Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations?

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations?
Date	2015-06-24 18:38 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<mmfbec$91c$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <2acbe8ee-ae98-4fda-8427-fb81325dffea@googlegroups.com> <mmc5k6$5d8$1@dont-email.me> <87lhfaxik6.fsf@nightsong.com> <mmehg9$rf5$1@dont-email.me> <87616cyde1.fsf@nightsong.com>

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On 6/24/2015 6:01 PM, Paul Rubin wrote:
> rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> writes:
>>> http://linuxgizmos.com/beaglebone-sbc-goes-oem-com-version-coming/
>> This is interesting, but no, this is a different board.  The board I
>> heard about will *not* have the rounded corners and will be designed
>> with *all* the BBB circuitry, with customization by leaving parts off
>> the board.
>
> Hmm, interesting that more than one vendor is making an industrial BBB
> then.  FWIW, I've heard that the BBB's rounded corners were to make it
> fit in an Altoids tin, which people complained that the rpi couldn't do.
>
>> Probably the most useful part of this board is that the maker is
>> giving assurance of the board being produced for 8 years.
>
> That's kind of an interesting claim: who knows if the parts on it,
> particularly the Sitara SOC, will still be around in 8 years.

The guy building the BBB has a tight connection with TI, so I'm sure he 
has an assurance from TI that this chip will be around.

> I'm not a hardware guy and so this is just an uninformed impression, but
> it's seemed to me that these RPI/BBB/Cubieboard style boards are a bit
> complicated for the manufacturer to get completely working, partly
> because the SOC's are intended for use in mobile phones and tend to be
> complicated by functions that an SBC doesn't really need.

Like what?  I can't think of anything the BBB CPU uses externally that 
isn't pretty fully exercised by now.

> Their
> documentation may not be so great either, since they're usually sold to
> quite large customers (phone manufacturers) who can work closely with
> the chip vendor.  Finally because phones are trendy and highly cost
> sensitive consumer electronics, product longevity may not be so great
> either (so the 8 year claim raises an eyebrow).

My last conversation with people about what CPUs *are* used in cell 
phones indicated that *none* of these CPUs are actually used in cell 
phones.  Cell phones mostly use fully custom SoCs which incorporate many 
phone functions on chip... which seems to be what you are referring to 
earlier.  Think about it a bit, do cell phones need an HDMI output?

My understanding is that the rPi CPU was intended for settop boxes, 
hence the HDMI output.

> By comparison, the simpler arm7 cpus used on the lower end boards seem
> more intended for low-moderate volume industrial use, so they're
> possibly more conservative in various ways, and maybe better documented.

Apples and oranges.  I don't get your point.  My understanding is the 
only part of the BCM2835 that is not fully documented is the GPU which 
is very common on such chips.  The "ARM7" chips you talk about are 
really CM3 and CM4 devices and don't typically have GPUs.  They also run 
some 10 times slower than the larger chips and are targeted to very 
different apps.  If these aren't the chips you mean you need to be a bit 
more  specific.

> We used the Glomation board with a 300(?) mhz ARM and 64MB of ram, and
> then we later made a custom board with a comparable cpu without too much
> fuss, using the Freestyle reference Linux kernel and the Angstrom
> distribution, which is more embedded-oriented than desktop distros like
> Debian.  So I think life is easier if the hardware isn't trying to push
> the envelope.

What envelope?  I don't think anyone considers the BBB or rPi to be 
bleeding edge.

-- 

Rick

Thread

Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-17 04:35 -0700
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 05:21 -0700
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 08:57 -0700
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-17 10:58 -0700
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Jan Coombs <Jan-54 <jenfhaomndgfwutc@murmic.plus.com>> - 2015-06-17 22:39 +0100
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-17 23:10 -0700
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 16:24 -0400
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-18 16:17 -0400
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 07:49 -0700
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 09:36 -0700
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 13:40 -0700
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 13:00 -0400
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 11:13 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-20 15:04 -0400
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 20:25 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 20:34 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:40 -0400
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 08:29 -0700
              Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 13:40 -0400
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-23 13:42 -0700
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 07:11 -0700
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 11:15 -0400
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 10:16 -0700
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 17:54 -0400
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-24 15:01 -0700
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 18:38 -0400
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-24 16:37 -0700
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 21:01 -0400
                Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-26 12:58 -0700
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 12:24 -0700
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-06-20 14:03 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-20 15:03 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-06-21 01:33 -0700
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-23 09:47 -0400
  Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? darek.maksimiuk@gmail.com - 2015-06-30 13:52 -0700
    Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-07-01 10:45 -0700
      Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-07-01 15:01 -0700
        Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2015-07-01 18:14 -0700
          Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-07-02 00:49 -0700
            Re: Industrial Single Board Forth Computer - recommendations? Howerd <howerdo@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-07-02 03:02 -0700

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