bear who rode a bicycle in the circus. I think that you didn't looked very far, or looked at wrong places. True, I never seen someone asks for Forth job, but this is because Forth *is too difficult to maintain and understand* not that it is easy... -- Manjaro all the way! http://manjaro.org/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-02 19:11 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <m0km45$ei0$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33658 |
On 10/2/2014 6:39 PM, Melzzzzz wrote: > On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 15:13:03 -0700 (PDT) > hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote: >> Nobody showed any interest in >> actually hiring me as a programmer --- I think they called me in for >> the interview out of morbid curiosity, as they had never seen anybody >> claim to be a "Forth programmer" before --- somewhat like if they had >> advertised for a transportation engineer and had gotten a response >> from a bear who rode a bicycle in the circus. > > I think that you didn't looked very far, or looked at wrong places. > True, I never seen someone asks for Forth job, but this is because > Forth *is too difficult to maintain and understand* not that it is > easy... Or maybe there was no interest in hiring Hugh regardless of how much experience he had or what language it was in. Heck, I tried to use Forth in a job once and was treated like I wanted to take the money out to be burned. -- Rick
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-03 01:32 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <20141003013204.01576dee@maxa-pc> |
| In reply to | #33660 |
On Thu, 02 Oct 2014 19:11:38 -0400 rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/2/2014 6:39 PM, Melzzzzz wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 15:13:03 -0700 (PDT) > > hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote: > >> Nobody showed any interest in > >> actually hiring me as a programmer --- I think they called me in > >> for the interview out of morbid curiosity, as they had never seen > >> anybody claim to be a "Forth programmer" before --- somewhat like > >> if they had advertised for a transportation engineer and had > >> gotten a response from a bear who rode a bicycle in the circus. > > > > I think that you didn't looked very far, or looked at wrong places. > > True, I never seen someone asks for Forth job, but this is because > > Forth *is too difficult to maintain and understand* not that it is > > easy... > > Or maybe there was no interest in hiring Hugh regardless of how much > experience he had or what language it was in. Perhaps this is because he is not tactical with people ;) > > Heck, I tried to use Forth in a job once and was treated like I > wanted to take the money out to be burned. > Besides micro-controllers I can't see use for Forth. Heck here is very rare to see C programming job on something else besides micro-controllers. Even C is suppose to be most popular language on TIOBE ;) -- Manjaro all the way! http://manjaro.org/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | hughaguilar96@yahoo.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-02 16:43 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <0fd152e3-197e-4b7a-b4e2-f3078ef4bbf1@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #33661 |
On Thursday, October 2, 2014 4:32:06 PM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote: > Perhaps this is because he is not tactical with people ;) Tactical??? LOL
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-03 01:51 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <20141003015143.6e0f690e@maxa-pc> |
| In reply to | #33664 |
On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 16:43:50 -0700 (PDT) hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote: > On Thursday, October 2, 2014 4:32:06 PM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote: > > Perhaps this is because he is not tactical with people ;) > > Tactical??? LOL You are surely no good as salesman ;) -- Manjaro all the way! http://manjaro.org/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | hughaguilar96@yahoo.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-02 17:25 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <e885606e-a1a7-4109-bfaf-74e8173d44bc@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #33665 |
On Thursday, October 2, 2014 4:51:43 PM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote: > On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 16:43:50 -0700 (PDT) > hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote: > > > On Thursday, October 2, 2014 4:32:06 PM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote: > > > Perhaps this is because he is not tactical with people ;) > > > Tactical??? LOL > > You are surely no good as salesman ;) I admit that I am no good as a salesman. :-) I just laughed because you got the words "tactful" and "tactical" mixed up --- tactical refers to military battlefield tactics, or to close-contact play in Go --- definitely not what you were trying to say. You are Serbian? I have heard good things about Serbia. When I worked as a machinist, I had a coworker who had escaped from Romania during the communist era, and he spent some time in Serbia before coming to America --- he said that Serbia at that time was freer than America, and he was disappointed that the American government closely resembled the communism that he had risked his life to escape from. He was quite racist against Albanians, Jews, Gypsies, and (after arriving in America) Guatemalans --- but he was okay with Mexicans, and he thought Serbians and Yugoslavians were good people. I've never been to Europe, so I don't have any opinion of my own regarding European culture --- I play Go with a European Gypsy (Roma) on KGS, and he seems like a good guy --- I never judge people by their race.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-03 02:38 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <20141003023805.5da9905f@maxa-pc> |
