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Re: Software's Weak Link is Code

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On Thu, 24 Jul 2014 03:26:58 -0400, Rod Pemberton wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Jul 2014 12:59:42 -0400, <visualforth@rocketmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Software's Weak Link is Code... - this is the title of an 'electronic
>> design' article which I just read:
>> [link]
>>
>> Peter Thorne writes about a paradigm shift in which we are living now -
>> leaving 'hand-coding' behind us, switching to automated code generation
>> using system-diagram-based tools and the like.
> 
> Someone must still code the "system-diagram-based tools" via
> 'hand-coding'.
> 
The fact that someone had to make the stone-ax to..to dig the coal, to
make the electricity, to make the aluminum..to  ;doesn't stop you from
useing the airliner?

> Once the "system-diagram-based tools" are coded correctly, then anything
> compiled using them could solve the problem of code being the weak link,
> if code really is such a problem, which I doubt.
> 
> The big advantage isn't the elimination of code, but the elimination of
> coding skills.

You are just rephrasing the issue.

>  They've replaced skilled programming with
> point-and-click diagramming where you don't need an education or skills
> in programming, math, engineering, problem solving, or much intelligence
> to code, etc, although you may need some skills of the specific domain,
> say PLDs or EFT or OLTP or whatever.
> 
"point & klik" sees only what-is-physically-done.
"recognise & select, instead of DUMB/inefficient remembering" is the 
ADVANTAGE.
> Using diagrams would offer tremendous advantages to those who are
> especially visual as compared to those who are verbal.  Unfortunately,
> verbal people account for 75% of the populace.  So, you diminish the
> number of people who would work as effectively with the new tools.

Yes: the econamy doesn't NEED them; like the 95% population that used
to be farmers. Now they can all be politicians, lawers and Maidox.

>  I'm
> not saying verbal people can't use visual tools.  Visual people use
> verbal tools every day.  I'm just saying that one group is likely more
> effective with specific tools than the other.
> 
Yes.

> Another advantage is that an image or "visual code" can represent far
> more information than some lines of written code.  If anything, the
> "image is worth a thousand words" belief is comparable to a language
> with a high, average level of "function points" per code statement.
> 
>> This is a chance for Forth to stay alive. Using Forth is an excellent
>> choice for building such kind of tools. Forth has all the features
>> needed for automatic software generation.
> 
> Compilers, including C compilers, have "all the features" that are
> needed for "automatic software generation" too.  There are also many
> programs which do automatic code generation, e.g., Lex, Yacc, etc.
> 
>> VisualFORTH uses automatic software generation, and that's the way to
>> go.
> 
I like that idea. Where did color-forth "go".
I've been using 'very visual' [can work without a keybrd] ETHOberon,
since 90's. For me, anything else is like tying your shoes-laces
wearing boxing-gloves. But the kiddies don't use ETHO.
 
> Ok.  But, it seems that Forth would be very "late to the party" to me,
> especially considering that VisualBasic has been around since 1991 ...
> I.e., timing, advantage, etc issues.
> 
> 
Wasn't VB very popular?

> Rod Pemberton

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Software's Weak Link is Code visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-07-23 09:59 -0700
  Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-07-23 10:32 -0700
    Re: Software's Weak Link is Code JUERGEN <epldfpga@aol.com> - 2014-07-23 11:40 -0700
      Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Celeros <kerneels@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 16:10 +0200
        Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 07:22 -0700
          Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 07:28 -0700
          Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-07-25 18:06 +0100
          Re: Software's Weak Link is Code rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-07-25 15:16 -0400
            Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Paul E Bennett <Paul_E.Bennett@topmail.co.uk> - 2014-07-25 22:19 +0100
            Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Celeros <kerneels@gmail.com> - 2014-07-26 23:42 +0200
              Re: Software's Weak Link is Code rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-07-26 22:44 -0400
        Re: Software's Weak Link is Code "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-07-25 16:45 -0400
          Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Celeros <kerneels@gmail.com> - 2014-07-26 23:08 +0200
    Re: Software's Weak Link is Code "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-07-24 00:04 +0100
      Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Roger Levy <roger.levy@gmail.com> - 2014-07-24 08:25 -0700
  Re: Software's Weak Link is Code "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-07-24 03:26 -0400
    Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-07-24 01:32 -0700
    Re: Software's Weak Link is Code Unknown <dog@gmail.com> - 2014-07-26 08:17 +0000
      Re: Software's Weak Link is Code "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-07-26 05:39 -0400
        Re: Software's Weak Link is Code visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2014-07-26 17:37 -0700
  Re: Software's Weak Link is Code anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2014-07-24 13:45 +0000

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