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Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1

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on 10/06/2015 00:41:54, Bernd Paysan wrote:
> Alex McDonald wrote:
> 
>> on 09/06/2015 22:35:19, Bernd Paysan wrote:
>>> Alex McDonald wrote:
>>>
>>>> Windows NT uses UCS-2 which requires 2 bytes. Prior to that it was ASCII
>>>> and codepages, a solution so awful we still live with its unreadable
>>>> consequences to this day. NT is only of interest as a historical example
>>>> of doing the right thing, but being too early and backing the wrong
>>>> horse. This decision forced MS into later using UTF-16 rather than
>>>> UTF-8.
>>>
>>> IMHO that's wrong. CP_UTF8 exists, all they need to do is to make it a
>>> fully supported code page (instead of supporting it only for
>>> conversion functions), which works for all the *A versions of their
>>> API calls. Actually, I don't even understand why they have first-class
>>> and second-class code pages for the *A versions, as internally, all
>>> the *A stuff goes through a wrapper which converts the string to
>>> UTF-16, anyways. Apart from Windows 9x, which is dead and burried.
>>>
>>> They weren't forced into that decision.  It is sheer stupidity.
>>>
>> UTF-8 postdated Windows NT.
> 
> Did you read my text? I repeat it for you: The *A versions in Windows
> NT go through a string conversion wrapper, and all they need to do is
> add CP_UTF8 as first-class codepage.

Yes, I read your text. What you're suggesting isn't possible. The
codepage is set for the entire OS and *A calls do not provide specific
codepages. It is possible to overide and use codepage 65001 (UTF-8) for
the command line processor (the "DOS console") but that isn't possible
for windowed apps, and it only affects input and output to the console.

"A Windows operating system always has one currently active Windows code
page. All ANSI versions of API functions use the currently active code
page." https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/desktop/dd317752%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

> 
> It doesn't matter if UTF-8 postdated Windows NT or not; which BTW
> isn't true, either:
> 
> "Thompson's design was outlined on September 2, 1992, on a placemat in
> a New Jersey diner with Rob Pike. In the following days, Pike and
> Thompson implemented it and updated Plan 9 to use it throughout, and
> then communicated their success back to X/Open.[7]
> 
> UTF-8 was first officially presented at the USENIX conference in San
> Diego, from January 25 to 29, 1993."
> 
> Windows NT was released 26. Juli 1993.

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2044 didn't get ratified by the IETF until
October 1996. It mentions ISO/IEC 10646-1:1993: "UTF-8 is described in
Annex R, adopted but not yet published." UTF-8 also made an appearance in
Unicode 1.1, but the documents date from late 1992, and were published in
1993. They aren't available online on the Unicode website.

It would not have been possible or advisable to change the design of
Windows NT between January and July 1993 based on a USENIX paper, or a
Unicode standard published in 1993; both would have been well beyond the
end of the design phase of Windows NT.

> 

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RfD: 1 chars = 1 anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-08 17:34 +0000
  Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-06-08 10:59 -0700
    Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-08 19:57 +0100
      Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 Michael Barry <barrym95838@yahoo.com> - 2015-06-08 16:35 -0700
        Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-09 06:18 +0000
      Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-09 23:35 +0200
        Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-09 23:49 +0100
          Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-10 01:41 +0200
            Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-10 02:03 +0100
              Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-10 12:22 +0000
                Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2015-06-11 14:50 +0100
              Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-10 14:46 +0200
    Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-06-09 07:09 +0000
      Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 Stefan Mauerhofer <smauerhofer@androsoft.ch> - 2015-06-09 01:52 -0700
      Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-06-09 23:29 +0200
      Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2015-06-21 12:46 -0400
  Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-06-09 12:06 +0200
    Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-06-09 03:40 -0700
      Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-06-09 12:45 +0200
        Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-06-09 07:17 -0400
          Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 Matthias Koch <matthias.koch@hot.uni-hannover.de> - 2015-06-09 14:30 +0200
      Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-06-09 12:50 -0800
        Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-06-21 17:14 +1000
          Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-06-20 21:46 -1000
            Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-06-23 15:05 +1000
              Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-06-22 19:42 -1000
                Re: RfD: 1 chars = 1 "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2015-06-27 14:08 +1000

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