| In reply to | #33667 |
On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 17:25:59 -0700 (PDT) hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote: > On Thursday, October 2, 2014 4:51:43 PM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 16:43:50 -0700 (PDT) > > hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote: > > > > > On Thursday, October 2, 2014 4:32:06 PM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote: > > > > Perhaps this is because he is not tactical with people ;) > > > > > Tactical??? LOL > > > > You are surely no good as salesman ;) > > I admit that I am no good as a salesman. :-) > > I just laughed because you got the words "tactful" and "tactical" > mixed up --- tactical refers to military battlefield tactics, or to > close-contact play in Go --- definitely not what you were trying to > say. Heh. I literally translated from Serbian. We don't have two words for that, just single word. > > You are Serbian? I have heard good things about Serbia. Well, in 90s we had dictatorship (like one in Iraq) from communist remnants and finally got reed of that in 2000 by uprising. We are now 14 years normal country with good relationship with west and EU member candidate. Thanks god, we are not interesting news any more ;) -- Manjaro all the way! http://manjaro.org/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-02 21:25 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <m0ktv7$muo$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #33668 |
On 10/2/2014 8:38 PM, Melzzzzz wrote: > On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 17:25:59 -0700 (PDT) > hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On Thursday, October 2, 2014 4:51:43 PM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote: >>> On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 16:43:50 -0700 (PDT) >>> hughaguilar96@yahoo.com wrote: >>> >>>> On Thursday, October 2, 2014 4:32:06 PM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote: >>>>> Perhaps this is because he is not tactical with people ;) >>> >>>> Tactical??? LOL >>> >>> You are surely no good as salesman ;) >> >> I admit that I am no good as a salesman. :-) >> >> I just laughed because you got the words "tactful" and "tactical" >> mixed up --- tactical refers to military battlefield tactics, or to >> close-contact play in Go --- definitely not what you were trying to >> say. > > Heh. I literally translated from Serbian. We don't have two words for > that, just single word. More of Hugh's lack of tactics... tactical does not have to refer to military maneuvers. It also applies to other planning and action. From Merriam Webster online: 2 a : of or relating to tactics: as (1) : of or relating to small-scale actions serving a larger purpose (2) : made or carried out with only a limited or immediate end in view b : adroit in planning or maneuvering to accomplish a purpose Either way, tactical or tactful, Hugh is not great at either as illustrated by his replies to you. >> You are Serbian? I have heard good things about Serbia. > > Well, in 90s we had dictatorship (like one in Iraq) from communist > remnants and finally got reed of that in 2000 by uprising. We are now 14 > years normal country with good relationship with west and EU member > candidate. Thanks god, we are not interesting news any more ;) In China it is considered to be a curse to wish someone "to live in interesting times". ;) -- Rick
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | hughaguilar96@yahoo.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-02 16:42 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <a389948f-855b-462d-bc93-83a578e12418@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #33658 |
On Thursday, October 2, 2014 3:39:50 PM UTC-7, Melzzzzz wrote: > I think that programming language/tool is irrelevant. What > companies want is code that can be easily maintained and > understood by anyone. Testra continues to use MFX today, 20 years after I wrote it (and hence they continue to use UR/Forth under an MS-DOS-extender because MFX is written in UR/Forth) --- it was less expensive to maintain it than to rewrite it --- this has included at least one upgrade in the underlying hardware (from the Lattice isp1048 when I was there, to some FPGA now). Elizabeth Rather was lying when she said that I got fired from Testra because MFX was no good --- I quit because of the low money, no health insurance, etc. --- that Forth stuff was pretty fun to write, so I put up with the low money, but I'm not going to put up with such low money if I have to also do boring software-maintenance work. Whether this means that "anyone" could maintain MFX, is doubtful --- my coworker had a lot of Forth experience 20 years ago, and has more now (Forth is all they do at Testra) --- you're not going to hire some yahoo out of college to maintain MFX, as cross-compilers are quite complicated (and MFX more than most due to how low-level the MiniForth was) --- but I don't have any college myself, so I wouldn't know how much skill college graduates typically have.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-01 22:02 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <-Z6dnc8QbpAHm7DJnZ2dnUU7-L2dnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #33613 |
