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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #44498
| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) |
| Date | 2016-01-01 18:16 +0100 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <n66c57$4on$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <n60beo$tfq$1@speranza.aioe.org> <sIKdnbt4lsRKsBnLnZ2dnUU7-U-dnZ2d@supernews.com> <2015Dec31.153422@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <n64756$tdg$1@dont-email.me> <2016Jan1.110522@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> |
Anton Ertl wrote: >>Also, embedded systems like Mecrisp do similar things, mostly to make >>VARIABLE possible if you compile to flash (CREATE in that case is only >>useful for constant data). > > Well, that system obviously has restrictions beyond even those that > the standard imposes, so it's not a good argument for keeping that > particular restriction. If we lifted that restriction from the > standard, Mecrisp would not become any less standard than it is now. It has, because the standard does not care about systems in flash. This concerns CREATE DOES> which is replaced by <BUILDS DOES> and the variable space, which is separated from the dictionary (plus that all variables in Mecrisp have Forth-79 initializers, because bulk initialization saves space in the flash). Otherwise, Mecrisp is pretty standard. Other flash-based systems have similar problems, though only Mecrisp has been ported to systems with a wide variety of different restrictions imposed by different flash implementations (thanks to ARM Cortex Mx implementation from many different manufacturers), so other systems could deal better (e.g. Gforth EC R8C can use CREATE and modify it with DOES> exactly one time, but the variable space is separated from the dictionary there, too). We simply should accept that an embedded system has write-once and write- often memory. That's a constraint the implementer can't ignore, and then he will instead ignore the standard in this particular case. The cache coherence issues in modern CPUs suggest that you probably want to have something similar there - you can mix code and constant data fine, but you can't mix code and changing data, as your microbenchmark shows. So this separation is not only good for microcontrollers, but also for high-end CPUs. Instead of having all variables initialized with a constant (Mecrisp), I would rather go at having a separate initialized version of VARIABLE, since this is not always needed, and then, the variable initializing region can be even smaller. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" net2o ID: kQusJzA;7*?t=uy@X}1GWr!+0qqp_Cn176t4(dQ* http://bernd-paysan.de/
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Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-06 21:44 -0700
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2015-10-07 08:24 +0200
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-07 00:48 -0700
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-10-07 05:41 -0700
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-10-07 12:05 -0700
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-27 18:04 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-12-27 18:12 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-12-28 13:33 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 00:54 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 12:32 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-12-28 12:43 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-12-28 22:13 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-12-28 13:21 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-12-28 23:47 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 13:13 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-12-28 23:50 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 15:33 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-28 15:37 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 22:18 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-12-28 22:31 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 23:30 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 02:47 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 08:19 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 08:26 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 09:34 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-29 10:22 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-12-30 12:15 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 08:26 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-12-31 16:10 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 08:35 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 08:51 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-12-30 12:21 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-30 10:46 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-12-30 13:15 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-30 13:11 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-12-30 15:35 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-30 15:00 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-12-31 00:13 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-12-31 10:09 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-12-31 13:46 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-12-31 13:56 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-12-31 17:24 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-01 14:23 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-01-01 20:24 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-01 22:38 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-02 13:24 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-02 15:32 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-01-02 16:41 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-03 14:43 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-02 13:13 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-12-31 16:57 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-12-31 16:41 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-12-31 14:13 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-12-31 22:27 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-01 13:38 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-01 18:46 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-01-01 09:01 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-01 22:35 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-01-01 08:39 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-01 21:01 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-01-01 20:18 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-12-31 22:19 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-01-01 21:43 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2016-01-01 23:36 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-02 15:36 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-01-02 12:18 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-03 14:34 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-03 19:57 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-01-04 22:49 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 15:05 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-04 20:36 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-05 13:03 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 14:30 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-05 21:10 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-05 21:26 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 05:01 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-06 00:13 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-01-06 19:47 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-07 21:43 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-08 05:54 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-01-08 16:44 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-08 16:27 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-08 17:18 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-01-08 17:00 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-01-08 04:52 -0600
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-08 11:27 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-08 16:44 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-08 21:17 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-01-08 16:57 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-08 17:06 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2016-01-08 20:24 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-09 17:05 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-01-08 20:02 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-08 21:49 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-09 22:06 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2016-01-10 07:46 -0600
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-10 14:35 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-10 11:55 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-12 13:26 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) peter.m.falth@gmail.com - 2016-01-12 15:10 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-01-12 13:23 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-12 20:42 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-12 21:08 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-13 15:17 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) peter.m.falth@gmail.com - 2016-01-13 13:26 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2016-01-04 14:19 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-05 07:24 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-12-31 16:24 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-29 12:31 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-12-29 14:52 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-12-30 02:11 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-29 23:46 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-12-30 21:25 +1100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-30 09:17 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-12-31 12:55 +1100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-30 16:26 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2016-01-02 12:30 +1100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2016-01-01 16:31 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2016-01-01 21:31 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2016-01-02 12:04 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-12-31 12:04 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-12-31 13:31 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-31 08:50 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-01 14:13 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-12-31 14:34 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-12-31 22:39 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2016-01-01 10:05 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-01 18:16 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Jan Coombs <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com> - 2016-01-01 17:49 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-01 19:23 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2016-01-01 15:53 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2016-01-02 14:20 +0100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2016-01-02 16:34 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Mikael Nordman <oh2aun@gmail.com> - 2016-01-02 14:08 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-12-30 20:40 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-30 08:28 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-12-30 11:11 +0000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-12-28 15:40 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-12-30 10:14 +1100
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-12-28 15:35 -1000
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-12-30 20:58 -0800
Re: Boring for most of you, but I'm having fun ... :) Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2016-01-02 02:25 -0800
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