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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #29931

Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C

From "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C
Date 2014-04-28 05:42 -0400
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <op.xe0s8gf96zenlw@localhost> (permalink)
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On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 04:27:56 -0400, Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com>  
wrote:

>> So, yes, totally and completely seriously, ASCII supports extended
>> ASCII which are 8-bits, i.e., ASCII is not *only* 7-bits.
>
> Sure. But your original statement was:
>
> Bob Bemer and Hugh McGregor Ross created ASCII and EBCDIC. They defined  
> a character of exactly 8-bits.
>

That's true.

> To be fair, you later said:
>
> I accept that the non-extended ASCII characters only need 7-bits for  
> their representation.  But, I don't accept that ASCII is only 7-bits
> and not 8-bits.
>

That's true too.

> The Wikipedia page for ASCII (not authoratative, I accept) states:
>
> The American Standard Code for Information Interchange (ASCII /ˈæski/  
> ASS-kee)[1] is a character-encoding scheme originally based on the  
> English alphabet that encodes 128 specified characters - the numbers  
> 0-9, the letters a-z and A-Z, some basic punctuation symbols, some  
> control codes that originated with Teletype machines, and a blank space  
> - into the 7-bit binary integers.[2]
>
> ASCII developed from telegraphic codes. Its first commercial use was as  
> a seven-bit teleprinter code promoted by Bell data services. Work on the  
> ASCII standard began on October 6, 1960, with the first meeting of the  
> American Standards Association's (ASA) X3.2 subcommittee. The first  
> edition of the standard was published during 1963,[3][4] a major  
> revision during 1967,[5] and the most recent update during 1986.[6]
>
> When one checks reference [6] one finds it is entitled: American  
> National Standard for Information Systems — Coded Character Sets — 7-Bit  
> American National Standard Code for Information Interchange (7-Bit  
> ASCII), ANSI X3.4-1986. American National Standards Institute. March 26,  
> 1986
>

I don't see anything here that changes anything.

> From what I can gather reading online, the ASCII character set is a 7  
> bit code.

No.  The ASCII specification provides for 8-bit ASCII encodings.  These
are called extended ASCII characters.  ASCII is not exclusively 7-bits.
That's the entire point.

This was proven in the pdf, an extended version of the ASCII standard,
that Alex provide a link too.

What you (and apparently Alex too) are saying is that because the ASCII
standard allows a 7-bit subset of the character set to be used, then a
byte and therefore a character as it was defined by Bob Bemer, Hugh
McGregor Ross, and Dr. Werner Buchholz is not exactly eight bits, but
seven.

That's backwards.

> IBM later extended it to 8 bits, known as EBCDIC, but the 8-bit version  
> has been (incorrectly) referred to as ASCII.

I don't know where you get this.

> Unfortunately I don't subscribe to ANSI.org so I wasn't able to download  
> the actual PDF of the standard tect, and didn't manage to find a copy  
> during my brief search. But it looks like ASCII is a 7-bit system and  
> the 8-bit system we all know so well isn't actually ASCII, but EBCDIC,  
> which is an IBM extension of ASCII. I didn't know that, so I've learned  
> something, and it's only 9.25am!
>

EBCDIC is not an extension of ASCII.  It has a different character
ordering and encodings.


Rod Pemberton

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Thread

Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C cslarsen@gmail.com - 2014-04-18 06:46 -0700
  Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Pablo Hugo Reda <pabloreda@gmail.com> - 2014-04-18 07:13 -0700
  Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Hans Bezemer <the.beez.speaks@gmail.com> - 2014-04-18 16:41 +0200
  Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C jacko <jackokring@gmail.com> - 2014-04-18 11:31 -0700
  Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-19 03:08 -0400
    Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-19 02:59 -0500
      Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-19 04:55 -0400
        Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-19 16:15 -0500
          Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-19 23:47 +0200
          Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-19 22:12 -0400
            Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-20 02:41 -0500
              Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-21 21:16 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-21 18:37 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-22 02:48 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-22 16:15 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-22 20:58 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-22 23:36 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-22 21:38 -1000
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-23 06:14 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-23 21:10 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-24 23:09 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-24 00:31 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-04-26 20:17 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-04-26 20:29 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-22 05:07 -0500
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-22 07:54 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-22 05:27 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-22 08:37 -0500
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-22 21:18 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2014-04-23 07:26 +0200
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2014-04-23 08:40 -0500
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-04-26 21:52 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-27 00:18 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-04-27 01:10 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-27 01:28 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-04-27 01:42 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-27 02:56 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-04-27 03:09 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-27 05:07 -0400
        Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C jkn_gg@nicorp.f9.co.uk - 2014-04-20 14:02 -0700
          Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2014-04-21 01:27 +0000
            Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2014-04-21 14:19 -0400
              Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2014-04-21 20:35 +0200
              Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C andraszsoter@gmail.com - 2014-04-21 11:54 -0700
              Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-21 20:25 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-21 18:26 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-22 03:29 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-22 16:19 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-22 20:23 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-22 23:16 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-27 01:43 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-27 11:33 +0100
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-28 01:02 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-28 01:27 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-27 22:56 -1000
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-28 05:42 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-28 04:24 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-28 13:43 +0100
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-29 08:06 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-29 19:22 +0100
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2014-05-25 16:44 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-29 07:54 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-29 06:06 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2014-04-29 19:07 +0100
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-28 04:17 -0700
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-29 08:20 -0400
                Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2014-04-29 06:09 -0700
          Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothaver.cqm> - 2014-04-21 20:39 -0400
    Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-04-18 22:24 -1000
      Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnothavet.cqm> - 2014-04-19 05:02 -0400
  Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-04-19 01:43 -0700
  Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C andraszsoter@gmail.com - 2014-04-21 09:30 -0700
  Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-25 15:31 -0700
    Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-25 16:54 -1000
      Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-25 22:29 -0700
      Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "VisualForth.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2014-05-26 10:45 -0700
        Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2014-05-26 09:39 -1000
  Re: Recommendation of a Forth to embed in C Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2014-05-25 16:30 -0700

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