On 10/1/14 1:37 PM, Bernd Paysan wrote: > Roger Levy wrote: > >> This is a part time gig (~60-80 hours/mo). $1000/mo, 6-12 month contract. >> Negotiable. Potential for more, and/or profit-share if involved in games >> or StudioUI-based standalone applications later on. > > Hm, I get between $12.5 and $16.6 per hour out of your offer; what are you > looking for? This is barely above minimum wage. > Skilled Forth programmers have been earning triple digit $/hour for 15 years. And the good ones that I know (and there are quite a few) are fully booked. For this rate you will get (if you're lucky) an enthusiastic amateur with limited Forth experience. Sorry, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-02 03:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <df3e0bef-5ff7-4445-8a53-e107306969d0@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #33632 |
> Skilled Forth programmers have been earning triple digit $/hour for 15 This is just ridiculous.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-03 00:57 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <20141003005740.3da2279a@maxa-pc> |
| In reply to | #33635 |
On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 03:18:28 -0700 (PDT) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> wrote: > > Skilled Forth programmers have been earning triple digit $/hour for > > 15 > > This is just ridiculous. It's not. Here in Serbia where average wage is 300 euros, entry level JavaScript/PHP programmers get around 1000 euros per month (full time employee), 60% more if they work on contract. -- Manjaro all the way! http://manjaro.org/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-02 22:44 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <150593aa-bcc5-4396-933d-b213631e97ad@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #33659 |
vineri, 3 octombrie 2014, 01:57:41 UTC+3, Melzzzzz a scris: > On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 03:18:28 -0700 (PDT) > > Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Skilled Forth programmers have been earning triple digit $/hour for > > > > 15 > > > > > > This is just ridiculous. > > > > It's not. Here in Serbia where average wage is 300 euros, entry > > level JavaScript/PHP programmers get around 1000 euros per month > > (full time employee), 60% more if they work on contract. > > > > -- > > Manjaro all the way! > > http://manjaro.org/ Maybe you didn't understand. I was refering to triple digit $/hour. With the "minimum" triple digit of $100/hr that's 16000 (16 thousand) per month!
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-02 21:42 -1000 |
| Message-ID | <z5adnSbN98LEzrPJnZ2dnUU7-SudnZ2d@supernews.com> |
| In reply to | #33673 |
On 10/2/2014 7:44 PM, Raimond Dragomir wrote: > vineri, 3 octombrie 2014, 01:57:41 UTC+3, Melzzzzz a scris: >> On Thu, 2 Oct 2014 03:18:28 -0700 (PDT) >> >> Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>>> Skilled Forth programmers have been earning triple digit $/hour for >> >>>> 15 >> >>> This is just ridiculous. >> >> >> >> It's not. Here in Serbia where average wage is 300 euros, entry >> >> level JavaScript/PHP programmers get around 1000 euros per month >> >> (full time employee), 60% more if they work on contract. >> >> -- >> >> Manjaro all the way! >> >> http://manjaro.org/ > > Maybe you didn't understand. I was refering to triple digit $/hour. With the "minimum" triple digit of $100/hr that's 16000 (16 thousand) per month! I'm guessing maybe the cost of living there isn't quite as high as some parts of the US. Cheers, Elizabeth -- ================================================== Elizabeth D. Rather (US & Canada) 800-55-FORTH FORTH Inc. +1 310.999.6784 5959 West Century Blvd. Suite 700 Los Angeles, CA 90045 http://www.forth.com "Forth-based products and Services for real-time applications since 1973." ==================================================
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | hughaguilar96@yahoo.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-03 16:17 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <528d6fb8-0ccf-47bc-a286-b3797918caca@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #33674 |
On Friday, October 3, 2014 12:42:19 AM UTC-7, Elizabeth D Rather wrote: > On 10/2/2014 7:44 PM, Raimond Dragomir wrote: > > Maybe you didn't understand. I was refering to triple digit $/hour. With the "minimum" triple digit of $100/hr that's 16000 (16 thousand) per month! > > I'm guessing maybe the cost of living there isn't quite as high as some > parts of the US. This whole thread is turning into a Gavino-style boasting contest as to how many hundreds of dollars per hour people make. Each one of you is like Tarzan out in the jungle beating his chest and yelling: "I make $100/hr --- woo hooooooooooooooo! Who can top that? yaaaaayyyyyyyyy!" Most likely, the reason why nobody is responding to Roger, is because nobody ever writes application programs and they are scared of the idea of having to actually produce code that works --- it is so much more fun to hang out on C.L.F. and boast about working for NASA or whatever --- easier too, as the difficult part of programming (testing and debugging) is artfully avoided. But I'm wasting time with this C.L.F. nonsense --- I have to get back to debugging my Forth code that isn't working (F'ing word-lists!) --- I am getting paid for it, after all (and, no, I don't want to talk about the job, as it is not very much money, so don't even ask.)
