Re: LLVM and Forth

From	Alex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: LLVM and Forth
Date	2017-04-06 09:52 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<oc4vfd$mv3$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<21153661-abf5-4958-82c7-e3c442b45cb9@googlegroups.com> <obrlv4$u1m$1@dont-email.me> <798e62ed-1ab9-45f8-9487-3d320888bbcd@googlegroups.com> <oc463g$m8k$1@z-news.wcss.wroc.pl> <135f816d-6e79-43d0-8cd5-a305dbddb834@googlegroups.com>

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On 4/6/2017 06:00, minforth@arcor.de wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 6. April 2017 03:36:49 UTC+2 schrieb
> anti...@math.uni.wroc.pl:
>> hughaguilar96@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 1:15:22 PM UTC-7, Alex wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Early in the development of LLVM there was this; Stacker. It
>>>> was very Forth like, but compiled and no interpretation.
>>>>
>>>> http://web.cs.ucla.edu/classes/spring08/cs259/llvm-2.2/docs/Stacker.html
>>>
>>>
>>>>
This is primarily why I'm not interested in LLVM --- because it has to 
be cross-compiled into --- you can't have the traditional interactive 
Forth development system.
>>
>> Apparently you do not understand how LLVM works.  You can use LLVM
>> as a traditional compiler.  But you can also use it for run-time
>> code generation.  Basically, you type some input to your Forth,
>> your Forth translates it and calls LLVM to generate code.  LLVM
>> puts machine code in a buffer and you can immediately call this
>> code.  In other words once you pressed Enter you see results of
>> running your code -- as interactive as it can be.
>>
>> Several big name products that used to contains their own
>> interpreters now use LLVM to get faster code for interactive use.
>>
>> -- Waldek Hebisch
>
> I've never heard of a Forth system with JIT compiler, LLVM-based or
> different. Seems a software monstrosity to me.

Why is it a monster? An ITC is an example of an intermediate 
representation of the code that's eventually executed, rather than 
compiled & executed; but it could be another intermediate that's 
compiled and executed just as readily.

>
> The other way round makes more sense: a JIT compiler spitting out
> Forth code.  ;-)
>

Again, why? A stack machine might benefit having Forth as an 
intermediate language (IL) but it makes many activities hard to do 
efficiently in a register based machine. The only reason folks generate 
C as an IL is the ready availability of compilers, most of which 
generate pretty decent code (nose demons acknowledged).

-- 
Alex

Thread

LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-01 06:36 -0700
  Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-01 14:57 +0000
    Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-01 11:55 -0700
      Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-02 15:24 +0000
  Re: LLVM and Forth rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 11:21 -0400
    Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-01 11:57 -0700
      Re: LLVM and Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-02 04:02 -0500
        Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-02 06:35 -0700
          Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-02 14:41 +0000
          Re: LLVM and Forth minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-03 01:09 -0700
            Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-03 05:32 -0700
              Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-03 13:52 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-03 07:59 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-03 16:08 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-03 12:22 -0500
                Re: LLVM and Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-03 20:10 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-03 22:19 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-04 16:12 +0200
                Re: LLVM and Forth Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2017-04-05 17:27 -0400
            Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-03 14:29 +0000
          Re: LLVM and Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-03 03:17 -0500
            Re: LLVM and Forth minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-03 05:04 -0700
            Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-03 12:55 +0000
              Re: LLVM and Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-03 10:08 -0500
                Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-03 17:05 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-04 11:29 -0500
                Re: LLVM and Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-04 19:11 +0200
                Re: LLVM and Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-04 21:29 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-05 15:01 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-05 18:42 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-06 04:01 -0500
                Re: LLVM and Forth Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 18:48 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 18:42 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-07 04:02 -0500
                Re: LLVM and Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 21:18 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 22:43 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 20:54 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-09 14:53 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 00:38 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-04-09 22:46 -0400
                Re: LLVM and Forth Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2017-04-09 22:27 -0500
                Re: LLVM and Forth Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 12:36 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-04-10 14:09 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 13:07 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2017-04-10 16:18 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-04-10 11:51 -0400
                Re: LLVM and Forth Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-04-12 21:32 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth "James R. Kuyper" <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2017-04-12 18:29 -0400
                Re: LLVM and Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-12 15:29 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-13 02:55 +0200
                Re: LLVM and Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-10 18:38 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-10 11:54 -0500
                Re: LLVM and Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-10 10:17 -0700
              Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-03 17:02 +0100
              Re: LLVM and Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-03 10:03 -0700
            Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-04 03:25 -0700
              Re: LLVM and Forth Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-04-04 11:24 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-04 04:55 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-04-04 12:28 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-04 16:16 +0000
              Re: LLVM and Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-04 15:38 +0200
                Re: LLVM and Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-04 16:06 +0200
                Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-04 17:57 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-05 00:44 -0400
                Re: LLVM and Forth minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-05 00:00 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-05 08:47 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-05 11:04 -0500
                Re: LLVM and Forth john <anon@example.com> - 2017-04-05 18:04 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-05 13:04 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-05 18:20 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-05 20:14 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 12:33 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-06 10:49 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-06 18:55 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 20:41 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-06 21:47 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-06 21:56 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-06 23:59 -0400
                Re: LLVM and Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 17:10 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-07 03:33 -0400
                Re: LLVM and Forth Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 22:48 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-09 15:06 -0400
                Re: LLVM and Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-08 22:45 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-09 14:27 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth Joel Rees <joel.rees@gmail.com> - 2017-04-09 21:26 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-09 13:35 -0400
                Re: LLVM and Forth Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-04-09 14:07 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-05 12:16 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-05 20:27 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-06 05:24 -0400
                Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-06 03:26 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-06 04:05 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-06 06:50 -0500
                Re: LLVM and Forth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-06 05:23 -0400
                Re: LLVM and Forth Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-04-06 04:44 -0500
                Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-06 10:57 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth peter.m.falth@gmail.com - 2017-04-05 05:29 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-14 02:04 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-15 14:03 +0200
                Re: LLVM and Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-16 00:44 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth alex@rivadpm.com - 2017-04-16 05:53 -0700
                Re: LLVM and Forth anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-04-16 15:43 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-16 22:27 +0000
                Re: LLVM and Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-18 02:45 +0200
                Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-18 18:26 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-20 19:51 +0200
                Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-20 19:08 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-04-20 20:42 +0200
                Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-20 20:29 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-20 20:48 +0100
                Re: LLVM and Forth "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-04-21 11:49 +0000
          Re: LLVM and Forth Rod Pemberton <NeedNotReplyHere@xrsevnneqk.cem> - 2017-04-03 20:39 -0400
  Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-02 21:15 +0100
    Re: LLVM and Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-02 15:18 -0700
      Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-03 13:07 +0100
        Re: LLVM and Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-03 09:45 -0700
          Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-03 22:52 +0100
            Re: LLVM and Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-03 15:25 -0700
              Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-06 09:35 +0100
      Re: LLVM and Forth antispam@math.uni.wroc.pl - 2017-04-06 01:36 +0000
        Re: LLVM and Forth minforth@arcor.de - 2017-04-05 22:00 -0700
          Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-06 09:52 +0100
        Re: LLVM and Forth hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2017-04-06 20:15 -0700
    Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-03 05:20 -0700
      Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-03 17:11 +0100
  Re: LLVM and Forth Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-04-06 17:43 +0100
    Re: LLVM and Forth krishna.myneni@ccreweb.org - 2017-04-06 10:53 -0700

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