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-03 23:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <2e1646b2-7c24-4b23-9147-e70798b99ee2@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #33684 |
sâmbătă, 4 octombrie 2014, 02:17:39 UTC+3, hughag...@yahoo.com a scris: > On Friday, October 3, 2014 12:42:19 AM UTC-7, Elizabeth D Rather wrote: > > > On 10/2/2014 7:44 PM, Raimond Dragomir wrote: > > > > Maybe you didn't understand. I was refering to triple digit $/hour. With the "minimum" triple digit of $100/hr that's 16000 (16 thousand) per month! > > > > > > I'm guessing maybe the cost of living there isn't quite as high as some > > > parts of the US. > > > > This whole thread is turning into a Gavino-style boasting contest as to how many hundreds of dollars per hour people make. Each one of you is like Tarzan out in the jungle beating his chest and yelling: "I make $100/hr --- woo hooooooooooooooo! Who can top that? yaaaaayyyyyyyyy!" > > > > Most likely, the reason why nobody is responding to Roger, is because nobody ever writes application programs and they are scared of the idea of having to actually produce code that works --- it is so much more fun to hang out on C.L.F. and boast about working for NASA or whatever --- easier too, as the difficult part of programming (testing and debugging) is artfully avoided. > You are right. I myself didn't intend to post in this thread, I'm all involved in embedded systems only, although the job offer is quite interesting - and I cannot stop thinking about Roger's project into an embedded system (like the raspi he mentioned). But the whole thing turned to be ridiculous with all those crazy sums vehiculated. Personally, I wouldn't put any other job offer here. Maybe some other places (maybe some freelancing sites?) will be more valuable in finding a programmer. In the end, maybe it's not the Forth language the primary requirement anyway, as Roger said some posts ago. P.S. Roger, I may have in some near future an embedded project based on a "big" system, like raspi, beaglebone, or the like. It will be almost for sure based on some linux kernel (mainly because on these kind of boards you really don't have any other chance to make the hardware drivers working), but the entire developing framework, including the graphics, is uncertain. If this project will come to the table, I may contact you. It's not about the games, it will be industrial. But it will certainly have good graphics requirements.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-04 11:25 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d9d975bc-95e7-4238-aa7c-0e91c23ea29d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #33690 |
On Friday, October 3, 2014 11:29:00 PM UTC-7, Raimond Dragomir wrote: > If this project will come to the table, I may contact you. It's not about the games, it will be industrial. But it will certainly have good graphics requirements. Open GL stuff I assume. 2.0? 1.1? Jason
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | hughaguilar96@yahoo.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2014-10-04 16:44 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d95db91c-1e90-41b5-9064-2b74b1e946fa@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #33690 |
On Friday, October 3, 2014 11:29:00 PM UTC-7, Raimond Dragomir wrote: > But the whole thing turned to be ridiculous with all those crazy sums vehiculated. I have no idea what this means --- we seem to have lost something in the Romanian>English translation. ?-) > P.S. Roger, I may have in some near future an embedded project based on a "big" system, like raspi, beaglebone, or the like. It will be almost for sure based on some linux kernel (mainly because on these kind of boards you really don't have any other chance to make the hardware drivers working), but the entire developing framework, including the graphics, is uncertain. > > If this project will come to the table, I may contact you. It's not about the games, it will be industrial. But it will certainly have good graphics requirements. Over time, there is less and less of a distinction between the micro-controller and the desktop-computer. In the good old days (by some accounts: the bad old days), micro-controllers didn't have an OS. Now we have boards such as Raimond mentioned above with Linux on them, and with a graphical display. I doubt that an OS will ever be used for hard real-time, such as motion-control, but it can be used for soft real-time (soft means: time allotments are measured in milliseconds rather than microseconds).
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | comp.lang.forth
csiph-web